2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders Calls For Major Reforms to Democratic Party
"Bernie Sanders on Tuesday laid out a list of reforms he plans to fight for in the coming weeks, including new leadership at the Democratic National Committee, the elimination of superdelegates, and passing the "most progress" platform ever at next month's convention in Philadelphia.
Sanders remarks, which came on the final day of the Democratic nominating contest and hours before he is to meet with Hillary Clinton, provided the most complete picture yet for what he will likely prioritize before pledging support for the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.
Throughout his upstart campaign, Sanders clashed with many in the Democratic party establishment. Notable among those is DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who Sanders' campaign tried to pressure into sanctioning more primary debates.
"We need a person at the leadership of the DNC who is vigorously supporting and out working to bring people into the political process," Sanders said. "Yeah, I know political parties need money. But it is more important that we have energy."
Sanders also called for electoral reform, including the elimination of superdelegates who have overwhelmingly pledged to support Clinton. He also called for open primaries, which would allow more of the independent voters who supported Sanders to vote in Democratic primaries, and same day voter registration.
"We need an electoral process that is worthy of the Democratic party," Sanders said."
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/amp/bernie-sanders-calls-major-reforms-democratic-party-n592326
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)he is not serious about making the Democratic Party more "democratic."
As for Sanders' notion that open primaries would help outsiders like him come in and take over the party, I'd appreciate it if he'd spent 5 seconds worrying that further "revolution" might be taken over by people like the Kochs and their alliances of nearly 1000 billionaires and megamillionaires. Charles Koch is already using Sanders' terminology to seduce Sanders followers into thinking he's on their side.
If it weren't so scary, listening to Koch virtuously claim the Democratic primary was "rigged" would be hilarious.
uponit7771
(90,304 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oasis
(49,338 posts)eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)Hopefully is 15 min of fame will be over soon. He is adding nothing to the conversation.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Better than the tapioca we've been getting for 30 years.
oasis
(49,338 posts)but, Bernie wants to "throw out the baby with the bath water". I'm lefty enough but, not quite that much.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)How is standing up for the things he mentioned in his list of issues all that different than what Democrats claim to support?
It's more a matter of throwing out the excessive fear and allegiance to Wall St/Corporate Big Money and Big Power that needs to be jetisoned.
That doesn't mean overthrowing the American Way of Life. It means returning to what is claimed to be the American Way of Life, and a system in which two parties actually compete on the "battlefield of ideas."
oasis
(49,338 posts)to work to build and slowly reshape the goals of the party, that's fine too. No revolution.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)the Republicans are involved).
oasis
(49,338 posts)on tour next year. I'm sure it will generate a certain amount of interest.
Meanwhile, the Clinton administration will be tackling the more important issues facing the country.
Tarc
(10,475 posts)The point of a political party is to have an organization around a common set of ideas, none one that's open to a) opposition ratfuckery and b) susceptible to the flavor-of-the-moment candidate
Sanders needs to come to fucking terms with this simple notion; he lost. The losing candidate doesn't get to impose his will upon the party, a party that he nominally "joined" a fucking year ago.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)36 states have a Democratic primary or caucus that is:
-- Completely open to all registered voters.
-- Open to registered Democrats and unaffiliated voters.
-- Open only to registered Democrats, but voter can change on the same day.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Empty memes are better than actually discussing anything.
Tarc
(10,475 posts)and some time period, a month or so, if you are currently registered with another party. Something to cut down on the ratfuckery, while allowing true new voters into the party easily.
Caucuses should be flushed entirely.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)on election day, I agree. A number of states do it that way. And same day registration is very important.
I think people are basically declaring themselves to be Democrats by voting Democratic, but if they are required to make it "official" I think it would be more of a party building thing. People who really object to taking on the label "Democrat" might object to being "forced" to, and stay away. Perhaps the psychological difference of having to change registration wouldn't actually make a difference, but I have a feeling it would.
I'm from NJ and participated in a caucus for the first time here. It was nice to see neighbors actually coming together in a more personal way, but prefer primaries. I do understand objections to the cost of a primary for a "club" activity.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Completely agree. I believe Charles Koch et ilk have been taking very careful notes about the weaknesses on the left revealed by Sanders's candidacy and are already planning some major ultraconservative ratfuckery.
One way or another, it would be very surprising if some major funding and organizational assistance wasn't funneled to the anti-Democrat left wing in future.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)n/t
LuvLoogie
(6,936 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)I don't want Republicans picking our nominee.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Go home, Bernie. You're drunk.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)I was juror #2
I would never put up with a guest in my house telling me how to decorate.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2184933
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
That is incredibly insulting beyond the usual standards.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jun 14, 2016, 05:13 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Until Bernie registers at DU he remains nothing more than a candidate, and therefore fair game. This is a specious alert, hoping to have a post hidden not due to any TOS violation, but to a difference of opinion. Sorry, it does't work that way. LEAVE IT
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: poster should put the bottle down..
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Cannot reply to automated messages
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Plus "go home, you're drunk" is a fairly old meme. Typical abuse of the jury system these days though.
So obviously "both sides do it" too, am I right?
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)But I'm an old timer around here and I remember the good old days on DU.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)can't wait
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)These drunk posts are getting out of hand already.
I wish that people would refrain from posting after they have been on a binge.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I get confused whether I should beg to be let in, or guilted into washing your windows.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)It's no surprise, though, that a failed radical doesn't accept how democracy actually functions. He lost. It's really that simple.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)add some intelligence to your declaration. Please show me what is radical about his proposals. They have all been a part of our society at one point in time until the Clintons took over back in the 80s. And don't go with free K-16...that's how I got my degree. It was defintely doable until Reagan.
Please, you have all the answers...now enlighten us.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)As far as your degree goes, I'd ask for a refund.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)I'll be waiting.
Oh, and some of us were around Before the Clintons, and he/they took the party rightward. Study up on political science.
And then there is Reagan...he's who we need a refund for.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)If independents want to change party affiliation, letting them do it on election day is the correct way to go about it.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)The party has no control over most of these things.
jamese777
(546 posts)if right wingers want to disrupt the Democratic Party's selection process because the Republican candidate has already been selected, so they same day register as Democrats in order to vote for who they think is the weakest Democratic candidate.
I prefer having a mix of open primaries, closed primaries, caucuses and hybrids. I think that is the best way to see how candidates do with various constituencies and interest groups.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Triana
(22,666 posts)midnight
(26,624 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)If Bernie is serious about "working to bring people into the political process" there is no excuse for completely ignoring caucuses.
As for open primaries? I'm fine with semi-open primaries, but Republicans should not get to have a say in the Democratic nominee.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)I'm fine with open primaries as long as that locks you out of switching sides in the GE.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)which is why the control has to be at the primary level
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Your vote. The primary is the only time it could be appropriate to restrict voting by party.
Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)And that's just this election cycle.
This should be common knowledge.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)floriduck
(2,262 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)The statement I was addressing was this.
"The loser doesn't get to dictate the terms."
And I've proven otherwise. Whether or not those "terms" actually gets implemented wasn't a part of the original discussion.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)floriduck
(2,262 posts)think
(11,641 posts)Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)think
(11,641 posts)Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)And what he's doing is wrong.
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/D
What you're advocating is an "undemocratic" process where the powerful overturn the will of the voters. You advocate stealing and election. How do you live with yourself?
think
(11,641 posts)Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)Is it to steal elections?
They have pledged themselves to the winner just like they did in EVERY OTHER cycle since 1980.
think
(11,641 posts)Feminism[edit]
The Feminist Movement was a major influence on the Democratic platform of 1972, and on the entire convention in general. With renewed vigor, the Democrats reaffirmed their dedication to the Equal Rights Amendment, as did the Republicans.
There were disagreements within the Democrats of the National Women's Political Caucus (NWPC), and the Women's Movement in general, over how to best approach certain issues. At the convention Betty Friedan clashed with Gloria Steinem over the way NWPC women should approach certain issues, and whether or not they should make sure to throw all possible support behind Shirley Chisholm (both women were supporters of Chisholm's presidential campaign).
~Snip~
McGovern ultimately excised the abortion issue from the party's platform; recent publications show McGovern was deeply conflicted on the issue.[6] Actress and activist Shirley MacLaine, though privately supporting abortion rights, urged the delegates to vote against the plank. Gloria Steinem later wrote this description of the events:
The consensus of the meeting of women delegates held by the caucus had been to fight for the minority plank on reproductive freedom; indeed our vote had supported the plank nine to one. So fight we did, with three women delegates speaking eloquently in its favor as a constitutional right. One male Right-to-Life zealot spoke against, and Shirley MacLaine also was an opposition speaker, on the grounds that this was a fundamental right but didn't belong in the platform. We made a good showing. Clearly we would have won if McGovern's forces had left their delegates uninstructed and thus able to vote their consciences.[7]
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Democratic_National_Convention#Platform
That's what Bernie is talking about. Bringing issues and delegates to the convention to push for planks to be included in the platform. I realize the Democratic platform is pretty much a paper tiger but it does put things in motion. It's part of the democratic process....
Response to NWCorona (Original post)
Gomez163 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)but there will come a year in which the Republicans will have just one candidate (who is unopposed for the nomination) and there will be a ton of Republicans who will want to vote in the Democratic Primary to stick the Democrats with the candidate easiest to beat. That year the Democrats will quite properly complain that they should be permitted to pick their own candidate without interference by Republicans.
The point is that there are pluses and minuses to both open and closed primaries. In California, the Democrats allow non-Democrats to vote in their primaries, but the Republicans will not allow any non-Republicans to participate in their primaries. They insist that the Republicans should choose the Republican nominee for President.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)In the general election.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)the party doesn't own the persons vote because they voted in the primary
thats why the party should/must control who votes in its primary
ISUGRADIA
(2,571 posts)If somebody votes in the Democratic primary for president how do you prevent them from voting for other candidates in November? Something that has no chance of ever passing.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)It seems like there were some kinks in implementation this year but on paper it seems like the fairest compromise.
There are genuine independents who may prefer a candidate in one party's primary one year and a candidate in another party's primary 4 years later. Why shouldn't they be able to have a say in who their choices for president will be?
floriduck
(2,262 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Political theater is all this is. We know the platform is going to be the most progressive it has been, DWS is out after the GE, and he got beaten royally SD's or not.
He didn't mention caucus states?
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)use to subvert democracy. As they say, you can't make this stuff up.
Is there anything else he wants that might actually help people, or is it all about how the DNC should have opened up everything to let a nondemocrat (for 30+ years) sweep in and take it all?
oasis
(49,338 posts)an about face on superpacs as well, now he's low on funds.
jtx
(68 posts)The whole process needs an honest overhaul, but doubt that will happen. Both parties have turned into two sides of the same coin in the pocket of Goldman Sachs and their ilk. Hard to imagine we would have a candidate wearing $12,000 jackets lecturing us on income inequality.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)You lost.
thelordofhell
(4,569 posts)There, saved you a long reading........
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)before he starts to demand reforms!
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)Not THAT!!!!!
K and R
Metric System
(6,048 posts)Response to NWCorona (Original post)
tallahasseedem This message was self-deleted by its author.
wisteria
(19,581 posts)But he can't expect as a new member, that he can just get everything he wants. For instants, I like closed primaries. I don't want non Democrats having a say in selecting our candidates. A lot of mischief can take place with just anyone being able to vote in our Primaries.