2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI guess it's all or nothing for Bernie..
If we dont make it in Orlando, were takin that fight right to the floor of the Democratic convention. Whether they like it or not, were going to open the doors of the Democratic Party.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/unity-efforts-hit-snag-at-final-meeting-over-democratic-platform/2016/06/24/2919fd06-3a3d-11e6-a254-2b336e293a3c_story.html?postshare=9911466840165352&tid=ss_tw
I have never seen or known of a loser demanding so much. Never. Hillary is making great efforts and still it's not enough and this threatening language is terrible.
Response to fun n serious (Original post)
Post removed
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)and he makes it seem like it's terrible not to adopt everything he wants. Geez. He lost!
swhisper1
(851 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Ultimately, we are all on the same side and we should accept that in an election, someone has to win and someone has to lose.
We should all work for electing Hillary Clinton. Bernie and Hillary have 95% of views in common and 91% votes in common.
When faced with losing 100%, most rational people would settle for 95% and move forward.
swhisper1
(851 posts)and no, they are not 95% alike,more 5% alike. I look at history, not the person nor his or her gender, but their personage, ethics and morals, ideals and consistency. I am not the minority in this thinking. I am looking at the general election and see only descending into a black hole. All four party's have nothing to offer the problems of today. There is no there there, no enthusiasm, just each voter voting for the lesser of the 4 evils. None stand for america- they only stand for their own agendas, or single issues. One stands for nothing but his own name.
A tragedy is unfolding. America is an infant in years compared to other nations, and as it slides into puberty, it has lost identity and there is no future if we keep this course. Do we suicide or do we stand up and fight for the core of our people?
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)progressive revolution and the simple fact is that the primary is still on.
Now that most progressive issues will be adopted in the Democratic Party platform anyway, his biggest issue is "opening" the Democratic Party so outsiders can vote for his revolutionary successors in the primaries. I worry that could lead to a Koch-lead takeover attempt, i.e., a left-wing "tea party" phenomenon given extra power by an influx of conservative populists, but Bernie sees it as a way for his revolution to gain ground in the next election. This is obviously a crucial strategy for him, so he fights on. I don't think anyone should be surprised.
Or too dismayed. Sanders is almost certainly going to lose this one because the Democratic Party needs him to. His successors for the leadership of his movement will just have to win their Democratic primaries by appealing to the Democratic Party membership.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)speaking as a Sanders supporter and lifetime Democrat...
Bernie has shown every sign of moving towards wrapping this thing up, although not at the speed that some Hillary supporters have demanded... and I am willing to allow him to do that, at whatever speed with which he is comfortable. Whatever remains of the "campaign" is really about the platform and future of the party, and not about the nomination.
Why do so many Clinton supporters here seem to want to keep fighting the primary battle?
You've won, haven't you?
Bernie has never sought to install conservatives into the Democratic party-- that much is complete bullshit.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)to keep speaking at party events about his own issues. If the primary were over, he would only be given a speaker's spot at the convention to speak for the party. Some Democrats are tired of his insults and prefer to pretend he's "out," of course, but that doesn't explain why you're arguing that it's over.
But yes, things have ended up pretty much as we expected in the beginning. We do still need to protect the party from those who want it to lay back, spread its legs, and think of, what is it? "Democracy?"
John Poet
(2,510 posts)From my point of view, that describes someone else from whom you think it does.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...the Democratic Party platform progressive than as an Independent.
BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)saying, I do not appreciate the implication that the Dem Party platform was not "progressive" BBS ("before Bernie Sanders" .
There has been too much of the "Sanders Revolution" taking credit for things that the Dem Party has ALWAYS stood for or doing things that some Dems have been doing all along, a la Rep John Lewis or Hillary herself.
Some of us have been fighting the good fight all our lives. That is why we are Democrats.
Stuckinthebush
(10,816 posts)"Some of us have been fighting the good fight all our lives. That is why we are Democrats."
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)RKP5637
(67,032 posts)it's far better IMO than other options. I like Bernie, I voted for Bernie, but I will now vote for Hillary. I also would love to see a Hillary/Warren ticket.
BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)RKP5637
(67,032 posts)AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)pandr32
(11,447 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)it's an insult to Democrats who have been fighting for progressive causes for many years. Is the Democratic party perfect? Of course not. Can it be improved? Sure. But that DOESN'T mean that Sanders can or should get everything he wants on the platform.
Gothmog
(144,005 posts)w4rma
(31,700 posts)Gothmog
(144,005 posts)The Wielding Truth
(11,411 posts)That's what he is about now. 'Nuf said.
We're all on the Dem-train. Let's take on some more passengers!
Go! Hill! I want Hillary! So does Bernie.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)Bernie, but IMO he's being a realist too as am I. The dems must win in 2016 to save this country.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)calimary
(80,700 posts)I don't claim to speak for anyone other than myself, although I've seen enough anecdotal evidence in my own reading and studying to support this particular reply title, and rather strongly.
I used to enjoy listening to "Brunch with Bernie," every Friday, back when Thom Hartmann's show aired here in L.A., years ago. Thought he was a good egg. But the more I learned about him during this campaign, the more troubled I became.
For me, no one spoke to me, or my concerns - with real meat in the sandwich about HOW actually and realistically to get some of this accomplished - better and louder and more forcefully than Hillary did. I kept thinking about the proverbial "wish sandwich" that the Blues Brothers riffed about, where you have two pieces of bread, and you WISH you had some meat. FOR ME, I found that Bernie's campaign fitted that definition.
I've been a Hillary supporter ever since I first learned about her in 1992. And rather ardently, too. She had me at "I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies." Nothing she's done since has deflated that. Quite the contrary - the more I see, hear, read, and learn about her, since then, and throughout this campaign has only reinforced my original instincts about her.
Ptah
(32,983 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)The struggle continues as Sanders himself has said so it seems reasonable to discuss it in those terms.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Response to fun n serious (Original post)
Post removed
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I think Hillary is really trying to bring the party together and I think it's unreasonable for a candidate who lost to ask for so much. I mean, Hillary's voters voted for HER platform not his. They are the majority.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)depending on who they're about. THAT is a 'fact'.
swhisper1
(851 posts)of thinking. she believes what she says and no one can force her to bend. Everything Bernie asked for goes against her overall plans. She will keep her voters.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)She has been using unity language for weeks now. She has been sucessful. I think a large number have already moved to Hillary.
swhisper1
(851 posts)kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)Response to kerry-is-my-prez (Reply #59)
Post removed
swhisper1
(851 posts)not belong to the biases of a clique. I refused to join a clique in high school. That did not say I am not a democrat
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)3 civil posts hidden for "fighting the primary" because they pointed out Bernie shouldnt get credit for Dem sit in and his not conceding is stubborn and doesnt create unity.
Alert stalking is still very much in style here at DU
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Response to Post removed (Reply #4)
Surya Gayatri This message was self-deleted by its author.
swhisper1
(851 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)after all, not a church bake sale committee meeting. The Democratic Party, like most, has always had many factions which by definition don't agree, and people at that level play a far tougher game for very high stakes. Sanders is doing what he's supposed to do for all the people, mostly Democrats, who voted for what he could do for them: Using what leverage he has to come through for them.
In this case, all parties involved had to have expected this from the beginning. Both Bernie and the DNC knew, for instance, that a demand for a min wage increase to $15 was not going to be approved. Bernie delegates were a minority on the committee, and the rest thought that was too big a jump for the nation to take and likely to backfire. They also knew, because Bernie has been anything but ambiguous on the subject, that he would go make noise at the convention.
Big surprise.
What I am wondering about is committee members not bringing copies of their proposed amendments to pass around. That's very basic stuff, so is not providing copies itself a tactic and for what purpose?
In any case, we just picked up another couple boxes of microwave popcorn at Sam's Club, so with luck we'll be set through the convention.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)on this forum about the $15, I just assumed it had been shot down. Big mistake.
So, in any case, substitute whatever issues they got stopped on here.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Just googled news on this and found articles at the top claiming it'd been shot down and claiming it was adopted, posted 14 and 9 hours ago respectively. Well, I certainly have no problem with opening the door to $15 anyway, so all good.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)I think the platform draft says Americans should earn at least $15 per hour and the Sanders people wanted it to say that the federal min wage should be $15 and indexed to inflation.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)The Hill reported Dems adopt a $15 minimum wage. You'd think they'd at least understand the importance of language.
merrily
(45,251 posts)kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Isn't the first time.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/284888-democratic-platform-draft-shows-sanderss-clout
http://www.salon.com/2016/06/25/clinton_appointees_oppose_15_minimum_wage_amendment_in_democratic_platform_sanders_surrogates_back_it/
http://fightfor15.org/democratic-party-adopts-15-national-minimum-wage-to-party-platform/
Versus http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280214746
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Dem Platform Committee Votes Down $15 Min Wage Amendment ...
www.democraticunderground.com/1017387959
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)It's in...
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)Amendments were rejected, not the plank itself. The plank is in the platform.
http://www.thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/284888-dems-adopt-15-minimum-wage-in-draft-platform
swhisper1
(851 posts)lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)We're not supposed to keep fighting the primary. But Bernie is.
K&R
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)at least not legally, yet.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)It's a piece of aspiration written on paper.
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)I don't think "unconventional" is a good criterion to judge a candidate by. Just my opinion.
swhisper1
(851 posts)Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)Primetime at the convention is for speeches. The rest of the time the delegates can vote on things such as whether the platform should be against fracking and the TPP.
(I'm against fracking and the TPP.)
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I am all for phasing out fracking asap but TPP is not an issue for me.
swhisper1
(851 posts)SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)This isn't a much of a "fight" since the outcome is already guaranteed. More like a prolonged tantrum by a man who lost and doesn't have the voting strength to get any of his agenda through.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)That seems doable. Surprised there is so much contention over that.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Squinch
(50,774 posts)Response to Squinch (Reply #31)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Those voices can't be ignored.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)they're the majority.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)lol
riversedge
(69,727 posts)rickford66
(5,498 posts)Bernie should crawl back into a hole?
swhisper1
(851 posts)LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)sure they can
Response to fun n serious (Original post)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #40)
Post removed
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)Response to Post removed (Reply #40)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #40)
Post removed
Gothmog
(144,005 posts)Tal Vez
(660 posts)The fact that someone may be opposed to including a proposal in a party platform does not mean that the same person would oppose the same proposal when it comes to changing the law. A platform contains and omits many things for strategic reasons.
swhisper1
(851 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Platforms are guidelines.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)No one has been stopped from becoming a Democrat. All are free to join. They just aren't going to be given control of the party when they are still the minority.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Teamster Jeff
(1,598 posts)There has been so much triangulating and conceding done by Dems that an actual political push seems like an outrage.
TumbleAndJumble
(24 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Response to fun n serious (Original post)
Post removed
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)kiva
(4,373 posts)Glad to hear it.
Response to fun n serious (Original post)
Post removed
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)vintx
(1,748 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)vintx
(1,748 posts)Good luck with that.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)His window has closed.
Vinca
(50,170 posts)William769
(55,124 posts)HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)"During a 9-hour meeting in St. Louis, Missouri on Friday, members of the DNC's platform drafting committee voted down a number of measures proposed by Bernie Sanders surrogates that would have come out against the contentious Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), fracking, and the Israeli occupation of Palestine. At the same time, proposals to support a carbon tax, Single Payer healthcare, and a $15 minimum wage tied to inflation were also disregarded.
In a statement, Sanders said he was "disappointed and dismayed" that representatives of Hillary Clinton and DNC chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schulz rejected the proposal on trade put forth by Sanders appointee Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), despite the fact that the presumed nominee has herself come out against the 12-nation deal."
"Inexplicable" was how Sanders described the move, adding: "It is hard for me to understand why Secretary Clintons delegates wont stand behind Secretary Clintons positions in the partys platform."