Passing data through Russian computers and allowing such to show = cover your tracks

[L. Coyote]

Cover your tracks, create a diversion, evade US jurisdiction, maybe even hired help, lots of possibilities.

Instantaneous narrative blaming "Russia" in place everywhere immediately has all the characteristics of a created diversion.

I don't trust the FBI or Comey, he tried to frame Hillary by ignoring the fact there were ZERO classified emails, then developed instant amnesia when probed.

No, there is one suspect and we all should know who that is, the Republicans. Specifically, the dirty trickster Republicans who are long-standing associates of Trump and who now run and advise his campaign.

I've been posting this in threads about the hack. Time to give it more light with an OP.

[center]

Some History of Trump Operatives

Deja DU excerpts, many more at link: Bush vs. Gore, the 'Arkansas Project,' the USA firings, and the Swiftboat Admiral

L. Coyote Jun-09-07
44. Donald Trump, Roger Stone, Jack Abramoff, Gaming Gaming and Scalping the Tribes.

How is it that two consumate Republican insiders, both purported specialists in illegal
funding of campaigns, one a political dirty trickster who stays behind the scenes and
the other a felonious convict linked to the White House political office, each manage
to garner tens of millions of dollars from Indian tribes in the gaming rackets? By
working both sides at once, of course. And, how is it that one gets convicted and goes
to jail while the other keeps getting paid? Who is scalping whom for how much, who has
lost their scalp, who still has theirs, and will Donald Trump's hair survive the scandals?

With all the attention to Abramoff defrauding the Tribes, why isn't there more attention on
who else is involved in all of gaming's political machinations and influence peddling?

Who has lucrative contracts to receive a percentage of the gross from Indian casinos, and
how did they obtain it? Where is all that money going? How much ends up in the coffers of
politicos like Sen. John McCain, and why? Who else is scalping the Tribes?

And how much of the scalping goes to legal and illegal campaign contributions?

Questions to be answered.

36. Who is Roger Stone, Jr.? Buckley, Nixon, Reagan, Bush operative.

"Roger J. Stone, Jr. is a long-time Republican dirty-tricks operative who led the mob that shut down the Miami-Dade County recount and helped make George W. Bush president in 2000. He was also a campaign strategist during the presidential campaigns of Presidents Nixon, Reagan and George Herbert Walker Bush. .............

........ Roger Stone and the Jack Abramoff mould. Making $$millions$$ gaming gaming.

A Dirty Trickster's Bush Bonanza
The man who stopped Miami recount makes gaming millions
by Wayne Barrett
April 19th, 2004 9:30 AM
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/...........

Roger Stone, the dirty-tricks hobgoblin of Republican politics, has exploited his Bush connections to become an influence-peddling force in the $13 billion Indian gaming industry. Stone's booming business in such a federally regulated enterprise makes his recent pro bono orchestration of Al Sharpton's double-edged presidential campaign an even stranger covert caper.

The longtime GOP consultant's reward for fomenting the "Brooks Brothers mob" that shut down the Miami-Dade recount in 2000 was an invitation within days of Bush's election to serve on the Department of Interior transition working group—helping, in his own words, to staff its Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA). Stone has since used this unannounced perch to market himself to tribes and developers from Louisiana to California, earning fat fees and contingent percentages of future casino revenue. Just two of the five deals examined by the Voice are projected to pay him at least $8 million, and perhaps as much as $13 million.

Time, The Washington Post and The New York Times have published exposés about Bush's BIA, with a February story highlighting $45 million in payments to two GOP lobbyists from four tribes since 2001. But no one has focused on Stone's profiteering, which, unlike the payments to registered lobbyists, is not reported on any public filings. ..............

40. Roger Stone, Iran-Contra, NCPAC, Blackwell, Buchanan, Rove, Sex & Trump's Money ...

What role did Stone play in financing the Contras? .............

41. Roger Stone - "slash-and-burn Republican black-bag election tamperer"

A Prayer for Reverend Al
Let Him Buy His Soul Back from the Republicans
by Doug Ireland
www.dissidentvoice.org
February 21, 2004 - First Published in LA Weekly
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Feb04/Ireland0221.htm

Who is Roger Stone? A slash-and-burn Republican black-bag election tamperer and consultant whose mentor was the repulsive Roy Cohn — the redbaiting hatchet man for Senator Joe McCarthy. Stone first made news in the Nixon Watergate scandal, when it was revealed that the 19-year-old apprentice McCarthyite had infiltrated George McGovern’s 1972 presidential campaign as part of CREEP’s sabotage plan. ... Stone helped Ollie North raise money for the Nicaraguan contras, and was a close associate of the notorious Lee Atwater ...

This one, my favorite, exemplifes the lengths to which these unscrupulous operatives will go just to malign a Dem candidate. This is not democracy, it is criminal conduct.

48. Swiftboating Al Gore from Argentina, SIDE, Israeli wire transfers, spy files, forgery, Bush & Menem

There just is no way to make this stuff up!! This is a court pleading. Unbelievable.

First get some spy files from Israel, alter them to look like Argentine spy files, make them implicate Bush and Menem in corruption, blame Gore for the forged documents. Sound familiar. Did I mention blackmailing bribed journalists and, of course, the perennial covert Republican dirty tricksters. This genre of dirty trick came to be known as "swiftboating" when done to Kerry four years later by the same players!!

==========================
http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/041901.P.pdf
Olavar (Triumph Communications International Group, Plaintiffs-Appellants, v.
Santibañes, Defendant-Appellee, and Ikon Holdings, Inc., t/a Ikon Public Affairs, Dick Morris, Roger Stone, Eileen McGann, John Does, Defendants.

Appeal from the United States District Court Decided: December 1, 2005

Triumph Communications International Group, Incorporated is a corporation that provides political consulting and public relations services and is owned and operated solely by Mattie Lolavar.

In early 2000, Miss Lolavar began discussions with defendant Dick Morris about the possibility of her working with Craig Snyder and defendant Roger Stone, who are partners in defendant IKON Holdings, Inc., another political consulting firm ... about the possibility of Triumph Communications’ assistance with work that IKON was doing for the government of Argentina.
These discussions lead to two contracts ... and provided that Triumph would act as a public relations consultant to "the Secretary of Intelligence of Argentina" as well as arrange various media events...

Miss Lolavar went to Argentina in August 2000 to assist de Santibañes with preparations for his testimony in Argentine congressional hearings inquiring into allegations that he and the Argentine intelligence agency, known as SIDE, were responsible for bribing various Argentine senators in exchange for political support. Morris and Stone assigned other tasks to Miss Lolavar while she was in Argentina. Among other acts, they instructed her to contact SIDE and obtain a list of journalists who accepted bribes from that organization in order to harm the credibility of those same journalists in reporting on a bribery scandal surrounding de Santibañes and President de la Rua, as well as requiring her to spread false information to the press concerning de la Rua’s political opponent, Dr. Carlos Menem. The charges and counter-charges related here are from the papers in the court file, as are the other facts.

A request that occasioned controversy between Miss Lolavar and the defendants was Morris and Stone’s request that she serve as an intermediary in an anonymous wire transfer of funds to an official in Israel. These funds were to be paid to secure intelligence files from the Israeli government to assist de la Rua’s political domestic disputes with Menem, and to imply a corrupt relationship between Menem and George W. Bush, who was then running against Albert Gore for the United States presidency. These files were to be altered by Miss Lolavar to appear to be SIDE documents.

When the defendants became concerned that this plot would be discovered and traced back to them, they ordered Miss Lolavar to orchestrate a press response to blame Vice President Gore for the dissemination of the documents, since it was known to them that the Gore campaign had been attempting to connect Menem with the Bush campaign.

[PatSeg]

1. Fascinating

Lots of info I haven't seen before.

[L. Coyote]

7. Follow the link for a whole lot more:

Bush vs. Gore, the 'Arkansas Project,' the USA firings, and the Swiftboat Admiral

Pat Buchanan ... seized control of ... the Reform Party ... became the party's presidential nominee ... (and) mysteriously disappeared, getting 2.4 million votes less than Ralph Nader, 80,000 less in Florida alone. ... Stone and Buchanan were aides to Nixon and Reagan, and Stone, also a Bush I campaign veteran, was rewarded for his subterranean 2000 efforts with an appointment to the Department of Interior transition team, which he parlayed into a multimillion dollar business as an Indian gaming consultant ....Buchanan's vanishing act—after Stone cajoled him to run Reform—left nearly a dozen party leaders contacted by the Voice convinced that he and Stone were conscious agents of doom. ...

... "Buchanan hospitality suite" at the Dearborn, Michigan, convention hotel—with soda and hamburgers and occasional champagne—"was paid for by Roger, who, in turn, said he was covering it with Trump's money." .....

Stone(s) ... sacking of the Reform Party may be his lasting legacy.

Reed began leaning on Smith in late January 2002. Smith even got a note supporting the Stone faction from the Republican leader of the California state senate, Jim Brulte. Stone had recommended the retention of a consulting firm owned by Brulte's former chief of staff, Tom Ross, and Ross wrote the memo summarizing the Buena Vista case that Brulte enclosed. Later in 2002, Stone would host a fundraiser for Brulte at his 40 Central Park South apartment and take Brulte to visit Stone's longtime client Donald Trump.

[DetlefK]

2. Your speculation is based on one glaring mistake:

You are assuming that the Russians are too competent to make this mistake with the settings.

A few months ago, I read a similar speculation here on DU on the topic whether russian agents killed somebody in London with Polonium.
The counter-argument was basically that the assassins were competent enough to pull this off but they were incompetent enough to mishandle the Polonium and leave a trace of radioactive dust. And as russian agents do not fall in this tiny window between competence and incompetence, it couldn't possibly have been russian agents.

It's an extremely weak argument if it's based on speculation that a person X has juuuust the right combination of competence and incompetence to fit a pattern.

[L. Coyote]

3. No mistake at all.

I assume those who intended to leak this information would not want to get caught since it is criminal conduct.
You seem to assume they are too stupid to not get caught while smart enough to do the hack? That's glaring!

The leakers have a problem, they are criminals and subject to prosecution and jail time. They need to cover their tracks rather than convict themselves. Insert Occam's razor here. But, if they want to divide the Democratic party and create havoc for Hillary they need to leak the emails. So, simple solution is to make it seem someone else is the hacker, someone outside the reach and jurisdiction of the United States.

The leak happens just as the convention begins. Their motivation is glaring. Who is so motivated? Insert Occam's razor here too.

[DetlefK]

6. Occam's Razor is about the number of assumptions.

Occam's Razor is about prefering the theory with the least amount of assumptions.

The language-settings and the IP-adresses that link the hackers to Russia are fact, not assumption.

If you want to replace that speculation with another one, you have to replace facts with assumptions about facts. And as the new speculation has more assumptions than the old speculation, the old one is preferable to the new one, per Occam's Razor.



Of course the hackers could be competent enough for the hack but incompetent enough to leave traces. But that possibility by itself is meaningless for the speculation on who did it.

[L. Coyote]

8. Occam's Razor is the logical principle of parsimony, a heuristic maxim, distilled:

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. So, indeed, fewer assumption is better.

You made an assumption "language-settings and the IP-adresses that link the hackers to Russia" when it is more parsimonious to conclude a computer in Russia was involved. Maybe the hackers are not linked to Russia, albeit the computer was in Russia. That's Occam's razor at work, go with fewer assumptions.

[mopinko]

4. yeah, i thought abramoff was gonna sing.

yet not even some low level flunky got nailed.

[L. Coyote]

5. Abramoff could sure tell us a lot about Trump, maybe put him away

if the statutes of limitations allowed. Trump managed to not get overly entangled in the Indian casino scandals, but he was there along with the known felons.

[L. Coyote]

9. The Dirty Trickster, Campaign tips from the man who has done it all.

Long article, New Yorker 2008. Trump seems to have changed his opinion about Stone, or perhaps, just uses him irrespective of his opinion about him. Stone is the opposite of Trump's description though, doing things people try not to get credited with. Perhaps better stated, Stone knows how to dissemble.

The Dirty Trickster

.... For nearly forty years, Stone has hovered around Republican and national politics, both near the center and at the periphery. At times, mostly during the Reagan years, he was a political consultant and lobbyist who, in conventional terms, was highly successful, working for such politicians as Bob Dole and Tom Kean. Even then, though, Stone regularly crossed the line between respectability and ignominy, and he has become better known for leading a colorful personal life than for landing big-time clients. Still, it is no coincidence that Stone materialized in the midst of the Spitzer scandal—and that he had memorable cameos in the last two Presidential elections. While the Republican Party usually claims Ronald Reagan as its inspiration, Stone represents the less discussed but still vigorous legacy of Richard Nixon, whose politics reflected a curious admixture of anti-Communism, social moderation, and tactical thuggery. Stone believes that Nixonian hardball, more than sunny Reaganism, is John McCain’s only hope for the Presidency.

Over the years, Stone’s relationships with colleagues and clients have been so combustible that his value as a messenger has been compromised. Stone worked for Donald Trump as an occasional lobbyist and as an adviser when Trump considered running for President in 2000. “Roger is a stone-cold loser,” Trump told me. “He always tries taking credit for things he never did.” Like Nixon, Stone is also a great hater—of, among others, the Clintons, Karl Rove, and Spitzer. So what happened at Miami Velvet one night last September, he said, amounted to a gift.

“She was sitting right over there,” Stone told me, pointing to a seat at the bar, as we sipped vodka .....

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. Uh huh

[L. Coyote]

11. WikiLeaks : Anyone who claims to know who our source is has no credibility.

WikiLeaks @wikileaks 22 Jul 2016
Note on sourcing #DNCLeaks. We have, as usual, not revealed our sources. Anyone who claims to know who our source is has no credibility.

WikiLeaks @wikileaks
RELEASE: 19,252 emails from the US Democratic National Committee https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/

[L. Coyote]

12. Paul Manafort, Donald Trump’s top adviser, and his ties to pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine

Paul Manafort, Donald Trump’s top adviser, and his ties to pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine


Paul Manafort, the adviser hired by Donald Trump to add stability and institutional know-how to Trump’s often scattershot presidential campaign, has long and deep reported ties to pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine.

PolitiFact, as part of an exchange of journalists sponsored by the U.S. State Department, is hosting two foreign political journalists, including a reporter from Ukraine. We asked that reporter to analyze Manafort’s connections to Ukraine and its political leadership. What follows is her report. ..............

[Hekate]

13. Kick. Rec. Keep digging.

[L. Coyote]

15. Interesting irony, Hillary was a staff member of Nixon's impeachment inquiry.

During 1974, Hillary Rodham was a member of the impeachment inquiry staff in Washington, D.C., advising the Judiciary Committee.[15] Under the guidance of Chief Counsel John Doar and senior member Bernard Nussbaum,[16] Rodham helped research procedures of impeachment and the historical grounds and standards for impeachment.[15] Like other committee staffers, she worked long, sometimes tedious hours. She and the few other women on the staff had to post a sign telling the male staffers that they were not there to make coffee for them.[17] wikipedia

[L. Coyote]

14. Without evidence, reporters have been quick to indict Russian and Putin.

Nonetheless this article does a great job of distinguishing between a lead and a hack:

The DNC Hack Is Watergate, but Worse

.... this document dump wasn’t a high-minded act of transparency. To state the obvious, only one political party has been exposed. (Selectively exposed: Many emails were culled from the abridged dump.) And it’s not really even the inner workings of the Democrats that have been revealed; the documents don’t suggest new layers of corruption or detail any new conspiracies. They’re something closer to the embarrassing emails that fly across every office in America ........

..........

What’s galling about the WikiLeaks dump is the way in which the organization has blurred the distinction between leaks and hacks. Leaks are an important tool of journalism and accountability. When an insider uncovers malfeasance, he brings information to the public in order to stop the wrongdoing. That’s not what happened here. The better analogy for these hacks is Watergate. To help win an election, the Russians broke into the virtual headquarters of the Democratic Party. The hackers installed the cyber-version of the bugging equipment that Nixon’s goons used—sitting on the DNC computers for a year, eavesdropping on everything, collecting as many scraps as possible. This is trespassing, it’s thievery, it’s a breathtaking transgression of privacy. It falls into that classic genre, the dirty trick. Yet that term feels too innocent to describe the offense. Nixon’s dirty tricksters didn’t mindlessly expose the private data of low-level staff.

We should be appalled at the public broadcast of this minutiae. It will have a chilling effect—campaign staffers will now assume they no longer have the space to communicate honestly. This honest communication—even if it’s often trivial or dumb—is important for the process of arriving at sound strategy and sound ideas. ...

Consider our reaction, if an American political leader had pulled this stunt: He would be prosecuted, and drummed from political life. These are unacceptable tactics for an American; they can hardly be more tolerable when executed by a foreign power that wishes us ill. ...........

[L. Coyote]

16. The Daily Show - Donald Trump's Shady Ties to Russia