Is it trolling or just plain stubbornness?

[bravenak]

I'm leaning towards stubborness. I mean, damn! How long does it take a person to count up the delegates and realize that they lost? I really have never seen anything so remarkably hopeless and useless as hanging on as one's influence diminishes by the second.

I bet there will be a cold reception when the losing candidate returns to the vaunted halls of our Senate and he realizes he has called his colleagues corrupt for the past year on the campaign trail. I guess somebody can say 'bye bye' to those committee assignments and 'hello' to obscurity and a primary challenger.

I mean, unless he wants stop being so stubborn and endorse our first Female Nominee. To do anything else would be uncivilized.

[Autumn]

1. I'm going to go with trolling...

[JonLeibowitz]

74. LOL!!

[tallahasseedem]

2. Rachel's show just did a breakdown...

of Democratic primary races and it was eye opening. Bernie lost by 13%...Hillary in 2008? Tied at 48%. She bowed out with class, something I wish would happen now.

[bravenak]

15. Yep. It's time.

I'm honestly embarassed for him at this point.

[sheshe2]

31. Ya, well....

men do not concede to women. Not ever.

[bravenak]

33. It's obvious what's going on here

Her win was historic and some want to strip that from her

[virtualobserver]

78. What you are missing is that not everything revolves around her

There are two factions in the Democratic Party, and the one that Bernie represents refuses to be ignored. Many people who voted for Hillary still agree with Bernie on the issues. They aren't wringing their hands over the convention.

[bravenak]

85. She won

[virtualobserver]

86. But she was not crowned empress, and we intend for our voices to be heard

[bravenak]

87. You were heard. We outvoted you

[virtualobserver]

88. and we will be heard at the convention

[bravenak]

89. That's nice.

[virtualobserver]

90. it is....Conventions can be more that just the rubber stamping of nominations

[bravenak]

92. Wont be this time

[virtualobserver]

97. of course it will

[bravenak]

98. You all need ya crystal balls replaced

[virtualobserver]

99. no crystal ball necessary

[bravenak]

101. They dont work nohow

[virtualobserver]

105. they are pretty, though

[bravenak]

108. If one is attracted to pretty things thats fine

[7wo7rees]

34. Honestly embarrassed for you and your obsession. Let it go.

Bernie has every right to go to the convention. There are many states with too many voting irregularities. Yes, he lost, okay. But he still won a number of states and takes with him a large number of delegates working for positive change.

If the voting machines are not fixed, exactly what are you counting on come November?

Do you honestly believe that election fraud will not continue?

Very sad for you Brave.

[bravenak]

37. Sad for the delusions that people have about the fbi or every non vote being a sure bernie vote

I saw nothing where voting machines made him lose. Look at the margins in DC. That is real. Time to give it up.

[7wo7rees]

44. Brave, in every response you fly off the handle.I said nothing about the FBI.

I think it might be time for you to "give it up". Bernie and his pledged delegates are going to the Democratic convention. No more and no less.

[bravenak]

46. You call this flying off the handle?

Quite delicate

[swhisper1]

3. try a new song Bravenak, you are starting to sound like a parrot

visit the humour group or the photograpy group and chill

[bravenak]

16. No

[AgingAmerican]

4. Its the FBI

Hope that clears it up for ya

[Zynx]

8. That's not a reason to "stay in the race."

If anything comes of that, which I doubt, we can handle it at the convention. The race, however, is over. He lost.

[AgingAmerican]

9. Yes it is

She is the first presumed presidential candidate under active FBI investigation in US history.

If anyone is indicted, or if there is any criminal wrongdoing found, she will be forced to drop out. Even after the convention.

Running a candidate under active FBI investigation is political suicide, and Sanders fully realizes this.

[Zynx]

11. He's not making that argument.

And the superdelegates don't buy it, either.

[PepperHarlan]

25. That's because they're sane.

[eastwestdem]

22. Has he not learned? Even if Hillary wasn't the nominee, the Dems would bring in someone else

to take her place. Someone who is a loyal party member. (i.e. not Sanders)

[AgingAmerican]

26. If the DNC wants to commit political suicide, then that's on them

[msongs]

5. sanders crowd says DC wAS stolen due to fraud etc. it never dies does it. maybe he will NEVER

publically acknowledge he lost and she won

[bravenak]

17. Still at it, eh? They need to chill on that faux outrage

[JonLeibowitz]

76. Yep, the WHOLE crowd is saying that

Er, wait, no.

[ram2008]

6. Hillary did the same thing in 2008

Remember her famous Robert Kennedy quote?

[quote]
"We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California," Clinton told the editorial board of a South Dakota newspaper. " I don't understand it," Clinton added, alluding to the calls for her to quit.[/quote]

Terrible thing to say, but I guess her point was anything could happen. For Bernie, I imagine he thinks theres a small chance of an FBI indictment derailing her campaign. There is no reason for him to leave until the nomination is completely finished, however, he can tacitly suspend his campaign by not attacking Clinton anymore, ceasing campaign events, etc. Which to my knowledge he will do.

Another reason he shouldn't leave yet is to leverage his position in order to influence the party platform. I think everyone knows Hillary will be the nominee, but there's no reason to push him out.

[Zynx]

12. She got out after the primaries were concluded. Using the same schedule, Bernie should be out by Sat

[bravenak]

19. Hillary released her delegates instead of making demands for ransom

[ram2008]

36. You don't know what went on behind closed doors

Her SOS position and Obama setting up for her 2016 run were most likely part of negotiations. There is no ransom going on, just politics.

[bravenak]

40. You don't know anything of the sort. You are speculating too.

[ram2008]

47. They certainly had private meetings the days after the final primary

Where possibly putting her on the ticket, retiring her campaign debt etc were discussed.

..."They talked about how to come together and how to unify this party and move forward because what we have at stake in November is so important," Robert Gibbs, the Obama campaign's communication director, said Friday on CNN's "American Morning." Video Watch Gibbs explain the secret meeting »...

Clinton plans to suspend her campaign within days, her campaign said. By suspending instead of dropping out, Clinton technically would remain a candidate, entitled to keep statewide pledged delegates and district-level delegates.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/06/clinton.obama.wrap/index.html?iref=newssearch

In the end Bernie will support Hillary, give it time. No need to turn off Bernie supporters by calling him a troll. The same exact process is happening now, not sure where all the outrage comes from.

[bravenak]

49. I said he was stubborn in my op

Not sure if trolling on top of that

[ram2008]

52. And I said the same exact thing could be said of Hillary in 08. nt

[bravenak]

54. And she took plenty of heat for it. His turn. Heat, kitchen, etc.

[DLCWIdem]

30. hate to.tell you ----it is June and she won

[Lil Missy]

57. No she didn't. The spread was A LOT closer. Bernie lost overall by 13 points.

[ram2008]

58. What difference does the spread make, in both cases they clearly lost the delegate count.

Arguably where Bernie won is very important. He won the youth vote by enormous margins, which means his ideas are literally the future of the party.

Also, Obama wasn't under FBI investigation.

[lancer78]

66. And what does that

prove? She is under FBI investigation and still beat him by 13 points. He might have the youth vote, but they stayed home when he needed them.

[ram2008]

69. It proves that anything can happen between now and the convention n/t

In the end, Bernie will endorse Hillary if she stays true to the progressive cause and avoids indictment.

[bravenak]

75. Wishful thinking is magical

[oasis]

7. If Hillary makes any concessions to Bernie for his help in the GE

it must yield significant results. He'd better work his hiney off on the campaign trail.

[bravenak]

24. I agree

But I think it's hopeless to rely on him

[oasis]

41. Bernie's supposed to have some kind of phone-in town hall Thursday.

That should give us a hint on the level of his commitment on defeating Trump.

[bravenak]

42. We'll see. I am ever hopeful

[NWCorona]

10. How many days after the last vote was cast in 2008 did it take Hillary to suspend?

[Zynx]

13. About 4.

[NWCorona]

14. Yet Sanders’s is "so remarkably hopeless" lol

[Zynx]

20. To be fair, the 2008 result was a bit more ambiguous. The popular vote was iffy and the FL and MI

situations were also ambiguous, though even they couldn't bring her over the top at full strength. Her win in 2016 has been much more decisive than her loss in 2008.

[NWCorona]

27. I'm not denying the math but it's a bit much to be aghast that Bernie hasn't dropped out yet.

Isn't he meeting with Hillary at this moment?

[bravenak]

21. He is way farther behind than she was

[NWCorona]

28. What does that matter when the end result is the same?

It's not like we were waiting on a recount or something.

[bravenak]

29. What is he waiting on?

She endirsed Obama and gave a great speech and stumped for him. Bernie is not behaving lik he has any intention of helping us

[NWCorona]

32. Isn't he talking to Hillary at this moment?

Doesn't he have a press event scheduled for Thurs?

Hillary endorsed Obama June 7th 4 days after the last vote was counted.

[bravenak]

35. He left and she won DC by enormous margins. The people spoke, when will he listen?

Or do we all have to wait on him to get on our side. He needs to get with the program and help us fight Trump and stop wasting time.

[NWCorona]

38. I see you didn't answer any of my questions.

Just stirring the pot I see.

[bravenak]

39. Nobody ever answers mine either

[NWCorona]

43. I've never answered your questions before?

Sans this op because I'll be honest enough to tell you that I think it's a bit much.

[bravenak]

45. I answered your first one

He left from his conversation with Hillary. I dont stay up on his schedule beyond that.

[NWCorona]

50. Come on now, don't play me like I'm running around here with a flower pot on my head.

It should be apparent that things are moving somewhat in tandem behind the scenes.

[bravenak]

51. It seems like he starts moving where he should, then comes out and says different

[NWCorona]

55. Has he said anything after he met with Hillary? I think what he says then would be key.

Everything up to that point has been chess moves.

I don't know what he will say or do but what ever it is I will most likely support but I never expected him to finalize anything today.

[bravenak]

56. He acted cool after he met with Obama but flipped the script quick

I expect no change

[NWCorona]

59. I don't think anyone expected Bernie to drop out after meeting with Obama either.

Who knows, maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised this time.

[bravenak]

60. Not surprised at all, here it is, hot off the presses

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280212907

[NWCorona]

64. I just read the that and I don't see in the press release where it says that he's still in the race

Only that he and Clinton have more work to do. The article actually mentioned that it gives no indication of his plans and then the author falls back on earlier statements for the head line.

What does that prove other than what we've already covered here?

[bravenak]

65. Nothing he says actually says anything these days

I'm just waiting for him to get it together. Trump is having hate rallies and it would b nice to spend our energy on him

[NWCorona]

67. The thing is there is nothing stopping you from doing that.

Focus on Trump.

[bravenak]

68. I will. But until Bernie concedes I have to split my energy between the two of them

[NWCorona]

71. Why even bother? Hillary has moved on and for all intents and purposes Bernie has too

Why can't you? Seriously? You say with one breath that you want him to get on board and then the other you belittle him. There is a process to this and it is being played out. Have some patience and what and see what he has to say on Thurs.

Something to think about.

[bravenak]

73. I will when he concedes. I already said my do or die date was his concession date

Why should it matter to you? I don't see you stopping folks from bashing Hillary. And mind, this op is no where near as bad as the stuff said about Hillary daily, like when they call her a murderer

[NWCorona]

80. It shouldn't matter really.

I have called out a few but you are right I do give that a pass even tho I shouldn't. But to be honest even though I have zero on my block list I tend to tune out a lot on both sides. Especially the hit it and quit it types.

Do or die date aside. You and I both know you are on one with this op.

[bravenak]

81. On two

[NWCorona]

82. Lol

[eastwestdem]

18. Ego. Pure and simple. nt

[bravenak]

23. Yep

[bravenak]

53. You came here to say THAT?

You feel better now, since you got that amazing speech off your chest?

[akbacchus_BC]

61. Why don't you give it a rest and let Mr. Sanders supporters

decide whom they want to vote for rather than you being in their face all the time?

You are not doing your presumptive nominee any favours, you are alienating voters who need to regroup and make a decision. Voting is a civic right!

[bravenak]

62. I will. Tomorrow. And he aint doing himself no favors either

[akbacchus_BC]

63. We will see.

[azurnoir]

70. Thank you and I mean it

[bravenak]

79. I'm sure you do

[azurnoir]

91. I do I think you speak very well for Hillary's supporters and the Democratic Party

[bravenak]

93. Thats nice

[Jim Lane]

72. This talk about Bernie's committee assignments is totally absurd.

Right now the Republicans have 55 seats. If the Democrats hold the Vice Presidency and make a net gain of five seats, then they'll need Bernie's vote (and Angus King's) to have a majority.

If the Democrats have a seat or two to spare, they still won't go out of their way to tick off Bernie, just to get their rocks off or to please vindictive Internet posters. They'll be aware that many Senators are elderly and that many of the governors who would appoint a replacement are Republicans.

And then there's 2018. I think it's 23 Democrats (plus King and Sanders) whose terms will be expiring. Bernie Sanders has a list of more than two million donors (not just supporters, but people who've actually given money). He's already demonstrated that he can raise a significant amount of money for someone else just by sending out one email blast. If, in a Senate Democratic caucus meeting in early 2017, some hothead from a safely blue state calls for ostracizing Bernie, I believe that quite a few other Democrats will speak up and say, "Well, let's not be so hasty, here."

And as for "obscurity", well, no. Practical politicians will recognize that Bernie reached millions of voters, and made a fight of it against the party establishment's candidate who was the overwhelming pre-primary favorite. They'll know that not a one of them, had he or she entered the race, could have come anywhere close to that kind of showing against the massed force of the party establishment, let alone done so without big donors and without much media coverage. Practical politicians respect success.

[bravenak]

84. He wants people kicked off committes and wants DWS to lose her job so why not him too?

[Jim Lane]

102. Because the decision will be made by 50 or so practical politicians.

They will focus on those committee chairships and subcommittee chairships they crave, plus their own personal re-election chances. They will give those factors far, far more weight than any number of Internet calls for retribution.

[bravenak]

104. 50 or so ESTABLISHMENT superdelegates who he called corrupt

[Jim Lane]

109. Right, they're such delicate flowers that criticism from months earlier will still rile them.

I explained the pragmatic considerations that will lead Senate Democrats to continue to want to work with Bernie. You think all that will be outweighed because they still won't have recovered from having been criticized half a year earlier?

Get real. Politicians are criticized all the time. Their attitude will be "That was then, this is now." They'll be thinking about those chairships and those two million donors. They won't be interested in childish petulance.

[bravenak]

110. Well, they sure didn't seem to give him their votes after those diatribes

He might have to be more respectful to get his committee assignments. Fughting us at the convention might make some of those establishment dems withold support. Best to keep it peaceful.

[Jim Lane]

111. You're really projecting here.

You think the Senate Democrats will act the way members of the Hillary Clinton Group would act in their place.

At this point, you and I are talking past each other. You have no interest in addressing the practical considerations that I think will be overwhelmingly important. I don't think I can say anything else useful here. You may now have the last word in this subthread, and we'll see what happens in January.

[bravenak]

112. Not really. I'm saying that they are humans an were attacked as corrupt

They might not like it no matter politics or not.

[geek tragedy]

77. He has stopped being a problem for Clinton.

That's all we could hope to get out of him, so we're good.

[bravenak]

83. I think he might end soon as he is not getting a positive reaction

[immoderate]

94. You sound stubborn.

--imm

[bravenak]

95. I am

[immoderate]

96. Not that I'm complaining...

--imm

[Live and Learn]

100. Rather ironic title for you to post, isn't it? nt

[bravenak]

103. You think so? Naw. Seems fine to me.

[Live and Learn]

106. Oh yes, I do. I found it quite entertaining as I do most of your posts. nt

[bravenak]

107. Awesome

[coyote]

113. It would be foolish of him to quit

considering our "presumptive" nominee is under a FBI criminal investigation.

[MFM008]

114. HRC camp said

The meeting between her and Sanders went very well and lasted longer than planned.
A hopeful sign.

[bravenak]

115. I bet she gave him comfort

She is the type to be empathetic

[MFM008]

116. I agree

[Gothmog]

117. Sanders is a bitter old man who can not give up his anger