2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI am getting so nervous about Tim Kaine. I had a bad feeling beforehand
and it feels like it is coming to fruition.
The GOP is already calling him "corrupt Kaine." It is a blatant lie, of course, but they may be able to sell it to the voters. The gifts he accepted can easily be twisted around. And the Republican Party is all about twisting reality with great success.
I think in her heart she wanted to pick Tom Vilsack. But Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and Terry McAuliffe were all pushing her really hard to pick Kaine. I think she gave Bill and Barack too much credit for their judgement.
I know that a lot of posters don't like "concern trolls." But part of why we come here is sometimes to vent. And to worry. It can help to give other people a chance to talk us down, or at least to share our concerns and then point out all the things we have going for us.
msongs
(67,395 posts)tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)for whomever she picked. They would have also found some sort of blemish in their record to exploit as well.
Can you imagine what would have happened if she picked Warren? It would have been out of control and their stuff would have been 100 times worse.
If this is the best they can do, we're good.
The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)He is ok.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)with an excellent reputation, but truth has nothing to do with the right wing character assassination industry. Any Democratic nominee would not be smeared by them, and real issues just make the job they do easier is all.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)How novel.
pkdu
(3,977 posts)Grassy Knoll
(10,118 posts)So Fuck those Assholes.
stopbush
(24,396 posts)The announcement isn't even 5 hours old and THIS is what you post?
You have no confidence in either traditional Ds or in Hillary's judgement. When in the FUCK have Ds ever been successful allowing concerns about what the fucking Rs say about us influence what we do? Spineless, milquetoast crap that sounds like R-fed bs.
Kaine is a great pick. I'm willing to bet you actually know very little about his life and career.
NBachers
(17,103 posts)I'm enthusiastic about Tim Kaine, and I support the ticket 100%. I think Hillary made a great choice. And this from a former No Kaine guy. Cruise around the site, and see some of the things people are saying about him.
Start here:
MFM008
(19,805 posts)I was not happy at first but hearing some of his extended views, I feel better.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)HRC doesn't strike me as someone who would let others make a decision for her. I hope you don't spend the whole election cycle fretting over what the GOP is saying about our candidates. When they tell lies, it is up to us to share facts with voters.
OhioBlue
(5,126 posts)I have been learning a lot about Kaine myself today by reading some Duers first hand experiences and articles. I didn't have a good impression before based on some things I read (mostly on FB and DU. The more I am reading about him, I am realizing I was too quick to judge and I'm thinking he was a good choice. Check out this Mother Jone's article:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/07/tim-kaine-vice-president-hillary-clinton-virginia-senate
HR_Pufnstuf
(837 posts)got it. jury said so.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)These mother**kers never look in the mirror. Eff them.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Trying to make a tempest in a teapot without even being able to do that correctly.
patricia92243
(12,595 posts)different things. Troll is the keyword. You are not trolling.
Keep posting your real concerns - that is one of the reasons DU is here
Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)around her. This is HER campaign.
Why is it that men so often imagine women this way? That we're all walking around going, "I really wanted the honeydew but Barack says the kiwis are better, so I guess I have to get them instead."
I am sure they have done a great deal of work, making certain they have any potential loose ends tied up. You can be quite sure the whole team talked to exhaustion all the pros and cons of each choice. I trust that she has made the right decision for her campaign.
Relax. It's going to be fine.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)You have misjudged me.
I just know that Bill and Barack are successful presidential candidates whose instincts are trusted by many in their orbit. And it was repeatedly reported that they were both pushing for Kaine.
I got the impression--perhaps wrong--that she had a soft spot for Vilsack that she didn't have for anyone else.
If she wins then I suspect Secretary Vilsack will be strongly considered for White House Chief of Staff.
For the record, I think John Kerry would also have been much better of picking Vilsack than Edwards. He was a finalist, along with Edwards and Richard Gephardt.
trueblue2007
(17,205 posts)about Senator Kaine. I have heard and read he is a very ethical person so stop calling him corrupt.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)at twisting the facts. They can take an ethical man like Tim Kaine and misrepresent him to the American people.
I hope they don't succeed with their lies. I desperately want to win this election.
RonniePudding
(889 posts)Let's all strap ourselves in and fight the good fight and win or lose with some honor and dignity rather than hiding in some fraidy hole worried about what the GOP fascists are going to say.
PatSeg
(47,399 posts)They will do that with anyone Hillary picks. Trump loves his childish name calling.
Old and In the Way
(37,540 posts)Keep questioning our choices, just don't tell us whar you relly think,
Cicada
(4,533 posts)It was perfectly legal to accept transportation to political conferences. Also a personal friend who sells clothes gave him clothes. And a trip to an island once for vacation. All perfectly legal and reported.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... exactly these same sentiments on a self-described "progressive site". I guess there's a lot of this bullshit going around already.
But I must say I'm impressed by your "insider info" when it comes to who Hill really wanted to choose, and who was involved in "pushing hard for Kaine".
You're apparently someone who's "in the know", so we'll be waiting for your next post with great anticipation.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)know, that happens.
I sure wish they would have picked someone that Donald wouldn't have called a name. Like Ivanka. Donald would never have called Ivanka a name. Why did Hillary let Bill and Barack talk her out of picking Ivanka?
(sarcasm in case I need it)
Skinner
(63,645 posts)I can't believe they would do that!
glennward
(989 posts)Stop with the FEAR of Kaine. Say something to change your own mind about him and get to work for the ticket!!
The meme that gets repeated is the meme that gets remembered and gets results! Just think how the GOP does it. They throw out a lie, repeat it a million times on TV, get the pundits to repeat it and it becomes fact. Why the hell can't we do the same by repeating some positive meme's?
DrDan
(20,411 posts)this is the GOP, for heavens sake . . . . it's what they do
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)There is no candidate we could put forward that they wouldn't twist into an unrecognizable caricature.
But the fact is that he followed Virginia's reporting laws to the letter and most of the gifts were related to work travel. For example, he reported receiving money from Senator Obama's campaign for his travel to campaign events as a "personal gift" because Virginia law had murky reporting rules.
I wish Virginia had different laws, too, but his situation is nothing like the Republican Governor's -- who was convicted of corruption for taking money, gifts, and loans from a company. But that conviction was then overturned by the Supreme Court in an 8 to 0 ruling.
The Republicans are mainly using this to try to turn Democrats against Kaine. We shouldn't fall for it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kaines-acceptance-of-gifts-in-state-office-could-offer-republicans-an-opening/2016/07/22/8508b2cc-4f7f-11e6-a7d8-13d06b37f256_story.html
But Republicans have signaled in recent days that they will use Kaines acceptance of that and other freebies as a line of attack against the newly selected vice presidential candidate, looking to stoke concern among Democrats that Kaine is not the progressive candidate they had hoped for.
He followed the rules, but its a question of whether the Democrat Party can stomach that coziness with donors, said former attorney general Jerry Kilgore, the Republican who Kaine defeated in 2005. Their base, at this point, is anti-corporate America, anti-what these gifts stand for: access and influence.
Such gifts drew little attention in Virginia until Kaines successor, Gov. Robert F. McDonnell, was convicted of federal corruption charges in 2014, accused of accepting gifts and sweetheart loans from a dietary supplement executive in exchange for promoting the businessmans company.
There are stark differences between Kaines gifts and McDonnells. For one, Kaines gifts were properly disclosed; McDonnell failed to disclose some of what he received.
For another, Kaine has never faced accusations of promising state action in exchange for any of his gifts.
During his eight years as lieutenant governor and governor, Senator Kaine went beyond the requirements of Virginia law, promptly disclosing any and all gifts received, including those beneath the reporting threshold, said Kaine spokeswoman Amy Dudley. All disclosure information the vast majority of which was for work-related travel expenses rather than gifts has been publicly available for years and never once raised any concerns of impropriety.
SNIP
The majority of those gifts came in the form of air travel, including from the 2008 campaign of President Obama, which paid to fly Kaine across the country as a campaign surrogate. Under murky Virginia law, the proper way to disclose such political travel has been unclear; other politicians have disclosed it as a campaign contribution to their political action committee, rather than a personal gift, as did Kaine.
book_worm
(15,951 posts)rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Seriously all this hand wringing nervous Nellie stuff is sad.
It's a fight. No one is handing us a victory. If it were Bernie they'd attack him too.
FFS it's politics not water polo.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)LibraLiz1973
(8,197 posts)And those quacks would complain and make up a snotty name.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I can just hear Trump criticizing Christ.
'Cheek-turning Jesus'!!
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Oh please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
StevieM
(10,500 posts)My point is that there was intense pressure to pick him. And I think that the Obamas should have stayed out of it.
I don't always trust the political judgement of Barack Obama or Bill Clinton. And I think Hillary gave them too much credit in this case.
This is not about her gender. If Bill was running for president, and ex-president Hillary was pushing for Kaine, then I would be sitting here blaming Hillary Clinton and the Obamas for influencing Bill to make a bad decision.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)Whatever shall we do?
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)He's clean, and so is Anne Holton. They are both legit do gooders.
If Hillary could have picked Fred Rogers, Trump would have called him Corrupt Fred.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)then I think we're ok. I've skimmed FReeperville since last night, and they cannot really muster any credible argument against him thus far; it's just the gift thing and "he boycotted Netanyahu's speech in 2015".
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Her Sister
(6,444 posts)BLUSHING!!! Just looooooooooooooooove Trump! My heart & my soul know a good thing when I see it!
My bones are reverberating with my sacred tender love for Trump! Trump makes my eyelashes flutter!
I wake up singing hymns (atheist that I am!) for this "GOOD MAN"
This is embarrassing but Trump has overcome me. I cannot help myself!!!
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)To pay his mortgage. True story. We need people to push back on those attacks.