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YouDig

(2,280 posts)
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:19 PM Jun 2016

If it's not ego, then what is Bernie doing?

Let's deal in facts. He's not going to be the nominee. He's not going to get his single payer. Holding out his endorsement is going to accomplish absolutely nothing in terms of policy changes of the US government. Nothing. Period. He has no actual power to change policy in the progressive direction. The only power he has is to help Trump become president. That's it.

He can make some of his angry supporters happy by giving the finger to the Democratic Party. But that doesn't actually make life better for the 99% or accomplish anything in terms of policy change besides making Trump more likely to be president. Is that what he wants? Does he want to give a big FU to the Democrats, and is willing to risk Trump in order to do so?

Someone explain please. What is he thinking?

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If it's not ego, then what is Bernie doing? (Original Post) YouDig Jun 2016 OP
He's moving us back to the left where we belong. tecelote Jun 2016 #1
How is he doing that? In a real concrete way, what "movement" is he making. YouDig Jun 2016 #3
You see what you want to see. It's a common affliction. But facts matter. tecelote Jun 2016 #16
That's in the past, before he lost. What's the point now? He's already lost. YouDig Jun 2016 #19
Yes I do. tecelote Jun 2016 #23
I think we should move left too. Believe it or not. YouDig Jun 2016 #25
If you believe he doesn't have any power to move... tex-wyo-dem Jun 2016 #54
The platform is a meaningless piece of paper. YouDig Jun 2016 #58
Hogwash...on both of your points nt tex-wyo-dem Jun 2016 #61
You sound worried. TheCowsCameHome Jun 2016 #62
I'm worried that Trump might win. You? You don't seem to care. Hmm. YouDig Jun 2016 #73
Not to worry, she's got it in the bag TheCowsCameHome Jun 2016 #75
He's making a bowel movement. OK? notadmblnd Jun 2016 #77
We're already on the left. And his current actions aren't doing anything to move the party. -nt- Lord Magus Jun 2016 #14
Ditto above. Links above. tecelote Jun 2016 #18
Then your "left" is no different than what Nixon was as President. nt Dawgs Jun 2016 #88
He's thinking "There are DUers I can be driving totally insane right now..." cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #2
Yeah, pretty much. In a larger sense. Also non-DUers. Democrats in general are being driven YouDig Jun 2016 #4
Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #8
That's just a personal snipe. Who cares when I joined? I'm still an American and a Democrat. YouDig Jun 2016 #10
Sanders is not helping Trump. -none Jun 2016 #13
What are you talking about? Hillary is the one person standing between us and Trump. YouDig Jun 2016 #17
Why isn't Sanders standing between us and Trump? -none Jun 2016 #24
Because he lost the primary. YouDig Jun 2016 #26
The democratic convention has not happened yet. -none Jun 2016 #27
Serious? It's over, yo. She got more votes. By a lot. YouDig Jun 2016 #29
Yes, seriously. -none Jun 2016 #30
Yes, it's serious... BBG Jun 2016 #85
.that^ 840high Jun 2016 #69
Senator Sanders liberal from boston Jun 2016 #60
.... notadmblnd Jun 2016 #78
"ego" is the Broccoli message lately. panader0 Jun 2016 #5
You ducked the question. What is he trying to accomplish? YouDig Jun 2016 #7
He wants to influence the direction of the party. panader0 Jun 2016 #12
How is he going to do that by not endorsing Hillary? It's totally illogical. YouDig Jun 2016 #15
The only pissing off is being done by the Hillbullies. TheCowsCameHome Jun 2016 #20
What are "Hillbullies"? I believe in Democracy, and Hillary got a lot more votes. YouDig Jun 2016 #21
Good luck going it alone. TheCowsCameHome Jun 2016 #34
How am I alone? I'm with the majority of Dems and, also, the majority of Americans. YouDig Jun 2016 #38
Are you saying you don't need Sanders supporters this November? TheCowsCameHome Jun 2016 #49
We need the majority of voters. Every voter counts the same. YouDig Jun 2016 #53
Nice dodge. TheCowsCameHome Jun 2016 #57
Nice dodge. I didn't expect it, I gave you benefit of doubt. Oops. YouDig Jun 2016 #59
It's called politics AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #51
No. YOU are ducking our answers. YOU. YOU had this convo a week ago and STILL want to stalk ancianita Jun 2016 #41
She won...she deserves to move on Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #9
It is his giant ego...that won't allow him to admit he lost...bitter and angry. Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #6
He is representing the voice of 45% of Democratic primary voters, who all of you dismiss. He is highprincipleswork Jun 2016 #11
No, no. I'm asking for a concrete answer. How does he think this stunt will bring about YouDig Jun 2016 #28
Judging from media jehop61 Jun 2016 #22
There you go again. You keep asking this, and we keep telling you. ancianita Jun 2016 #31
Hillary doesn't deserve a sit down with him? oberliner Jun 2016 #32
Bizarro? I think it's bizarro for any Hiller to say she doesn't need ours or his support. ancianita Jun 2016 #35
Anyone who says that is also in bizarro world oberliner Jun 2016 #45
"Ego" is in the OP title. Thanks for your understanding. I'm all about the forging process. ancianita Jun 2016 #46
Yes, there are certainly posts of that nature oberliner Jun 2016 #48
Do you realize that Bernie lost? By a lot? YouDig Jun 2016 #33
Nope. Got 40% of the Democratic vote. A sizable -- sizable -- vote. Attention will be paid. ancianita Jun 2016 #36
In other words, Bernie lost. YouDig Jun 2016 #40
BUT NOT DROP OUT AND SLINK AWAY LOST. And you very well know why. ancianita Jun 2016 #42
So, has Hillary won the GE yet? TheCowsCameHome Jun 2016 #37
No, just the primary. Which Bernie lost. YouDig Jun 2016 #39
You can say that as many times as your stalking drives you, but Bernie won the debate. Hill knows it ancianita Jun 2016 #43
How did Bernie win "the debate"? What "debate"? YouDig Jun 2016 #44
Hillary will tell you. Berners have all told you. The media have told you. I have told you. ancianita Jun 2016 #52
As I can tell, H won the debate by, you know, getting far more votes than B. YMMV YouDig Jun 2016 #56
"There you go again." Channeling Reagan today, are we? anigbrowl Jun 2016 #66
Interpreting and then outraging over words. Now we know you like DWS. Why do you like her? ancianita Jun 2016 #70
He doesn't owe anybody anything. He ran a good primary. If he walked away now, it's his choice. George Eliot Jun 2016 #47
It's not a "debt." It's just whether he cares about defeating Trump. Does he? Who knows. YouDig Jun 2016 #50
It's NOT just about defeating Trump. IT'S ABOUT THE IDEAS THAT WILL DEFEAT TRUMP. ancianita Jun 2016 #55
Defeating Trump isn't his job. It is the job of Hillary Clinton and her machine. She's the nominee. George Eliot Jun 2016 #64
Oh yeah. "Not my job". Real courage there. Real principle in action. My god. YouDig Jun 2016 #68
As you keep saying - she won 840high Jun 2016 #71
And Bernie can be a force for good or a force for bad. We'll see. YouDig Jun 2016 #74
Or he can choose not to be a force at all. His choice. As some keep saying, he was defeated. George Eliot Jun 2016 #81
I doubt the sincerity of your question MrMickeysMom Jun 2016 #63
Especially since his question has 840high Jun 2016 #72
This is his basic MO since he got into politics. It's going to fail at this level the same as it BobbyDrake Jun 2016 #65
"He can make some of his angry supporters happy by giving the finger to the Democratic Party" SirBrockington Jun 2016 #67
Hubris Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #76
IMO,she'll clearly win.If she doesn't,the establishment will have some serious self-reflection George Eliot Jun 2016 #82
Setting your hair on fire AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #79
When you post crap like this it is extremely obvious that you have no clue on what Bernie is about. jillan Jun 2016 #80
He's a man of his word. zalinda Jun 2016 #83
you, like Flakey Foont, will never understand. hobbit709 Jun 2016 #84
What answer would satisfy any HRC supporter in regards to this question asked? HumanityExperiment Jun 2016 #86
I don't know what he's thinking, obviously, no one does. Avalux Jun 2016 #87
That doesn't seem to be consistent with his actions these days. YouDig Jun 2016 #90
Details are available at his web site. Orsino Jun 2016 #89

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
3. How is he doing that? In a real concrete way, what "movement" is he making.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:22 PM
Jun 2016

He's not. He lost, he can't move anything anywhere anymore. He can only move us in the Trump direction.

I'm sure he's making some people happy by still talking his talk, but that doesn't "move" anything. It's just him preaching to his choir. It changes nothing.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
19. That's in the past, before he lost. What's the point now? He's already lost.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:35 PM
Jun 2016

All he can do is help Trump and piss Dems off. Do you really think that Democrats in government are going to govern differently because of anything Bernie does in the next month?

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
23. Yes I do.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:41 PM
Jun 2016

I guess we just disagree. I think we need to move to the left. Bernie is keeping the conversation where it needs to be.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
25. I think we should move left too. Believe it or not.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:43 PM
Jun 2016

But, shit, we need to beat Trump, that's priority number 1. This is not something to mess with, the Trump possible presidency. There's two candidates now, Trump and Hillary. I can't figure why Bernie can't endorse Hillary in that race.

tex-wyo-dem

(3,190 posts)
54. If you believe he doesn't have any power to move...
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:21 PM
Jun 2016

The party platform, then you don't understand the process.

Btw..."making Trump more likely to be president" is complete hogwash.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
58. The platform is a meaningless piece of paper.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:24 PM
Jun 2016

And, yeah, if he doesn't come around one of these days soon, he is making Trump more likely to be president.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
77. He's making a bowel movement. OK?
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 08:22 PM
Jun 2016

Seriously. You must not have any faith in the candidate you support if you believe that Bernie will cause Trump to win. Especially since you have said here repeatedly that Bernie Sanders has no power to do anything. There are no exceptions. You either believe he has power or he doesn't. So which is it?

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
2. He's thinking "There are DUers I can be driving totally insane right now..."
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:21 PM
Jun 2016

And he's doing a bang-up job of it.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
4. Yeah, pretty much. In a larger sense. Also non-DUers. Democrats in general are being driven
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:23 PM
Jun 2016

insane by the fact that he seems to be pretty happy helping Trump. And for good reason. Do you know about Trump? Do I need to explain Trump to you?

Response to YouDig (Reply #4)

-none

(1,884 posts)
13. Sanders is not helping Trump.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:29 PM
Jun 2016

You must be thinking of Hillary.
Sanders is helping the rest of us, the 99% by dragging the party back to the Left where belongs.

-none

(1,884 posts)
24. Why isn't Sanders standing between us and Trump?
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:42 PM
Jun 2016

He is more Liberal than Hillary, so why would he helping Trump?

panader0

(25,816 posts)
5. "ego" is the Broccoli message lately.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:25 PM
Jun 2016

If you really want to look at ego, look at your own candidate. Bernie knows that this movement
is not about him. It's about the ideas he espouses. For HRC, it's definitely all about her.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
7. You ducked the question. What is he trying to accomplish?
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:27 PM
Jun 2016

My candidate won the primary. She wants to become president and bring forth progressive changes for the nation. And she wants to prevent Trump from being president.

What does Bernie want at this point, other than self-glorification?

panader0

(25,816 posts)
12. He wants to influence the direction of the party.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:28 PM
Jun 2016

Why does that simple point seem so hard for you to understand?

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
15. How is he going to do that by not endorsing Hillary? It's totally illogical.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:31 PM
Jun 2016

The party is made up of the people in it. Right now, he's pissing off those people. He's already got Cornel West on the platform committee, which makes no real difference because the platform is a piece of paper that nobody cares about.

The Democrats in government are going to be the same people after Bernie's little stunt. And the Democratic voters are also. Just give me one plausible scenario of how he changes the direction of the party by not endorsing Hillary.

TheCowsCameHome

(40,163 posts)
20. The only pissing off is being done by the Hillbullies.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:39 PM
Jun 2016

Keep driving that wedge, because when you come running for help later there may be no one to answer the door.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
21. What are "Hillbullies"? I believe in Democracy, and Hillary got a lot more votes.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:40 PM
Jun 2016

It's over for the Bern. He won't be president. Either he can get onboard and help destroy Trump, or he can go on an ego trip. I hope it's door number 1.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
38. How am I alone? I'm with the majority of Dems and, also, the majority of Americans.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:01 PM
Jun 2016

Are you gleeful about the possibility that Bernie might be able to deliver the presidency to Trump?

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
53. We need the majority of voters. Every voter counts the same.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:20 PM
Jun 2016

It would be great if Bernie would start working for the Dems. If he doesn't it will make Trump more likely. Either way, real progressives are going to do everything they can to prevent president Trump. Hopefully Bernie doesn't make Trump more likely. We'll see.

ancianita

(35,816 posts)
41. No. YOU are ducking our answers. YOU. YOU had this convo a week ago and STILL want to stalk
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:05 PM
Jun 2016

Berners with your faux concern.

I can quote everything you said back then. Maybe everybody should see how you keep up this faux theater.

Seriously. Knock it off.

 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
11. He is representing the voice of 45% of Democratic primary voters, who all of you dismiss. He is
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:28 PM
Jun 2016

making sure that the numbers and the energy and the POV is not forgotten. He is keeping his mandate as long as he can to effectuate as much positive change as he can.

Anybody should be able to understand this. Anybody but those anxious about Hillary's weaknesses and eager to try to putty them over.

He's just not an easy pushover, like most of the Progressive hippy types that New Dems like to bash so much.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
28. No, no. I'm asking for a concrete answer. How does he think this stunt will bring about
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:46 PM
Jun 2016

any kind of policy change that he wants?

jehop61

(1,735 posts)
22. Judging from media
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:41 PM
Jun 2016

attention, Bernie has been forgotten....he's lost and no one cares what he does next. Looks like his stubbornness is only noticed by the Bernie diehards here in DU. Go back to the Senate, Bernie and do the job your being paid to do..

ancianita

(35,816 posts)
31. There you go again. You keep asking this, and we keep telling you.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:48 PM
Jun 2016

Bernie Sanders and his supporters want the Democratic Party restructured to be a bigger tent. He wants governance for the 99% prioritized over its previous governance for the 1%

1. To do that, they've got to get rid of the chair, who we all know is a progressive cock blocker.

2.. Berners want restructured party platform to set progressive goals and remove pro-corporate goals.

3. To get Hillary to actually lay out a progressive agenda during her campaign.

4. To get Hillary to pledge NOT to end or sign any legislation that rescinds any current social safety net programs for Americans -- Social Security, etc.

6. To get Hillary to pledge to have the party monetarily support new progressives trying to enter national party politics -- finally.

7. To put progressives into whip positions within Congress, whether or not downticket wins get us a majority, which they should.

If Hillary and the party structurally and policy-wise swing Left, he'll endorse her.

Otherwise all she can expect to get is his help on the stump against Trump.

There's a lot to say about why Hillary doesn't deserve a sit down with him, but because he and Berners know it's not about him, we'll set that aside.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
32. Hillary doesn't deserve a sit down with him?
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:49 PM
Jun 2016

Did she not win the primary?

This is like bizarro-world.

ancianita

(35,816 posts)
35. Bizarro? I think it's bizarro for any Hiller to say she doesn't need ours or his support.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:59 PM
Jun 2016

Hillary supporters do not do any favors for their candidate or themselves by calling this sit down all about Bernie's "ego."

Hillers do her no favors to constantly snipe about how media don't care about him anymore. All this snide shade casting upon a fellow Democrat who has won many states and millions of votes.

Hillers do her and themselves no favors when they act as if he doesn't deserve a sit down when they well know that she needs as many voters to stay in this party for the General as possible.

Remember: these two are doing what's best. It's best for Hill to work out party changes for the betterment of the party and governance.

It's the Hillers who think that blowing out the Berner candle will maker hers/theirs shine brighter.

As Hillers keep up the huff, disdain and faux outreach, all they do is make the necessary party unification harder than it has to be.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
45. Anyone who says that is also in bizarro world
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:09 PM
Jun 2016

Of course Hillary needs support from the people who supported Bernie in the primary. Forget about the people who say those ridiculous things that you just listed. Focus on the ones who are reaching out and doing their best to try to persuade all comers to work towards ensuring that we have a Democrat in The White House.

As far as I'm concerned, a strong alliance between Bernie Sanders supporters and Hillary Clinton supporters is absolutely essential, and I think both sides ought to do everything they can to help forge such an alliance.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
48. Yes, there are certainly posts of that nature
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:17 PM
Jun 2016

And I understand your reaction to them.

Personally, I wish Bernie and Hillary would've emerged from the meeting more in sync with one another, but perhaps that will happen in the weeks to come as their teams work together on various platform positions.

ancianita

(35,816 posts)
43. You can say that as many times as your stalking drives you, but Bernie won the debate. Hill knows it
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:07 PM
Jun 2016

ancianita

(35,816 posts)
52. Hillary will tell you. Berners have all told you. The media have told you. I have told you.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:20 PM
Jun 2016

Go back to your previous week's posts. Go back to the DU Berners' posts.

Try to make an effort instead of empty posting.

 

anigbrowl

(13,889 posts)
66. "There you go again." Channeling Reagan today, are we?
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:40 PM
Jun 2016
1. To do that, they've got to get rid of the chair, who we all know is a progressive cock blocker.

Hmm, progressives feel frustrated with Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, but calling her a cock blocker? This is some fucking bullshit.

George Eliot

(701 posts)
47. He doesn't owe anybody anything. He ran a good primary. If he walked away now, it's his choice.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:16 PM
Jun 2016

I don't think he will. But he doesn't owe the DNC or Clinton a single thing. And he doesn't owe those who didn't vote for him anything either. He brought us new thinking and new voters.They may stay or they may not. That's their choice as well.

 

840high

(17,196 posts)
71. As you keep saying - she won
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:49 PM
Jun 2016

now it's up to her and her machine to win in Nov. - that's how it works.

George Eliot

(701 posts)
81. Or he can choose not to be a force at all. His choice. As some keep saying, he was defeated.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 08:55 PM
Jun 2016

Please don't come pleading now for his help. The establishment and voters chose her ideas over his. I accept that. Now, she has to finish the sale.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
63. I doubt the sincerity of your question
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:33 PM
Jun 2016

If you really wanted an explanation, you would have been listening all this time. I don't believe that is your goal.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
65. This is his basic MO since he got into politics. It's going to fail at this level the same as it
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:37 PM
Jun 2016

failed in Congress. He accomplished nothing there, and this stunt, when it withers, is just going to make him more bitter than ever.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
76. Hubris
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 08:10 PM
Jun 2016

The good Sanders could do is being rapidly eclipsed by the monumental ineptitude of Candidate Trump.

George Eliot

(701 posts)
82. IMO,she'll clearly win.If she doesn't,the establishment will have some serious self-reflection
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 09:06 PM
Jun 2016

The establishment sold her to the American People. It will be on them. And all the pleading and complaining doesn't mean jack frost to me. Having said that, the establishment in this country including the Clintons will do just fine. For me, as an anti-establishment voter, what will be, will be. As Clinton voters keep saying, she was the will of the people. Now close the sale.

jillan

(39,451 posts)
80. When you post crap like this it is extremely obvious that you have no clue on what Bernie is about.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 08:37 PM
Jun 2016

I find that really sad. BUT it explains all of your hateful posts directed at him.

Have you ever heard of FDR?
Just curious.

zalinda

(5,621 posts)
83. He's a man of his word.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 09:55 AM
Jun 2016

Bernie promised his supporters to stay in until the convention, so he is staying in. He's keeping his promise. It's that simple.

Z

 

HumanityExperiment

(1,442 posts)
86. What answer would satisfy any HRC supporter in regards to this question asked?
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 10:04 AM
Jun 2016

HRC supporters on DU are out to belittle / diminish Bernie, this post is an example of that

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
87. I don't know what he's thinking, obviously, no one does.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 10:43 AM
Jun 2016

But my opinion?

There are some people in this world who do things for the bigger picture, for the good of all. They are few and far between.

If you look at Bernie's political history, he has CONSISTENTLY been on the side of the people, fighting for us at every turn (I just saw a post about his 8 hour filibuster in 2010). It seems to me that Bernie's decisions are selfless, and even though he will not be the Democratic nominee, it doesn't mean he's going to stop fighting and fade into the background. He will continue to do what he's always done.

It seems as if your assertion that Bernie is helping Trump become president is stemming from fear within yourself.

I gave that fear crap up a long time ago.


YouDig

(2,280 posts)
90. That doesn't seem to be consistent with his actions these days.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 02:06 PM
Jun 2016

How does him holding out right now make anything better for anyone?

Maybe he just likes giving angry speeches. If you look at his political history, he really hasn't gotten much done. That filibuster, for example, the bill got passed anyway. Maybe he likes "fighting" more than he actually likes results.

As for fear, yeah I'm scared of a Trump presidency. A lot of people around the world are, and for good reason.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
89. Details are available at his web site.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 01:26 PM
Jun 2016

Shorter versions can also be found on protest signs, if the official platform is too complicated.

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