The state of ".. or bust"

[CrowCityDem]

Now that we've had a bit of time for the hard feelings of the primary to settle down, and we've seen a glimpse into the future, I was wondering what the position of the "or bust" crowd is now.

We've just seen Donald Trump pull back the curtain, going full-on racist, fascist, and whatever other adjectives you thought could only exist in bad political movies. Trump is showing himself to be not just completely incompetent for the job, but a real threat to America's standing as the moral leader of the world. The way he talks, Trump will open up the floodgates of hatred in this country, taking us back to a time when anyone who wasn't a straight white man was the target of prejudice and exclusion.

Seeing what Trump is, how many of those "busters" are still holding out, saying it doesn't matter if Trump wins in the fall?

[PoliticAverse]

1. And are those who claim Clinton doesn't need the votes of Sanders' supporters still sticking

with their claim?

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. ^^^ Yeah, how about this? ^^^

Sanders supporters are irrelevant and not needed, right?

Which is it, dude - Are they, or aren't they?

[brush]

12. See post #11.

[tex-wyo-dem]

35. I will say this...

If the GOP were running any normal candidate, like a McCain, Rubio, kasich or Rmoney, she would be in big trouble. Instead she is running against a complete clown.

Trump is, well, her trump card.

If (and this is completely within the realm of possibility) the GOP dumps trump at the convention for a more mainstream candidate, she could likely lose.

[brush]

37. Nah! If they dump Trump she would win by a wider margin as Trump's supporters . . .

will urge him to run third party and/or sit it out.

A splintered party like that won't beat anyone?

[tex-wyo-dem]

45. Not so sure about that...

It works both ways.

Repubs hate hate hate Hillary and would likely still vote against her...kind of like some Bernie supporters voting for Hillary to keep Trump out of the WH, not because they like Clinton.

Keep in mind, Clinton has massive negatives. When she was polled against several candidates in the GOP primary, she lost handily. One that comes to mind was Kasich would beat her in just about every swing state by at least 5 points.

[Hortensis]

52. CrowCity, "letting it out" does NOT usually diminish anger

and hostility, it heats it up further. As you can see, this transition week is not a calm-down period for the ones you're wondering about.

Maybe just leave them alone? Unless poking a beehive is the general idea, of course.

[tex-wyo-dem]

71. I will say that I've been on DU almost on a daily basis...

For over a decade. Love this place and the main reason I do is that people here generally valued truth and reality over partisan worship. DU has always been about supporting the Democratic Party, but we were also allowed to call a spade a spade no matter if they had a (D) after their name or not.

With that said, it appears that won't be the case anymore after the 16th, and if your not willing to worship and march in line behind the nominee, you'll be banned. Don't want any part of that nonsense.

[HarmonyRockets]

90. There plenty of Trump supporting communities for you to join

Or Jill Stein communities.

[brush]

76. No one has more negatives than Trump. And a 3rd party run would be a disaster for the repugs

How do you think Bill Clinton won in the first place? Perot mounted a 3rd party run and took votes from the repugs.

Hillary would win in a walk if Trump gets dumped. The replacement repug nominee would represent a tainted party running against a Trump 3rd party and a Dem party much stronger than either of them.

Please let them dump Trump.

[Duval]

79. Kasich is the one for us to worry about, if Republicans dump Trump.

[Hortensis]

93. Seemingly many Republicans would vote for

anyone, but he has a very bad record for anyone who has discovered bottom and rejected it. Most of Kasich's history is unexamined outside his state, too, so lots of juicily new stories would be freshly interesting during the campaign. The whole thing is worrying, of course, but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for us if the pubs dredged him up from their hole.

[brush]

11. No one is saying we won't need Sanders supporters because most people . . .

know that around 70% if Sanders supporters, when polled, have said they will vote for the Dem nominee.

It's the dead-enders, the Bernie or busters who we've learned from their frequently repeated statements that they will never vote for Clinton — we've learned they can't be counted on. But they are only 25-30% of Sanders supporters.

With the rest of the Obama coalition — sensible progressive whites who don't want Trump appointing the next 3-4 SCOTUS justices, African Americans, Latino Americans, women, gays, Asian Americans, Native Americans, handicapped Americans, sensible left-leaning and moderate independents who also don't want Trump appointing the next 3-4 SCOTUS justices, and the jnon-buster Sanders supporters — we will beat the racist, student scamming, women-hating, proto-fascist Trump just as we beat Romney and McCain.

[Exilednight]

14. your statistics are a bit misguided. polls are all over the place on Sanders supporters.

If you want include Jill Stein and Gary whatever his name is libertarian candidate, the number of Bernie supporters drops significantly, one poll had them down to 40% supporting Hillary.

[brush]

17. I meant to post 70% not 79%. I will edit my number of Sanders supporters who will vote blue

But you have nothing to say about the rest of the Obama coalition and how we've beaten back Romney and McCain, two repug candidates undeniable more formidable than carnival barker Trump?

[Exilednight]

57. the Obama coalition is not turning out. the biggest drop in support

This primary season was first time voters of Obama in 2008 and 2012. Contrary to popular belief, they're not voting since Obama is not on the ticket.

Hillary is going to miss her 2008 number, which means there's less support for her this year than there was in 2008.

[brush]

75. According to who? You? Not the case at all. Most demvoters are sensible enough to not want Trump in.

Wishful thinking on your part. And also disappointing that so many dead-ender Bernie or busters, who have boxed themselves into an ideological corner since Sanders lost, are hoping for a Trump win.

Sad.

[Exilednight]

77. says exit polling data. they have not turned out this primary season.

Simple math, Obama and Hillary each received roughly 36 million combined votes I'm the 2008 primary. If even half the Obama coalition turned out for her, and she kept her same supporters, she would have roughly 24.5 million votes this primary season, but at her current average she will not even reach the same results she had in 2008.

[brush]

78. How do you think Hillary beat Sanders? Of course they turned out

And after the 70% of Sanders voters who are not Bernie or busters are added to the total, we'll beat Trump.

But keep praying that Trump wins. It's a good look on you.

[Exilednight]

80. if they voted, then why didn't she beat her 2008 totals? did that many

Former Hillary supporters stop supporting her?

[brush]

82. Simple. Some of them supported Sanders

As I said, 70% if Sanders supporters are non-dead-enders and will vote blue against the carnival barker repug.

[Exilednight]

94. what research are you basing this on?

[brush]

95. There was a post here last week on a poll result asking Sanders supporters that very thing.

Some 70% are sensible voters, not dead-enders at all.

[Duval]

81. I don't believe any Sanders supporters would really vote for Trump.

[brush]

83. That's a good thing.

[Maru Kitteh]

54. "one poll"

If it was credible, or remotely scientific, post it. I doubt that it was.

[Exilednight]

59. it was CBS/WSJ poll and it was NPR that referenced it in a story. The point is

That when Hillary and Trump are the only two polled, Sanders voters lean Hillary. They found that the more candidates that are named are offered to pollsters, that number quickly drops.

[Maru Kitteh]

69. I don't find this very credible without a link

I'm very sorry, it's nothing personal at all, just the way all of our brains work and confirmation bias and all that. Most people don't intentionally make inaccurate statements about things like this, they simply misread and store information in a way that fits their existing schema.

[Demsrule86]

19. No one has ever said that.

What we have said is we may very well have to do without such support if clueless supporters who don't understand the Trump danger refuse to back the Democratic nominee. It is always your choice. Your candidate lost...so you can save the country and possibly the world by voting for the Democratic nominee or not.

[DebDoo]

23. Actually, Manu have said that. Their attitude had been, screw you, we don't need you anyway. And it

Has been said by many people, in many ways

[Demsrule86]

33. If in fact in the end you decide to support Trump

by voting for the green traitor party, Trump himself or not voting...then I would say screw you too. We will have to get along without you. But I would hope, most would not do that.

[LoverOfLiberty]

62. That is an irrelevant questions

I mean, really, who bases their vote on what someone said in an Internet forum?

[Armstead]

3. Its not binary either/or

Trump sucks.

But that doesn't mean we should not also aim higher to create a better world, while fighting him.

[tex-wyo-dem]

4. +1

[CrowCityDem]

9. With the electoral college, it is absolutely binary. Either Trump wins, or Hillary wins.

[redStateBlueHeart]

88. Bingo. n/t

[HarmonyRockets]

91. By saying it's not a binary choice

you must be concluding that Jill Stein has a chance to win. I don't see any reason to think that. Trump and Clinton will be the two candidates competing for the presidency, meaning it is a binary choice whether you want it to be or not.

[coyote]

5. Clinton supporters said they got this.

No need for my help.

[CrowCityDem]

7. Bernie logic says you just endorsed Trump. Congrats.

If Warren being neutral is a sin, not endorsing Trump's opponent must be as well.

[coyote]

18. But you got this.

Clinton supporters told me so. Not to mention the numerous Clinton supporters here who have said that Bernie and his supporters are irrelevant.

It's good to know that you Clinton supporters are allowing us to take a load off on Election Day. We worked hard this year.

[eastwestdem]

27. So you're voting based on your distain for Hillary supporters?

Interesting statement on what type of person should and should not use social media.

[coyote]

60. No I vote on the issues

And Hillary certainly does not have my best interest in mind. Looking "presidential" and having a vagina is simply not enough.

[eastwestdem]

63. What issues of yours does Donald ensure?

An even better question, what issues that are important to you did Sanders actually have a plan to accomplish?

[obamanut2012]

72. "Looking "presidential" and having a vagina is simply not enough"

And, a jury left this.

[Marr]

84. As they should. It wasn't sexist in the slightest

and if Hillary's fans have a lick of sense, they'll stop making this kneejerk accusation at every bend. It makes them look like wilting, overly-sensitive crybabies. No one votes for weakness.

[MoonRiver]

29. Yep, Hillary's got this, so you can stay home and stew if it helps.

[tex-wyo-dem]

39. Thanks for validating your disdain for Bernie supporters...

Your snark is noted.

Just don't come crying when the GOP replaces Trump with a "better" candidate and beats the pants off Hill.

[leftofcool]

46. 2 more days!

[tex-wyo-dem]

49. Yep...obsequious echo chambers are so much fun!

So fragile

[brush]

13. See post 11

[tex-wyo-dem]

16. See post 5

[brush]

20. If you had bothered to read post 11 you would've seen that we aren't including . . .

Bernie or Busters in the coalition that will defeat Trump, the same coalition, btw, that defeated Romney and McCain.

Trump is a joke compared to them, so no, we're not counting on the dead-enders to help defeat the carnival barker, student-scammer, racist, proto-fascist Trump.

[tex-wyo-dem]

30. At least with Trump...

He wears his shit on his sleeve...you know exactly what you're getting.

[leftofcool]

47. Hopefully you won't be voting for him since you know what you are getting and all.

[tex-wyo-dem]

51. Me voting for trump?

But you're saying I should vote for the lesser of two evils again? Is that your point?

[leftofcool]

58. I think you should vote for who ever you want to.

[Chan790]

66. I'm voting for Justin Trudeau then!

If Hillary is the best we can do, we should close up shop and become South Canada. That would be momentous, eh?!

[leftofcool]

6. Most Sanders supporter are intelligent people who know what is at stake.

Even those who don't care for Hillary know she is far better for the country than Trump, in fact about 1000 times better. Those who refuse to vote or write in Sanders, or vote for some 3rd party will just have to do what they do.

[BobbyDrake]

8. They all moved over to another site. JackSquatFanaticals, I think.

They named it after everything they've accomplished.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. Lol

[tex-wyo-dem]

15. You just validated post #5...

Fuck unity; right BobbyDrake?

[BobbyDrake]

24. Aww, did I make fun of your precious new hatesite? Poor you!!

[tex-wyo-dem]

34. Hate site? Whatever ...

It's certainly better than being an obsequious group-thinking echo chamber that Hill supporters are hoping upon hope DU will become.

I've been here for over a decade, and that is not the DU I love.

[BobbyDrake]

36. You're the ones who had to found a separate site because YOU couldn't handle opposing opinions.

Spare me your endless victimhood already. As far as groupthink goes, look in the mirror to find it.

[tex-wyo-dem]

40. So DU Hillary supporters didn't start their own website...

When their feelings got hurt over here at DU? Much of it used to backstab DU members they didn't agree with.

http://hillaryclintonsupporters.com/

Whatever.

BTW...Jackpine Radicals was founded in part in homage to a late great and beloved member of DU with the JPR username.

[leftofcool]

48. Thanks for the link.

[Hortensis]

56. But would he approve of what his name

is being used for? I've read a few of the threads over there that are causing it to be described as a hate site. I'll add that there is also a very dismaying trend to hostile conspiracy theories that are way over the edge. What's good for DU, i.e., taking it somewhere else, appears to be very unhealthy for those immersing themselves in much heavier concentrations at that site.

[Snotcicles]

41. How do you know? you weren't here then. nt

[Chan790]

68. ...

[font size="7"]?[/font]

[Snotcicles]

21. A lot of them were/are actual gold star, paying DU members. I'm sure the admins will disagree. nt

[BobbyDrake]

25. Paying to increase their jury chances, maybe.

ETA: Or are we supposed to believe it's just a coincidence that they're all jumping ship ahead of the jury system rework? No more tyranny of the majority, so I guess it's not going to be as much fun?

[JimDandy]

42. Since you are new here, let me clue you in BobbyDrake.

Many of the members who left DU for JPR were star members of DU for years-some of them since the start of DU. A lot of them provided substantial content to this site which helped build it into what it is. So, no, something as incredibly shallow as the reworked jury system did not motivate them to be star members, but I can see why you would think that:

...I guess it's not going to be as much fun

They are Progressives who have principles and will continue to work toward the laws, policies, rules and regulations they believe need to be inacted. Because of the new rules here, that work cannot be accomplished at DU.

[BobbyDrake]

44. I guess someone at JackSquatFanaticals must have posted about this.

How many more petulant replies can I expect from the disgruntled horde?

[Loudestlib]

64. ^^^Payed Puppet^^^

[JimDandy]

73. Good grief, no one gives one care about you, an anonymous poster,

at JPR.

You were schooled and making petulant replies in return is to be expected from you.

Ciao...

[BobbyDrake]

74. Boy, my ignore button is getting a workout today.

[qdouble]

87. They are some of the nastiest people ever over there. I wonder how many are here pretending to

be sane while they spit the most vile and insane conspiratorial nonsense over there.

[BobbyDrake]

89. Agreed. You cannot say what they're saying and call yourself "progressive" in any way.

If you were wondering what the people behind Gamer-Gate have been up to ever since, see JackSquatFanaticals.

[Snotcicles]

65. +1.nt

[qdouble]

86. That site is filled with rabid hateful crazy people. No respect at all is over there cursing the

entire party and thinking of the most hateful things they can say about the nominee on a daily basis. Good riddance to any trash person who think that is a better site than here.

[Warren DeMontague]

99. You seem strangely bitter about something.

Come on, let it all out.

[JTFrog]

28. I don't think they mind losing folks who are all about calling our first female candidate

the disgusting vulgar shit they call her over there.

Good riddance to that crowd.

[qdouble]

43. for real lol... DU would be so much better if we had people openly expose their hatred

for women and the majority of democratic party . That place is horrible, but exposes what type of frauds pretend to be rational people on here.

[qdouble]

22. That place is a sewer...anybody who expresses most of the shit over there isn't really a democrat

[stonecutter357]

31. We should report JackSquatFanaticals to SPLC.

[TwilightZone]

55. It's an echo chamber for a select few who insist that DU is too echo-chambery.

Not sure how that works, but that seems to be the synopsis of the place.

[bravenak]

97. :::

[MoonRiver]

26. Hillary will beat that fascist ignoramus in a landslide.

So, whatever Bernie supporters do, vote for Hillary, vote for Rump, or not vote, it's all good.

[tex-wyo-dem]

32. She better beat the fascist ignoramous...

A frickin' trash can could beat trump.

Trump is her saving grace...if she were up against a Rubio or kasich or even Rmoney, she would be in big trouble. Who knows...that may still happen.

[leftofcool]

50. Don't worry about it.

[TheCowsCameHome]

92. I'm not worried, but she should

because it's a real possibility that Trump won't "it"

[CorkySt.Clair]

98. +1

[Adrahil]

38. I only know one "Buster" personally....

And he's very close to throwing in the towel on that. He's already said he will "probably" vote for Clinton.

[Maru Kitteh]

70. Yes, lol. Internet cahones are always much bigger

than they are in real life.

And - it's VERY VERY EARLY. November is a long way away. Most SBS supporters will vote for Hillary. Some have already stated they will give money and time as well.

We're going to be fine.

[HumanityExperiment]

53. ...corrected...

'Now that we've had a bit of time for the hard feelings of the primary to settle down, and we've seen a glimpse into the future, I was wondering what the position of the "or bust" crowd is now'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107164845

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107165178

might want to revise your bit about the HRC support crew here on DU

[Orsino]

61. A few anecdotes from DUers are not likely to tell you anything significant. n/t

[floriduck]

85. Why are you asking now? The opposition was never interested in our input before.

[PowerToThePeople]

96. Bernie or Bust! n/t

[LWolf]

100. OMG.

You think the hard feelings are "settling down?" While the hatefest against the left wing of the party and nation continues?

I don't know what universe you are living in.

I've never claimed to be a "buster," although I certainly relate to them better than to the fucking neo-liberals running the Democratic Party, and their enablers.

I can't tell you where the "or bust" crowd is; I haven't been chatting with them.

I can tell you that neo-liberals right here on DU are still pushing Sanders hate, Sanders supporters hate, and hate of the left-wing of the party, and it certainly isn't convincing me to see them, nor their candidate, as any "lesser" evil than that other evil.