If our VP is Kaine, blame our failure to elect Democratic governors.

[geek tragedy]

VP nominees are either governors, or Senators whose replacements get named by governors.

Too bad the following states all have Republican governors:

Florida
Michigan
Ohio
Massachusetts
New Jersey
Illinois
Nevada
New Mexico
Iowa
Wisconsin

So, no Corey Booker, or Elizabeth Warren or Dick Durbin or Tom Udall or Martin Heinrich or Bill Nelson or Debbie Stabenow or Gary Peters or Sherrod Brown or Tammy Baldwin

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. If progressives dislike Kaine they would loathe Bill Nelson

It is interesting that Bill Nelson is the only Democrat in Florida who has been elected to a statewide office this century.

[geek tragedy]

3. Other than Barack Obama (and Al Gore) nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Fixed it. Quite a coup.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. 'This Century' is a period of time covering 16 years, not 100 years.

Democrats elected to the Senate in 1998, 18 years ago. 2001-2005 it was two Democrats in the Senate from Florida....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. I know that

This Century' is a period of time covering 16 years, not 100 years.

I know that.



Florida has elections for governor, for United States senators, and Attorney General. Bill Nelson is the only Democrat to win one of these elections this century.

[still_one]

30. Would John Kerry be a good VP choice?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Indubitably.

[still_one]

40. I really like that word

[geek tragedy]

33. he's served admirably as Secretary of State, but I think his time on the electoral stage has passed

[MSMITH33156]

7. A lot of that has to do with the quality of candidates they've run

Been crap on top of crap on top of crap. For a state that is purplish (it leans a bit right, especially in mid-terms, which is when Governors are elected in that state, which is also why the Rs dominate the Governor's mansion), the candidate bench is incredibly weak, and time and again, that has shown up.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I am surprised my former mayor hasn't went further.

Maybe being mayor of Orlando is enough for him. Buddy Dyer is a great guy!!!

[Andy823]

16. The problem I see

Is not who she picks, it's those who "claim" to be progressives, but are not. They just can't let the primaries go, and they will disagree with anything and everything Hillary does. Ignore them, their goal is simply to cause problems here on DU. They won't support her no matter what.

[stopbush]

29. Bingo! I expect these people to complain that Hillary didn't beat Trump

by enough in Nov if the margin is under 15%.

[Andy823]

46. Exactly.

Nothing is ever going to be good enough for them. They are the same group here on DU who could only see the "negative" in everything president Obama did. They will never change.

[aintitfunny]

34. Was Nelson ever on the VP list?

I was not aware.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. The seminal poster mentioned him.

[rjsquirrel]

2. It just don't blame anyone

Kaine is a solid pick. For a job that doesn't matter.

Seriously, the last VP to become a (one term) president was 30 years ago. Choosing Warren won't smart the banks. Choosing Kaine won't mean Jamie Dimon gets to live in the Lincoln Bedroom.

[geek tragedy]

5. I wouldn't mind the policy imperfections if he would actually help her get elected nt

[Bluenorthwest]

8. He signed the Marshall-Newman amendment in VA which defined marriage as between

one man and one woman. He had promised as candidate to veto it, but in the end he followed his faith based desire to oppress LGBT. 'Imperfections' like voting against the rights of a minority group. Tiny flaws, hardly worth mention.

[geek tragedy]

9. An act of political cowardice at best, I agree.

His anti-choice stuff from the not-so-distant past is also very troubling, as is his current deregulation push.

I'm not happy with the choice.

[Bluenorthwest]

6. And yet cabinet and House members have been openly considered this cycle.

Months of hearing that it would be one of the Castro Bros or Gen Mike Flynn makes the 'only Govs and Senators' line seem very convenient for the time.

Governor of my State is a Democrat. Nothing I can do about those Red States.

[geek tragedy]

10. Joaquin Castro was a non-starter when it became apparent that Trump was the Republican nominee.

Would have been political malpractice to name someone less experienced than Sarah Palin while trying to disqualify Trump as not fit for office.

Flynn is a Trump supporter. Maybe you're thinking of another general or admiral--that guy with the Greek-sounding name?

I doubt he was ever on the short list.

[Bluenorthwest]

14. Yes it was the other guy Admiral James Stavridis, but again, not a Senator or Governor

Right now I am very bothered that so many here are thrilled with an anti-gay conservative like Kaine. Proven history of the double cross, proven history of placing his own personal views above his political commitments. Why should this Party elevate anyone who is 'kind of' Pro Choice and 'recently grudgingly no longer anti gay'? We have much better than Tim.

[geek tragedy]

17. I mistyped--Julian Castro was the one being considered and who was too light on experience.

I think most people here are underwhelmed to disappointed. Others are trying to put the best spin on it, as they're in full-on general election mode. People embraced John Edwards here in 2004 as some kind of populist hero showing much the same dynamic.

Every VP nominee we've had was less liberal than the Presidential nominee, going back quite a ways.

Biden was less liberal than Obama, Edwards was less liberal than Kerry, Lieberman was a lot less liberal than Gore, Gore was really rightwing when he was named as Clinton's VP, Lloyd Bentsen was more conservative than Dukakis.

Maybe Geraldine Ferraro was about as liberal as Mondale.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. I think 'less liberal' is conveniently vague , considering the specifics which are

about civil rights and a candidate who opposed the rights of an oppressed minority group and about his claim that he would veto anti gay law that he actually signed with glee. He said one thing about civil rights, then he did another.
He's better than Pence. And that's not much to write home about.

[BobbyDrake]

12. Trace it back to 2010...

FL- Rick Scott, elected in 2010
MI- Rick Snyder, elected in 2010
OH- John Kasich, elected in 2010
MA- Charlie Baker, elected in 2014
NJ- Chris Christie, elected in 2009
IL- Bruce Rauner, elected in 2014
NV- Brian Sandoval, elected in 2010
NM- Susan Martinez, elected in 2010
IA- Terry Branstad, elected in 2010
WI- Scott Walker, elected in 2010.

That 2010 mid-term election that the progressives skipped because Obama was late on the unicorn delivery has really come back to bite us in the ass, hasn't it?

Mid-term elections matter, folks. Start playing the long game, maybe. The GOP is.

[geek tragedy]

13. everyone stayed home in 2010, it was bad nt

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Tim Kaine was Chair of the Party in 2010. Our lack of Governors is in part Tim's doing.

nt

[geek tragedy]

19. Possibly, though I think the role of the DNC chair is really overrated.

Howard Dean gets credit for what was essentially a two-cycle backlash to George W Bush's failures.

[Bluenorthwest]

21. The OP is about blaming Democrats for our lack of Governors, the Chair of the Party clearly

has at least as much blame to take as the average voter. Logic would say at least a bit more because he was in fact paid to deliver and did not deliver. He got six figures to deliver, voters got to donate money.

[geek tragedy]

26. he gets some of the blame, as does Obama, as do a lot of people--more than enough

blame to go around for that depressing fiasco

[BobbyDrake]

25. The list of people some folks need to be "excited by" in order to vote grows ridiculously.

Voting is pretty simple; I'm at a complete loss to explain why so many on the far left fuck it up so badly.

[geek tragedy]

27. my vote for Clinton is not in jeopardy

that said, Kaine is a dud

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

23. I disagree. I think Election 2010 was an aberration. And it was a midterm election when a lot of

Democrats were up for reelection.

When people don't show up to vote, this is the result we'll get.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. What do you base that on? Factually, Oregon had record breaking turnout in 2010 and

we elected Democrats. California had a great 2010, also elected many Democrats and went ultra blue in the Statehouse. Washington as well. The entire West Coast had good to great turnout and fantastic election results. Other States did not. Why was that? What did we do that the other States did not do? What did we do that Tim Kaine did not do?
Well, among the issues that lead that cycle were cannabis legalization and LGBT equality, Tim was at that time opposed to both things. He was Chairman. We did not listen to him. We won.

2010 was the best midterm turnout in Oregon since at least the 1980's, maybe of all time. Depends on how you look at older stats.

2010 election losses were a regional and not a national event. The more liberal States did just fine, thanks. The more conservative States might think about that for a moment.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

39. Oregon has an ideal approach when it comes to voting. That's why the state always has a high turnout

Being able to vote by mail. Same-day registration. The voters tend to be more involved in progressive politics.

We'll have to agree to disagree, but Election 2010 proved to be the death kneel to the Democratic Party. We got angry because we didn't get everything we wanted in two years, so many of us sat at home, thus allowing the Teabag Republicans to take over all levels of government. And now that we're left with this mess, we can't be "purists" because we don't run anything. I agree that Election 2010 outcome may have been regional, but it also reflected the national sentiment at the time---AND it also is the nature of politics. Midterm elections tend to hurt the party in power. We lost more congressional seats, governorships and state legislatures than any time in our history as a political party. This is the truth.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think Kaine makes sense, and I don't think he's anti-gay any longer. I believe that people can evolve on issues as we've seen with President Obama.

Would I have preferred a more liberal pick? Sure, but I also understand the political strategy and I still this he is a good pick.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. We do not do same day registration. And CA and Washington did well in 2010 as well.

Let me ask you this. If Kaine is 'not anti gay any longer' and that's acceptable, what are the metrics for Trump to be declared 'not anti Mexican any longer' or 'no longer anti Muslim'? Does he also get to say 'Gee, sorry I changed my mind' and have all that actual bigoted verbiage and action forgotten? Or is it 'different' for those who attack LGBT?

What you are saying is that there are acceptable levels of past bigotry and some form of metrics that allow us to judge a formerly active and virulent opponent of equality to be a great and trusted supporter of equality. I'd like to know what your metrics are.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

43. Fair enough on OR, WA and CA -- those being reliably blue states.

At any rate, what differentiates Kaine from Trump is that Kaine has shown signs that he has EVOLVED on this issue.

Here:

U.S. Senator Tim Kaine, D-Virginia, issued the following statement: “By recognizing the constitutional right of all people to marry the person they love, the Supreme Court has guaranteed that, across the country, same-sex couples will have their relationships treated with the full legal dignity and respect that they deserve. With our country’s fundamental ideal that ‘all men are created equal’ in mind, I welcome the end of discriminatory bans that have, until today, denied same-sex couples the privileges, responsibilities, and joys of marriage. This is an important step on our continuing quest to create a more perfect union.”

http://www.dailyprogress.com/starexponent/news/kaine-supreme-court-decision-on-gay-marriage-supports-more-perfect/article_023872ec-1c0e-11e5-8b46-5f58ee3e1aa6.html

------------

Kaine and two more senators back marriage equality:

http://www.washingtonblade.com/2013/03/26/kaine-two-more-u-s-senators-back-same-sex-marriage/

------------

And here...

http://www.kaine.senate.gov/press-releases/warner-kaine-introduce-bill-for-equal-dignity-in-the-tax-code

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, U.S. Senators Mark Warner and Tim Kaine introduced new legislation providing equal dignity for all legal marriages in the tax code. The Equal Dignity for Married Taxpayers Act seeks to remove gender-specific references to marriage in the tax code consistent with recent developments that, extend equal treatment under the law to LGBT Americans.

“The debate is over and marriage equality is the law of the land. Our tax code must reflect that,” said Warner.

“This bill clarifies what the Supreme Court affirmed in June—same-sex couples deserve full and equal dignity in the eyes of the law,” said Kaine. “By eliminating outdated language, we will ensure our tax code recognizes the right of all couples to marry and respects all types of families.”

This bill follows the U.S. Supreme Court ruling on June 26, 2015 that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marriage under the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantee of equal protection, striking down state-level bans on such marriages. The bill ensures that the nation’s tax law properly reflects the landmark civil rights decision, offering equal treatment to all married taxpayers.

[Bluenorthwest]

45. Blue States are Blue due to efforts by Democrats in those States, not by nature or luck.

I just have no reason to support the rewarding of those who attacked my family within this Party for yeas and years as Kaine did. Equality advocates won, and that should matter. The old, atavistic and dogmatic types do not provide adequate contrast to the old, atavistic and dogmatic Republicans.

If Kaine had been an opponent of any other minority's rights, no one here would support him. We all know that.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. You wrote...

If Kaine had been an opponent of any other minority's rights, no one here would support him. We all know that.

Not true.

People have tolerated and made excuses for the mistreatment of black people, Muslims, Hispanics and immigrants.

Especially when it comes to blacks, I see all kinds of excuses made about why black men and women should be killed. And that's true even for people who call themselves LIBERAL and are right here on Democratic Understand.

And there are blacks, Hispanics and other minorities who are members of the LGBT community. Racism, sexism exists WITHIN the LGBT community but you say nothing about that. So, please cut the crap.

You are on IGNORE!

[BobbyDrake]

18. Not just bad, but short-sighted and self-defeating.

Too many Green Lantern fans on the far left, waiting for a single superhero to magically save them.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

22. Kaine makes sense, though, whether we like it or not...

I had forgotten all the work that Kaine did in Hondoras, working on behalf of the poor.

I had forgotten that he speaks Spanish fluently.

I had forgotten that he is a Civil Rights attorney.

He was a mayor, a governor, and now a senator. And he was the head of the Democratic Governors Association.

He really isn't that controversial.

And as for the gay marriage issue, I'm willing to bet that he regrets his past stance. I can't see him not being for marriage equality NOW which is a part of the Democratic Party platform.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. And he belongs to a inner city black Catholic church.

It’s not unusual, on an election-year Sunday, to find a white candidate in a black church. But Tim Kaine, swaying this month to the gospel groove at St. Elizabeth Catholic Church in a poor Richmond neighborhood, wasn’t on the campaign trail. He was taking a break from it at his home parish.

“How you doing, brother?” said Peter Thompson, 53, a lean black man in a green fedora, hugging the round-faced Kaine on the church steps.

The part-time Pizza Hut cook and the former governor have known each other since Kaine joined the church almost three decades ago. “We helped start the Men’s Group together,” Thompson said.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tim-kaines-moral-convictions-and-political-ambitions/2012/10/18/38d473ba-0996-11e2-858a-5311df86ab04_story.html

[Bluenorthwest]

38. As Governor Kaine signed into law the Marshall-Newman Amendment, which defined

marriage as being reserved for straight couples only. He had promised to veto it while running then he singed it anyway. So what he says he'll do and what he actually does are not the same things.

Of course he also opposed civil unions.

There is just no reason for the Party to elevate these 'I used to oppose your civil rights now I want your votes so I claim to support them' politicians. No reason at all, other than to endorse their horrible pasts. It's a wink and a nod.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

41. Yes, I know! And I've already stated my peace on this. LGBT rights is a central plank in the

Democratic Party platform. I do not believe that Kaine is still anti-gay marriage. I just don't.

------------

U.S. Senator Tim Kaine, D-Virginia, issued the following statement: “By recognizing the constitutional right of all people to marry the person they love, the Supreme Court has guaranteed that, across the country, same-sex couples will have their relationships treated with the full legal dignity and respect that they deserve. With our country’s fundamental ideal that ‘all men are created equal’ in mind, I welcome the end of discriminatory bans that have, until today, denied same-sex couples the privileges, responsibilities, and joys of marriage. This is an important step on our continuing quest to create a more perfect union.”

http://www.dailyprogress.com/starexponent/news/kaine-supreme-court-decision-on-gay-marriage-supports-more-perfect/article_023872ec-1c0e-11e5-8b46-5f58ee3e1aa6.html

------------

Kaine and two more senators back marriage equality:

http://www.washingtonblade.com/2013/03/26/kaine-two-more-u-s-senators-back-same-sex-marriage/

------------

And here...

http://www.kaine.senate.gov/press-releases/warner-kaine-introduce-bill-for-equal-dignity-in-the-tax-code

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, U.S. Senators Mark Warner and Tim Kaine introduced new legislation providing equal dignity for all legal marriages in the tax code. The Equal Dignity for Married Taxpayers Act seeks to remove gender-specific references to marriage in the tax code consistent with recent developments that, extend equal treatment under the law to LGBT Americans.

“The debate is over and marriage equality is the law of the land. Our tax code must reflect that,” said Warner.

“This bill clarifies what the Supreme Court affirmed in June—same-sex couples deserve full and equal dignity in the eyes of the law,” said Kaine. “By eliminating outdated language, we will ensure our tax code recognizes the right of all couples to marry and respects all types of families.”

This bill follows the U.S. Supreme Court ruling on June 26, 2015 that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marriage under the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantee of equal protection, striking down state-level bans on such marriages. The bill ensures that the nation’s tax law properly reflects the landmark civil rights decision, offering equal treatment to all married taxpayers.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. Do you support people who are recently reformed racists as well?

I mean you do understand that 'not anti gay anymore' is an unproven claim being made for a man who has a history of anti gay words and actions. Why should any voter be asked to trust 'not a bigot anymore' politicians? Of course it's only LGBT that are asked to overlook such things.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

47. Racism and sexism exists in the LGBT community as well...

And yet, as a black woman who has a gay black father, I STILL wholeheartedly support LGBT rights.

You bring up race as a straw man and it is condescending and wrong. Please stop.

Do I think racists can be reformed? I look at their voting behavior and policies for evidence. I don't go off of emotions.

Let me give a few examples:

Robert Byrd was a racist. He was the Grand Wizard of the KKK. We all know this. But when he changed and evolved on the issue of race, he received a near 100% NAACP and ACLU rating.

I love Joe Biden, but even he has made some racist remarks in the past, regardless of how innocuous those statements were. However, his VOTING BEHAVIOR reflected how he really viewed race and racial discrimination. Again, his voting behavior did not signify that he's a racist.

Here's how I see things:

Everyone has a bit of racism within and are bigots in varying degrees. You're free to believe what you want. But when it comes to the people who represent us in government, how they feel vs. how they vote and what they do in government is totally different.

I don't give a fuck how racist, sexist or homophobic a legislator or a president is in his/her PERSONAL life. Just as long as he/she votes against racist, sexist, homophobic policies or promotes policies that address these "isms" I cannot control how people feel in their personal lives. That's the difference between Trump and Kaine and others.

Joe Biden, John Kerry are personally not pro-choice. However, they support reproductive choice for women.

You feel that people cannot evolve and learn from mistakes, even though you've seen this happen with President Obama who has done more for LGBT rights than anyone in history. But, you cannot get past the fact that he had to learn to overcome his own bigotry.

You seem to approach these issues as if you are 100% perfect and have no prejudices, so you cannot be open-minded when it comes to those who have to work a bit harder to overcome their own prejudices or bigotry.

So even though I've given you examples of how Kaine has evolved on the issue of marriage equality and LGBT rights, you still cannot accept it and cannot get past the fact that Kaine had to grow and overcome his own biases and prejudices.

You and I have had this argument in the past when it came to President Obama.

If you cannot get past these things, then there's nothing else to discuss and no reason to follow me around in these threads.

Thus I have no choice but to put you on IGNORE.

[bornskeptic]

32. Trivia Question: Who was the last governor chosen as a Democratic VP nominee?

Answer: Charles W Bryan in 1924.
Democrats almost always choose senators as running mates.
Of the 18 non-incumbent Democratic VP candidates since 1924, there have been:
2 members of the House- Garner in 1932 and Ferarro in 1984,
1 cabinet member- Wallace in 1940,
1 former ambassador - Shriver in 1972, and
14 senators.

1928 Joseph Robinson
1944 Harry Truman
a948 Alben Barkley
1952 John Sparkman
1956 Estes Kefauver
1960 Lyndon Johnson
1964 Hubert Humphrey
1968 Ed Muskie
1976 Walter Mondale
1988 Lloyd Bentsen
1992 Al Gore
2000 Joe Lieberman
2004 John Edwards
2008 Joe Biden

Of course, McGovern also originally chose a senator, Thomas Eagleton in 1972.