Reaching out

[lapucelle]

I was a Clinton supporter in 2008. I remember my disappointment at the outcome of the primary and my anger at the process. (Entire states that favored Clinton were disenfranchised because they had broken scheduling rules.) However, most Clinton supporters rose above their raw emotions and cast their ballots for the Democratic nominee. For many it hurt to cast that vote, but it was the right thing to do.

It worries me that some of the Sanders partisans have taken the "Sanders or nobody" position. At that point, it becomes a cult of personality. In my opinion, when it's all about one particular person (rather than an agenda or a platform), we're in a danger zone.

I was a young mother when Reagan was elected and destroyed the middle class. My husband is a lucky 9/11 survivor who made it out of the towers alive despite G.W. Bush's willful ignorance of intelligence warning of an attack.

I know how dangerous a dangerous president can be.

Vote for the Democrat, vote Green, or write in Sanders's name if your state has that option. Any one of these choices would be "doing the right thing".

But please don't weaponize your vote by casting it for Trump. That is an indulgence that the country can ill afford.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. Good advice. I'll be voting for the candidate I prefer. It won't be Trump.

[Hoyt]

2. It's tough when your candidate loses a race. Fortunately, most come around after primary setback.

[SFnomad]

3. Back in 2008 the Clinton supporters had their equivalent to the BoB'ers ... the PUMAs

They sounded a lot like the BoB'ers of today ... they're warned us that we needed their votes, they warned us that Obama was the "weaker" candidate, that he would energize the racists in the Republican Party ... and that we wouldn't win without them.

In the end, the PUMAs weren't as powerful as they thought they were and they became irrelevant, we wasted a lot of time on them. The BoB'ers are going to end up just like the PUMAs.

[lapucelle]

4. In the beginning of the aftermath of the 2008 primaries, I was a PUMA.

We were also called "dead-enders" and "bitter knitters".

Shortly after the PUMA label became widely known, political analyst and Clinton supporter James Carville appeared on CNN in a pair of Puma sneakers.

[TwilightZone]

5. The vast majority also ended up voting for Obama.

I suspect this election may be similar. Hope so anyway.

[Tarc]

6. As I was a bit of a PUMA in 2008, I can speak on this tangent

We melted when she gave her concession speech and endorsed Obama, particularly;

Now, I understand -- I understand that we all know this has been a tough fight, but the Democratic Party is a family. And now it's time to restore the ties that bind us together and to come together around the ideals we share, the values we cherish, and the country we love.

We may have started on separate journeys, but today our paths have merged. And we're all heading toward the same destination, united and more ready than ever to win in November and to turn our country around, because so much is at stake

- http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/07/us/politics/07text-clinton.html

[SFnomad]

8. Yes, you are all correct ... most of the PUMAs did become Obama supporters ... her concession speech

did win over many of them. In the very end, the majority did vote for Obama ... and it's the remainder that I talk about being the ones that became immaterial.

Most of the Sanders supporters will become Clinton supporters, including many that have called themselves BoB'ers ... the small minority that won't, they will be the ones that will become immaterial this time around.

[treestar]

35. Hope so but then Bernie may not give such a concession speech

[DLCWIdem]

67. A similar gesture Might be?

Maybe a speech where he acknowledges that there has been no election fraud since that is mostly what Bob-bers claim. Its ridiculous I know maybe where he defines "rigged system" or something along those lines. If you look at his actual words he seems to be saying closed primaries and super delegates are the " rigged system. " In other words, the Democratic party rules.

[DLCWIdem]

54. I heard some of the PUMAs became tRump supporters and Birthers

I only hope the BoBs don't follow suit

[SFnomad]

68. Whould would a PUMA become a tRump supporter? That makes no sense at all

If they were a Senator Clinton supporter then, you would expect they'd be a Secretary Clinton supporter now. ... unless they were Republicans from the very beginning.

That some of them would have been Birthers would be believable ... for a few, the bitterness never ended.

[DLCWIdem]

70. a few became Birthers 8 years ago and went with Birtherism

[SFnomad]

71. That wouldn't necessarily make them a tRump supporter now

If they were Democrats back then and supported Clinton, you would expect they would support her again now. Of course, there are those that change from D->R or R->D .... but I would expect that number to not be that huge. You don't typically see a significant number of people switching parties ... more probably go from party to independent or independent to a party.

[DLCWIdem]

75. well they joined Trump and his birtherism but it was only a few

Another Hill supporter turned Trumpeteer would be Omarossa. Go figure I know its strange

[lapucelle]

93. Trump came into the whole birther movement late in the game.

I think it was well after the 2008 election.

[lapucelle]

92. And some went Tea Party.

For example, the Crawdad Hole was a pro-Hillary site to the point of PUMA in 2008 and then morphed into the right-wing site that it is today.

It still makes me wonder whether some of the posters/sites that shifted from Hillary to Tea Party weren't Republican based operations all along trying to stoke division.

[robbedvoter]

20. She did the heavy lifting for Obama then. Expected to do it again instead of Sanders

for some reason. 🍆?

[geek tragedy]

11. The actual Democratic BoBers are rare.

Most of the BoBers are Green Party/Nader types.

[SFnomad]

12. I'm sure quite a number of them around here are actually Republicans as well n/t

[NorthCarolina]

81. Right, because Sanders positions are so much closer to the GOP than Clinton's.

[SFnomad]

89. No, because probably some Republicans have come over here to cause dissention

by pretending to be either Sanders and/or Clinton supporters. Republicans have admitted to as much.

[joshcryer]

57. Yeah, Nader purists.

A lot of them probably did vote Obama in 2008, but they're low info, high rhetoric types, who actually didn't know shit about Obama's policy then. The only reason that they didn't vote Green was because 1) Obama was seen in their low info conspiracy minds as a harbinger of change and anti-establishment, and 2) Cynthia McKinney was the worst candidate the Greens could possibly run.

This is what the Naderite purists are: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002184082

[geek tragedy]

59. short memories as well, just like they had forgotten how bad Reagan was in 2000

they've forgotten how bad Bush was now.

[joshcryer]

60. Well, they had it good under Bush.

A lot of the yuppies made entire livings off of Bush's bullshit, too.

Some NGOs even openly admit that it'd be good for THEM if the Democrats lost, because they'd get more support and funding. It's beyond insane.

[geek tragedy]

62. Bush was good for the progressive entertainment complex just like Obama was great for the rightwing

entertainment complex.

anger and resentment are a lot more marketable than responsible governance

[pinebox]

21. Wrong.

So very wrong.

There is a huge difference between the 2; Obama and Hillary were quite close on policy, Bernie and Hillary are not. For the first time we have a generation voting who will make less than their parents and who is enslaved to student loan debt. The times have changed and so have the issues. Millions won't vote nor support more of the same. People are starting to fight against the status quo and stand up for themselves.

You can say "weaker candidate" but in reality, Bernie is stronger in a GE. We all know this. It is only among a Dem bubble of primary voters where Hillary is strongest. Us indy voters have no interest in joining your so called "party" who we see as corrupt and intentionally silences peoples votes with their closed primary system, where SD's pledged their allegiance to Hillary before Bernie even announced.

No, we don't. And you wonder why your party is bleeding members? We're not coming, we're already here and our time is now as boomers die out and us young wolves will fully own this country in 4 years straight away. We're already the largest voting block and we are solidly independent voters.

That's reality.

[SFnomad]

22. Go ahead, be a BoB'er ... be irrelevant ... I really don't care

And if you think you're going to "own this country" in 4 years, you people need to start voting ... and I really don't see that changing enough to make that much of a difference from today, at least not in 4 years.

[pinebox]

23. Who said I'm a BOB'er?

Can you show me where I said I was? Of course you can't.

We have people that vote but they aren't interested in joining "your party" and want nothing to do with it.

When you come crawling to us in a few weeks begging for our votes, keep in mind what I said. It isn't happening.

[Blue_Adept]

24. Everything you just wrote is pretty much BoB material

If it walks like a duck...

[pinebox]

78. Except I'm not

My vote is my own and I will vote for someone who represents me. Sorry that's hard to fathom.

[LoverOfLiberty]

27. If you have such disdain

for "the party" what are you doing on this site?

[pinebox]

80. Why are you here?

I guess you missed the whole "and other progressives" in the TOS didn't you or maybe how DU has a Socialist Progressives Group

Rather funny that the guy with "LoveOfLiberty" as a name suddenly wants to quell people. Go figure lol

[LoverOfLiberty]

84. I never said I wanted to "quell" anyone

Just wonder what you hope to accomplish by continually trashing our party.
Surely you can support your socialist progressive group without tearing down the rest of us?

[pinebox]

85. Many of us are indy libs

And we're fed up with things. That's rather obvious isn't it?

[LanternWaste]

73. It can indeed be difficult to show a thing which consistently cowers behind implication.

"Can you show me where I said I was? Of course you can't..."

It can indeed be difficult to show a thing which consistently cowers behind implication, regardless of second place's desire to see the winning team crawl.

[YouDig]

25. Every time it's "this time is different." It's not. Anger will fade, people come to their senses.

And anyone who can't tell that Hillary is a million times better than Trump never cared about policy in the first place.

[treestar]

37. Didn't they vote the same like 80% of the time?

This is getting very unreal. Who really believes that?

[blackspade]

34. There are still PUMAs.

Trying to drive Sanders supporters out of the party.

[SFnomad]

42. That makes no sense whatsoever

BoB'ers ... I could understand, but myself, I wouldn't agree with doing that either.

[blackspade]

88. Sure it does

There is a whole subset of Clinton supporters at DU who have no interest in party unity now or after the convention.
Their posts show up here daily.
Based on their posts they would be perfectly happy if the left of the Democratic party fucked off.
The PUMA moniker fits them just as well as in '08.

[SFnomad]

90. No, there isn't (or at least the number is few) ... but you believe what you want n/t

[peace13]

7. Cult of personality ....do explain.

I support Bernie. Only talk politics on DU and have been very disgusted with Clinton's activities before 2008 and certainly over the last eight years. I am of cult personality because I don't except certain qualities in a potential President? Or is it because the other three non supporters ( all non DUers) who I live with will not vote for Hill? Don't blame the voter for low integrity candidates.

[lapucelle]

9. I think you misunderstand me.

I thought I made myself pretty clear that the "cult of personality" voter is the voter for whom it is solely about one particular person rather than about the candidate's ideas.

And to be perfectly honest, it feels like you just slapped away my outstretched hand.

[peace13]

15. Not slapping your hand but your idea...

my problem with Clinton is the things that she has done. Her ideas about war and killing. Her support of the imprisonment of the Super Predator. Her talking out of both sides of her face. And basically, she is not truthful. I judge this by her real actions, by her words and votes. You see my problem is with her ideas. I am not alone in this thinking. Past records and word are real things , subject to scrutiny !

[MillennialDem]

55. It's not about Bernie. It's about his platform. I would just as easily vote for Warren or an AI with

Bernie's platform.

[LWolf]

10. It's not "Sanders or nobody."

It's "no neo-liberal, ever again."

I just wanted to nominate someone who is not a neo-liberal. Any Democrat who is not a neo-liberal would have done. I didn't think anybody would step up; I was relieved when Sanders did.

It's never been about Sanders. He has said that repeatedly.

It's not a cult of personality. It's issues. It's a steadfast determination to oppose neo-liberalism at every opportunity.

I would never, ever vote for Trump, and I have never voted for any Republican, at least, not that I know of. Some of the local non-partisan offices, where party registration is not given...a Republican might have gotten by me there, given that I've always lived in Republican strongholds.

[LoverOfLiberty]

28. We are sick and tired

of your damned "neo-liberal" "right-leaning" "corporatist", "republican-lite" labels.

Vote for who you damned well please.

[BigMin28]

74. +1000

[2banon]

13. No Worries! Hillary has it in the Bag!

That's sort of been the case since before she made it official.

You do know that right?

TPTB do not want the Drumpf! They're not going to hand him the keys to the palace... please rest assured of that.

They wanted Hillary, it was always going to be Hillary,

it was never going to be the Drumpf!

Just not going to happen!

[peacebird]

26. TPTB want Hillary, so that is what they will get? Are you saying our votes are totally irrelevant?

That our primaries are a sham to fool us into believing democracy still exists?

[Silver_Witch]

58. Yes that is what they are saying!

[jillan]

14. People who think Bernie supporters would vote for Trump really shock me. It just shows how

little you know about Bernie and what he stands for and why we support him.

Bernie supporters who don't vote for Hillary will most likely vote for Jill Stein of the Green Party.

This is what Bernie is about which is the complete opposite of Trump

[peace13]

16. Some people really hate Hillary.

Some people think Hill=trump. Some people have had enough. Some people have watched the election fraud and have had enough. I'm not saying this will offset the many rethugs who will love having Hill and Bill in office. But not voting for Hill is a real thing. I know many.

[jillan]

17. I think those that supported Bernie and refuse to vote for her will vote for Jill.

There is just too many differences between Trump and Bernie. The only commonality they have is on trade deals.

But that's it.

[LoverOfLiberty]

30. They may have different beliefs

but they operate from the same playbook.

[Adrahil]

50. Trump's position on trade deals is bullshit.

Like everything he says, it's pure pandering to the crowd. His product lines depend heavily (or did depend) on China and Mexico. You think he's gonna kill a path to cheap labor? Not a chance.

[DLCWIdem]

72. We seen them.post it over and over

Besides a non vote for Hil could put Trump in so really what is the difference. But I don't tthink it will be an issue his own party doesn't want him.

[jillan]

91. Are you referring to Bernie when you say his own party doesn't want him?

[BootinUp]

18. There is no justification to vote Green, sorry.

[EndElectoral]

76. Their platform is quite progressive.

[BootinUp]

77. and ?

[NorthCarolina]

82. Probably true for those that vote party over policy. -nt-

[BootinUp]

83. How is throwing a vote into a wishing well, voting for policy

when it only gives more vote margin to the conservatives?

A smaller liberal coalition is a weaker liberal coalition and results in less liberal policies.

[NorthCarolina]

86. Guess the DNC higherups should have put some thought into that

before they colluded to throw their full force behind a candidate with completely upside-down favorables. Not my decision, not my responsibility. From here on out I will only vote for those that reflect my Liberal/Progressive values. No more holding my nose, and the usual SCOTUS argument for supporting fiscally conservative Democrats has outlived it's usefulness.

[BootinUp]

87. whatever. You are clearly not serious about real change.

[jfern]

19. No, it's not a cult of personality that I won't be voting for Hillary

[B Calm]

29. I don't believe any Bernie supporter would vote for Trump. I find that offensive

that you would stoop that low and state that comment when the party is trying to unite. You should consider deleting that sentence in your OP!

[LoverOfLiberty]

31. Why should that sentence be deleted?

Head on over to the Sanders or political subs of Reddit and you'll find the place full of them.

[B Calm]

33. Show me a link on DU where a Bernie supporter claims they are voting for Trump.

If the OP can't do it, she should self delete that sentence.

[LoverOfLiberty]

36. Who died

and put you in charge? My statement stands.

[B Calm]

38. Who made you the OP spokesman? Skinner wants the party to unite. This type

of comments are further dividing the party.

[LoverOfLiberty]

39. You are being silly

My statement was factual. You denied that there are any Sanders supporters that will vote for Trump.
I stated that there are plenty on other sites.
You told me to retract my statement.
I said No
You said I'm hurting the party

So, I think you are being silly.

[B Calm]

40. So being offended by a Hillary supporter is now considered being silly.

Okay, got it.

[LoverOfLiberty]

44. If the truth offends you

then that is something you have to deal with.

[B Calm]

46. You have yet to proven what you consider the truth. Show me a link on DU

where a Bernie supporter is voting for Trump!

[LoverOfLiberty]

48. You didn't say DU

if you had then I wouldn't have responded.

You said no Sanders supporter would vote for Trump.

[B Calm]

49. and you are not the OP.

[LoverOfLiberty]

51. Be well my fellow Democrat n/t

[B Calm]

53. You too. Now let's work together and stop with the divisive comments.

[DLCWIdem]

79. If you think I will bring unity I will delete my comment inthe interest of unity.

[TwilightZone]

41. 20%, according to a WaPo/ABC poll

30% of white men who are Sanders supporters.

Sanders supporters also had a higher opinion overall of Trump than Clinton supporters.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/24/how-likely-are-bernie-sanders-supporters-to-actually-vote-for-donald-trump-here-are-some-clues/

[B Calm]

43. What's the % of Bernie supporters on DU who are voting for Trump?

[TwilightZone]

45. " I don't believe any Bernie supporter would vote for Trump."

You didn't mention DU until you moved the goalposts in your response.

Nice try, but no.

[B Calm]

47. We are posting on DU, aren't we?

[geek tragedy]

61. that's probably a pool of disaffected white men who hate Hillary Clinton and are looking

for a way to lash out.

exit polls have consistently shown Sanders winning a large share--even a majority--of voters who want the next president to be more conservative than Obama.

[B Calm]

63. You lost me on candidates.

[geek tragedy]

64. oops, fixed it--voters nt

[B Calm]

65. LOL

[geek tragedy]

69. data for you:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wrapping-wild-ride-2016-exit-poll-review-exit/story?id=38985830



http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-live-updates-west-v-guess-which-democrat-has-won-more-conservatives-th-1462899743-htmlstory.html

The surprise comes among the 12% of voters who said they want to see more conservative policies than Obama's. By a narrow margin, they have voted for Sanders. They make up about one in seven of his voters overall.

The exit polls are consistent with a pattern of Sanders victories in conservative states, such as Oklahoma, and in conservative parts of more liberal states. In New York, for example, Sanders won heavily white, conservative areas including parts of Staten Island, Howard Beach in Queens and Bay Ridge in Brooklyn.

Evidence that these are primarily "vote against" ballots rather than "vote fors" comes from a pattern that Nate Cohn noted in the New York Times : Sanders has won conservatives mostly in states that have closed primaries, in which only registered Democrats are eligible to vote.

A significant number of conservative voters have kept their Democratic registrations even though they almost always vote for a Republican presidential candidate. In some cases, they vote for Democrats on the local level. Others may stick with their existing registration just because they have no strong motivation to change it.

[lapucelle]

94. The possibility that some Sanders's supporters may cast their November ballots for Trump

has been covered in the media for months. Your umbrage is misplaced.
And you are not entitled to edit my OP.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/why-bernie-sanders-supporters-should-reject-donald-trump/485258/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/24/how-likely-are-bernie-sanders-supporters-to-actually-vote-for-donald-trump-here-are-some-clues/

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/279430-nearly-half-of-sanders-voters-in-west-virginia-would-vote

[blackspade]

32. No Sanders supporter is going to vote for Trump.

[swhisper1]

52. You might try not offending every progressive in this coountry with that last sentence

no progressive is going to vote for Trump. Some indys may, but I doubt it, but absolutely no Bernie follower, including the Bobs, which in itself is somewhat an offensive term.

Some of us will settle and vote for the danger we know oh too well, but it would not take too many offbeat comments to justify turning our backs this time, throwing our hands in the air and looking green or write in. The hostility from Hillary followers is unfounded and disrespectful.

It is a very peculiar election cycle, where normal tendencies have been flushed out to sea and half the nation sees the corruption and the futility for change. Both partys are bleeding, both have a virus that cannot be cured by the nominees. There is no right action to take. The corporations have us against the ropes.

[MillennialDem]

56. It is absolutely not a cult of personality. It's issues. Bernie doesn't want to be the dear leader,

he wants his agenda passed. He doesn't care to hold the office even.

[Orsino]

66. Please don't waste time worrying about an insignificant demographic.

Committed progressives aren't about to let an ignorant misogynist/misanthrope take the White House.