**Cali Update** L.A. ballot supervising team fights to prevent discarding 1 in 4 provisional ballots

[J_J_]

Last edited Wed Jun 22, 2016, 11:36 AM - Edit history (1)

From Nomi in LA, California...(as reported via FB, no changes made, but not my post.)

Dear friends,

Our tiny little Los Angeles ballot supervising team, credit mainly to our lead Julie Tyler, just did something really big.

Here goes.

Provisional ballots have to be counted last, mainly to avoid duplicate votes. They make up an enormous amount of ballots this election cycle--50% of them--and they began their count on Sunday, June 19th, just two days ago.

We noticed that out of the first 4,000 provisional ballots pulled, 1,000 of them were snagged because they were cast as "Democratic" ballots instead of "NPP/crossover Democratic" ballots. If you are NPP and received a Democratic ballot, you fell under the umbrella too.

For the record, I have never even SEEN an "NPP/crossover Democratic" ballot. Throughout the whole campaign, we, and hundreds of thousands of others, apparently, assumed a Dem ballot and a crossover Dem ballot were the same thing. Anyway, my guess as to why so many miscast ballots rolled in was either due to a misinformed poll worker, or the voter insisted on getting a Democratic ballot thinking they would be safer that way.

After spending so many hours supervising ballots, the main reason I've trusted the efficiency of it is because of their unwavering commitment to honor the voter's intent. So where did that go?

The concern of 25% of the provisional votes being tossed aside due to a formality was immediately reported on Sunday afternoon.

Yesterday, our little group banned together outside in heartache and frustration. Then something interesting happened. The chief executive took us into a little area down the hallway on the 5th floor, where we received the groundbreaking report:

"I have a bit of good news for you. I want you to know that we looked into it, and we agree that this issue falls under the category of voter intent. We want you to know that we have decided to count every Democratic ballot cast by an NPP voter." -Aaron Nevarez, Chief Executive Assistant of the Los Angeles Voters Registrar

Now that 66,500 NPP voters' Democratic ballots will be counted in Los Angeles as of around 1:00pm yesterday, this could mean the recovery of up to 580,000 uncounted votes in California. That's an eighth of the votes of the state. We have 16 days to get the word out to Secretary of State Alex Padilla and every county in California, who need to follow LA's lead and get those votes in.

On a personal level, nothing will replace the wave of chills over my body and the tears that came when we heard the news. We continue to show, ask questions, take notes, have meetings and conference calls, get angry, make headway, take steps backward, but all while continuing to say: "This is not okay. Our system can do better."

Never ever underestimate the power of people vehemently pursuing love and truth.

OUR VOICES ARE THE REVOLUTION.

And no, this is will not be on the news. So please share it.

Love, Nomi

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4pa71m/major_cali_update/


So it turns out they were not planning on counting all of the ballots until these election workers fought to have them counted.

And this is only in LA, the rest of the state is still tossing these ballots.

[Sunlei]

1. IMO, Our state campaigns are not over until all ballots are counted.

Happy Summer World.

[peace13]

2. Our system is broken.

It should not take this much effort to get the votes of the people counted. Ohio has suffered many election traumas but even we now have an open primary. Knowing every nuance of each State's primary process requires a bank of attorneys and constant attention as State rules can change at any time.

[J_J_]

17. Most people are happy to call it incompetence instead of fraud

Both are unacceptable and people need to be held accountable.

What the hell are we doing wasting our treasury spreading 'democracy' in the middle east when we can't even hold a vote properly?

[peace13]

20. I hear you. It's a mind boggle!

I live in Ohio. Have worked the polls. Have seen elections stolen outright and yet the outcome remained. Have stood on the Statehouse steps to protest the stolen presidential election. I understand that those who fight to keep our elections fair, those who work against election fraud and follow the process to the end....those people are our last line of defense. When they sit down we are done. Voter suppression is not new, but it has grown to encompass a huge percentage of the population. Need I mention black box voting? This primary process has added a new low for me. To be clear I am speaking about the process, not the outcome!

My best, to you. Kim

[J_J_]

53. "When they sit down we are done"

"I understand that those who fight to keep our elections fair, those who work against election fraud and follow the process to the end....those people are our last line of defense."

so true...

!!a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone fighting for fair elections!!

[Retrograde]

26. "Paper ballots, counted by hand" has been a DU mantra

for over a decade. This is the side effect of applying that mantra to a very large state that tries to count every vote.

The "bank of attorneys" is called the state ground team: it's their job to make sure the campaign knows and follows the rules. FWIW, California used the same process it did in 2012 - the last time party mattered in a primary election.

[peace13]

34. I have been an election observer, so I understand the process.

Maybe we could just cut to the bottom line and ask President Carter to set up a fair voting system in the US as he has done in other third world countries. Could we all agree on that?

Paper ballots, mandatory audits, software owned by the people,not the corporation. All of these would be helpful. Each state is different. It all requires feet on the ground if there is to be a hope of a valid outcome.

Shortage of Qualified workers is a universal problem. When I was trained as a poll worker the President of the BOE would show up during class. Her famous line as she shook her finger at us was,'Now follow the rules because if you screw up and I get called to court, you are all coming with me!' It used to be serious business. Now the problems are many and the struggle is real.

[Martin Eden]

3. Thank you so much for your good work

and for caring

[still_one]

4. I guess Greg Palast LIED when he said provisional ballots wouldn't be counted. I did point

out that California counts all their ballots, including provisional ones, regardless of the margin

For anyone who cares to see what the current vote is all they have to do is go to the SOS site to see the most current numbers:

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/returns/president/party/democratic/

Nothing is being hidden from the public. July 9 are when the final results will be completed:

http://www.sos.ca.gov/administration/news-releases-and-advisories/2016-news-releases-and-advisories/vote-count-update/

"Provisional Ballots

In California, provisional ballots serve as a fail-safe method of ensuring all voters who show up to the polls can cast a ballot.

All provisional ballots are carefully checked by county elections officials to confirm that the person who voted provisionally is both registered and that they did not cast a ballot by mail or at another polling location on Election Day."

[Fresh_Start]

7. Another good SOS link: unprocessed ballots

http://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/statewide-elections/2016-primary/unprocessed-ballots-report.pdf

I've watched it and it started with over 2 million unprocessed ballots...and has been steadily dropping

As of last night (looking only at the highest vote getters (in thousands)
6/7 6/21
clinton 1940 2569
sanders 1502 2123
trump 1174 1577
kasich 176 240
Cruz 144 200
Carson 54 77
Gilmore 11 14
Johnson 12 17

5020 6827

[LongtimeAZDem]

11. Beat me to it

At this point, Sanders could still win CA if he gets 79% of the remaining votes, but even if he got them all, Clinton would still receive far more delegates than needed for the pledged majority.

[still_one]

13. Thanks

[LongtimeAZDem]

9. And as of this morning

There are about 784,447 ballots left to count, including 511,429, as reported by the CA SoS:

http://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/statewide-elections/2016-primary/unprocessed-ballots-report.pdf

I've been watching the count, even though it is moot at this point; they have been averaging about 200,000 ballots counted per day.

[peace13]

10. Aaa...was the statement , provisional ballots won't be counted if Bernie concedes?

Your post brings many good questions. Unfortunately we are not on equal ground to discuss this here. Enjoy that you have privilege. I will hold my comments until November.

[still_one]

14. What is Aaa? My post has nothing to do with privilege. It was in regard to how California

does its primary elections.

California count all its ballots, including provisional ones:

Q: Are vote-by-mail and provisional ballots always counted – even in "landslide" elections?

A: Yes, every valid ballot returned to county elections officials by 8:00 p.m. on election day is counted in every election, regardless of the ballot type or the margin in any particular contest.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/administration/news-releases-and-advisories/2014-news-releases-and-advisories/db14-090/

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/provisional-voting/

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-status/

The provisional ballots would be counted regardless if a candidate concedes or not. I don't know how other states do it, but this is how California does it.

[brer cat]

15. I wish that Skinner would see this post and respond

because he is the obvious authority on the rules. But my reading of the rules doesn't support your statement at all. Unless you are unable to discuss issues without being rude, crude, or obnoxious, you are free to express your opinion. You can even bring your own "facts" to the table unless you are demonstratively lying or using rw sources. No one was granted "privilege" under the new rules.

[J_J_]

18. I read the rules & got the impression I was not allowed to say anything negative about Hillary ever

Every site on the net is discussing the new revelations from the Hillary hacker and DU is in off the wall mode pretending Hillary hasn't done anything bad ever.

[TwilightZone]

21. Then you didn't actually read them.

Because they clearly do not state that.

[peace13]

30. Yet it isn't discussed here.

Weird. Why don't you try it and see how it works for you? I haven't delved into the topic and prefer to focus on the positives.

[brer cat]

23. Does that have any relevance to this thread?

Bringing in "new revelations" that have no relevance to the current topic of discussion while probably not an offense that would result in a hide, doesn't help with the civility of the conversation. jmo

Did you see this thread? I found it more informative than just reading the rules.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10137292

Especially Your expectations are probably wrong

No doubt there are uncertainties about exactly what is and is not allowed, but I do think a careful reading of all that Skinner has posted indicates that he is trying to be fair and certainly not stifle all criticism of Hillary or of the party procedures. I do admit that is easier for me, as a Hillary supporter, to see than it would be for someone supporting Bernie.

Also you might seek further clarification from Skinner in the Ask the Administrators forum.

[still_one]

22. I agree. We are all under the same rules. I was just on a jury which made some uncalled for

references to Bernie and his supporters, and the post was correctly removed

[peace13]

28. You are not aware of the hides that are happening out here.

I know that they are trying to work things out and that Skinner is more than aware of the issues. To be fair the hide I got after one hour of reboot was eventually reversed. Simply talking about hides or locks can create a problem. I am sure it will all work out but it is good to not take things for granted. This in no way is a criticism of the system. It is a comment on the journey of learning to navigate within the structure. Have an awesome day!

[J_J_]

16. These election workers fought to have these ballots counted

and they are still being tossed in the rest of the state.

[Maru Kitteh]

31. No ballots are being "tossed" in the rest of the state

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512212346#post4

and

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512212346#post7

[Silver_Witch]

5. The right thing often wins! Sometimes it seems like it won't but it does!!!

Next no more caucuses and no more super delegates. Let the people be heard!!!!

Way to lead CALIFORNIA. So proud of my state!!

[Kip Humphrey]

6. Here is why crossover ballots were substituted in LA...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017374111

[AtomicKitten]

42. The training sessions for poll workers were revealing.

They were instructed to not offer the correct ballot to voters. They were instructed to give voters provisional ballots, but if they asked for a Democratic ballot they were given a ballot that did not include the presidential race. They had to say the specific magic words "Democratic crossover ballot" before being given the correct ballot that included the presidential candidates.

[demmiblue]

8. "This is not okay. Our system can do better."

Election integrity is of the utmost importance.

As Democrats, we should get this... especially in light of the 2000 General Election (and then some, and then some even more).

[J_J_]

19. WE must demand more!

I demand we get the freak out of the middle east where we are wasting our treasury spreading death and destruction, NOT democacy...

and focus on how we can fix our own.

This is absurd and unacceptable!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

12. share this!

make sure it reaches the powers that be

[onenote]

24. Can someone explain the numbers cited in the OP?

First, the claim is made that provisional ballots "make up an enormous amount of ballots this election cycle--50% of them".
That doesn't add up. The peak number of provisional ballots reported was around 706,000. The total number of ballots (including the provisional ballots) is in the 8.6 million range.

Second, the article on which the OP is based claims as a result of the decision to count Democratic ballots cast by NPP voters, "66,500 NPP voters' Democratic ballots will be counted in Los Angeles" and this could mean "the recovery of up to 580,000 uncounted votes in California"

I'm not sure where the 66,500 number comes from. According to the article 1 out of 4 provisional ballots weren't being counted. Since there are currently over 500,000 unprocessed provisional ballots, the 66,500 number seems too low. At the same time, given that only out of four ballots were in jeopardy and the total number of unprocessed provisional ballots right after election day was around 700,000, it's hard to figure out what the basis is for the claim that almost 600,000 of those ballots wouldn't have bee counted.

The bottom line is that there are around 785,000 unprocessed ballots left (including the 511,000 unprocessed provisional ballots, 238,000 unprocessed mail in ballots, and a small number of "other" ballots). The difference between Clinton and Sanders remains at around 445,000 votes. Even if 100 percent of the 785,000 unprocessed ballots was a Democratic presidential primary ballot (that is, none of those ballots were cast in the Republican primary or one of the third party primaries or were NPP ballots not cast in any presidential primaries), Sanders would have to get around 80 percent of the unprocessed ballots to catch Clinton.

[riderinthestorm]

25. It's shameful that there's still people who still don't believe there's been

serious problems with the primary voting.

SMH.

K&R for these persistent, brave advocates ensuring everyone's vote counts.

[KittyWampus]

32. it's shameful there's still those who won't accept their candidate didn't educate their voters

NOR THEIR STAFF ON THE GROUND.

[peace13]

38. You should educate yourself instead of blaming people for what you don't know about.

If you have been paying any attention during this primary you would agree that the system is broken. No one is saying a thing in complaint about the outcome, only you, who blames a candidate that was working in the trenches to educate the voter. Even the best candidate can not overcome improper ballot assignment at the polls. Once again I repeat, I don't care who the winner is. My problem is with the system!

[floriduck]

27. To me, it doesn't matter which state is involved or which candidate wins or loses. It is totally

unacceptable that votes cannot be correctly counted within a short, yet reasonable amount of time. The fact that CA is still inching through the process, without question, lacks adequate controls in place.

[LongtimeAZDem]

37. The count has been averaging 200,000 ballots per day

What do you want them to do, wave a magic wand?

[randome]

40. No understanding of the complexity of handling votes by millions of people in hundreds of counties.

I don't understand all the complexities yet I know enough to know I don't know enough.

[floriduck]

44. It's called the wonders of technology. If we had open source electronic voting with paper audit

trails, it would have been done in a day as each county sampled the paper to the electronic tallies. This IS 2016 in the USA not Colombia of the 1930s.

[LongtimeAZDem]

45. And people would be screaming that the counting machines are rigged.

Edited to add: When people are convinced that there is a conspiracy afoot, no technology will placate them.

And, again, the outcome is exactly the same.

Senator Sanders lost the pledged delegate count; by exactly how much won't be known for a while yet, but that reality is not going to change.

[floriduck]

47. Open sourcing would solve that. Right now, only the company developers know the rules built in.

But if they open the source code, people from all parties and candidates would be able to see them. That has been the biggest concern for Democrats since most of the manufacturers are tied to Republicans.

[floriduck]

48. One more thing. This, as I stated above has nothing to do with specific states OR candidates. So

please leave Bernie Sanders out of this.

[LongtimeAZDem]

49. Fair enough; I admit that I reacted to your avatar. My apologies (nt)

[floriduck]

50. Thanks. I appreciate that.

[Retrograde]

29. Did LA county have any races for party positions on its ballots?

My county - Santa Clara - had two different Democratic ballots this past primary (source: personal examination of the ballots my husband -a registered Democrat - and I - No Party Preference- received. The difference was one race for Democratic party officials). The ballots were marked "Democratic" and "Non-Partisan - Democratic" respectively.

I'd like to see some actual facts other than reddit posts before jumping to conclusions. And BTW, contrary to what the quoted poster says, the other counties are doing their due diligence and counting all their votes - some have already finished!

[DemonGoddess]

33. Why the hell are we still arguing about this?

The primaries are OVER.

[peace13]

41. Ummm...they are counting primary ballots.

That is what the OP is about!

[DemonGoddess]

43. What I'm seeing here

is people arguing over the outcome, on the slim to none hope that their candidate who LOST will win this primary.

I'm also seeing variations of CT being floated about, which really, really, needs to stop. We have a GENERAL ELECTION to work on and win.

[Arazi]

36. Every vote should count! This is crazy they're still counting

[obamanut2012]

39. They have a month to count and certify in CA

This is not unusual -- it happens every election. The supermajority vote via mail.

[eastwestdem]

46. FYI...no one from California (that I know...being born and raised here) likes the nickname "Cali" nt

[J_J_]

55. born and raised in California myself

don't know anyone who would be offended that I shortened a headline

[anotherproletariat]

57. Another Californian who doesn't like the nickname "Cali"...

I don't think anyone is 'offended' (there are far greater things to be offended about!) but it's like when people call San Francisco "Frisco" or "San Fran"...not something you hear from the locals around here. It would be easier to just use CA.

[MattP]

51. Count them all but don't extrapolate 580000 from 65000

[greiner3]

52. But as I've been reading more and more on this post

"The primary is over, so get over it".

[MattP]

54. La county is 10 million people so 65000 x 4 is over 500000?

What kind of math is that? And that assumes all countys threw out npp votes which is highly doubtful

[rhett o rick]

56. I am disappointed that Democrats would try to rationalize why our system

is lousy. There are 23 countries that have better election processes that the USofA WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE MODEL OF DEMOCRACY. It's the model of corruption. It isn't an accident that our system is lousy. The Powers That Be proved in 2000 and 2004 that they could fix a presidential election.