THIS is why I believe that more provisional ballots should go to Bernie

[J_J_]

I have read so many comments about Bernie supporters having registration changed, given provisional ballots inappropriately that it seems like Bernie voters were targeted.

I have yet to read of any Hillary voters that were disinfranchised.

These are just an example
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/4ngn91/as_california_admits_2_million_ballots_remain/


[–]quantum_yogi 8 points 12 hours ago

I and several people I know all followed the rules and registered correctly in a timely manner only to find on the day that we had been switched to permanent vote by mail. Except surprise! None of us were mailed ballots, so at the polls we were forced to use provisional ballots.

Speaking with the poll worker, this was apparently already a common occurrence at my polling station at 9am! After reading reports online I found this happened all over the state and in seemingly large numbers.

Believe me, we knew what to do. But through either malfeasance or incompetence our votes were suppressed, hopefully for only the time being, but it looks like there's already been many that were tossed out.


powP0Wpow
The thing is Clinton supporters just don't believe that suppression happened because big surprise it didn't happened to them. Where for Bernie supporters it either happened to them personally or they know someone it happened to.

This apathy from Clinton supporters is another reason that affected Sander supports feel no obligation to unify because they feel betrayed. And further blaming the whole shebang on "laziness" is just being disingenuous.

Adding to the fact Clinton has been caught lying numerous times about her political actions, its easy to see that Sander supporters feel they are the victims of her political power and that she has herself suppressed votes and voter turnout. Thinking about Mass, AZ, NV, and now CA, yeah its really too many times for one primary season. How many times is reasonable? None.

----------

My fiance got a number to call with her provisional ballot, in the words of the poll person "call in a week or so, put in that number, and see if your vote got counted."

Edit: for anyone confused, she registered way ahead of time, as no party. They mailed her a ballot without presidential primary candidates (without her registering as VBM). She surrendered the mail ballot at the polling place and asked for the dem crossover. It said on the wall non party will be eligible to receive 3 different party ballots this year, and would be able to request only one of those ballots. She requested a dem ballot 3 separate times and received a ballot that said provisional, which she put in an envelope labeled provisional. I'm wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have their shit together at the polling place as this is the same church I voted at during prop 8, which had a yes on prop 8 poster on the door to the polling place.

[still_one]

1. California counts all ballots, including provisional no matter what the margin

Q: Are vote-by-mail and provisional ballots always counted – even in "landslide" elections?
A: Yes, every valid ballot returned to county elections officials by 8:00 p.m. on election day is counted in every election, regardless of the ballot type or the margin in any particular contest.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/administration/news-releases-and-advisories/2014-news-releases-and-advisories/db14-090/

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/provisional-voting/

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-status/

Of the ballots that need to be counted, about 2/3 of those are vote-by mail ballots. This was reported by Alex Padilla. Vote by mail favors Hillary incidentally.

[Tarc]

2. Of course we should count all votes, but

You do realize that none of this will deliver California or the nomination to Bernie, right?

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. I understand that. Given that the contest is now settled...

Can we now count on Hillary supporters joining with Bernie supporters and others to insist that everything that can be done to minimize "voting irregularities" in this country is done, and that more democratic reforms to how we decide on candidates are initiated?

[Tarc]

7. There's only 2 things I really want to see done

1, Prevent the bullshit in Arizona, where the GOP slashed the polling places on purpose.

2, Get rid of caucuses and open primaries. Have closed primaries with a reasonable time frame (1-2 weeks) to register, or same-day registration.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. My related list is longer than yours.

I am not confident we have enough security for electronic voting. I think the Democrats Super Delegate system needs a radical revision. I agree about caucuses and same day registration. New protections are needed to prevent registration flipping whereby people try to vote and are told their party enrollment status has been changed. I disagree about getting rid of open primaries because non aligned voters are not the largest voting bloc in America and they end up disenfranchised because a two party system still determines who feasibly can be elected President. However I would support a provision that restricts voters being able to shift their registration to independent within 60 days of a primary, to cut down on partisan abuses of the system.

[99th_Monkey]

18. hmm .. "non aligned voters are not the largest voting bloc in America" actually ..

Independents constitute 45% of the electorate.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

But I still agree with you that open primaries are preferable.

[LiberalFighter]

22. I'm not sure if for electronic you mean the voting machines or internet.

Either way I would agree. The voting machines need an third party to check the source code. If source code can't be provided and reviewed then they should not be allowed. Internet voting I'm not sure what all would be necessary to make it secure. It would give more of an advantage to households that have access to the internet and feel comfortable using a computer or mobile device. They would have a higher turnout in voting. If it was implemented it would need to have several steps with security.

I would definitely support same-day voter registration in every state. At least for general elections unless a primary includes regular elections that involves a final outcome. I would rather that on-line voter registration was available in every state. And in addition to motor vehicle branches require public libraries include it as part of their service.

The unpledged delegates in my opinion should remain as I agree with the original premises for them. It includes more grassroots activists that are pledged delegates. If unpledged delegates were eliminated it would lead to party leaders, major activists, and congressional members running for spots at the pledged delegate level. The percentage of unpledged delegates would increase if they replaced spots intended for the grassroots activist delegates.

Without the unpledged delegates the convention loses flexibility to respond to changing circumstances and when the voters have not provided a clear mandate. Primaries take nearly 6 months to complete and a lot could happen. A John Edwards or George Wallace would be a disaster for the Party. But the unpledged delegates would consider the information about the candidates and the support of the candidates.

Another reason for including them is the necessity for unpledged delegates to be part of the process. Campaigns lose when key individuals are not part of the campaign. They are individuals that are likely to be in the know about what is happening with the campaigns.

Years ago 38% of delegates were of the unpledged type. That was reduced to its current nearly 15% level. I'm assuming it was a combination of reduction of delegates and moving some of the unpledged to pledged level. Most likely big city or other top level party leaders.

So overall the circumstances would have to be just right for the will of the people to be overturned. But then again, people might be demanding a change from what they initially supported because of the circumstances that occurred after they voted.

[Surya Gayatri]

16. ^^^AMEN to this!^^^

[Florencenj2point0]

32. Can we count on all bernie supporters to help us get rid of caucuses,

Since we now know all ballots are counted in CA?

[Tom Rinaldo]

36. I never talk in "all" terms

I don't expect "all" Clinton supporters to want the same things either. But I am opposed to caucuses. If I lived in a state that used them I would work against that where I live. It is a state decision, and not completely up to the Democratic Party alone, primaries are more expensive than caucuses and are paid for by state governments. But yes I advocate for their replacement by primaries along with the other reforms. For what it's worth, Obama wouldn't be President today were it not for caucuses.

[Jennylynn]

26. Who's doing the counting? Nt

[Tarc]

27. Um...

http://www.sos.ca.gov/

[CrowCityDem]

3. Hillary voters had less problems, because they were already Democrats.

[beachbum bob]

8. most of hillary supporters have voted more than once in their lifetime and know

their state's primary rules....one main element that sank the sanders campaign was pretty much the incompetency to research each state's primary rules and communicating the rules to his supporters.....terrible....and then to scream the system is rigged because they were incompetent in finding and communicating....terrible

[J_J_]

12. "And further blaming the whole shebang on "laziness" is just being disingenuous"

Do you guys even read these Ops? Your comments have already been covered.

[Florencenj2point0]

33. yes, but it was laziness, on the part of the campaign mostly

but also some supporters, who could go to rallies, but not register or vote? What was that all about?

[J_J_]

10. you were mentioned in these comments

The thing is Clinton supporters just don't believe that suppression happened because big surprise it didn't happened to them

[CrowCityDem]

15. A lot of the 'suppression' was people mis-registering, or not knowing how.

That isn't actually suppression, and it is entirely the fault of the person who didn't know the rules.

The reason Clinton supporters don't throw a fit is that 1) we understand that no election goes off without something going wrong, and 2) it evens out in the end. Just like some Bernie supporters think they were penalized by rules making it complicated to register, the voters that were purged in NYC would have likely been Clinton voters, since she won those areas by huge margins.

[99th_Monkey]

19. Ahh .. there's nothing like blaming victims to ease a guilty conscience. n/t

[CrowCityDem]

21. If, for instance, you didn't know you needed to request a Dem ballot in CA, yes, it's your fault.

[Demsrule86]

28. If you don't follow the rules...how are you a victim?

I do what I have to do...this year...Kasich the terrible closed all but one polling place in my town...with very little parking...happening all over Ohio...so I have little patience with people crying voter suppression when they don't inform themselves of the rules. I have seen real voter suppression here...believe me what you experienced was an error - your or election people-mistake happen and it is not voter suppression...and there is a good chance your vote will be counted.

[Time for change]

37. This is what Republicans do

They suppress voters, and then blame the voters for allowing it to happen.

You really should consider changing your registration.

[CrowCityDem]

38. The CA board of elections not being mind readers isn't suppression.

Having to ask for a Democratic ballot, when you aren't a Democrat, isn't suppression.

Real suppression stops you from voting. Making sure you're getting the right ballot doesn't qualify, and insults people who suffer from real voting issues.

[Florencenj2point0]

34. Yes it did, it happens to democrats all over the south all the time

stop whining. The only people suppressed in AZ were Latino/Latina and we they were mostly Hillary supporters. It would have been the same in CA.

[Squinch]

4. thanks for letting us know your thoughts

[bravenak]

6. This is beyond sad at this point

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. ...

[J_J_]

11. you were mentioned in these comments

"This apathy from Clinton supporters is another reason that affected Sander supports feel no obligation to unify because they feel betrayed."

[Adrahil]

17. And the repeated claims by Sandernistas that there must be cheating...

Anytime Bernie loses undermines their claims.

[Time for change]

14. This needs all the publicity it can get

There is a massive amount of evidence of voter suppression in the CA primary.

More evidence is being gathered every day.

This cannot be ignored if we are ever going to have fair elections in our country.

[Lord Magus]

20. "Should"? The provisional ballots go to whoever they voted for.

And they will all be counted, so long as the ballots were cast by eligible voters.

[tandem5]

23. All those that had specifically wanted to vote for Sanders ahead of time

why go through all the contortions of getting a Democratic ballot as unaffiliated, no party preference, or independent in a semi-open/closed primary? Is it really so terrible to have a "D" next to your name temporarily?

[ContinentalOp]

24. Why is it that I know more about NPP rules than people who are registered that way?

Your last paragraph describes exactly how it's supposed to work. If you get a vote by mail ballot and then go vote in person they give you a provisional ballot. It doesn't really matter since they count all of those provisional ballots anyway.

By the way here's the latest updated list as of yesterday http://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/statewide-elections/2016-primary/unprocessed-ballots-report.pdf

Note that there are only 700k uncounted provisional ballots but 1.6 million uncounted vote by mail ballots. Also note that the vast majority of these are in major cities which Clinton won handily.

The votes will all be counted, but it's not going to change anything.

[Retrograde]

25. Because you vote more than once every four years?

You take the time to read the voter information the state sends?

I've been a NPP voter coming up on 30 years - from back in the days when it was called Decline to State - and I've voted in every election I was eligible for - even the school board elections that I don't have a direct stake in. Since California has been following the current process since early this century and I vote in every election it's old hat by now, and now that I vote exclusively by mail it couldn't be easier.

And because I was registered well in advance of primary day, all I had to do to get a Democratic presidential primary ballot was to return the handy postcard the county registrar sent me back in March.

One of the cases the OP cites happened to me once: election day was approaching and I didn't have my ballot. Rather than going on the web and posting about being disenfranchised, though, I emailed the county registrar, explained the situation, got a reply within a day and a replacement ballot shortly thereafter.

Since California now has open primaries for offices other than president (and party offices if you want to get nitpicky) casual voters will forget about all the NPP rules until 2020 - when there will be a new batch of people complaining.

[oberliner]

29. A super easy way to avoid this problem would be to have registered as a Democrat

I don't understand why this is so complicated.

Register as a Democrat, and you get to vote in the Democratic primary.

Register as a Republican, and you get to vote in the Republican primary.

[Matt_R]

30. Or register as an Independant becasue both parties are owned by....

Corporate America. lock stock and barrel. Just in case you missed the memo.

[oberliner]

31. Yes, you could do that

And choose not to vote in either primary.

[Matt_R]

40. I registered as a Democrat at 18. Never registered as another party.

But I can understand why some would. After this primary I will still be a Democrat.

Oh and thanks for kicking out the 40% of progressives that just are not registered Democrat, we thank you for that. Maybe we will start our own party this year since this one has the best conservative running against Trump, hahaha

[Florencenj2point0]

35. I registered as a republican a few years ago

to try and unseat my neighbor from his cushy job as roads supervisor in a small republican town. I was one of two democrats living there. There was a young man we wanted to run and defeat him, so I registered as a republican and it didn't hurt at all.
If you want to vote in the Democratic Party primary, register as a democrat.
I donate my money, time and effort to my party. If you can't do that and bernie can't do that why the fuck should I support him OR you?

[Matt_R]

39. WOW I've been registered as a Democrat all my life.

but I never had anyone admit to registering for a crossover vote. That seems like a foolish plan.