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joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:29 AM Jul 2016

House of Cards: If Bill didn't meet with Lynch, would we have had Comey's public recommendation?

See, Bill's no actual fool. He knows a damn conflict of interest. Common sense. But by creating it, he forced Lynch to effectively hand the decision to prosecute to Comey.

What could have happened, instead, is that Comey would have gone public with all the evidence, WITHOUT making a recommendation. To the point where it fell on Lynch to make a decision.

Bill Clinton made a master stroke. This could have become an innuendo laden clusterfuck for weeks as we awaited Lynch's decision.

70 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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House of Cards: If Bill didn't meet with Lynch, would we have had Comey's public recommendation? (Original Post) joshcryer Jul 2016 OP
I dont think they chess matched it that way but it did work out great smorkingapple Jul 2016 #1
MSNBC's Justice correspondent Pete Williams says "YES" Hortensis Jul 2016 #25
Yes, but he could have made the evidence available without... joshcryer Jul 2016 #30
YES. tallahasseedem Jul 2016 #2
I'm not calling a conspiracy! joshcryer Jul 2016 #10
I updated my post. tallahasseedem Jul 2016 #16
I hate to tell you this but Rush Limbaugh said the same thing underpants Jul 2016 #3
He did? joshcryer Jul 2016 #5
Link underpants Jul 2016 #21
He's implying collusion there. joshcryer Jul 2016 #27
Disparaging Bill Clinton? Thinkingabout Jul 2016 #4
No? joshcryer Jul 2016 #6
Andrea Mitchel is on MSNBC making this same point right now. She mentioned Bill and Lynch and BobbyDrake Jul 2016 #7
She is nothing but a hack. BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #17
I've seen, and unfortunately had to work with, many women like that. calimary Jul 2016 #32
I am so sorry that you had that experience. BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #33
Aw, MAN, BlueMTexpat! Some of the things I went through... calimary Jul 2016 #35
That is quite an experience ... BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #36
Bill Clinton nominated Loretta lynch in the 90's La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #8
Exactly. joshcryer Jul 2016 #12
Interesting theory... you may be right. DCBob Jul 2016 #9
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #11
Oh bull MaggieD Jul 2016 #14
Big Dawg off the hook! flamingdem Jul 2016 #13
If this is the case, this was, indeed, a masterstroke by Bill Clinton! BlueCaliDem Jul 2016 #15
I'm not saying he saw this outcome, mind you. joshcryer Jul 2016 #20
The Big Dog is still sly like a fox brush Jul 2016 #18
It's brilliant. joshcryer Jul 2016 #24
I think that's exactly right. okasha Jul 2016 #46
you might think that; i couldn't possibly comment ;) unblock Jul 2016 #19
Nah, the thinking is simple. joshcryer Jul 2016 #23
that's not the choice your o.p. presents. unblock Jul 2016 #26
I don't think it was intentional. joshcryer Jul 2016 #29
I had wondered if he had deliberately played it this way. Ilsa Jul 2016 #22
I'm tired of people asking the clinton's about every move they make. Cheney had shares samsingh Jul 2016 #28
Well, wait a second PJMcK Jul 2016 #31
You and me both, samsingh. calimary Jul 2016 #34
I'm not religious but... "Amen!!" Her Sister Jul 2016 #38
Its tiresome and obvious Cosmocat Jul 2016 #39
Wait, your argument is that Clinton meeting w/Lynch forced Comey to soften his tone? Bucky Jul 2016 #37
No, I'm saying Comey was made to make a public recommendation. joshcryer Jul 2016 #40
Thanks. Bucky Jul 2016 #41
I completely agree what Bill did was wrong. joshcryer Jul 2016 #42
powerful people act differently than ordinary citizens. Bucky Jul 2016 #43
Power definitely played a role. joshcryer Jul 2016 #45
he thought it all up while playing golf with Trump. figured Gabi Hayes Jul 2016 #44
I think it's all Kabuki. bemildred Jul 2016 #47
There's that. joshcryer Jul 2016 #57
I agree. bemildred Jul 2016 #59
Bill's position is nicely ambiguous, as you point out. bemildred Jul 2016 #60
My OP fails for implying foresight. joshcryer Jul 2016 #63
Well I don't think he saw any downside, as I think you said. bemildred Jul 2016 #65
Bill's poor self control... joshcryer Jul 2016 #66
I think he really wants his wife to get elected, I do. nt bemildred Jul 2016 #67
Highly unlikely that Bill had any such plan. No mater stroke. Maybe some dumb luck. Vattel Jul 2016 #48
I never argued for a "plan." joshcryer Jul 2016 #49
okay, but I doubt that there was any "masterstroke" involved. Vattel Jul 2016 #53
The OP may be correct; the meeting might have forced Comey to get off the pot. Sancho Jul 2016 #50
With the replies I am going to go with lucky. joshcryer Jul 2016 #54
You admire this??? Faux pas Jul 2016 #51
I fucking love politics. joshcryer Jul 2016 #55
One thing... Mike Nelson Jul 2016 #52
And, I allege, it was not by intent. joshcryer Jul 2016 #56
I don't think your premise follows logically. DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #58
sorry had to leave before finishing DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #61
Link? joshcryer Jul 2016 #62
if I remember correctly she said when she was interviewed that she would abide by the DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #64
If that's the case then maybe I'm off base. joshcryer Jul 2016 #70
Wouldn't it have been awfully unusual to go public with all the evidence? pnwmom Jul 2016 #68
I think he prepared the "tongue lashing." joshcryer Jul 2016 #69

smorkingapple

(827 posts)
1. I dont think they chess matched it that way but it did work out great
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:30 AM
Jul 2016

Comey is a Republican and they love him, so his opinion is unimpeachable

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
25. MSNBC's Justice correspondent Pete Williams says "YES"
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:54 AM
Jul 2016

to this question, that the FBI Director would have made a statement regardless.

For weeks he's been asking the FBI, if no charges are filed, how will the press ever know when the FBI's investigation is done and would they make an announcement?

He was told they "were already considering that," and his conclusion from that was that a plan to have the director make this announcement was "already in the works."



joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
30. Yes, but he could have made the evidence available without...
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 12:12 PM
Jul 2016

...giving a recommendation, or one in private to the AG herself.

This made him have to make a public recommendation.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
10. I'm not calling a conspiracy!
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:35 AM
Jul 2016

I think Bill honestly saw no harm in meeting with her and if there was some conflict if interest complaint it wood only benefit him.

tallahasseedem

(6,716 posts)
16. I updated my post.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:42 AM
Jul 2016

Sorry fellow DUer...holiday hangover. Words jumbled. Please accept my heart felt apologies!

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
27. He's implying collusion there.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:59 AM
Jul 2016

And holy crap that's the first time I've heard Rush in years, he's gotten so much nastier.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
7. Andrea Mitchel is on MSNBC making this same point right now. She mentioned Bill and Lynch and
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:33 AM
Jul 2016

the unprecedented type of statement this was from Director Comey.

BlueMTexpat

(15,366 posts)
17. She is nothing but a hack.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:42 AM
Jul 2016

At one time, she may have had principles. But that was likely back when most DUers were toddlers, if not gleams.

It's a shame but she fell into the "Queen Bee" syndrome and REALLY dislikes many successful and professional women.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
32. I've seen, and unfortunately had to work with, many women like that.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 12:46 PM
Jul 2016

Women who, in effect, hated their own. HATED and resented that there were other women (in some cases ME) who were breaking those barriers either along with them, or even WORSE, who had beat them to it and done it first (which, again, would be ME). In my case, it was because I just happened, by the random happenstance of my birth, coming a year or more before theirs, to get there first. And be hire-able first. And come out of college ready for the job market first. And have sufficient qualifications ready to go, first. Not a thing I can do about that. But some, and it was mostly other women who did, deeply resented me for it and saw me as being in their way. And what was REALLY irritating for me was to hear some of the men gossiping about looking forward to watching a good catfight.

BlueMTexpat

(15,366 posts)
33. I am so sorry that you had that experience.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 12:53 PM
Jul 2016

And like you, I HATE how some men not only look forward to "catfights," but actively provoke them. But I hate it even more when such attitudes come from women, whom one would think would be more conscious of the collective struggle.

I was generally very fortunate with my work environment, both with women and with men. But I know too many who had experiences more like your own.

That must change. Women with attitudes like Andrea Mitchell's must either change those attitudes or get the hell out! That goes for men who have those attitudes too.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
35. Aw, MAN, BlueMTexpat! Some of the things I went through...
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 02:26 PM
Jul 2016

Jesus Mary and Joseph...

This makes me think back to when I landed this amazing job at a big network that was based in New York. They'd been recruiting for this new project and had been air-checking people in multiple major markets across the country. None of us realized this at the time. They came to me. Offered me the job. But it meant relocating to New York. I didn't really want to, and my husband DEFINITELY didn't want to. So I politely declined. I guess they wanted me really badly because they came back to me and offered me more. I still said no. It finally got to "so you're saying you will not take this job if it means you have to move to New York?" I said, gulping and fearing I was screwing myself forever, "yeah, 'fraid so. I can't do it. Can't move to NY." So they came back to me yet again and said they'd figured out how I could do the job from L.A, after spending a brief time in New York, training, before they relocated me back to SoCal. THEN, I said "YES!!!!!! Hell Yeah! Sold American!!!!"

Well, I didn't realize that they'd also pitched these gigs to two other people working in L.A. Neither he nor she balked and both of them took the jobs as offered. It was only later when we all assembled in NY - me knowing it was for only three months, and I was sworn to secrecy - that trouble started. Even before anybody knew the extent of what had been offered to me.

I remember this one really key day. The young woman who was one of those two other L.A. people had received a memo from the News VP in charge of our new venture. She was visibly disturbed by it. So much so that she was taking it around the newsroom and showing other people, and pointing very clearly and noticeably to part of the memo toward the bottom. Wanted to make sure everyone she was showing the memo to did not miss whatever was written at the end of the body of the message. I noticed this. She was at the end of her shift. I'd come in later, to start reading in because mine was the next shift, after hers. So I was in my reading-in phase that always started my shift - as was the case with everybody coming in to start their on-air shift. I couldn't help noticing she was pointing to the bottom of the page, then exchanging "knowing" glances with whoever she was showing it to, and sneering. I saw she was upset and I spoke up. "What's wrong? What's up, (I'll call her) Shirley?" She ignored me, and continued elsewhere through the room, doing the same thing, showing them the memo, pointing to some really offending point at the bottom of that memo, and sneering, making that same face, again and again. She TOTALLY ignored me and I never got to see whatever it was that had upset her.

UNTIL LATER.

As it happened, I had made friends with the secretary of the News VP. Just independently. We just connected and hit it off, somehow, and we started hanging out together and getting lunch together or dinner together and our friendship deepened. I still love her and think fondly of her even though we've kinda lost track of each other in all these years! We did find each other on Facebook, though, and we're definitely Facebook friends!

Anyway, that night, we were hanging out, again. I mentioned that Shirley had been really upset earlier that day. Told my friend what Shirley had done, all over the newsroom, and how I didn't know what was upsetting her and she wasn't sharing whatever it was with me, but MAN she was really upset. The next day, my friend called me into her office. She dug into a file and brought out a piece of paper with lots of writing on it. It was a copy of the memo she had typed up for her boss. It was THAT same memo that Shirley had been showing around the newsroom (to everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE, but me). My friend showed me that memo, while covering up the main body of the memo so it couldn't be seen. But she pointed to the bottom of the page, a paragraph she left open and visible, and pointed to it and looked at me. As if to say - "you mean THIS?"

And HOLY CANNOLI!!!! I couldn't believe it! The memo had obviously been a critique of Shirley's air work and writing, and evidently included several points, very likely some good (you should do more of this) AND some bad (you should not do this). That paragraph at the bottom of that page, exactly to which Shirley had been pointing when she was busily showing that memo around the newsroom to everybody but me, stated, in summary, that Shirley needed to try to sound more like ME! That mine was the style, delivery, and writing, that they were looking for, and that they wanted everybody to try to do it the way I was doing it. OH GOD SHE HATED THAT!!!! No wonder she was pissed off! No wonder she was showing that memo around to everybody but me, and singling out that bottom paragraph! No wonder! And she was one of the two other people from L.A. who uprooted themselves and moved to New York, too. MAN, when THAT part finally came out, you would not believe the resentment, the cold shoulders, the nastiness, the whispering campaigns, the back-stabbing, gossip-mongering, and other shit that I had to deal with. NO WONDER!

Hell, BlueMTexpat, ALL I was trying to do was sound good, do my job, show up on time, write cleverly, do what I understood they wanted me to do, in the way and style that I understood they wanted me to do it. I never meant or attempted to "take" anything from any of them. I never saw it as a zero-sum game - the way they evidently did. I never saw it as snatching or conniving to cheat them out of something THEY had or that THEY had been given or that THEY had earned, or otherwise deny them anything that was "rightfully theirs." Again, my cardinal sin was - being in their way.

EVERYTHING adverse that I see and hear and read about Hillary Clinton gets filtered through experiences like that. Can't help it. Experiencing shit like that has leavened EVERY opinion I have of her and the way I see her and the way I view how she's been treated, attacked, insulted, maligned, schemed against, and frankly, PERSECUTED. In a VERY VERY teeny way, I can totally relate.

Haters gotta hate. And it should be considered - what that says about the haters, NOT about the object of their hatred.

BlueMTexpat

(15,366 posts)
36. That is quite an experience ...
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 07:17 PM
Jul 2016

and how traumatic for you! It is true that too often those who connive and cheat project exactly those faults on others, never realizing that THEY are the problems. They can't understand that MOST normal people try to do as you did: try to do what the job entails, to show up, and try to be the kind of person that their employers THOUGHT they were getting.

And yes, Hillary HAS always shown up and she has performed. She has not merely pulled grandstand stunts or taken positions on issues that she knew would never fly, just so when those issues failed as they were bound to do without compromise, she could say that she was purer than thou. She has put her head down and done the work. She has listened to others and brought them along with her so that together they could accomplish good things for others. She has never failed to mention their contributions and has shown them how much she appreciates their input. She is not the kind of prima donna or diva that someone like Andrea Mitchell is.

Yes, Hillary has been vilified for years - and during this election cycle - by people who can't hold a candle to her. She is head and shoulders above her main primary opponent and light years ahead of Don the Con.

This, above all, is true: Haters gotta hate. And it should be considere - what that says about the haters, NOT about the object of their hatred.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
8. Bill Clinton nominated Loretta lynch in the 90's
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:34 AM
Jul 2016

I suspect lynch could never have made that announcement without being accused of being prejudiced

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
12. Exactly.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:38 AM
Jul 2016

And if one think s for a minute that the Republicans wanted a public, complete, and total exoneration of Clinton that's so wrong. They wanted a nice quiet by the book thing handing the case off.

Response to joshcryer (Original post)

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
15. If this is the case, this was, indeed, a masterstroke by Bill Clinton!
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:42 AM
Jul 2016

Seeing it from your p.o.v., you could be right! Thanks for pointing it out, jc.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
20. I'm not saying he saw this outcome, mind you.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:46 AM
Jul 2016

I do think he sincerely wanted to meet with Lynch but didn't think it would have a bad outcome.

brush

(53,764 posts)
18. The Big Dog is still sly like a fox
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:43 AM
Jul 2016

He saw an opportunity to make the DOJ and FBI get off the pot and he took it.

What was it, 3-4 days after "TarmacGhazi" the FBI finally interviewed Hillary, and 3 days after that the FBI director recommends no charges.

Bill Clinton made this happen.

unblock

(52,196 posts)
19. you might think that; i couldn't possibly comment ;)
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:45 AM
Jul 2016

no, file it under "better to be lucky than good."

you're suggesting that bill deliberately and successfully threaded the needle of bringing just enough public outcry to shift the decision from lynch to comey but not enough public outcry to cause greater damage than the limited benefit of having comey make the decision instead of lynch.

that's quite an act, even if was carefully thought out, but in fact it was an unplanned meeting.

you could write it that way in house of cards where you write all the players and the outcomes.
in real life, you don't try to do things so precisely.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
23. Nah, the thinking is simple.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:52 AM
Jul 2016

Bill knows it's a conflict if interest. Worst case they have to apologize and Lynch has to recuse herself, but if she did that, then the decision falls on Comey. So my feeling is Bill thought there was no actual downside from the meeting no matter what happened. He did appoint her, they are friends.

Which makes more sense, Bill Clinton, a famously scandal ridden politican forgetting about common sense conflict of interest etiquette, or him thinking it over for a few minutes and failing to think of a downside to meeting an old friend?

unblock

(52,196 posts)
26. that's not the choice your o.p. presents.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:58 AM
Jul 2016

sure, i'll agree that it's quite likely clinton thought the encounter would be a complete non-event.

probably didn't occur to him that it would capture the media's attention. in any event, it's only a problem if they actually, materially discussed the case, which they both are smart enough not to.

your o.p. rather implies that clinton deliberately set off just the right amount of mini-scandal to shift the decision to comey.

i'm disagreeing with the idea that that was intentional.


joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
29. I don't think it was intentional.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 12:07 PM
Jul 2016

I think it was happenstance that the best worst case happened. He doesn't have to give it a lot of thought, just, what happens if people complain? Concluding that the worst case would be beneficial. It's a very quick calculation.

My OP may come off that way, but I'm asking a question. If Bill didn't do it, would Comey have come out so publicly about this? Ergo, Bill doing it set the ball in motion.

He could not have envisioned the best worst case scenario actually happening. See, Comey made it clear Clinton did negligently use classified data. If he gave the case over to Lynch and let her decide, it could've been terrible. But Bill not seeing a downside to the meeting set everything into motion.

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
22. I had wondered if he had deliberately played it this way.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 11:52 AM
Jul 2016

I see no reason for him and LL to have to discuss so much that they have in common while on the tarmac. It never made sense to me until now.

samsingh

(17,595 posts)
28. I'm tired of people asking the clinton's about every move they make. Cheney had shares
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 12:02 PM
Jul 2016

in haliburton when he lied us into war and he was asked fewer questions that the Clinton's have to answer about why they drink a certain type of coffee

PJMcK

(22,031 posts)
31. Well, wait a second
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 12:38 PM
Jul 2016

What kind of coffee do the Clintons drink at home? Coffee is an imported commodity, you know. Which country did they get their coffee from? You do know that narcotics and other contraband are often hidden in coffee to throw off drug sniffing dogs? I'm not saying that the Clintons did anything wrong. Other people are saying it and if we could only get our hands on those missing emails that were conveniently scrubbed off her servers then we'd know much, much more about the Clintons' coffee.

Maybe Secretary Clinton drinks tea. Just sayin'.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
34. You and me both, samsingh.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 01:33 PM
Jul 2016

They don't fool me. I KNOW they hate her. That's just plain ol' fact. Even my friend who spouts that same old Pox Noise shit - "I don't hate her. I just don't trust her." Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. Quit being cute. You DO hate her. Why don't you just admit it? You hate her guts and you resent the hell outta her. You hate the very fact that she exists, to rattle your comfort zone about a woman's "proper place." HOW DARE she intrude on your cozy little worldview that women should shut up and stay home and bake cookies, regardless what gifts they were born with, regardless what contributions they've made, regardless what achievements they've accomplished, regardless what dreams they've dreamed or goals they've set and met. Regardless. Haters gotta hate. And I think it says more about THEM than it does about her. A SHITLOAD more.

Since I've been through that kind of shit (granted - in a MUCH less prominent way than anything at Hillary Clinton's level) and faced similar hostility and resentment and efforts to screw me and stab me in the back and turn my boss or supervisor against me or spread rumors and shit about me in order to force me out of my job (which invariably, somebody else farther down the food chain thought should be rightfully his, OR hers), from the "who the hell does she think she is" department, THIS IS the lens through which I look at Hillary.

I had enemies, too. Whether I wanted them or not. Without even trying! And certainly not EVER intending to! And again, let me say that I'm a tiny speck on the back of a tiny flea, compared to Hillary Clinton. So is my experience and resume, versus hers. But I can totally relate. It always amazed me when I realized that I had made enemies in my business, thousands of miles away, from people I didn't know, never met, or only knew casually, having met them at some broadcasting convention or other such thing. People who resented my even being there. My existence! Broadcasting was and is and remains VERY competitive. Just by being, just by EXISTING, I was in the way of other women maybe slightly younger, who may have graduated a year or more after I did, may have entered the workforce later than I did simply because they were younger. Most of the women I worked with were ambitious. Just like I was. And most of them were cordial and professional and just trying to make their way and cut their own mustard. But there were those, and some were male as well, who resented the very fact that I was there in whatever job it might have been - and not them. They wanted that job and hated me for getting it instead. And some of 'em did everything they could to shit on me and get rid of me and bloody me up.

It blew my mind to realize I had enemies in cities I'd never even been to, much less worked in! People in broadcasting move around. Jobs come and go. Firings happen. You put the word out that you're available or that you're looking, and you'll undoubtedly find something. And hell, if you're working in L.A. but the job offer comes for Washington DC or Fort Lauderdale or Dallas/Fort Worth or Spokane WA, well, if you want the job, you move there, wherever it is. I know guys who were on their third and fourth divorces because their wives just got tired of being uprooted again and again and again. It happens. I have seen it. And in some cases, people move around and carry their resentments along with them. They don't hate you or resent you any less because they moved to a different station or network in a different market and you're not a factor in their own personal gain or loss anymore. Doesn't matter. Doesn't make them stop hating or resenting you.

I'm SO sorry that the GOP and all the Hillary haters out there didn't get what they wanted. But then again, they want her dragged away in leg irons. They want her head on a pike. They want her frickin' EXECUTED, forcryingoutloud. And they're not gonna get any of that. Boo fucking hoo. Call 'em a fucking WAAAAAAAAAAAmbulance. That's just too damn bad. It tells you far more about them, and none of it good, than it does about Hillary Clinton. She's just the brilliant and accomplished woman whose achievements and indeed whose very existence - ALL of that just threatens them oh so very grievously. They've always hated her, from the moment she declared that she "could have stayed home and baked cookies," because that's the real place in which THEY think she and all other women belong. Well, that's just too damn bad.

I suppose the big dinosaurs, if they'd had any reasoning capability, might have resented all those little bitty creatures evolving around them, that could outrun them and get out of their way and hide in tighter and unreachable places and survive and adapt to changing conditions that they couldn't.

Cosmocat

(14,563 posts)
39. Its tiresome and obvious
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 07:59 PM
Jul 2016

Rs throw a huge shit fest over, literally nothing, and the "media" calls it a scandal.

They go ape shit over Hillary, and she is "divisive."

There was a thing started in the 90s where the "media" would carry the water for republican jackassery by asking, "what do you have to see about those who have said it is possible you are a closet communist spy?"

That all started around that time and went into the 2000s, before 9-11, at which point the republicans went a step farther into ass hatery by bullying everything they wanted through in the name of national security.

Bucky

(53,997 posts)
37. Wait, your argument is that Clinton meeting w/Lynch forced Comey to soften his tone?
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 07:40 PM
Jul 2016

Am I reading you right? That sure makes it sound like Bubba manipulated an official inquiry.

Can you walk through the steps of your thinking please?

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
40. No, I'm saying Comey was made to make a public recommendation.
Tue Jul 5, 2016, 08:09 PM
Jul 2016

Due to the potential conflict of interest.

Comey's tone was not soft. Imagine he did the same exact presser, but at the end said, "due to the circumstances we will be refraining from making a recommendation and will differ to AG Lynch on the matter."

Knowing full well it wasn't prosecutable.

That leaves Lynch in a though spot, with the FBI implying carelessness, pundits questioning it, but Lynch not wanting to go forward because the trial would be pathetic and Clinton would be found innocent.

Comey making this public recommendation is the best outcome possible.

Bucky

(53,997 posts)
41. Thanks.
Wed Jul 6, 2016, 12:57 PM
Jul 2016

What Bubba did still seems improper to me. And I'm not convinced Comey could be so easily played. But I'm not following this story all that closely. I share Bernie's opinion. I'm sick and tired of hearing about this pretty obvious distraction from Republicans' lack of constructive policies for fixing the economy.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
42. I completely agree what Bill did was wrong.
Wed Jul 6, 2016, 10:32 PM
Jul 2016

Even if it was just a chance encounter and he sincerely just wanted to see her and take advantage of the opportunity, it could have waited.

I think he knew it was improper, but said "screw it," and did it anyway. And I think he thought about the consequences and figured there was no down side, so why not.

Bucky

(53,997 posts)
43. powerful people act differently than ordinary citizens.
Wed Jul 6, 2016, 10:42 PM
Jul 2016

The habits of power, the belief that one is above the rules, these are the hallmarks of the corruption that comes with power. This is why the founding fathers believed in a rotation in office.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
45. Power definitely played a role.
Wed Jul 6, 2016, 10:50 PM
Jul 2016

A Lynch certainly felt bad about it. But imagine Comey not making a recommendation. Lynch not prosecuting (because there's no actual case there) would have come off as far more corrupt.

 

Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
44. he thought it all up while playing golf with Trump. figured
Wed Jul 6, 2016, 10:47 PM
Jul 2016

''See, I'll butter orangutan boy up real good, and then, when Hillary gets nailed for those emails she hasn't done yet, I'll use the Deutch pardon to protect her from getting prosecuted, and if that doesn't work, I'll make sure I run into Loretta and force Comey's hand, that squiggly little prick''

multi-dimensional chess with a little fortune telling thrown in

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
47. I think it's all Kabuki.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 12:10 AM
Jul 2016

What sort of Kabuki I would not care to speculate about yet.

But I would agree that getting this done, out and done with, this week was part of it.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
57. There's that.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:44 PM
Jul 2016

But I do think that Comey was going to go with the presser we saw, and instead of making a recommendation, would've simply differed to Lynch. Lynch, effectively recusing herself, made Comey make that recommendation, publicly. It's clear, at least to me, that he intended to really let it go. The wording in the speech he gave was quite stark to the recommendation he gave. He really made it seem that Clinton was getting prosecuted, until the end, where he said he would not be recommending as such.

Simply handing it to Lynch without a recommendation would've been catastrophic.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
59. I agree.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 04:02 PM
Jul 2016

I don't think there were any deals made or coercion applied, that seems unnecessary. I'm not inclined to speculate about who did what to whom anyway, that would be all it was, and I might give somebody ideas.

That doesn't mean they didn't talk, and politics is always show business.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
60. Bill's position is nicely ambiguous, as you point out.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 04:11 PM
Jul 2016

And Bill would know that, but that doesn't mean he had it all planned out either, I like your take on that.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
63. My OP fails for implying foresight.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 05:13 PM
Jul 2016

Because it could be reduced to luck. Bill didn't know shit, just worked out for him.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
65. Well I don't think he saw any downside, as I think you said.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 05:23 PM
Jul 2016

The "luck" was just other people doing what made sense for them, like Lynch, or what circumstances compelled them to do, like Comey, or taking advantage of the situation, like the Democrats will, or grabbing at straws, like the House pubbies.

You can talk about Bill's poor self-control or his great political instincts, take your pick, I tend to like the great political instincts in this case, but who cares really?

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
66. Bill's poor self control...
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 05:32 PM
Jul 2016

I... didn't even consider that. But, heck, the narrative in my OP is pretty dope if I say so myself.

Imagine, Bill doing this crazily... it's hard for me. He I've what he was doing but got supremely lucky.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
49. I never argued for a "plan."
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 08:14 AM
Jul 2016

I only argued for Bill weighing the downsides, and realizing, ultimately, that Lynch recusing herself / deferring to Comey, would be beneficial.

I think in all reality Bill saw that Lynch was at (or soon to be at) the same airport he was at, and he decided to say hello. As long time acquaintances if not friends would do. I think he saw the conflict of interest and decided, ultimately, it would not hurt him or Hillary. It would maybe tarnish Lynch, but that's it. Lynch accepts a former President to talk to him. A guy who appointed her, who put her where she currently is, and so on.

Bill likely realized that if it comes out, Comey's hand is forced. No downside. No plan. Just not giving a fuck. Just, maybe, hoping it happens that way.

It cannot in any way, in Bill Clinton's mind, be harmful, even though it was an obvious conflict of interest.

I cannot stress how bad Comey's presser would've been if he had not been forced, by Lynch, to make a recommendation. She said, clearly, that she would follow the recommendation of the FBI. But the FBI, doesn't, by rule, have to actually make that recommendation.

Please sit back and watch Comey's presser, and imagine, he doesn't recommend anything, and instead, differs to the AG. Clusterfuck. No other word for it. Lynch couldn't be trusted if the FBI didn't make a recommendation, she was appointed by Bill Clinton and Obama. She was literally a Democratic appointment her whole life. She has Democrat values. So she doesn't prosecute after Comey's insane presser? My god.

Sancho

(9,067 posts)
50. The OP may be correct; the meeting might have forced Comey to get off the pot.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 09:03 AM
Jul 2016

I believe that Comey (and the FBI) are primarily RW operatives. One reason for the Clintons to have their own server was likely to prevent internal leaks from government employees.

At any rate, it would not surprise me if the Clintons had been hounding Comey and Lynch to get moving. The public meeting on the tarmac clearly hastened things. Comey was pissed, and so he took time to give his "opinion" and spin things against Hillary - but he knew months ago the investigation was going nowhere. The longer he held up a report, the worse for Hillary's campaign.

Bill may have been smart or he may have been been lucky or he may have been opportunist; but I think the meeting actually did force Comey's hand, to Hillary's benefit.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
54. With the replies I am going to go with lucky.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:33 PM
Jul 2016

I do think it was a masterstroke for the simple reason that he did what he thought couldn't hurt. What Bill could not have foreseen is that the meeting would become public and that Lynch would effectively recuse herself.

Lynch effectively recusing herself, of course, is the best possible outcome, because Comey's recommendation was paramount to the final conclusion of the investigation. If she had, as I've repeatedly said throughout this thread, been taken at task for the prosecution, and not done it after Comey's extremely public admonishment, it would've been huge, bad, terrible.

Thank you for the first and only reply in the thread that actually replies to my question directly. This isn't about whether Bill was right or wrong, I'm merely asking, would Comey have gone public with a recommendation were it not for the meeting with Bill Clinton which made Lynch effectively recuse herself?

I don't think it would have. I think he would have done that same exact presser without recommending anything. I think it would've been brutal. "I differ to the Attorney General as to whether Hillary Clinton should be prosecuted."

Imagine how bad that would have been. Lynch was a Bill Clinton appointee. She was an Obama appointee. She is a Democrat. Imagine. Just close your eyes and watch that Comey presser in your mind, and think about the end result. A total and utter clusterfuck.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
55. I fucking love politics.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:35 PM
Jul 2016

It's ugly, and I admit that Bill Clinton meeting Lynch was wrong, but I think in the end it actually was beneficial to him and Hillary. It is what it is.

As the title of my thread suggest, this is some House of Cards level stuff.

Mike Nelson

(9,951 posts)
52. One thing...
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 09:24 AM
Jul 2016

...you're onto is that Comey may have, indeed, thrown it to Lynch. Most people are led, by the media, to think the FBI would indict and arrest Hillary. That was never true. More likely, Lynch ponders and makes no criminal recommendation. Then, the Republicans demand a Special Prosecutor and launch new investigations. Of course, the Republicans are going to try to do that, anyway. But, if this theory holds, they forced Comey to go on the record stating there was no crime.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
56. And, I allege, it was not by intent.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:40 PM
Jul 2016

It was just Bill Clinton thinking there was no downside with meeting with Lynch, only an upside. If it gets out, then Lynch has to effectively recuse herself, and Comey has to make a public recommendation (against DOJ rules, even) and it clears Hillary once and for all.

I ask anyone reading this thread to watch Comey's presser and in their imagination ignore when he says the recommendation. It's bad. Very bad. To hand it to Lynch after that.

Comey looks directly in the camera when he makes his recommendation. He's serious. He's stone cold. He knows there's nothing there. Literally 8 email chains out of 30k emails. He knows a jury is going to laugh at him. He knows it is not in any way negligent. But he tries throughout his borderline illegal presser to trash Hillary.

DLCWIdem

(1,580 posts)
58. I don't think your premise follows logically.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:52 PM
Jul 2016

First of all, Lynch had already recused herself and said she would rely on the FBI recommendation.

DLCWIdem

(1,580 posts)
61. sorry had to leave before finishing
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 04:16 PM
Jul 2016

Secondly, the Congress didn't leave it alone at Comey's statement. They still didn't accept no indictment and tried to discredit Comey.

DLCWIdem

(1,580 posts)
64. if I remember correctly she said when she was interviewed that she would abide by the
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 05:19 PM
Jul 2016

Recommendation of the FBI. Maybe a month ago, I never copied down a link because I simply didn't expect to need it just for an opinion piece. But I know that others who have posted mentioned it also.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
70. If that's the case then maybe I'm off base.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 06:49 PM
Jul 2016

However, Lynch effectively recusing herself and Comey announcing his decision a few days after Bill's meeting indicates to me some bit of relation. It's no coincidence.

pnwmom

(108,976 posts)
68. Wouldn't it have been awfully unusual to go public with all the evidence?
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 06:06 PM
Jul 2016

In any case, it's good that Comey ended up taking the heat for this, instead of Lynch. Still, I think he should have just announced his decision, not given her the tongue lashing. That was inappropriate.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
69. I think he prepared the "tongue lashing."
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 06:44 PM
Jul 2016

I think the presser we saw was exactly what he intended. I think if Lynch did not publicly differ to Comey, however, he would've handed it off to her. WITHOUT the recommendation. Imagine how that would've gone. Total disaster.

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