My current plan RE: Election 2016 (or flip me!)

[Joe the Revelator]

Last edited Wed Jun 8, 2016, 09:50 PM - Edit history (1)

I've been a big voice for going third party and NEVER HILLARY. However, I've done some soul searching over the last 24 hours.

My current plan is, I'm giving Hillary a clean slate. Erasing EVERYTHING I know about her. I want to see if she pivots left or right in the GE.



It's time to flip me Hillary. Court me. Love me. Treat me like I'm Donna Brazile. Wine me, dine me, or at least throw me some bones on things I care about. Progressive things. Awesome things that democrats should be for to begin with.

Help me help you. Make we want to vote for you. Please.

[GoneFishin]

1. And if she tells you whatever you want to hear, that's good enough, huh? Good luck with that. nt

[Joe the Revelator]

9. Clean slate! She has a pivot point right now...

she can either choose to go after disaffected republicans or the 45% of her party who's looking for some progressive moves. It's really all up to her now. Independents were behind Bernie, there is a huge chunk of votes out there if she goes left.

We'll see what she does in the coming weeks.

[pengu]

51. Why would you believe her?

She'd just flip again after she's elected.

[CorporatistNation]

23. Whatever She Says, will change with the wind. She has proven over the decades that she

has provided the public with no basis for trusting her... "Don't Ask Me" No Questions... What a Great Song!

e.g., MSNBC To the deniers... Watch THIS Video... It is not comforting to think that she may well be the Democratic Nominee...

Hillary really betrayed Andrea Mitchell... The entire context of this report was of a solemn nature... A Funeral so to speak...

Andrea Mitchell "I do not see this report as ...ANYTHING BUT... DEVASTATING!"

Chuck Todd "After this I don't think that she could get confirmed for Attorney General!"

Lots of FIBBING by Hillary here.. for more than a year!

[Demsrule86]

27. Yeah and electing a racist piece of crap like Trump is better.

You should vote for Hill if no other reason than the courts...Roe V Wade, Gay marriage, healthcare...you think any of that could survive five courts picks...you want to have a revolution, make sure Trump does not get in because your movement is toast if he does.

[GoneFishin]

44. I voted for Bernie. If you voted for Hillary, a weaker candidate then Trumps rise to power is on you

[Demsrule86]

46. No it is on you and your candidate

Who will go down in history as an also ran spoiler who destroyed all progressive policies...just like the Nader spoilers gave us Bush.

[highprincipleswork]

2. That would be so welcome.

[hrmjustin]

3. I am glad you are giving her a chance.

[Joe the Revelator]

11. If she moves left instead of right it could be a great redemption story.

[MineralMan]

4. One vote. You decide.

I already have. I'm going to be busy. You decide.

[Joe the Revelator]

7. I'm undecided. Come get me Hillary!

That's what politicians are supposed to do. This is what voters are supposed to do.

[djean111]

5. And you would believe her? Wow.

You did make me laugh, though - your OP made me think of Hillary as Christopher Walken's The Continental on SNL.

[Joe the Revelator]

8. ;)

[MFM008]

6. Here

For a start...

[Joe the Revelator]

10. The way to my heart for sure.

[morningfog]

12. The formal outreach to repub voters begins next.

She already made her pivot left, it's back to center and right now.

[Joe the Revelator]

13. And if that's the case her feet should be held to the fire

What a chance! Move left and you get all the Bernie voters plus a majority of independents. This is so easy. Just do it Hillary.

[morningfog]

17. I agree, but she won't. 11 million+ at the ready.

On the repub side, nothing for certain. But that is where she is going. There was a headline today about her formal republican outreach effort set to begin.

I didn't read anything about a formal progressive outreach.

[Joe the Revelator]

18. That's the thing about clean slates, they can dirty real quickly.

We will see which way she goes. This may be a very short experiment on my part.

[VulgarPoet]

49. Put it this way: I tried the whole "peace and unity" horseshite back in March.

You have no idea how quickly that slate dirtied itself again. By the end of that day, I already had fifty people back on ignore.

[fleabiscuit]

38. The vast majority of 'independents' identify with a party, and vote that way.

If you put any stock into 538.

I'll recycle an earlier statement; To win the Whitehouse the candidate has to become much more centric to get the extra 35+ million more votes than what was cast in the recent primary. For BOTH candidates.

Do what ever makes your day I guess.

[jcgoldie]

14. why would she pivot left for the general election?

that doesnt even make sense

[Joe the Revelator]

16. Because there are a ton of voters over here, that are looking for a reason to vote

Why leave them on the table?

[jcgoldie]

19. You vote if you give a fuck

otherwise don't.

[Joe the Revelator]

20. Ok, great point...

...she needs to give me a reason to give a fuck. That's the job of a politician.

[jcgoldie]

21. ok

2 supreme court justices, roe v wade, and donald trump. what else you need?

[Joe the Revelator]

24. You're giving me a reason to vote for anyone who isn't Trump.

I'm looking and giving Hillary a chance me make we want to vote for her.

[jcgoldie]

25. Well since noone else can win and she's the nominee

I don't really see the difference.

[Joe the Revelator]

26. The problem is, you really aren't seeing my point.

[jcgoldie]

28. No the problem is

You don't see that the choice is really quite simple. Politics is messy and we don't always get our way, but the choices we make really make a difference.

[Lizzie Poppet]

37. You'll eat your shit sandwich and like it, young man!

[Recursion]

36. Not really; there just aren't enough liberal voters for that to be a winning play

And at any rate there are vanishingly few voters more liberal than Clinton is already (even if some of the sanctimonious wrongly think they are).

25% of Americans call themselves liberal, as opposed to 40% calling themselves conservative and 35% moderate.

If you crosstab people's ideological and partisan self-identification, it breaks down to this:

Liberal Dems: 11%
Moderate Dems: 13%
Conservative Dems: 8%
Liberal Indies: 5%
Moderate Indies: 14%
Conservative Indies: 13%
Liberal GOP: 1%
Moderate GOP: 8%
Conservative GOP: 28%

(Note that partisan self-identification is different from partisan registration, and generally higher.)

Self-identified conservative Republicans are the largest bloc in the country, representing nearly a third of the population.

The biggest ideological group among Democrats are the moderates. If liberal Democrats were to increase their numbers to, roughly, where the moderate independents are, the party wouldn't feel as obligated to chase those moderate independents to make up for the huge bloc represented by conservative Republicans (and to a large extent there's a one-for-one trade-off here: policies and rhetoric that moderate independents like repel liberal Democrats, and policies and rhetoric that liberal Democrats like repel moderate indies; obviously it's not exactly zero sum, but it's surprisingly close to it at times).

[Joe the Revelator]

39. Bernie was able to draw liberal and moderate indies

Conservative GOP is already going Trump. So she can either be a putz, tact right, and pick up a possible 22% of available conservatives or pick up 30% of liberal dems and most indies.

[lovemydog]

15. I think it's great that you have an open mind

and you're starting with a clean slate.

Here's where she stands on the issues:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

[Todays_Illusion]

22. I think the signals and those Republican endorsements say Hillary will tilt sharply right. nt

[larkrake]

29. good luck with that

[1StrongBlackMan]

30. This is a good thread, as I suspect some posters are being more honest than others.

[jamese777]

31. What any president can do in office

is dependent on who controls each House of Congress and who is on the Supreme Court. Obama's policy agenda has been largely stymied by John Boehner/Paul Ryan & Mitch McConnell along with John Roberts, Antonin Scalia (RIP), Clarence Thomas, Anthony Kennedy and Samuel Alito.

[Joe the Revelator]

32. I'm already voting dem down ticket. I'm decided there.

[WhiteTara]

34. Just my thought

[Joe the Revelator]

35. I would never skip voting. I'll be voting for someone...

not Trump, and I'm giving Hillary the chance to prove she's worth my vote.

[MyNameGoesHere]

40. I've read a lot of your posts

and I think it is best for you and the Democratic party to part ways. I just don't think we are on the same path. I wish you luck in your new endeavors!

[Joe the Revelator]

41. Geez, thank god you're not in charge of Hillary's outreach.

[MyNameGoesHere]

42. No I am not

But you laid it at everyone's feet and you got my opinion. It was fair.

[Joe the Revelator]

43. I'm not bothered by your post.

At all. Just thought it was funny. Cheers.

[MyNameGoesHere]

45. I wasn't trying to be funny or mean

Sometimes it's just better to follow your heart. Good luck

[LexVegas]

47. Do what you have to do. Just swallow your pride on the 16th or move on. nt

[VulgarPoet]

48. What you hope will happen is a high-class courtship.

What'll happen is a five minute Tinder-arranged pump and dump that will inevitably leave you feeling completely dissatisfied.

[Ken Burch]

50. "Treat me like I'm Donna Brazile"?

Do I even want to know what that means?