How are we going to appeal to those in the Rust Belt that are tempted to vote for Trump

[applegrove]

because he is anti-trade Obviously those who are minorities are not fooled by him. But he is polling strong in those states with former manufacturing workers. What should Hillary do

[JI7]

1. she has to get a high turnout of black and hispanic voters

same as Obama did.

but one important thing is that she is likely to do better among white women than obama did so that will help her.

[applegrove]

2. Right. That is not what I asked. We need to appeal to them as workers

and promise to do Keynesian spending during recessions and for the country to fight inflation together (through tight money policies not by keeping workers poor and unemployment up and wages down while the wealthy make out like bandits like what happened during the great recession when Republicans held control of Congress). We need a compact with all workers to share the benefits of trade. We need to promise people that it is no longer a rich take all country if Hillary is elected.

[AgingAmerican]

43. 60% of the Democratic party is white

And roughly half of those are male. Marginalizing a huge chunk of your support base is foolish at best, political suicide at worst.

[JI7]

44. yeah, HIllary Clinton is one of those white democrats . so whites who are real dems are not being

marginalized.

[AgingAmerican]

45. White male Democrats are

You just did it in your above post

[JI7]

46. white male democrats like Bill Clinton are not being marginalized

[AgingAmerican]

49. Marginalization by omission

You just did it again. Thanks for proving my point.

[JI7]

50. most democratic senators, governors , are white men

[AgingAmerican]

51. You seem enamored by elites

You refuse to mention white, lower and middle class Democrats. Marginalization by omission.

It's a recipe for political suicide.

[JI7]

52. most lower and middle class white democrats vote for those "elites"

[TDale313]

3. Come out strongly against the TPP for a start.

Don't let him outflank her on economic populist issues. Yeah, I know... Likely not the track she'll go, but that's your answer.

[applegrove]

4. You never know. The liberal elites are moving back to the left as we

speak.

[Tal Vez]

5. I know one of the things that Clinton can say.

Clinton can remind workers that Trump began his campaign by declaring that one of our problems is that wages are too high in this country.

http://theweek.com/speedreads/588147/donald-trump-kicks-gop-debate-by-saying-american-wages-are-high

What more should she have to say to anyone who works for a living?

[uponit7771]

55. +1

[Doctor Jack]

6. I think it is a myth that there are massive numbers of voters there...

...which are still looking for the steel industry to come back. So many times during the primaries I heard the pundits saying that Trump is appealing to the "Reagan Democrats". The problem for Trump is that the "Reagan Democrats" are all 80 years old now and those areas that were hit hard by the loss of manufacturing jobs 30-40 years ago are mostly depopulated here in 2016. I heard that Trump was planning on racking up massive victories in areas of Pennsylvania that Reagan did well in, in order to win the state. However, no one seems to have told him that those areas have 1/20th the number of people that had in 1980.

The problem with Trump's plan of winning the "rust belt", bringing back manufacturing jobs, appealing to "Reagan Democrats" is that these concepts are almost 40 years out of date. He might as well talk about his plan to compete with the Soviet Union and preach that MTV is corrupting the youth.

[applegrove]

7. I hope you are right.

[Doctor Jack]

8. I saw Mitt Romney's chief strategist in an interview a few months back

He said that so many republican candidates try to appeal to that demographic in the midwest and out east but they always get burned because those voters just don't exist in large numbers anymore.

[doc03]

28. It is not a myth, I live there and I have not seen one pro Hillary sign,

bumper sticker or anything else. I have seen quite a few anti-Hillary signs and stickers. Trump signs are
showing up in a lot of yards. I have seen many bumper stickers, hats, badges and today a couple people wearing Trump t-shirts.
I don't know what she can do other than distancing herself from Bill. Also we are not all 80 years old.

[TeamPooka]

9. "Trump never hired an American to make his ties, clothes or hats why should you think he'll get you

a job?"

[patricia92243]

60. Bingo! This is the way to go. n/t

[TeamPooka]

61. Thank you

[MADem]

10. Point out what a LIAR he is, and how he outsourced jobs making HIS products,

from his suits to his ties to all his stupid shit--Bangladesh, China, Mexico, everywhere but the rust belt...that's where his stuff is made.

?uuid=ze_4qObwEeWpzmgQVcegXw


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-decries-outsourced-labor-yet-he-didnt-seek-made-in-america-in-2004-deal/2016/03/13/4d65a43c-e63a-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html

You can look all day, but you're not going to find a union label...never mind one that says MADE IN USA.

[Jitter65]

13. This would make a good bumper sticker and a silent TV ad. nt

[riversedge]

31. WATCH: Dems unleash July Fourth attack on Trump

Her camp has started in this vein.............




xposted from LBN



Dems unleash July Fourth attack on Trump
Source: The Hill


July 04, 2016, 09:47 am



Dems unleash July Fourth attack on Trump

By Tim Devaney

....................

With the Star-Spangled Banner playing in the background, the DNC released an Independence Day-themed campaign ad Monday that criticizes Trump for manufacturing his luxury line of men’s ties and dress shirts in China, Bangladesh and Indonesia, despite his many complaints about other companies that send jobs overseas.
..........................

The ad shows a recent campaign speech during which Trump calls for Americans to “have more pride buying made in the USA,” and then pivots to news clips of the presumptive Republican presidential nominee defending his decision to manufacture products overseas.


.............

“Trump's dangerous and divisive campaign is as un-American as the products he manufactures anywhere but the USA,” added DNC spokesperson Luis Miranda. "His deceptive campaign against the very business practices he uses is exactly why the American people should reject him in November, and a reminder he lacks the temperament to serve in our nation's highest office.”

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/286431-dems-unleash-july-fourth-attack-on-trump


The ad can be viewed at the link






Tweet:


The Hill ?@thehill 39m39 minutes ago

WATCH: Dems unleash July Fourth attack on Trump http://hill.cm/rgX3dr5
35 retweets 34 likes

[kimbutgar]

40. This picture with his other clothes should be put up on giant billboards all over

The red states and rust belt. And maybe mailers with the same picture. He won't bringing back jobs to the US because he has to make bigger profits for himself by manufacturing overseas.

With a link to educate his gullible supporters on what a fraud he really is....a con man.

[MADem]

47. +1,000! nt

[uponit7771]

11. As in the Brexit vote its not trade that they care mostly about its the "others" and the "others"...

... being placed in their social position space where they think they're exclusive.

tRumps appeal is to the rust belts social position space under the guise of economic suppression.

Real hard to fight that with logic so it has to be with number of votes

[Jitter65]

12. Start by telling them the truth about where all the jobs went and why and why it is not ALL

about trade. And tell them why most of those jobs are not coming back. As the President tried to explain, US Steel is still making steel in the US, they just don't need as many workers... (automation, new technology, new materials used in place of steel). Then give them a reasonable, not pie in the sky, plan for training them so that their children and children s children will have good paying jobs that will be need for the 21st century. Give them a plan that will promise and detail how investment is hoped to be enticed to develop new industries in their areas and show them hove technology can produce new kinds of jobs for which they can be trained and how these jobs will be safer, cleaner and needed.

[uponit7771]

56. +1

[Funtatlaguy]

14. Give them all monster truck tickets

Fir Election Day. And tell them the real Election Day is Wednesday not Tuesday .

[B Calm]

15. She should promise to repeal NAFTA.

[sofa king]

16. Honestly? We don't.

There is this infuriating phenomenon called the Backfire Effect in which conservatives believe the lie even more when a liberal contradicts it. That's why Hannity had his Colmes. So arguing about the truth of one of Trump's lies actually generates support for Trump.

The only successful tactic I have seen was that used by President Obama in the 2008 debates, where Mitt Romney deliberately lied numerous times in an effort to antagonize the President into correcting him. Instead, the President allowed Romney to lie and used his response time to talk about actual issues.

It's almost impossible to gauge the success of the President's tactic, because the result was not increased support or changed minds, but rising disinterest and apathy among Republican voters. The debates were boring and annoying, but I am convinced that that path put President Obama outside of the margin of error, so that the election was not close enough to steal.

Or another way to look at it is people who support Trump support him because they're not real good at figuring things out for themselves. They look for signs--like annoyed liberals--that tell them who to trust. It doesn't have to be logical or reasonable because Trump supporters are neither of those things.

Mrs. Clinton's best option is to appear Presidential and talk right past Trump, pretty much at every opportunity, for every time she confronts him directly, she is generating support for Trump. It sounds easy, but I can't do it in my personal life. I hope she can!

[Squinch]

36. This is an excellent post, and very very true. Thanks. (I'm going to try this IRL too.)

[AgingAmerican]

48. I agree completely

When you try to appeal to voters on the other side, you marginalize your own base in doing so. Not worth the damage.

She needs to adopt policies that have the best outcome for the largest number of people. That's how you appeal to voters.

[BobbyDrake]

17. Cut bait on the "white working class" then. If minorities can see through Trump but the WWC can't...

Then fuck them. It's clear that racism matters more to them than progress or prosperity.

[geek tragedy]

18. Focus on voters that are persuadable. nt

[whatthehey]

19. We're not

Obligatory notice that should be obvious but is sadly necessary on this site: When people refer to a demographic segment they must, logically enough, speak about it in generalities applicable to the aggregate whole, not universalities applicable to every single member. Thus "African Americans favor Democrats" is based on polling that consistently shows 90% give or take partisan support. That still means there are millions of Republican AAs as individuals, but as a demographic group, they prefer Democrats. Men are taller than women as a group even though many millions of each gender are in the opposite relative height positions. Asian-Americans have higher incomes than Hispanics even though there are huge swathes of poor Asians and wealthy Latinos. The South votes Republican reliably even though millions in it, me included, always do the opposite. References to groups are always group-based aggregates, and cannot rationally be rebutted by individual exceptions. Understood?

OK now hopefully we can address the question.

The blue collar white traditional male demographic is gone. It's not coming back for at least a generation if not more. It doesn't matter how much better we are at offering investment in jobs or training or infrastructure. It doesn't matter if we ripped up every trade deal and set 500% tariffs on every import (any anti-trade types know we just did exactly that on Chinese steel by the way? Did it change white blue collar support?) and a billion dollar surtax on every company that outsources a plant. Do people who whine about "neoliberal oligarchs" and such claptrap ever actually talk to the blue collar white male bloc? I do. I came from that group. As a fat, slovenly-dressed tattooed bearded guy I look the part still. I spend a lot of free time in bars and sports games and dive restaurants talking to that group. I've heard every damn RWNJ attack against Obama and Clinton (both of them) come out of almost every white working class man on every bar stool next to mine for over a quarter century, thousands of them. Know how many times those complaints have been about trade policy or economic elitism however phrased? None. Fuck all.

No the complaints about liberals (always used as an insult) always fall into three related categories. Weak, unpatriotic, and effeminate. Before I became disabled I had the size and intimidation to not worry about arguing with them. I was never called a job killer, an elitist, or even (although yes there's plenty of racism in that group) a race traitor. I was called gay and Anti-American and the banned p word countless times, and always those things.

In that culture where manliness is aggression, and traditionalism, and self-reliance, belonging to a party that reacts to any perceived national sleight by any means other than immediate massive military response, that wants to level the playing field for the (mostly not white and male) disadvantaged, and that wants to extend rights to the non-traditional, and that wants to help the needy, is weak, and gay, and effeminate. REAL men aren't Democrats to them. Democrats are not REAL Americans either. Nuance and introspection about national actions are anathema.

Why are black lower class working men different? I talk to them less so I know less. I'm not one so I know much less. But if I were to guess other than the obvious fact of being on the other side of that tilted playing field, the culture is likely more collective and less individualistic. White men don't refer to white men they have just met as brother very often. They don't wear an irrevocable badge of joint "other"ness and group belonging on their very faces. Generations of that will likely engender a more empathetic approach to community that leans more D than R.

So how would you get that group back? No matter how hawkish you think Obama and Clinton are, it's not nearly enough for the WWCM. No matter how slowly you think they are pushing equal access and equal rights for non-traditional (hetero white Christian nuclear families several generations removed from immigration) Americans, it's way too fast for the WWCM.

It cannot be done. And no the vaunted millennials in this group are little better. They ARE better on race, and sexuality etc. But not enough, and age often does change opinion. Will their kids be better still? Probably. But unless we REALLY become clones of the GOP, not just in the minds of clueless poutrage purists, we're not getting the WWCM demographic back until at least then.

[snot]

35. Very interesting; thank you!

This may not be the best word, but just for short-hand, it sounds like WWCM's don't want to identify with a party that lacks "macho"-ness. So if Dems ever want to get those voters back, they need to re-macho-ify the party image. (Another term might be something along the lines of "alpha-dog-ness.&quot

Trump certainly does seem to project that kind of assertiveness – "I'm tough! I'm independent! I can beat up the other guy and his dad!" – though he seems clownish and immature to most of us here.

When I think back to the battles people fought to achieve unionization and strong labor laws, that fight certainly seems macho. I wonder if there's a way that that kind of imagery can be drawn on.

[Squinch]

37. Another great post in this thread! Very interesting that it is all about manhood.

I have always known that appealing to them means embracing things we simply don't embrace and it isn't something we should try. I just never got why they are the way they are.

[snot]

42. Here's something that might be usable:

From http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/7/2/1544524/-Trump-Paid-Union-Busters-500-000-In-Failed-Effort-To-Keep-Maids-From-Unionizing-At-His-Hotels : "Trump Paid Union-Busters $500,000 In Failed Effort To Keep Maids From Unionizing At His Hotel."

[whatthehey]

59. Might, but I think unions are not the rallying cry they once were

Unions helped raise up the workers from powerless serfs. They fought for things we take for granted. They delivered a working middle class. But nigh everyone who saw that is dead, and we pretty much already have the votes of most people who read social history. For the working lives of almost all voters unions have been at the very best for a very few a way to extract a few grudging concessions until the next time negotiations favor owners. It's easier to show outsiders the corruption of union bosses, the venality of protecting feckless members, the absurdity of piece rates and demarcation resistance taken to the extreme. 90%+ outside the government sector do not even experience unions, and it's easy to make them resentful the same way it's easy to make white collar folks scornful with the above, and to be honest unions have often helped make it easy by defending the indefensible and pursuing the ridiculous.

We have some areas of labor where unions could, if you'll excuse the Trump/Reaganism, be great again. Could do that transformational work again, but that would mean wotking in segments dominated by immigrants documented and not, or minorities, and then we are back to being champions only of the "other" again which just feeds WWCM resentment.

Sure white men, a small ratio, work in conditions that resemble pre-union days in a few token ways. Sure they could benefit from unions. But for white men at least it cannot today be the great broad based rallying cry that it was for thei forebears many decades ago.

[uponit7771]

57. OP WORTHY!! I don't think winning them over should be the goal, deflating their candidate works usin

... using the words of people who are like them does

[Sheepshank]

20. It's not just trade. Trump promised a resurgence of the coal industry.

How does one compete with an out and out right lie like that? Those people are hurting for jobs and decent pay, the appeal of going back to yesteryear, is practically insurmountable IMHO.

I think the only way to combat the lie is to make a true offering of incentives...like displaced miners get first dibs on renewable energy training and job openings.

[amandabeech]

21. When Bill signed NAFTA he signed away blue collar votes.

When he signed Most Favored Nation Trading status for China, he signed away any hope at all.

Not until everyone who remembers what things used to be like is dead, will Dems have any appeal to the blue collar vote.

Writing to you from the Rust Belt.

[JI7]

22. not true most black and hispanic blue collar workers vote dem

[amandabeech]

24. But whites don't.

Bernie did VERY, VERY well in some Rust Belt states, and it wasn't just whites voting for him.

Exit polls show that Sanders received 30% of the black vote in Michigan, according to the Huff Post. The stat is buried toward the bottom of this article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-michigan-polls-were-wrong_us_56dfaa6ce4b0b25c91801d95

Those trade agreements helped everyone who worked in the plants, not just whites.

[JI7]

25. not as well as trump

[amandabeech]

26. Bernie got 30% of the black vote. Trump didn't.

Hillary won that primary and she is the candidate, and I hope that she wins over Trump.

But . . . she may have more trouble in the Rust Belt than Bernie would have.

That's just how it is.

Hillary carries Bill's baggage out here, and I don't see any way around it.

Bill can't win out here now, and Hillary will have trouble, too.

She has to get Bernie's voters and try to get some Republicans who can't stand Trump.

Obama's immigration policies are not popular. You can tell people that they're racist until a blue moon rises, but it won't make them change their votes.

Hillary simply isn't a good candidate for this part of the country at this time, and I don't think that she has that many options to rectify the situation, unfortunately.

[JI7]

30. Hillary got a lot more than 30 percent of the black vote

And sanders voters are already supporting her.

Obama won both elections and lost the white vote both elections.

[amandabeech]

32. Hillary has baggage here that Obama didn't.

The Rust Belt isn't a lock.

If I knew what she could say up here that would fit with the Platform and be helpful, I'd say so. I'm not shy, but I just don't have any answers for this.

[JI7]

34. Hillary beat Obama with those voters in the 2008 primary

[virginia mountainman]

54. NAFTA is a *very* dirty word around these parts..

And it is remembered who pushed it, and signed it into law.

In all honesty, between NAFTA, TPP, Gun Control, and the recent televised statement "I'm going to put a lot of coal miners out of work" talk..

It will be an extremely hard sell in Appalachia.

[Trenzalore]

23. Anti-Trade isn't the issue

It is the cultural issues and the immigration issues.

A $15 minimum wage should be enough economically to get them on board but that is not what it is about.

[jdadd]

27. I did a little digging

and found that the loudest pro Trump voices, at the local breakfast spot, are not even registered to vote....Just racist Big mouth rednecks.....Yes I live in the rust belt....I hope this is a trend.....

[pampango]

29. Trump is blaming the Mexicans and the Chinese for our problems. Therein does not lie the solution

to our problems.

Please Hillary do not try to out-Trump Trump. If voters have a choice between Trump and Trump-lite, our odds are not good.

[JoePhilly]

33. Ads showing Trump products all being made in CHINA!!

[uponit7771]

58. +1, neither candidate has any credibility with the opposite group but people who look like them

... do and so does facts like his own products.

Suppressing his vote is more likely to work then trying to convince them to vote for her...

Like Obama did use tRumps own words against him

[Recursion]

38. We won't, and we don't need to

We need to stop chasing this phantom.

[politicaljunkie41910]

39. I suppose we could try harder to educate them about the facts, but then again

I'm sure they would just stick their fingers in their ears and say, "La La La La, I'm not listening to you. I can't hear you. Stop talking to me. La La La La"

This topic was discussed on C-SPAN's Washington Journal this morning.
Below is an article that tries to explain part of the problem. People living in the Rust Belt need to be told the truth. Those jobs making steel are not coming back. We cannot produce steel competitively with those nations currently producing steel. Instead of going backwards, we need to be looking forward to the future with those things we can produce more competitively.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-29/trump-offers-magic-not-answers-in-rust-belt

One that Hillary keeps mentioning is clean energy jobs. But until we start giving people the truth and stop pandering to the ignorant, like Trump does, we will not be able to deal with the problem as a nation. I hope the media, now that the Primaries are over, will start a drumbeat and continue to call out Trump on his lies and lack of ideas and specificity on how he would deal with the these issues and not just huffing and puffing and threatening to blow the house down, when he has no ideas on how to fix the problem.

[CobaltBlue]

41. Democrats carry majority of the Rust Belt

If they’re losing there…they’re losing in a landslide.

What some people are bothered by are white people who are blue collar being willing to routinely vote Reublican.

The fact is, whites giving Republicans support, do so by greater degrees in the Confederate states. For example: In 2008, John McCain received 73 percent of the white vote in South Carolina. Whites were 71 percent size of the overall vote in the state. That 71 x 0.73 equaled 51.83 percent, which was more than 50 percent; more than enough for John McCain to carry the state. But John McCain nationally received 55 percent of the vote from whites. They were 74 percent the size of the overall vote nationwide. That 74 x 0.55 equaled 40.70 percent. John McCain nationally received 45.66 percent. So, the level of whites’ Republican support amounted to 127 percent greater in South Carolina than it was nationwide.

Democrats are winning in the Rust Belt—states like Illinois, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin have not carried for a Republican presidential candidate since the 1980s. Ohio is the most reputable bellwether state.

I don’t see the Democrats having to worry about the Rust Belt unless a realignment of the two parties are happening … or it is an election in which a Republican wins the U.S. Popular Vote decisively and, in the process, picks off the states. (Illinois would be the hardest to reach.)

[silvershadow]

53. He certainly has a few ears around these parts. I see a return of the Reagan Democrats, sadly.

Several are personal friends. I have tried and tired to get through to them during this primary, to no avail. At least one is a union member, for what it is worth.

[CobaltBlue]

62. silvershadow—Why?

What have they said?

[silvershadow]

63. Three of them appear to be poised to vote for Trump.