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Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:30 AM

Sanders is itching for a convention fight

Politico:

Bernie Sanders is still spoiling for a convention fight.

It seemed like Democrats could finally claim unity when no member of the Democratic National Committee's 15-person convention drafting committee voted against the draft of the policy platform draft during a meeting in St. Louis this past weekend: 13 members of the panel voted for the draft, one abstained and one missed the vote. But since then, Sanders-aligned members have teed off on the draft for not going far enough in key areas.

...snip...

So far, Sanders and his team have locked up draft policy wins on language for abolishing the death penalty, expanding Social Security through raising the cap on how much Americans earning $250,000 or more pay to expand benefits, and breaking up the country's largest banks. But that's not everything on Sanders' lengthy priority list, so the senator and his allies are vowing to keep pushing hard.

While he admits that some gains are better than none at all, Sanders himself has already begun voicing his dissatisfaction. In an email to supporters on Thursday (titled "We're going to the convention" Sanders wrote that "we are going to take our political revolution into the halls of the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia where we will fight to place a $15 minimum wage, opposition to TPP, and a ban on fracking directly into the Democratic Platform."

128 replies, 9770 views

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Reply Sanders is itching for a convention fight (Original post)
brooklynite Jul 2016 OP
merrily Jul 2016 #1
MohRokTah Jul 2016 #2
AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #3
Lord Magus Jul 2016 #8
AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #10
seabeyond Jul 2016 #14
AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #31
seabeyond Jul 2016 #33
BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #68
InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2016 #105
seabeyond Jul 2016 #107
InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2016 #109
stopbush Jul 2016 #111
seabeyond Jul 2016 #115
seabeyond Jul 2016 #114
JaneQPublic Jul 2016 #39
seabeyond Jul 2016 #42
JaneQPublic Jul 2016 #43
Hortensis Jul 2016 #75
caquillo Jul 2016 #45
seabeyond Jul 2016 #47
George II Jul 2016 #102
MohRokTah Jul 2016 #25
Gothmog Jul 2016 #59
David__77 Jul 2016 #51
MohRokTah Jul 2016 #53
David__77 Jul 2016 #54
MohRokTah Jul 2016 #56
David__77 Jul 2016 #60
MohRokTah Jul 2016 #61
David__77 Jul 2016 #62
MohRokTah Jul 2016 #64
BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #69
George II Jul 2016 #101
MineralMan Jul 2016 #4
Funtatlaguy Jul 2016 #5
Silver_Witch Jul 2016 #12
seabeyond Jul 2016 #15
tonyt53 Jul 2016 #22
GeorgeGist Jul 2016 #26
brooklynite Jul 2016 #27
LongtimeAZDem Jul 2016 #30
bettyellen Jul 2016 #66
seabeyond Jul 2016 #32
tonyt53 Jul 2016 #37
AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #34
seabeyond Jul 2016 #36
tallahasseedem Jul 2016 #63
Orsino Jul 2016 #48
InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2016 #108
stopbush Jul 2016 #112
seabeyond Jul 2016 #116
stopbush Jul 2016 #123
InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2016 #124
stopbush Jul 2016 #125
CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #6
MO_Dem Jul 2016 #23
BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #70
bvf Jul 2016 #73
seabeyond Jul 2016 #83
bvf Jul 2016 #85
seabeyond Jul 2016 #86
bvf Jul 2016 #88
seabeyond Jul 2016 #89
bvf Jul 2016 #90
seabeyond Jul 2016 #91
bvf Jul 2016 #93
seabeyond Jul 2016 #94
bvf Jul 2016 #98
DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2016 #99
lapucelle Jul 2016 #126
Cary Jul 2016 #120
George II Jul 2016 #103
sufrommich Jul 2016 #7
WhiteTara Jul 2016 #13
seabeyond Jul 2016 #16
rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #17
Lord Magus Jul 2016 #9
pandr32 Jul 2016 #55
seabeyond Jul 2016 #11
randome Jul 2016 #18
NCTraveler Jul 2016 #19
tonyt53 Jul 2016 #21
tonyt53 Jul 2016 #20
JaneyVee Jul 2016 #24
nolawarlock Jul 2016 #79
brooklynite Jul 2016 #28
aikoaiko Jul 2016 #29
MoonRiver Jul 2016 #35
Jester Messiah Jul 2016 #52
Gothmog Jul 2016 #38
MelissaB Jul 2016 #41
Gothmog Jul 2016 #57
randome Jul 2016 #58
Lord Magus Jul 2016 #67
MelissaB Jul 2016 #71
zappaman Jul 2016 #40
MaggieD Jul 2016 #44
Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #50
AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #78
Cary Jul 2016 #121
Post removed Jul 2016 #46
Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #49
BootinUp Jul 2016 #65
eastwestdem Jul 2016 #72
mcar Jul 2016 #74
floriduck Jul 2016 #76
Lil Missy Jul 2016 #77
NanceGreggs Jul 2016 #80
RazBerryBeret Jul 2016 #81
pokerfan Jul 2016 #82
RazBerryBeret Jul 2016 #84
seabeyond Jul 2016 #87
bvf Jul 2016 #92
pokerfan Jul 2016 #95
CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #96
oasis Jul 2016 #97
MineralMan Jul 2016 #100
Agnosticsherbet Jul 2016 #104
YOHABLO Jul 2016 #106
seabeyond Jul 2016 #117
stopbush Jul 2016 #110
cloudythescribbler Jul 2016 #113
seabeyond Jul 2016 #118
cloudythescribbler Jul 2016 #119
seabeyond Jul 2016 #122
mwrguy Jul 2016 #127
beachbumbob Jul 2016 #128

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:33 AM

1. I thought Sanders wanted platform planks. Turns out, he only wants a fight?

I wonder how politico that?

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:34 AM

2. He'll be completely shut out, then. eom

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:36 AM

3. Good luck with that

 

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:43 AM

8. I don't see why shutting him out would be difficult.

And he seems dead set on making it the only option.

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Response to Lord Magus (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:46 AM

10. It would be easy, and stupid

 

And it isn't going to happen just to satisfy partisans.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:49 AM

14. Meh... most grown ups know, throwing out threats will result in people doing what is necessary to

 

avoid such disruption.

I mean.... Lol, really? You expect everyone to just submit to the tantrums? In what grown up world is that allowed?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:22 AM

31. Pure speculation

 

Fueled by partisanship

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #31)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:24 AM

33. Listening to Sanders and taking him at his words, along with his supporters. At what point are we

 

to ignore what we are actually being told without being stupid?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #33)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:04 PM

68. + a million! eom

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #33)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:35 AM

105. Sanders is one of the few politicians whom you can trust to speak truth to power.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #105)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:37 AM

107. I disagree. I know that is the meme, but I did not find the reality in his campaign. I think,

 

he got a lot of credit with something that was not a reality.

Imo, he is merely a politician, and pretending otherwise. He is as much a part of the establishment as a politician can be.

Again, I actually listen to what the man says, and I believe him.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #107)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:46 AM

109. I respect your opinion, but disagree strenuously with your dim view of Bernie. His influence over the party platform speaks to his non-establishment pedigree.

Hillary would be wise to emulate that which made Bernie so appealing to the grassroots if she wants to maximize her chances against that shitstain of a candidate tRump.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #109)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:48 AM

111. Why would she emulate Sanders when being herself gained 4-million more votes than Sanders?

I think you have it backwards.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #111)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 10:03 AM

115. This is just one of many oddities. Clinton success thru out the campaign. Historical success.

 

Is so dismissed to the point that Sanders is still the winner.

How does one do that.

I was told factually, Sanders has more of the American people rooting for him. How in the world do you get that, when we look at the number.

I was told, in the nation polls for GE, it has Sanders on the top. A man that has not nationally run, and has not been vetted.

We ignore the actual votes that have been counted. We believe as a fact, those votes not counted.

How does that make sense?

I do not live life like that. The world of hurt I would create for myself. Wouldn't work for me at all.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #109)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 10:00 AM

114. Sanders has not been vetted. I on the other hand, researched Sanders when he first threw his hat in.

 

I researched, read, and processed a lot of information, starting with Sanders in his 20's and thru out his life. Both his personal life and his professional life. I am hitting this from the angle of being informed, listening, ..... listening, listening, listening, ..... And coming to a totally different conclusion than you have. And many of his supporters. Also with the understanding that there was a whole lot of dichotomy in this primary, which absolutely fuckin interests me in amazing.

I can talk about Sanders and this primary, the hypocrisy and dichotomy, for hours. Maybe days.

This is what I truly appreciate that Sanders has brought to the table. I call bullshit on the policy, because he is giving no more, than the already Democratic platform. I am not fooled to believe, he is the ONLY progressive to be found. I do not buy into that and I believe, historically, factually that can easily be argued.

Sanders has helped allow me to sharpen issues I already know about. The whole Social Justice issue was more sharply defined and clear, with Sanders running. A huge gift from him, to me, in understanding the life we live.

People have got to stop assuming that one is not simply differing opinions and conclusions instead of assuming they are simply stupid or uninformed. It makes it so much easier to understand. And, I listened to Sanders. I listened, and am listening to his supporters.

We disagree though.

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Response to Lord Magus (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:07 AM

39. Perhaps getting shut out is his goal.

It would give him a reason to ditch the Democratic Party and return to the Senate as an Independent.

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Response to JaneQPublic (Reply #39)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:16 AM

42. I had heard but not positive, that he already registered as Independent for his senate run.

 

I do not think there is any reason any of us would assume he would become a part of the Democratic party. I know that I always expected him to walk back into Independent. I do not think he really ever walked away from that identity. But, I do think he has already registered his run as an Independent. Which is totally fine, and I have no issue with it, nor expect anything else.

Shoot, I was good with him keeping Independent while running in the Democratic primary. I think the only reason he changed party identity was because he had to legally in some of the states to get on the Democratic ticket. Otherwise, it didn't matter to me.

I am offended though his lecturing and insulting the Democratic party, suggesting he is our savior, and his need to fix us.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #42)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:28 AM

43. +1

Totally agree, seabeyond.

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Response to JaneQPublic (Reply #43)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:39 PM

75. Offended here too, but anti-Democrats on both

left and right love it, and I believe that is the point. The Democratic Party platform is a very strong progressive one. He can't let that defuse his anti-Democratic Party progressive movement.

My guess is Sanders' job now is to make sure his "revolution" continues by holding onto as many followers as he can. To that end both inside and outside the convention he will do his best to feed the anti-establishment resentment of left- and right-wing populists, the anti-Democrat hostility of anti-Democrats, the dissatisfactions of radical progressives, the desire to be part of an important movement of romantics, the fear and economic issues of other conservatives, and the aspirations for a better world of idealists. And, of course, open more primaries to outside influences.

So if I'm right we're in for continuation of the insults as he tries to pump some of his former supporters up enough to keep receiving his e-mails. But after the convention they all go home, and we'll find out eventually if it really worked or he's just pretending.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #42)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:38 AM

45. Back in April, Weaver confirmed that Sanders would remain a Democrat for life, post-primaries

Of course, we've learned since not to take them at their word. The Sanders campaign always says one thing and does another. In fact, Sanders is the master of doublespeak, and every word out of Trump's mouth is a downright lie -- yet Hillary is the one with trust issues?

Bernie Sanders will remain a member of the Democratic Party after his primary election against Hillary Clinton, his campaign manager said Wednesday.

The independent Vermont senator’s congressional website currently notes that Sanders is the “the longest serving independent member of Congress in American history,” though he caucuses with Democrats.

“If Sen. Sanders is not the nominee, will he stay in the Democratic Party forever now,” Bloomberg Politics’ Mark Halperin asked.

“Well, he is a Democrat. He’s said he’s a Democrat, and he’s gonna be [supporting] the Democratic nominee, whoever that is,” Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver told Bloomberg Politics’ “With All Due Respect.”

“But he’s a member of the Democratic Party now for life?” Halperin pressed.

“Yes, he is,” Weaver said. “Yes, he is.”

Sanders’ Senate office has identified him as an independent as recently as April 1.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/bernie-sanders-democrat-independent-222228

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Response to caquillo (Reply #45)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:42 AM

47. I disagree with Weaver. Pretty certain he won't but what do I know. I'm not even willing to invest

 

the time to check to see if it is fact that he registered Independent to run his senate race, lol. That is how much it is irrelevant to me.

Thanks. And I agree, Clinton consistently came up the most truthful candidate, with the different fact checks. That is ironic.

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Response to JaneQPublic (Reply #39)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:29 AM

102. He is already set up to run as an Independent in 2018, even has his campaign committee registered...

...as "Independent".

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:57 AM

25. The rules are clear.

 

No candidates speak prior to the floor vote. After the floor vote, only the nominee and those chosen by the nominee speak.

You will have to suspend the rules to change that, requiring a vote of two-thirds of the delegates.

Good luck with that.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:41 AM

59. There have been a large number of compromises made to platform

I will be at the convention as a delegate and I am not in favor or any further compromises

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:27 AM

51. Will the 1,879 Sanders delegates be shut out as well?

I can understand denying Sanders a speaking role in the event that he doesn't endorse the nominated candidate. I can also understand his delegates expressing their viewpoints.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #51)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:33 AM

53. It would take a vote of 3,177 delegates in favor of suspending the rules in order to allow....

 

Sanders to speak.

Which Hillary delegates are going to allow a speech that will tear into the nominee and the party in primetime during the convention? Sanders simply does not have the votes to go it alone.

so, again, tell me which Clinton delegates will betray the nominee and the party and vote to suspend the rules?

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #53)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:35 AM

54. I never said that Clinton delegates would support Sanders speaking.

I said that I can understand denying Sanders a speaking role in the event that he doesn't endorse the nominated candidate.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #54)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:39 AM

56. Only one of his delegates will be allowed to speak.

 

And that one is only allowed to enter Sanders' name into nomination.

The only way the other delegates are allowed to speak is via their vote, which is woefully outnumbered by the nominee's delegates so in effect they get nothing to say.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #56)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:44 AM

60. I don't personally think that is what will happen.

It could happen, certainly. I think that Sanders will definitely and enthusiastically endorse Clinton.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #60)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:46 AM

61. I judge potential future behavior on past actions.

 

Given past behavior, especially over the past two weeks, I in no way believe that Sanders will ever endorse or concede.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #61)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:50 AM

62. I can understand that.

Also, I'm not focusing a lot of attention on the matter.

I suppose I do not imagine that the Democratic convention will be other than neatly stage-managed.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #62)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 12:08 PM

64. IT will definitely be well managed.

 

That regardless of any decisions made by Sanders between now and then.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #64)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:07 PM

69. Thank you for providing real

information, MRT!!

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Response to David__77 (Reply #51)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:27 AM

101. How would they be "shut out"? They'll be at the convention and will be permitted to participate...

...within the convention rules and Robert's Rules of Order. They can vote in the first (and most likely only) ballot.

The convention is not a caucus, they should not disrupt the proceedings because the votes aren't going their way.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:38 AM

4. The platform will be, as always, a compromise.

It will also be mostly general in nature, also as always.

Expecting it to include specific language that is desired by the second-place candidate is expecting more than will be delivered.

Nobody pays attention to the platform anyhow for more than a week or so anyhow. I doubt if anyone participating in this thread, other than myself, has even read the 2012 Democratic Party Platform from beginning to end.

The platform doesn't actually matter a damn to what happens. It's little more than a general outline of desired directions.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:39 AM

5. Not sure fight is right word

He wants to reshape the party and move the platform leftward.

his biggies are: $15 min wage, TPP, fracking, student debt/tuition, voter reg/reform

How much Hillary wants to move in that direction is entirely her call.
She is the nominee.

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Response to Funtatlaguy (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:49 AM

12. This^^^ thank you!

 

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Response to Funtatlaguy (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:50 AM

15. Sanders, a non Democrat who is still registered as Independent, running senate as Independent

 

doesn't get to reshape our party, and we have said so with our votes.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:55 AM

22. Bingo!

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:08 AM

26. 45% say otherwise.

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #26)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:10 AM

27. You're absolutely correct...and the system we have is that the majority wins

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #26)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:17 AM

30. No, 45% voted for him in the primary elections, but those are over (nt)

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Response to LongtimeAZDem (Reply #30)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 05:20 PM

66. 35 to 65....

 

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #26)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:22 AM

32. No. The number is not 45%. Much lower. Like 35%, regardless the votes spoke. Also, another point

 

arguing your point. Over 80% of Sanders supporters have walked into the Clinton camp, so no.... they are not spoiling for a fight.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #32)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:38 AM

37. Do not neglect the fact that many of those that voted for Sanders sis so in an open primary.

 

Most identified themselves as independents. An overwhelming majority of Democrats voted for Hillary.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:27 AM

34. He can do whatever he wants

 

So he is upsetting the establishment? Good for him!

Wanna know why they are upset? Follow the money.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #34)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:33 AM

36. He can do whatever he wants. Calling all of us 'establishment' is suppose

 

to be an insult regardless of the lie in it and we can tell you not to define us in that lie, too.

Sanders follows the money also. This is part of the story Sanders and his supporters have insisted we ignore, that we do not. Sanders is establishment. Sanders is a politician. I do not pretend otherwise. I also expect no more or less.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #34)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:55 AM

63. He has been in public office for 30 years...

He IS establishment!

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Response to Funtatlaguy (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:50 AM

48. Politico click-bait.

We are supposed to act surprised to learn that Sanders is still "fighting" for the thints he promised to fight for, and that he's still "fighting" because they're not yet won.

C'mon, folks. Calm the hell down and stop reading troll sites tor anything more than laughs.

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Response to Funtatlaguy (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:38 AM

108. True, Hillary is the presumptive nominee, but she'd be smart to take Bernie's wise counsel seriously, as it would only benefit her in the general.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #108)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:50 AM

112. Bernie wise? C'mon. Did you read his plans for funding healthcare?

Reagan would have been proud of the fuzzy math.

No, sorry, but Hillary is far wiser than Sanders.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #112)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 10:05 AM

116. This would be one. The College plan though, I think is the most clear on the unlevel playing

 

field Sanders would insist we all participate on. Once I started reading on the consequences of his proposals, I was awestruck in those that chose to ignore the realities.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #116)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 10:41 AM

123. On the face of it, this country should be able to fund free college for all

for $90-billion a year. The question is: how do you fund it?

Sanders' plan was sorta stupid: levy what is basically a sin tax on speculative financial transactions. What's wrong with that?

Well, first, if taking untoward risks in the market with investors' money is a bad thing, you should be passing laws to outlaw or restrict the practice, rather than throwing up your hands, admitting the practice can't be curbed and saying, "what the hell, might as well tax it." Second, the more-effective a sin tax is in curbing the sin, the less revenue it generates over time. Example: it might have made sense to generate money for college by taxing cigarettes back when 50% of the country smoked. But that number is down to 19% now. What do you do when the tax disincentive-izes the practice? Raise it to 100% or more?

Again, Sanders has a lot of ideas that sound good in theory. It's the reality of those ideas that sucks. Which is why I'm against allowing his ideas into the D platform - we're just giving the Rs fodder to run against.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #112)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 04:14 PM

124. You seriously are bringin Reagan into a discussion about Bernie's brilliance?! I read somewhere Bernie's IQ is over 140... Reagan was a blithering idiot!

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #124)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 05:52 PM

125. My IQ is over 140. So what?

The point - which you missed, even though it was obvious - is that like Reagan, Sanders offered people unrealistic ways that he would pay for his social programs. With Reagan, it was trickle down. With Sanders, it was the sin tax I mentioned above to pay for college, and taxes increases across the board that fell short by about 80% to pay for his proposed healthcare plans.

Politicians lying about how inexpensive their wide-ranging policies will be is nothing new, and Sanders' lies remind one of Reagan more than anyone else in recent memory.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:39 AM

6. As David Corn's headline today reads: Can Bernie Take Yes For An Answer?

 

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Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:55 AM

23. I don't believe he ever will take yes for an answer

Nothing will ever be enough to satisfy him. He just keeps moving the goal posts. I don't think we should waste any more time or effort on him.

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Response to MO_Dem (Reply #23)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:09 PM

70. The train has already left the station

and he is not on it. That is his loss.

And yes, I totally agree - no more time and effort wasted.

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #70)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:28 PM

73. Hilarious.

 

As if we won't see any more posts bashing Sanders around here.

The thinking seems to go as follows:

"Hey, he's irrelevant. I don't give him a thought. Think I'll write a post about how irrelevant he is, and how much I don't think about him anymore."

Over and over and over.

Like I said, hilarious. And telling, too.

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Response to bvf (Reply #73)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:31 PM

83. Look, Sanders mouths off shit about Denocrats or Clinton, people will address. That simple.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #83)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:21 PM

85. There's a world of difference

 

separating healthy criticism and "mouth(ing) off shit."

That said, what you seem to be saying is that he's quite relevant, but simply pisses you off by being so.

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Response to bvf (Reply #85)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:37 PM

86. Sanders lost his relevance. More petulance and people do not respect that. And still, insult all

 

Democrats or Clinton and people are going to challenge. I do not get why that seems to be a tough concept for either a small handful of Sanders supporters or Sanders himself.

We all pretty much get, diss our party, and we are gonna call it out.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #86)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:40 PM

88. Irrelevant enough to keep you posting. Uh huh. I see.

 

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Response to bvf (Reply #88)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:42 PM

89. I find Sanders fascinating. Hence, continued conversation. That does not equate to relevance.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #89)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:47 PM

90. Fascinating but irrelevant.

 

Please continue. This is really interesting.

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Response to bvf (Reply #90)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:01 PM

91. Fascinating, hell yes. What privilege and entitlement looks like so very clearly.

 

Irrelevant because privilege and entitlement is not the driving force today, which again, makes it fascinating. To see privilege and entitlement shrivel up is a blessing for us all to progressively move forward. I am looking forward to where we are going. Especially seeing what we could have chosen, and didn't.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #91)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:20 PM

93. *Do* go on.

 

My favorite just now was, "progressively moving forward."

This is gold. Please continue.

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Response to bvf (Reply #93)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:32 PM

94. Go on with what? I said what I wanted to say. If you do not see that we have progressed forward

 

since 2008, then why waste my time with a conversation with you. If you cannot recognize the progressiveness of our female voice, and blacks being a deciding factor in this election, then that is your issue. If you cannot see that leveling the playing field is more important than giving to the white, privileged middle/upper middle class and men, then that is on you.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #94)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 12:16 AM

98. The only thing on me

 

is in trying to figure out why some people have so difficult a time with the language.

I recognize plenty. So do many others, would be my guess.

Proceed, won't you? Free entertainment is always welcome.

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Response to bvf (Reply #98)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:10 AM

99. There is no need for any of us to be mean to other members.

Thank you in advance.

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Response to bvf (Reply #98)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 06:11 PM

126. You must be lots of fun at parties.

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Response to bvf (Reply #85)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 10:13 AM

120. Which alternative are you performing here?

I'm having a tough time finding criticism in your posts. Can you help me out?

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Response to bvf (Reply #73)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:31 AM

103. I haven't seen many posts bashing Sanders in recent weeks, and the few that have....

...for the most part have been removed.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:39 AM

7. He's itching for a spotlight. It seems to be a drug

he can't quit.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #7)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:49 AM

13. More than anything. You are right

he wants the spotlight.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #7)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:52 AM

16. To bathe in the light, lol. Ya. But, he would have actually gotten to do that if he had walked

 

this in integrity. Man, he could have shined. Historically. Now, not so much.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #7)


Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:44 AM

9. Does he want his entire platform adopted?

Somebody needs to remind Bernie that if Democrats wanted that to happen, we would've elected him as our nominee.

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Response to Lord Magus (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:36 AM

55. Yup!

Seems to go over the heads of way too many--including Sanders.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:46 AM

11. They started rallying for it a month ago. Why would we pretend otherwise. It behooves Democrats to

 

Believe Sanders when he states that is exactly what he is after. As they position themselves to cause disruption within and outside the convention.

No one is making anything up, addressing this ahead of time. Sanders himself and certainly his supporters have promised just this. So, we take action against the threat they have provided us, in good faith.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:53 AM

18. It really sounds like he's experiencing an end-of-life crisis.

 

He joined the Democratic Party at the last moment instead of laying the groundwork for a sustained campaign with himself as the leader of the party, something he should have started years earlier.

And now that he has some of his ideas adopted into the platform, he still wants to engage in a convention fight? I know the phrase "He'll never be satisfied" can imply that "giving up" is the only option but it's not and I don't think he ever will be satisfied because he sees this as his "last stand" or something.

Momentum is important, too, and he could contribute to that instead of putting a drag on the convention.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:53 AM

19. It's just a rash. nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:54 AM

21. At this point, it might be the only reasonable answer.

 

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:54 AM

20. NPR played a few lines form the Biden interview that will be played this weekend.

 

Biden stated that he though Sanders would finally endorse Hillary. They allowed Sanders to reply. He said he would only if Hillary agreed to his positions. So, are these the words of a team player and someone that truly wants to defeat Trump? Not hardly.

Sanders will have no say so in the ho the Democratic Party operates. None. He isn't a Democrat. There is nothing the Democratic Party or Hillary can do to appease Sanders, except for Hillary to drop out or for the Party to simply hand the nomination to Sanders. His actions have gone beyond sad and his followers still making excuses for him are almost as bad. I think it is called "enabling".

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:56 AM

24. This is just getting sad now.

 

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #24)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 07:18 PM

79. No. This was getting sad on the first Super Tuesday.

This exceeds the most extreme corners of farcical now.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:12 AM

28. This appears to be a re-run of 1992...

A popular Clinton as nominee, and an iconoclastic Primary opponent who wouldn't work with nominee or the Party.

I recall things worked out fairly well.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:14 AM

29. Such a difficult sheepdog. Bad, Bernie, bad.


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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:33 AM

35. Wow, who cares?

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Response to MoonRiver (Reply #35)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:31 AM

52. Many. n/t

 

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:06 AM

38. I will be there and will ready to stand up to Sanders' sad demands

I doubt that Sanders will be successful in this fight.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #38)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:13 AM

41. These are sad demands? "...a $15 minimum wage, opposition to TPP, and a ban on fracking directly

into the Democratic Platform" ?

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #41)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:39 AM

57. The Minimum wage was agreed to last week

The TPP plank is an attempt by Sanders to attack President Obama and will not be agreed to. I am actually a delegate to the National Convention and I will not voting for Sanders positions and he will lose a floor fight

In addition, Sanders will not be allowed to speak at the convention


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Response to MelissaB (Reply #41)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:40 AM

58. What's sad is his inability to actively work with the Democratic Party.

 

He had his say and some of his proposals were adopted. Does he really view himself as some sort of Messiah whose opinion overrides all others'? No one is saying he needs to stop working for better and better positions. We all should. But as a team.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #41)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 05:29 PM

67. What's sad is that he feels entitled to have his every demand met even though he lost.

Tell me this. If Bernie were the nominee, how would you feel if Hillary demanded that he adopt her entire platform instead of what he and run and won on?

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Response to Lord Magus (Reply #67)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:20 PM

71. Oi!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:12 AM

40. Who?

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:32 AM

44. He is irrelevant at this point

 

It's obvious to me that the Clinton campaign couldn't give a crap what he thinks about anything at this point. And he is the one that caused that to occur. He could have had some influence and leverage, but he blew it.

Having been involved in politics for many years, and knowing many pols, it seems to me that this kind of attitude by Bernie is exactly why Bernie's colleagues in congress don't really care for him, and why he could not persuade very many supers to endorse him.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #44)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:11 AM

50. Couldn't agree more, absolutely spot on...

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #44)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:56 PM

78. Couldn't havesaid it any better!

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #44)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 10:15 AM

121. Yes.

He has passed the point of diminishing returns.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)


Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:10 AM

49. Whatever...anything to stay on the national stage.

 

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 02:42 PM

65. More silliness. nt

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:26 PM

72. Hopefully this is being seen by the GOP the way it looks to the average citizen. nt

 

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:28 PM

74. He's not going to get one

IMO, he'd have more leverage if he had dropped out and endorsed HRC right after the DC primary.

I keep saying: I do not get the strategy.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:44 PM

76. Well, I never. . .

 

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:45 PM

77. He should be banned from the convention. Bernie - you lost. You're not the nominee. Now get lost.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 07:24 PM

80. It's the spotlight ...

... Bernie just can't quit it.

He went from being a little-known politician from a small state to being the centre of national and international attention.

Suddenly he was drawing huge crowds, appearing on political programs, late-night talk shows, and the cover of magazines. His every utterance was reported, discussed, repeated, and journalists clamoured for his opinion on every topic imaginable. His name was on billboards and yardsigns; his image was on T-shirts and banners.

It went to his head - and quickly so. When his supporters started saying that only Bernie could save democracy, only Bernie could achieve progressive goals, only Bernie could beat Trump in the GE, he actually started to believe it.

I think that's why he refuses to concede, refuses to endorse HRC, refuses to even acknowledge that he lost the primary. He doesn't want to leave the spotlight after living in its glow for over a year and, at this point, he's willing to make a damned fool of himself in order to cling to the fame he will never know again in his lifetime.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 07:32 PM

81. What the hell is he thinking...

Pushing for crazy things like Democratic Values....

"Spoiling
for a convention fight."



such phrasing.

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Response to RazBerryBeret (Reply #81)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:29 PM

82. Correction....

What used to be Democratic values.

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Response to pokerfan (Reply #82)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:58 PM

84. right....

now it's all crazy-talk.

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Response to RazBerryBeret (Reply #81)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:40 PM

87. Democrats have been fighting Democratic values long before Sanders voice came into play.

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #87)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:14 PM

92. Nice Freudian slip, there.

 

Democrats have been fighting Democratic values long before Sanders voice came into play.


Really nice!

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #87)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:41 PM

95. When you put it that way... (nt)

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:01 PM

96. How you get to reshape the Democratic Party? You win the nomination!

Which do you think Sanders wants more?

To re-frame the party platform (which no one will care about one week after the convention.)

OR

To ensure that there is still a Democrat in the White House after President Obama moves out
And to ensure that the Supreme Court is run by liberal justices for the next 20 years
And to ensure that Obama care isn't repealed
And to ensure that Wall Street isn't given permission to ruin the economy again.
And to ensure that thin skinned, narcissistic demagogue isn't making war/peace, and economic decisions and doesn't have his finger on eh nuclear button.
And etc.
Etc.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:07 PM

97. oh c'mon man

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:26 AM

100. An itch? This works:

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #100)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:34 AM

104. +10

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:36 AM

106. Here is a good article by Noam Chomsky: this is why Bernie is doing what he is

 

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #106)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 10:06 AM

117. Here is the truth. I do not care why or what we think is the reason, Sanders is doing what he is.

 

What he is doing is wrong. That simple. Too many people agree.

Why we think he is doing it does not matter one bit.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:46 AM

110. Too bad he's not itching to get out there and campaign

for the D nominee.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 09:55 AM

113. The attitude of the OP and many of the posters here of express hostility to Bernie ONLY helps Trump

I know that many of the posters at least implicity believe that Hillary has the election in the bag, and that virtually all of Bernie's base will unite behind her no matter what she does (including making NO further concessions on the platform, not letting him address the Convention after getting 45% of the vote in the primary campaign, etc). Also, his continuing political struggle -- his campaign was AlWAYS about more than just a particular political campaign, but building a political base for a political transformation and a movement for it continuing after the election -- is routinely cast as based on egoism, desire for the limelight, fractiousness, spite, whatever. All of this is in my arrogant opinion (IMAO) sheer nonsense. But above all, neither HRC nor her surrogates all the way down to the grassroots have ANY rational motive for doing this if their goal is to beat Trump in November.

I have been a Bernie supporter since day 1 (and wanted to see him run, AS A DEMOCRAT IN THE PRIMARIES, before "day 1" and support his continued efforts focused on the platform. I have always said I would vote for Hillary against Trump if she got the nomination. But there are MANY Bernie supporters -- maybe no longer heard from on DU -- who feel otherwise. I am NOT convinced that already over 80% of Bernie's supporters have lined up behind Hillary; some posters in recent months reported that their many political colleagues IN SWING STATES WHERE THEY WERE were not going to vote for Hillary and many working class Bernie supporters (nowhere near a majority but still) were considering voting for Trump.

As for the convention, I would NOT assume that all the Hillary delegates will be as disciplined and as staying on message as the Hillary/DebbieWassermanSchultz folk were on the platform committee in general. There might be many platform issues that will get delegates' support across the divide, and be stopped if at all only by the superdelegates. This is healthy democracy and could help the Convention be other than an absolute bore.

Many of the issues (like opposing TPP and more issues on climate, like a suggestion I have been pushing for calling for nationally televised hearings in the Senate -- even in the likely event that the GOP maintain their gerrymandority in the House -- on the 350.org climate issues, as well as platform and other debates about 'closed primaries' and such) are issues that would NOT cost any cumulative number of swing votes in the general. I support a position to the left of Bernie on Palestinian rights, but I know that many Democrats feel strongly that this issue might cost votes in November; on the other hand, it might have a lot of support among many of Hillary's delegates.

The mean-spirited attitude towards Bernie and on any of these platform issues (as if he had no right to seek changes at all, without anything less than having won the primary campaign) ONLY WILL TEND TO ENCOURAGE THE MANY BERNIE SUPPORTERS WHO ARE NOT necessarily going to show up and vote and vote for Hillary in the general. (Honestly, my worry in this area is specifically in the swing states, with little concern if people in NY or CA or MA choose to vote for Jill Stein or something. It is where the election might be close that is crucial -- and constant Bernie-bashing as a temperament will, eg, only tend to drive Bernie's base away. I'll bet more than 20% have either left DU (temporarily or permanently) or are just holding back from participating. Some would say 'good riddance' but this is precisely the problem. Is the goal to WIN the election or, in losing it, blame Bernie and his base?

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #113)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 10:08 AM

118. Over 80% of Sanders supporters have already walked into Clintons camp. You get that, right?

 

At this point, significantly more than Clinton supporters in '08.

We listen. We take this into account. We know what is up. Facts matter.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #118)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 10:10 AM

119. as I suggested in the post, I am less than positive about that 80% figure widely bandied about

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #119)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 10:15 AM

122. Ya, whatever. You get to believe what you want.

 

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 06:26 PM

127. Go home and take a nap, Bernie.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 07:25 PM

128. No fight to be had...he lost

 

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