2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie still sees Democrats as the adversary.
He comes off like he barely tolerates Democrats only because the other party is so horrible. This is basically a team sport.. he needs to pick a team and support it or else he is going to do more harm than good.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He never fights Republicans that hard. Glad we did NOT nominate him
DCBob
(24,689 posts)pathetic.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)He is trying to reinvigorate the political system by encouraging people to get involved.
I don't know why people would have a problem with that, unless you want a moribund r political party that never changes or adapts and has no core principles..
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Its time to endorse Hillary and attack Trump.
He is attacking Trump and from what I've seen people have felt invigorated by the primary.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)The major political task that we face in the next five months is to make certain that Donald Trump is defeated and defeated badly. And I personally intend to begin my role in that process in a very short period of time.
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)booley
(3,855 posts)And how has he driven them away?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)He's basically doing what he has done through the campaign, which worked pretty well. He is pushing to represent the values and goals he expressed.
He's not out there attacking Clinton. He said he "knows the math" and he said his main focus is on defeating Trump.
At some point in the near future he will say the actual words "I support Secretary Clinton for President." Maybe that will placate make people who think the Kabuki Dance is important.
But he is also focused on the goals he said he would focus on when he started out. He -- and WE -- are nervous that those will be stifled in the "unity" of the party -- He does not want to see them tucked away in the closet again, and neither do the millions who support him.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)That said, I think his message his message would resonate more with the party elite if he was a democratic for a longer period of time longer.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Hey, Brave - serious question, not snark.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Especially the parts who did not vote for him. The parts he thinks are too conservative or 'confederate' as some called it. I noticed he wants to end closed primaries because they keep folks out but has no problem with caucuses, which are the most disenfranchising process, and my demographic is hardly represented there at all. But we show up in FORCE to those closed primaries he hates.
He wants to dilute the power of the groups that did not vote for him. This is not about the party.
I know exactly what this is because it is aimed at folks like me who prefer for Democrats to pick our own nominee free from republican hijinks or independent swing voters games.
Whose power would be blunted in the democratic party if we do as he wants? I'm not psychic but my predictions are spot the hell on. I am not in love with either candidate or their policies. But I knew from jump that he lacked a black pov on his team to tell him how bad this shit sounds to us. We know the little ways folks use to quiet our voices. Regardless of his intentions that will be the effect. Intentions mean jack to me.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Gotta sleep now, but love and respect you lots. Reply in the AM.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)As I've always said, I wish you had the ear of Team Bernie.
dubyadiprecession
(5,702 posts)They might be the same person wearing different costumes, but with each character still acting as outrageous as the other.
booley
(3,855 posts)Becuase I recall seeing a nice pic of Trump and the Clintons being VERY friendly with each other.
BTW I am finding it a bit ironic that you call Sander's "outrageous" and have FDR as your avatar
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Response to geek tragedy (Reply #3)
Post removed
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Just because he is not kissing her ring, doesn't mean he is not going to work as hard as he can to support her election.
This doesn't sound like "lip service." It's not sycophancy, but so what? The message is quite clear.
The major political task that we face in the next five months is to make certain that Donald Trump is defeated and defeated badly. And I personally intend to begin my role in that process in a very short period of time.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Seems fair.
Progressives and moderates and in-between work together all the time.
TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)booley
(3,855 posts)Social Security was pretty radical and opposed by Conservatives
as was Medicare.
And breaking up the trusts. And about fifty other Democratic accomplishments I could name
the ACA itself was considered impossible by conservatives. )or did you forget that 34 democrats voted against it?)
Sorry, but if we listened to conservatives over what was "doable" the Democrats wouldn't have a single major accomplishment to their name.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)And he "worked together" with republicans to get fast track trade authority.
There is always someone to be found who will "work together" with their oppressors.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Thank you for proving my point.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)I'm starting to think your posts are intended as satire.
Response to arcane1 (Reply #24)
Post removed
arcane1
(38,613 posts)And every time, acting like it's something clever.
Most adults see through it.
LuvLoogie
(6,971 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I distinctly recall that being shut out from the git go. Even as a consideration.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)But that doesn't mean it should have been preemptively taken off the table.
One never knows.
Bernie's good proof of that.
Response to arcane1 (Reply #16)
Name removed Message auto-removed
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)for the general election.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I notice the AFL-CIO took its sweet time. And I sure don't blame them for endorsing her over Trump, needless, I hope, to say.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)for the general election campaign.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)What other realistic choice do they have? I thank them.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)I realize that may seem adversarial if you feel entitled to the entire party, though.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I don't know why those terms bother people and make them feel excluded
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)Bernie is not doing what you want him to and when you want him to do it, and how you want him to do it. TRAGIC!
SERIOUSLY, it's like one big fucking overgrown high school here, and the pompons and cheerleaders are just aghast that someone is not supporting the football team like they think they should.
There are Clinton posters on this board who seem to make it their personal calling in life to make sure everyone does exactly what THEY think should be done. This isn't Lockstep High School.
BootinUp
(47,135 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)Its time to unite and work together to defeat the GOP.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I'm still disgusted/amused at how they try to pretend Trump is not exactly what they wrought.
Mmmmm, but - I don't see how "what Bernie is promoting" is not that - defeating the GOP.
TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)And you folks looking at it as a sport is no small part of the reason why.
BootinUp
(47,135 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)BootinUp
(47,135 posts)Losing the primary has shown the exact same thing.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Players have different strengths, and if your team is going to be successful, you make sure they're playing the right position. Bernie is fighting for the future of the team. That's a mighty important position. DCBob - you should go down to your local rec hall and sign up for the first team that will let you in.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)He seems to have no interest in being a team player.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)You'd probably get a time out for propagating that attitude. And then again, there's the coach here at DU, who could very well bench you on Monday.
randome
(34,845 posts)floppyboo
(2,461 posts)And not every sport is football.
randome
(34,845 posts)He's kind of been benched but he's too foolish to know that running onto the court and telling the referees how wrong they are is only going to delay the game.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)So stop your wining, get off that bench and make friends with your team - 45% of your team.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Don't think it needs to be courted? That's your and the DNC's problem.
randome
(34,845 posts)...then maybe you can listen with an open mind to what Clinton says in the next few weeks. It's up to you.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)That I try to make up my own mind objectively instead of allowing myself to be blown about by such (I perceive) as you.
I will say that if your objective is to sway me I think you could up your game. But please don't put yourself out on my account. Please.
randome
(34,845 posts)Please. I don't even like Clinton and have said that many times. I don't like the idea of a refugee from the 90s retaking the political helm. But she is clearly our nominee so we need to work with what we have. Just my opinion, of course.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Yes, of course I will listen with an open mind to probably our only hope.
I just hope she might listen to others who might help.
randome
(34,845 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Except it's morning now and drinking then is not to be encouraged. But you know what I mean!
treestar
(82,383 posts)why don't you just do what is in your best interests! Politics is not about people begging for your vote! They say what they stand for and you pick from among them accordingly.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)But I take into account how I am looked upon and treated, as I believe all human beings do.
I do try to not let it sway me against my best interests, but I am baffled as to why some people appear to think hectoring is a productive tactic.
onenote
(42,660 posts)But he doesn't win the job and instead of accepting his position as a role player who can help the team he sits on the bench being disruptive and badmouthing the manager, the player that beat him out and the fans
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Plus a six-month media blackout.
There's something that needs to be taken into consideration, IMHO.
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)but I can see how some could take it that way.
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)... player.
People might know there's something wrong but offering nothing in the area of doing better is bashing not... progressive
treestar
(82,383 posts)he's been criticizing the team.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)And that criticism is vital to keeping the team relevant for next season. Selling yourself to a richer owner, no matter how fancy they make the seats in the stadium, isn't going to ready the team for success in the box office with the new and upcoming fans. Hillary knows this. And as a progressive, I'd put some money down that she is relieved Bernie wants to get money out of politics. She assumedly has a big heart, and I'm sure all these $ games are getting her down.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)As long as its candidates keep cashing those big checks and giving passes to war, war crimes, massive financial fraud, etc, they are NOT on "our" team.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I get real tired of people asking for specific examples of (illegal) quid pro quo. Please.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)There is a system, and I believe that Bernie knows that where possible you work within it. I sure hope we're not at the point of having to blow it up.
RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)he's actually trying to help. but i'm sure it will be mostly falling on deaf ears, cause EVERYTHING is Peachy-keen, right? no problems here, just move along.
"But the political revolution means much more than fighting for our ideals at the Democratic National Convention and defeating Donald Trump.It means that, at every level, we continue the fight to make our society a nation of economic, social, racial and environmental justice."
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Hillary's won. Now its time to unite to defeat the other team who are fielding a madman as their candidate.
RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)but you wouldn't know that.....
it's bigger than an election or a 4 year term.
it's about working together for change.
"Election days come and go. But political and social revolutions that attempt to transform our society never end. They continue every day, every week and every month in the fight to create a nation of social and economic justice. Thats what the trade union movement is about. Thats what the civil rights movement is about. Thats what the womens movement is about. Thats what the gay rights movement is about. Thats what the environmental movement is about."
DCBob
(24,689 posts)There is no benefit to continuing his adversarial attitude.
RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)I feel that he is genuinely trying to help the middle class. there is plenty of room for help in DC.
Your candidate is the nominee.
Your candidate will most likely be President.
Don't you think we will need all the help we can get? the stronger the voice, the better for us.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)23 states and millions of votes. Given the support he got, especially among young people, didn't he earn the right to have a role going forward? Don't worry. He will endorse Hillary in due course. And who knows? Most campaigns have ups and downs and if Hillary's campaign has a down then Bernie could make a strategic endorsement at that time and give new life to Hillary's campaign.
randome
(34,845 posts)Sanders is coming off like a petulant child screaming at someone to take out the trash -while said person is taking out the trash! After a while, resentment is the natural reaction.
It's the same thing now as it has been for 25 years in the Senate: he talks and talks and talks...and has no strategy.
you didn't bother to listen to his speech or read the transcript didja?
and Oh, he has a strategy.
randome
(34,845 posts)And "Oh, he has a strategy", huh? What, pray tell, is it? To 'filibuster' his way to the nomination? 25 years in the Senate and his own co-workers won't endorse him!
And this crap about people 45 years and younger being the future of our nation? We are all the future of our nation! I don't understand this worship of youth some have. And I have two wonderful 18 year old daughters whose future I want to see brighter! It's not going to happen because of Sanders, that's for sure.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)www.berniesanders.com/win
As for the 25 years - if things change with money in politics, and the above strategy works - watch out for a strong revitalized Democratic Party in the next election! And yes, that is YOUR party!!! Happy happy love love.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 16, 2016, 10:32 PM - Edit history (2)
He comes off, IMHO, as he always has. Speaking the truth as he sees ir.
randome
(34,845 posts)Do you really think most Democrats don't want a more equitable society, economically and otherwise? Sanders is trying to 'convince' us of something we already believe.
Get shut of corporations then.
senz
(11,945 posts)Sorry. He didn't.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Elites of this country. He's on our team.
2banon
(7,321 posts)You didn't listen to a word of it. Particularly at the end.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)that Hillary Clinton will work with him to change the Democratic Party,
Sanders said he also looks forward to working with Clinton to "transform the Democratic Party" to make it a party for working people and young people that "has the guts" to take on Wall Street, the pharmaceutical industry, the fossil fuel industry and other powerful special interests that dominate political and economic life.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/16/bernie-sanders-livestream-supporters/86003384/
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I don't want "them" to shut him out, or he "them."
bunnies
(15,859 posts)The other party is so horrible".
And he's not the only one. That's the point.
mcar
(42,287 posts)I don't get the strategy. What is he hoping to gain with this tactic? I honestly don't get it.
WayBeyondBlue
(86 posts)Clinton really doesn't need Bernie or his supporters to beat Trump. She is conservative enough to attract MILLIONS of moderate Republicans unwilling to go Trump. She knows it, and Bernie knows it. But Bernie's platform is precious to him, and many others, so he will try to maintain as much apparent strength as possible to win points at the Dem Platform "negotiation". I think it's a smart way to play a weak hand.
mcar
(42,287 posts)Umm, OK. You do realize that she and Bernie voted together more than 90% of the time?
And, how does refusing to concede give him leverage at the convention? It really doesn't.
WayBeyondBlue
(86 posts)sadly enough. To untwist the spin you put on my words, I said "conservative enough", and stand by it. Not gonna argue about what shade of blue to pick for the window dressing.
TrueDemVA
(250 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:12 AM - Edit history (1)
Try to push aside Bernie and his message. The Democratic leadership has become a group of corporate lobbyist.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)pansypoo53219
(20,966 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Opening up to fresh new people.
How awful.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Until he does that I dont hear anything else he says.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...maybe tomorrow.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)What part of this do you not understand? Clinton is the only choice against Trump.
The major political task that we face in the next five months is to make certain that Donald Trump is defeated and defeated badly. And I personally intend to begin my role in that process in a very short period of time.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...he must fall to his knees and beg the Royal Family's forgiveness... HOW COULD HE? IT WAS HER TURN?
She has been the Presumptive Nominee for 20 years. How dare he?
<sarcasm>
randome
(34,845 posts)eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Autumn
(45,012 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)To this particular post, yup.
ETA: Not that I minded being kicked out. I was kicked out of the Hillary group (by my own request) as well. I frankly loathe both of them.
Autumn
(45,012 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I was blocked for expressing my distaste for excessive, IMHO counterproductive rah rah. It is what it is
Autumn
(45,012 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Paging bravenak!
I knew there was a good reason I abandoned the Bernie group early.
Autumn
(45,012 posts)will get you blocked Page bravenak all you want, that won't mean shit.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)And, as you point out, whatever it was was not in the Bernie group.
Nevertheless, sorry - shoulda gone to bed long before that series of posts and, as I said, I was happy to to be kicked out anyway.
Autumn
(45,012 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I didn't mean literally to bother you or put you on the spot - I meant that at least your responses are responsive. And I shoulda gone to bed long before that series of posts....!
Autumn
(45,012 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)And thanks again for kicking me out - it was sincerely appreciated.
booley
(3,855 posts)and without Schumer's support a few years ago Sanders would never have become a Senator
Weird how the Democrats and Sanders got along just fine until he ran against Clinton.
I have a crazy idea.
It's not Sanders
There's been a growing dissatisfaction within the Democrats for quite a while caused by the disconnect between what the party says it stands for and what it often does.
Gothmog
(145,046 posts)He is a bitter old man eho cannot accept that he lost
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)Bernie never saw the party as the adversary, hes P.O'd at the leadership under Wasserman-Schultz.
randome
(34,845 posts)That's been his nature all along. No one likes to be endlessly preached at.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)The only thing in the middle of the road are yellow lines and roadkill; and one is a bunch of nutjobs, and the other are clearly suicidal where policy is considered. I don't blame him.
GeorgeGist
(25,315 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)...and knows that many of them also own some Democrats.