Bernie shouldn't concede because Clinton has not won enough pledged delegates to clinch nomination

[imagine2015]

We won't know who the Democratic Party delegates will select to be their presidential candidate until they vote at the convention.

712 super delegates are unpledged and can vote for any candidate at the convention no matter whom they might have indicated a preference for prior to the convention.




The Pledged Delegate Total
June 13, 2016

2,383 Needed To Win Nomination

Hillary Clinton 2,203

Bernie Sanders 1,828

[Cali_Democrat]

1. Bernie's only hope is to have the superdelegates overturn the will of the people.

That's hilarious, especially when Bernie and his supporters were previously railing against superdelegates.

Now they want the superdelegates to come to Bernie's rescue and overturn the will of the people.

[imagine2015]

65. The Democratic Party decided on super delegates to prevent a liberal from being nominated or ......

to prevent a non-liberal candidate (like Clinton) from leading an electoral disaster in November.

H. Clinton just has little or nothing positive going for her against Trump should she be nominated.

Most people don't like or trust her, including me and most Democrats and independents.

Read the history of the Democratic Party on the matter of super delegates.

You don't seem to be very well informed regarding the history of this political party.

I think you need to seriously study this issue and not just depend on little political handouts and simple talking points for your information and guidance.

[B Calm]

89. Indiana voted for Bernie, but every Indiana superdelegate is voting for Hillary. How is that

not overturning the will of the people?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Democratic_Party_superdelegates,_2016

[boston bean]

91. I guess it's the same thing that happened to Hillary in 2008 in my own state.

Where Ted Kennedy and John Kerry, two very well known and influential senators, came out for Obama prior to our primary.

[B Calm]

92. So superdelegates have been overturning the will of the people for Hillary's benefit for some time

now.

[boston bean]

93. I meant Obama. now fixed.

[B Calm]

94. Did you think in 2008 that the Massachusetts superdelegates were overturning the will of the people?

[boston bean]

95. I was pissed at them. I don't know if I would call it over turning the will of the people, though.

[B Calm]

96. Well if Massachusetts voted for Hillary and if the majority or all of superdelegates voted

for Obama, that is overturning the will of the people in my opinion. This is happening in every state that Bernie won.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Democratic_Party_superdelegates,_2016

[boston bean]

97. And even if they all did as you suggest, he would still be losing. Look at the entirety of reality.

[B Calm]

99. So do you think superdelegates are undemocratic?

Bernie has every right to overturn their votes.

[boston bean]

101. If they are used to change the results of the primaries and caucuses??

I would find that to be an untenable situation.

[B Calm]

102. Then we are in agreement!

[boston bean]

103. Don't think so. Since I believe you are arguing superdelegates should

overturn the result of the primaries and caucuses and give it to Bernie.

[B Calm]

104. I never said they should overturn the results of the primary. Where did you get that?

I started out by pointing to the state of Indiana and how they voted for Bernie, but every superdelegate is voting for the Hillary.

[boston bean]

105. That is not overturning the results of the primaries and caucuses. Since ther person with the most

delegates and votes is who they are supporting.

Enough of this merry go round. Have a good day.

[B Calm]

106. The fix is in.

[Demsrule86]

98. When one candidate has clearly won

The supers vote for the winner. Bernie has lost and will not be president. Time to accept that. I think he will concede before the convention ....if I am wrong than his career is over.

[B Calm]

100. The superdelegates were pledging their votes before the first vote was cast in Iowa. They

didn't wait for the people in their states to select the winner.

[Demsrule86]

114. so what?

It was true in 2008 only more so. And Obama was chosen by the voters. The Clinton delegates switched...it is meaningless to worry about where supers are in the beginning. Had Sanders gotten the most delegates as Obama did, he would have won. But Sanders was way behind. Clinton was less than 99 votes behind Obama. Sanders lost and the supers have no reason to switch to him. They always go with the winner of the pledged delegates. It has been over since March. Sanders should have resigned then. He does no good by staying in a race that was lost months ago.

[B Calm]

116. Overturning the will of the people in a state is not democratic. Superdelegates

need to be done away with period! Before the first vote was cast in Iowa over 500 superdelegates gave Hillary an unfare advantage and announced they supported Hillary. But, when the superdelegates go against the voters in their state, that is overturning the will of the people. Bernie has every right to get them to flip their allegiance from Hillary to him.

[Demsrule86]

120. The Supers switch to the voter with the most delegates as always.

Bernie needs no delegates-he lost...his name should not even be put in nomination...hopefully, he concedes before the convention or he becomes a laughing stock.

[Cali_Democrat]

130. Hillary won more populated states like New York, California, Texas, and Florida

If we use your method, where the superdelegates go to the winner of the state, Hillary still wins a majority of superdelegates.

Do you object to Alan Grayson supporting Hillary?

[davidlynch]

2. Isn't RealClear Politics a RUSSIAN Website...

[TwilightZone]

16. Real Clear Politics isn't the problem.

The interpretation of their data is the problem.

[Lil Missy]

3. Superdelegates count too. She's the presumptive nominee, because we DO know who they will select.

HRC also has millions more votes.

It's past time to get beyond the delusions.

On Edit - after a check of your ever growing Transparency page, I think you just like to stir shit.

[geek tragedy]

4. .

[politicaljunkie41910]

7. I think imagine2015 must have been on vacation last week when this was litigated to death.

[LiberalFighter]

14. No. S/He wasn't on vacation. Somewhere else that is not in reality.

[eastwestdem]

5. Agreed, he should stay in as fodder for the late night comedians. It has been great! nt

[senz]

6. Neither candidate has won the nomination. It is undecided.

As of now, without California fully counted, and with all the strange "irregularities" that favored Hillary, she is ahead by 368 delegates.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/

We know some of the SDs are corporate lobbyists, some even have connections to the Clinton Foundation, but most are probably sincere Democrats who want to win the GE.

Bernie stands a better chance to win the GE.

• He polls far better against Trump.
  
  
• His favorability polling is massively better than Hillary's and he appeals across a broad spectrum of voters, including independents and Republicans, which she does not.
  
  
• He does not have an FBI investigation with the possibility of an indictment. We know that, given the corrupt nature of the current power structure, Hillary could beat the charge (if there is one), but it looks very bad to the voting public.

So he stands a decent chance of persuading the SDs. Given what is at stake for this country, it is worth a try.

[TwilightZone]

12. Undecided? Sorry, but that isn't remotely true in any sense of the word.

[Lord Magus]

24. There were no "strange irregularities" at all. -nt-

[senz]

25. It's under investigation. Some things are too serious to hide.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280212207

[TwilightZone]

28. Nonsense based on self-selected exit poll data from only a small part of CA.

That's not how it works. Sorry.

[senz]

38. Great! Then you don't mind if the investigations continue?

Hey, I'm proud of you, TwilightZone.

[Lord Magus]

42. To continue, investigations would first have to begin.

Some kook filing a blatantly frivolous lawsuit is not the same thing as an investigation.

[TwilightZone]

44. There is no investigation.

"5000 private exit poll ballots we collected in Alameda, Contra Costa and Santa Clara counties"

They're going to be laughed out of court, assuming that the oft-delayed "lawsuit" ever makes it to one.

[Melissa G]

52. Read before you comment. The irregularities are all over the country.

Unfortunately this year, substantial exit poll differences have been noted in the US primary. In this year’s primary, the Red Shift appears to have become the “Clinton Shift”. See the data below.





more...
http://trustvote.org/

[Lord Magus]

29. Tinfoil hat lawsuits are not the same thing as "under investigation."

This on the same level as the Orly Taitz lawsuits about President Obama's birth certificate.

[senz]

32. Good, good. Let's just open it ALL up for investigation.

After all, there's nothing to hide, is there?

[musicblind]

78. No, there isn't anything to hide.

These individuals are welcome to "investigate" all they want. We all know they will find nothing because there is nothing to find. Deep down in your heart of hearts... you know that too.

So yes, let them investigate. But call it what it is: showboating.

[senz]

79. Great, then she'll release her speech transcripts? No more secrecy?

That would be a very good thing.

[musicblind]

81. Way to COMPLETELY change the topic.

You were talking about voter fraud and if she had nothing to hide then others shouldn't care about an investigation.

When called on it, you do a complete 180 and ask about transcripts?

And honestly, I don't think there is anything to hide in the transcripts. She probably said nice things about bankers. Oh-nos, what a horrible person!

If you honestly think she said, "Oh yeah, and once I'm elected I'm gonna screw the 99% and give all their money to you," then you're crazy. A lot of the people she spoke to during her speaking tours WERE the 99%.

Her speaking fees are not out of line compared to others: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-fight-over-hillary-clintons-speaking-fees-is-ridiculous/2016/02/05/ca4d8952-cc4e-11e5-ae11-57b6aeab993f_story.html

The only reason you want the transcripts is that you want to pick them apart and find something, anything, where she spoke nice about some guy who had something to do with a bank.

And you know full well that releasing them will make them fodder for Trump who will have NO ISSUE lying about them.

But yeah, I she probably should release them because most people are not going to find anything shocking about them.

[senz]

83. Glad you have so much faith in your candidate.

Everyone needs something to believe in.

[leftynyc]

107. Tick tock

That's right - get it all out of your system. This crap will not be tolerated soon enough.

[mythology]

117. Can we put cameras in your bathroom?

I mean if you have nothing to hide, you wouldn't object to that would you? Or how about yet another birther lawsuit. If Obama has nothing to hide.

Investigating incompetent conspiracy theories is a waste of time and money.

[senz]

122. The American people have a right to know the truth about presidential candidates.

[chillfactor]

30. do you live in a bubble?

2 more days....if you post your nonsense then, it will be blocked. Good grief...give it up already!

[senz]

35. Two more days until truth is squashed out on one website?

Truth might sneak up and bite somebody big on the rear.

Ya never know...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. You mistake paranoia and conspiracy for the truth. Nt

[senz]

51. Ah, so unpleasant news about Hillary isn't truth?

Well of course not, how could it be?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

55. It's not news. It's kooky conspiracy nonsense

[senz]

59. So what is the FBI investigating? Kooky stuff?

Guess no one told them that Hillary can do no wrong.

[Ned_Devine]

67. The Bureau has their "Division For Kooky Stuff" on this case. Duh!

[840high]

72. lol

[Number23]

85. You have pivoted so much in this thread I'm surprised your fingers aren't in knots

Every single time someone tries to tell you how wrong and ridiculous your "Clinton doesn't have enough delegates" idiocy is, you try to change the subject.

Upthread you immediately pivoted to Clinton's transcripts and right here you're trying to change it to the FBI investigation. Your own behavior speaks to the fact that you clearly understand that your rantings have no basis in truth or reality. You can't even put up the pretence of a logical, well executed attempt at criticism, it's obvious you are someone who is clearly just trying to bait and goad the supporters of the winning candidate. And It's pretty sad.

[DrDan]

8. we know . . .

[Buzz cook]

9. Bad math.

I can't believe I have to do this again.

2393 is half (plus 1.5) of all delegates both pledged and super. Clinton has more than that.

2026 is half (plus 1) of pledged delegates alone. Clinton has more pledged delegates than that.

So to recap Clinton has more than half of all delegates, more than half of all pledged delegates, and more than half of all super delegates.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_delegate_count.html

Do the math yourself.

[okasha]

15. And her actual lead is close to 1000 delegates.

The dead-enders keep trying to move the goal posts.

This is so over.

[tritsofme]

10. Again, you are so brilliant! We will most definitely not have a nominee until one is nominated.

It is by definition, impossible. What an incredible revelation! We did not have a nominee in 2012 until the convention either, and even then it took them until the 3rd or 4th night!!! It was a real nail-biter, but if you remember, Obama snook through!

[Maru Kitteh]

11. oh my.

[k8conant]

33. Be as dismissive as you want

and I will be in Philly voting for Bernie.

[Maru Kitteh]

50. Well . . .

Good for you

[Bleacher Creature]

13. This crap, AGAIN??

How many times can the same flawed argument be posted here?

[onenote]

17. I know. And isn't it crazy that presidential candidates concede before the electoral college votes?

How ridiculous is that?

[BobbyDrake]

18. This is just sad. So very, very sad.

[eastwestdem]

48. Yes it is! nt

[brooklynite]

19. Okay, I'll bite...tell us the compelling argument that will change the minds of the Superdelegates..

[Tarc]

20. One last gasp before the curtain call, eh?

This has long been a settled argument; Hillary is the nominee, the supers vote for the pledged delegate winner, period.

[Starry Messenger]

21. Come out of the trees. It's over.

[jcgoldie]

22. wake up man

It's June. This stupid argument was tired in April.

[Lord Magus]

23. Should Hillary have not conceded in 08?

Obama had 1,828½ pledged delegates after the last primaries. 2,118 were needed to win. Hillary had 1,726½. She trailed by only 102 pledged delegates, compared to Bernie now trailing by 375.

[k8conant]

36. No, she shouldn't have (unless she wanted to)

and no, Bernie shouldn't.

[senz]

45. I wonder why they're so desperate for Bernie to concede?

If she's "won," then they have nothing to fear, right?

They should relax and let the process play itself out.

[AgadorSparticus]

75. No one is desperate when they have won. This is tedious and the longer it

Is drawn out, the more it takes away from Bernie's movement. He needs to end it PDQ.

[musicblind]

80. No. Because, as someone who voted for Bernie,

I'd like to see him go out with dignity.

Also, dragging this out after the results are clear, hurts the nominee's chance to defeat Trump in the general.

Since the beginning of even CNN, every democratic nominee was called the presumptive nominee when one side won the majority of delegates (including superdelegates) so why is this ONE case so different?

[senz]

82. CNN is not the beginning of time.

The 2016 Democratic primary rules state that the nominee will be the one who has won 2383 delegates.

Neither candidate has 2383 delegates. The SDs don't vote until July 25.

Don't worry about Bernie's dignity. He is, to those of us who have observed him for a while, an amazingly fine, courageous, heroic human being. The dirty politics that have been played on him over the course of this campaign cannot get near his dignity.

[leftynyc]

110. The only desperation I see is YOURS

The process HAS played out - Hillary is FAR ahead in delegates (pledged and otherwise). Now stop embarrassing yourself this way. Or not - in 2 days it wont matter.

[senz]

126. Relax, neither candidate has reached 2383 candidates.

Hillary has 2,178 pledged delegates won.

Bernie has 1,810 pledged delegates won.

She is ahead by 368 delegates, although California has not been counted yet.

The nomination won't be decided until either the SDs vote or Bernie prematurely concedes.

Relax and let the process play out by the rules.

[leftynyc]

127. Yawn

You're boring me now. It's over. You want to pretend it's not, that's entirely your problem. Tick tock.

[rjsquirrel]

26. Two more days

This is really hilarious.

Bernie could still win! Somehow!

[senz]

77. lol, you think this is about DU?

Sorry, the convention is six weeks away.

[chillfactor]

27. Hillary has the necessary backing to be the nominee..

Have you been living in a bubble?

[itsrobert]

31. Where's the excedrin migraine? Extra Strength?

[k8conant]

37. White man's angst???

[k8conant]

41. The man in the video.

[itsrobert]

43. Ok, I thought you were referring to Bernie n/t

thanks

[jamese777]

34. The Complete Numbers To Date

Hillary Clinton: 16,198,428 votes (55.6%)
Bernie Sanders: 12,440,799 votes (42.7%)

Clinton over Sanders by 3,757,629 votes.

Hillary Clinton: 2,202 pledged delegates
Bernie Sanders: 1,829 pledged delegates

Clinton over Sanders by 373 pledged delegates

Hillary Clinton: 545 Unpledged delegates who say they will vote for Clinton
Bernie Sanders: 47 Unpledged delegates who say they will vote for Sanders

Clinton over Sanders by 548 Unpledged delegates who have made their intentions known.

Hillary Clinton: 2,746 total delegates
Bernie Sanders: 1,876 total delegates

Clinton over Sanders by 873 total delegates

Clinton: 33 primaries & caucuses won
Sanders: 23 primaries & caucuses won

Clinton has 363 more delegates than is needed
Sanders still needs 507 delegates.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

[k8conant]

39. The rest of the complete numbers

Clinton has 1 FBI investigation outstanding.
Sanders has 0 FBI investigations outstanding.

[senz]

47. That, too, might count for something.

Ain't easy speaking truth to all this, k8.

[senz]

46. According to 538 dot com ...

Clinton 2,178 pledged delegates won

Sanders 1,810 pledged delegates won

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/

368 pledged delegate difference -- and California hasn't been counted yet.

Neither candidate has 2383 delegates. Neither.

It won't be decided until the convention.

Try to live with that fact.

[Maru Kitteh]

53. Bookmarking.

[senz]

60. Bookmark to your heart's content.

Like it matters.

[TwilightZone]

56. Did you miss this? From your link:

"Clinton 108% of target."

If you're going to link somewhere, you should probably make sure it doesn't make the exact opposite point of the one you're trying to make. Your link is also several days old.

More from 538.com since then:

"here’s a short film recounting the trip-ups and triumphs of Clinton’s 2016 Democratic primary campaign, “A Year Of Clinton,” culminating in her historic nomination."

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-year-of-hillary-clinton/

"including during the 2016 campaign cycle, which saw Hillary Clinton become the first woman nominated for president by a major party."

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/from-1937-to-hillary-clinton-how-americans-have-felt-about-a-female-president/

[senz]

58. Doesn't change the rules, sorry.

[TwilightZone]

61. Yes, rules that have been the same since 1984.

Explain again how this year is any different than 2008?

Hint: it's not. Clinton has the majority of pledged delegates and the majority of total delegates, just as Obama had in 2008 when Sanders endorsed him before Clinton had even conceded. Same situation this year, except it's nowhere near as close.

But you know that.

[imagine2015]

64. Doesn't change the fact that Clinton doesn't have enough pledged delegates. Period.

[TwilightZone]

73. Math is hard, I know.

Repeating nonsense ad infinitum doesn't make it any more real.

[Number23]

86. There are only about five people on this board beating this idiotic "she doesn't have enough

delegates" drum and at least one of them has had the answer explained to them so many times that is now BEYOND clear that they are still spouting this crap in an effort to antagonize people.

2,026 pledged delegates needed to win, Clinton has 2,203.
2383 total delegates including superdelgates to win, Clinton has 2,780.

It's over. It's done. And has been for a long time. And make no mistake, the people who are pretending their hardest to not understand that are the ones that know it the best.

[TwilightZone]

121. Oh, I know.

I'm also reasonably certain that much of the obtuseness is intentional.

[senz]

66. The rules are hard and cold. Precedent is irrelevant.

A candidate must win 2,383 delegates at the national convention, in order to win the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.

"Democratic National Committee, 2016 Democratic National Convention Delegate/Alternate Allocation"

Hillary has 2,178 pledged delegates as of now. She does not have 2,383. She has not won the nomination.

It doesn't matter who did what in 2008. Does not matter.

Now why don't you just relax and a wait for the convention? Can't you live with even that much uncertainty?

Relax.

Relax.

Relax.

[leftynyc]

112. If you knew ANYTHING about the

law, you would already know that precedent is EVERYTHING. You're tiresome and your pivoting from one talking point to another is quite simply pathetic. Get it out of your system - you've got 2 more days to post this crap here.

[senz]

124. No, precedent in that sense applies to court decisions.

This is not a court decision. This is a primary election.

We're talking about following the rules set for the 2016 Democratic primary. Period.

Neither side has the requisite 2383 delegates. The vote of the SDs will decide the nomination -- unless Bernie decides to prematurely concede, which he does not have to do unless he wants to. His supporters don't want him to.

Be patient with the process.

[leftynyc]

125. No - not just court cases

It's for ALL LAW. The rules have been exactly the same since 1984. Your candidate decided holding rallies was more important than actually looking into primary rules for each state and it cost him HUGE. That's not Hillary's problem to fix. She's in the same exact position Pres Obama was in during 2008. Just stop embarrassing yourself this way. Or not - it wont matter in 2 days.

[jamese777]

69. No Problem

I have no issue at all with the unbound delegates and the bound delegates both voting at the convention. That's the way it has been since 1984 and that's just as it should be. I can live with that!

[imagine2015]

54. Clinton doesn't have enough pledged delegates to win the nomination.. CASE CLOSED.

It's just a hard political fact that some Clinton supporters can't deal with in their fantasy world.

This can't be seriously challenged or questioned using logic, facts and reason.

[JTFrog]

57. Yeah, it's Clinton supporters living in the fantasy world.

For fuck's sake.

CASE CLOSED alright. Sorry your guy lost.

Now it's time to beat Trump.

[imagine2015]

62. You expect Clinton to beat Trump?!!! Fantasy world indeed!

Bernie Sanders is your best chance to beat Trump.

Most people don't like Clinton while most people do like Bernie Sanders.

But, that doesn't matter to you.

It's her turn.

Tell that to the voters.

[JTFrog]

63. 2 more days.

Can't wait for this bullshit to get nipped in the bud.

[jamese777]

70. What about Bernie? Case Closed!

Does he have enough pledged delegates to win the nomination? It looks like Sanders supporters are also living in a fantasy world.

In modern day politics, a landslide victory is considered winning by 10 points. Hillary has beaten Bernie by 13 points in the popular vote and that's why Superdelegates will fill in the rest of the 181 delegate votes that Hillary needs rather than the 507 Superdelegates that Bernie would need. And Washington D.C. votes tomorrow.

[leftynyc]

113. The desperation of

Bernie fans is getting quite simply pathetic.

[Nye Bevan]

68. ***imagine2015 has encountered an error and is stuck in an infinite loop.***

Recommend shutting down and restarting.

[Lucinda]

123. LOL

[MFM008]

71. Rump is giving us lots of fodder

for discussion.
I will wait to see what happens in the next couple days
after he meets with HRC.

[LenaBaby61]

88. Totally agree with you...

I'll wait to see what HAPPENS after the meeting between Bernie and Hillary.

Then I'll be able to hopefully see WHERE Bernie's going

One thing's for sure: Hillary Clinton IS the presumptive nominee of the Democratic party for POTUS, and I couldn't be happier this time around .....

[Rex]

74. Follow your heart.

[RandySF]

76. .

[ucrdem]

84. He can stay in, but where's he going to stump?

After DC it's all over. There's no place left to campaign.

[TeamPooka]

87. There is no metric of this race where Bernie Sanders isn't the loser. Victories, delegates, popular

vote - that can justify asking the political elites to bestow you the gold medal instead of the silver.
You have to win the semi's to get into the finals.

[B Calm]

90. Neither candidate has the 2,383 pledged delegates required for a clinch. Bernie

has every right to take his campaign into the convention.

[beachbum bob]

108. 2 more days of nonsense

[SidDithers]

109. The dream dies hard...nt

Sid

[KitSileya]

115. I see you need a math lesson on denominators and numerator

If you take the superdelegates out of the numerator, you need to take them out the denominator too. If you have a big pile of apples and oranges, 4765 in all, and you declare the winner is the one who gets more than half, you cannot then demand that the winner make up that number with only the apples.

Hillary Clinton has more than half the pledged delegates. She beats Bernie Sanders. She also has the support of more than half the unpledged delegates. In every primary process prior to this one where they have been a factor, the superdelegates' word on who they will support has been trusted to count. There has been no movement whatsoever of superdelegates changing from Hillary Clinton to Bernie Sanders. The only candidate that has lost superdelegates who previously supported one candidate and now supports the other, in fact, has been Sanders. You want to change the rules in the middle of the process. That's cheating.

[Ace Rothstein]

118. LOL

[One of the 99]

119. Intellectually dishonest

If you're not going to count super delegates then the total needed is 2,026.

[apnu]

128. I voted for Bernie, but I can't stand Bernie supporters, this is why.

I think we could do with a solid dose of what Bernie is selling, but his supporters have turned me off. Hillary supporters maybe smug and defensive, but they don't make Bernie out to be the devil himself as Bernie people do to Hillary, and they don't try to sell dishonest math and hope.

[One of the 99]

129. I voted for Bernie too

and am having the same reaction to Bernie supporters. Just read Elizabeth Warren's facebook page. Disgusting what Bernie supporters have posted there.