2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIf it's not ego, then what is Bernie doing?
Let's deal in facts. He's not going to be the nominee. He's not going to get his single payer. Holding out his endorsement is going to accomplish absolutely nothing in terms of policy changes of the US government. Nothing. Period. He has no actual power to change policy in the progressive direction. The only power he has is to help Trump become president. That's it.
He can make some of his angry supporters happy by giving the finger to the Democratic Party. But that doesn't actually make life better for the 99% or accomplish anything in terms of policy change besides making Trump more likely to be president. Is that what he wants? Does he want to give a big FU to the Democrats, and is willing to risk Trump in order to do so?
Someone explain please. What is he thinking?
tecelote
(5,122 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)He's not. He lost, he can't move anything anywhere anymore. He can only move us in the Trump direction.
I'm sure he's making some people happy by still talking his talk, but that doesn't "move" anything. It's just him preaching to his choir. It changes nothing.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)Don't take my word for it...
Has Bernie Sanders Moved Hillary Clinton To The Left?
http://www.npr.org/2016/03/31/472500966/has-bernie-sanders-moved-hillary-clinton-to-the-left
How Bernie changed Hillary
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/how-bernie-changed-hillary-222726
Why America Is Moving Left
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/why-america-is-moving-left/419112/
Enthusiasm for Bernie Sanders forces Hillary Clinton to the left
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/8/bernie-sanders-shifts-hillary-clinton-to-left-wing/
YouDig
(2,280 posts)All he can do is help Trump and piss Dems off. Do you really think that Democrats in government are going to govern differently because of anything Bernie does in the next month?
tecelote
(5,122 posts)I guess we just disagree. I think we need to move to the left. Bernie is keeping the conversation where it needs to be.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)But, shit, we need to beat Trump, that's priority number 1. This is not something to mess with, the Trump possible presidency. There's two candidates now, Trump and Hillary. I can't figure why Bernie can't endorse Hillary in that race.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)The party platform, then you don't understand the process.
Btw..."making Trump more likely to be president" is complete hogwash.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)And, yeah, if he doesn't come around one of these days soon, he is making Trump more likely to be president.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,163 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,163 posts)or so some fools on your side claim........
Que Sera, Sera.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Seriously. You must not have any faith in the candidate you support if you believe that Bernie will cause Trump to win. Especially since you have said here repeatedly that Bernie Sanders has no power to do anything. There are no exceptions. You either believe he has power or he doesn't. So which is it?
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)tecelote
(5,122 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)And he's doing a bang-up job of it.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)insane by the fact that he seems to be pretty happy helping Trump. And for good reason. Do you know about Trump? Do I need to explain Trump to you?
Response to YouDig (Reply #4)
Post removed
YouDig
(2,280 posts)-none
(1,884 posts)You must be thinking of Hillary.
Sanders is helping the rest of us, the 99% by dragging the party back to the Left where belongs.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)-none
(1,884 posts)He is more Liberal than Hillary, so why would he helping Trump?
YouDig
(2,280 posts)-none
(1,884 posts)After that, then it is over.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)-none
(1,884 posts)BBG
(2,476 posts)... And don't call me yo.
liberal from boston
(856 posts)cherokeeprogressive So True!!!
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)If you really want to look at ego, look at your own candidate. Bernie knows that this movement
is not about him. It's about the ideas he espouses. For HRC, it's definitely all about her.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)My candidate won the primary. She wants to become president and bring forth progressive changes for the nation. And she wants to prevent Trump from being president.
What does Bernie want at this point, other than self-glorification?
panader0
(25,816 posts)Why does that simple point seem so hard for you to understand?
YouDig
(2,280 posts)The party is made up of the people in it. Right now, he's pissing off those people. He's already got Cornel West on the platform committee, which makes no real difference because the platform is a piece of paper that nobody cares about.
The Democrats in government are going to be the same people after Bernie's little stunt. And the Democratic voters are also. Just give me one plausible scenario of how he changes the direction of the party by not endorsing Hillary.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,163 posts)Keep driving that wedge, because when you come running for help later there may be no one to answer the door.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)It's over for the Bern. He won't be president. Either he can get onboard and help destroy Trump, or he can go on an ego trip. I hope it's door number 1.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,163 posts)I think you'll be needing it.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Are you gleeful about the possibility that Bernie might be able to deliver the presidency to Trump?
TheCowsCameHome
(40,163 posts)Come on - just say it. I dare you.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)It would be great if Bernie would start working for the Dems. If he doesn't it will make Trump more likely. Either way, real progressives are going to do everything they can to prevent president Trump. Hopefully Bernie doesn't make Trump more likely. We'll see.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,163 posts)I expected it.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)ancianita
(35,816 posts)Berners with your faux concern.
I can quote everything you said back then. Maybe everybody should see how you keep up this faux theater.
Seriously. Knock it off.
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)He doesn't...concede Bernie ASAP.
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)making sure that the numbers and the energy and the POV is not forgotten. He is keeping his mandate as long as he can to effectuate as much positive change as he can.
Anybody should be able to understand this. Anybody but those anxious about Hillary's weaknesses and eager to try to putty them over.
He's just not an easy pushover, like most of the Progressive hippy types that New Dems like to bash so much.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)any kind of policy change that he wants?
jehop61
(1,735 posts)attention, Bernie has been forgotten....he's lost and no one cares what he does next. Looks like his stubbornness is only noticed by the Bernie diehards here in DU. Go back to the Senate, Bernie and do the job your being paid to do..
ancianita
(35,816 posts)Bernie Sanders and his supporters want the Democratic Party restructured to be a bigger tent. He wants governance for the 99% prioritized over its previous governance for the 1%
1. To do that, they've got to get rid of the chair, who we all know is a progressive cock blocker.
2.. Berners want restructured party platform to set progressive goals and remove pro-corporate goals.
3. To get Hillary to actually lay out a progressive agenda during her campaign.
4. To get Hillary to pledge NOT to end or sign any legislation that rescinds any current social safety net programs for Americans -- Social Security, etc.
6. To get Hillary to pledge to have the party monetarily support new progressives trying to enter national party politics -- finally.
7. To put progressives into whip positions within Congress, whether or not downticket wins get us a majority, which they should.
If Hillary and the party structurally and policy-wise swing Left, he'll endorse her.
Otherwise all she can expect to get is his help on the stump against Trump.
There's a lot to say about why Hillary doesn't deserve a sit down with him, but because he and Berners know it's not about him, we'll set that aside.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Did she not win the primary?
This is like bizarro-world.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)Hillary supporters do not do any favors for their candidate or themselves by calling this sit down all about Bernie's "ego."
Hillers do her no favors to constantly snipe about how media don't care about him anymore. All this snide shade casting upon a fellow Democrat who has won many states and millions of votes.
Hillers do her and themselves no favors when they act as if he doesn't deserve a sit down when they well know that she needs as many voters to stay in this party for the General as possible.
Remember: these two are doing what's best. It's best for Hill to work out party changes for the betterment of the party and governance.
It's the Hillers who think that blowing out the Berner candle will maker hers/theirs shine brighter.
As Hillers keep up the huff, disdain and faux outreach, all they do is make the necessary party unification harder than it has to be.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Of course Hillary needs support from the people who supported Bernie in the primary. Forget about the people who say those ridiculous things that you just listed. Focus on the ones who are reaching out and doing their best to try to persuade all comers to work towards ensuring that we have a Democrat in The White House.
As far as I'm concerned, a strong alliance between Bernie Sanders supporters and Hillary Clinton supporters is absolutely essential, and I think both sides ought to do everything they can to help forge such an alliance.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)And I understand your reaction to them.
Personally, I wish Bernie and Hillary would've emerged from the meeting more in sync with one another, but perhaps that will happen in the weeks to come as their teams work together on various platform positions.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)ancianita
(35,816 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)ancianita
(35,816 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,163 posts)Only a fool burns bridges before they get to them.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)ancianita
(35,816 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)ancianita
(35,816 posts)Go back to your previous week's posts. Go back to the DU Berners' posts.
Try to make an effort instead of empty posting.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Hmm, progressives feel frustrated with Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, but calling her a cock blocker? This is some fucking bullshit.
ancianita
(35,816 posts)George Eliot
(701 posts)I don't think he will. But he doesn't owe the DNC or Clinton a single thing. And he doesn't owe those who didn't vote for him anything either. He brought us new thinking and new voters.They may stay or they may not. That's their choice as well.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)ancianita
(35,816 posts)George Eliot
(701 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)now it's up to her and her machine to win in Nov. - that's how it works.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)George Eliot
(701 posts)Please don't come pleading now for his help. The establishment and voters chose her ideas over his. I accept that. Now, she has to finish the sale.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)If you really wanted an explanation, you would have been listening all this time. I don't believe that is your goal.
840high
(17,196 posts)been answered many times.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)failed in Congress. He accomplished nothing there, and this stunt, when it withers, is just going to make him more bitter than ever.
SirBrockington
(259 posts)Bingo
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)The good Sanders could do is being rapidly eclipsed by the monumental ineptitude of Candidate Trump.
George Eliot
(701 posts)The establishment sold her to the American People. It will be on them. And all the pleading and complaining doesn't mean jack frost to me. Having said that, the establishment in this country including the Clintons will do just fine. For me, as an anti-establishment voter, what will be, will be. As Clinton voters keep saying, she was the will of the people. Now close the sale.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)I find that really sad. BUT it explains all of your hateful posts directed at him.
Have you ever heard of FDR?
Just curious.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)Bernie promised his supporters to stay in until the convention, so he is staying in. He's keeping his promise. It's that simple.
Z
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)HRC supporters on DU are out to belittle / diminish Bernie, this post is an example of that
Avalux
(35,015 posts)But my opinion?
There are some people in this world who do things for the bigger picture, for the good of all. They are few and far between.
If you look at Bernie's political history, he has CONSISTENTLY been on the side of the people, fighting for us at every turn (I just saw a post about his 8 hour filibuster in 2010). It seems to me that Bernie's decisions are selfless, and even though he will not be the Democratic nominee, it doesn't mean he's going to stop fighting and fade into the background. He will continue to do what he's always done.
It seems as if your assertion that Bernie is helping Trump become president is stemming from fear within yourself.
I gave that fear crap up a long time ago.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)How does him holding out right now make anything better for anyone?
Maybe he just likes giving angry speeches. If you look at his political history, he really hasn't gotten much done. That filibuster, for example, the bill got passed anyway. Maybe he likes "fighting" more than he actually likes results.
As for fear, yeah I'm scared of a Trump presidency. A lot of people around the world are, and for good reason.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Shorter versions can also be found on protest signs, if the official platform is too complicated.