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Wed Jul 27, 2016, 09:21 AM

 

A different view of what "Bernie or Bust" now means

I'm Bernie or Bust -- But I'm defining it differently, now that the nomination is officially over.

I'll admit this is navel gazing. You can take it with as many grains of salt as you wish. And hopefully in the spirit in which it is intended. (And also within the TOS).....But maybe it'll help provide the perspective of some of us who have "felt the Bern" and are now trying to be "Ready for Hillary."

For me, Bernie is not some guy that came out of the blue. He's not someone who I suddenly heard about over the past year and said: "Finally, a political candidate who is saying what I'm thinking and feeling.".

I've been watching him in Congress and rooting for him since the 1990's. He has ALWAYS resonated with me Big Time. He (along with Wellstone and a few others) were bright lights of hope in an otherwise bleak bipartisan landscape. Apart from those few Great Progressive Democrats, the national political scene was owned by powerful corporations, their wealthy investors and their lobbyists and the corporate media.

As someone with a natural lifetime identification with the stated principles of the Democratic Party, and an inherent dislike of the stated principles of the GOP (and the behavior and attitudes of conservatism) I root for Democrats in the bipartisan tug of war. BUT I also felt that the Democratic Party was both blowing it and selling us out big time. I also identified with "the left" and shared the frustration and anger of Bernie and his progressive peers as the Democrats went along with the Sale of the US of A, the gutting of the working and middle classes and the distorted values of Excessive Corporate Capitalism.

While Democrats wondered about why people went against their own interests and common sense and decency to vote GOP ("What's the Matter with Kansas?" I also felt like my once-moderate form of Liberalism had been abandoned by the Democrats in a variation of the same .....I won't go into the litany of specifics, but it was ongoing and unfortunately too long and too continual.

I didn't feel alone, because I realized that many people agreed with my frustration and hope for something better. For reassurance, I tried to focus on those Democrats who represented it, like Wellstone, Kaptur, Brown and some others. And Bernie....But it was also frustrating because I could not figure out why they were a tiny minority in the Democratic leadership, when their views represented so many people.

That also explains my antipathy to the Clintons, as the embodiment of the faction of "centrists" who were aligned with corporate interests.

I'm also a neighbor of Bernie's state, and know how he resonates on a personal level with his constituents, including those who don't always agree with him. I alsoknow that he really is an effective leader who is as politically sharp as they come. He would have been a great AND effective CEO of the US.

So when Bernie announced, it was like a dream come true. I was excited, but cynical.

I figured he'd be a 15 percent candidate, treated as a member of the "fringe left" but who at least would give voice to the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party. But much to my delight,. he caught fire. It was not simply a horse race between two individuals -- it truly was a representation of a much larger framework.

So I got real passionate.

The past year has fueled both my cynicism and my optimism.

Bernie didn't win the nomination. But he got 45 percent. The wildfire that his campaign became did prove that the values and message he and other progressives represent are NOT A FRINGE. It is Mainstream. He showed that many Democrats....and independents....are also hungry for that message and recasting of the Democratic Party.

I also have supported and defended Bernie in the final months, as it became clear that Clinton would be the nominee. I trusted his judgement when he was being attacked for not just endorsing her and walking away prematurely. And he proved once again that he is one of the best, in terms of how to pragmatically work the political system for good causes.

I am still with Bernie in his decision to support Clinton and work to Stop Trump. And I agree with his decision to build on the movement within the Democratic Party , as well as work to reform the Democratic Party in a more progressive direction. Bernie is playing the Long Game now, and I agree with him in that 100 percent.

But I also now find myself at odds with the more vociferous Bernie or Bust types -- even while I basically agree with them on many levels.

I've had heated arguments with real-world friends who are convinced that Bernie really won...Or that he has "sold out" or worse that he was a "plant" by the DNC to give token opposition, while ultimately supporting her. I have to restrain myself from grabbing them by the shoulders and shaking them and saying "Get real! Do you know who the opposition now is? DONALD FUCKING TRUMP!"

It's a weird mix. I listened to an interview with Jill Stein, and basically agree with her analysis of the nation. But I see her as a spoiler who is diverting attention from the need to Stop Trump.

My opinion of Clinton has not changed. My ears glaze over when I hear her speak. I am worried that she won't follow through if elected. I fear that the Democratic Party will "move on" from what Sanders represents and go back to the Same Old Shit...

.But, I am trying to focus on the areas in which I agree with her, I'm trying to appreciate her good qualities.....Trying to feel enthusiasm. Trying to hope that she will do what she now says she will do, in trms of progressive change and reform.

I'm polite by nature. Were I attending the Democratic convention I would not have booed. I might have even told the more diehard Bernie or Busters to cool it, because they are harming the bigger cause....But I also feel their pain and share it.

I support Clinton in the General Election. I'm not thinking beyond that for now. But I also don't want the Democratic Party to go back to being Clintonized in the sense of once again locking out real reform and change once they have our votes.

Like I said, this is personal. But I think many people are in the same boat, and going through the same soul searching and mixture of conflicting emotions.

Ultimately, I'm optimistic that Bernie has been the catalyst for a REAL CHANGE. And if we can successfully get through this election and throw Trump into the Dumpster -- and weaken the GOP -- the Democratic Party will open the doors and windows and become a real mainstream progressive alternative to the GOP.

So for me, it's Bernie or Bust -- in the Long Game

62 replies, 3251 views

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Arrow 62 replies Author Time Post
Reply A different view of what "Bernie or Bust" now means (Original post)
Armstead Jul 2016 OP
Dustlawyer Jul 2016 #1
auntpurl Jul 2016 #2
global1 Jul 2016 #9
auntpurl Jul 2016 #10
forjusticethunders Jul 2016 #16
auntpurl Jul 2016 #41
Tom Rinaldo Jul 2016 #22
auntpurl Jul 2016 #38
calimary Jul 2016 #36
auntpurl Jul 2016 #40
calimary Jul 2016 #47
B Calm Jul 2016 #3
Scuba Jul 2016 #4
geek tragedy Jul 2016 #5
auntpurl Jul 2016 #8
Armstead Jul 2016 #26
Armstead Jul 2016 #25
geek tragedy Jul 2016 #27
John Poet Jul 2016 #61
global1 Jul 2016 #6
wrightl Jul 2016 #7
calimary Jul 2016 #39
Raster Jul 2016 #11
LonePirate Jul 2016 #12
erronis Jul 2016 #51
Voltaire Jul 2016 #13
retrowire Jul 2016 #14
calimary Jul 2016 #42
retrowire Jul 2016 #46
mnhtnbb Jul 2016 #56
retrowire Jul 2016 #58
Peacetrain Jul 2016 #15
angrychair Jul 2016 #17
pnwmom Jul 2016 #18
avaistheone1 Jul 2016 #19
Saviolo Jul 2016 #20
calimary Jul 2016 #34
Saviolo Jul 2016 #43
Tom Rinaldo Jul 2016 #21
Tatiana Jul 2016 #23
fleabiscuit Jul 2016 #24
Armstead Jul 2016 #30
fleabiscuit Jul 2016 #45
PWPippin Jul 2016 #28
erronis Jul 2016 #50
PoiBoy Jul 2016 #29
Lifelong Protester Jul 2016 #31
calimary Jul 2016 #32
Armstead Jul 2016 #48
calimary Jul 2016 #49
Armstead Jul 2016 #57
GoneOffShore Jul 2016 #33
Armstead Jul 2016 #37
Avalux Jul 2016 #35
silverweb Jul 2016 #44
emulatorloo Jul 2016 #52
NCTraveler Jul 2016 #53
Armstead Jul 2016 #55
NCTraveler Jul 2016 #62
jamese777 Jul 2016 #54
Skidmore Jul 2016 #59
Armstead Jul 2016 #60

Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 09:34 AM

1. +1!!! I could have written this myself, but you beat me to it!

This is me too!

I was explaining the Bernie "long game" to my mother last night.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 09:35 AM

2. I think Hillary is and has always been far more liberal than Bill.

Looking at her record in the Senate, she certainly was. And not just the bills she voted on. I don't know if you watched the convention last night, but it was a real push to try to make people see the real Hillary.

One of the problems I have with Hillary (and I say this as a FERVENT Hillary supporter) is that she cannot seem to find a speaking style that makes her come across as authentic. Every now and then, she hits it (the speech the day after the RNC in Tampa is a good example). But, I think as a result of the relentless hounding she gets from the RW and the intense scrutiny she's been under for almost 3 decades, her public speaking is often guarded, closed off, and comes off as less genuine. No one could blame her for choosing her words carefully - if she says one thing wrong, she will fall off this ledge she's been walking on. She said ONE stupid thing this primary season (the Nancy Reagan thing) - and it was stupid. She apologised and apologised for it, and there are still some people who are withholding their vote over it. She cannot, and never has been able to, catch a break. She is a powerful woman in politics, the MOST powerful woman in American politics, she is dangerous for the GOP, and they know it. They will exploit EVERY weakness. If she opens a crack, they will force it open. And all of this makes her guarded. And because of that, in speeches she sounds inauthentic. She can't connect the way, say, Michelle Obama can. It's also not her forte and she knows that and admits it freely.

Last night, I heard stories about how she has tried to help everyday Americans for all of her public life. She has worked harder than I've ever worked, tirelessly and without giving up, to register Mexican voters in Texas, improve schools in Arkansas, get 8 million kids insured under CHIP, help get foster kids into permanent adoption, make sure 9/11 first responders get the medical care they need even when they fell through the cracks. THAT is a liberal record, in my view. She has helped a lot of people. When she's in office, she has sky-high approval ratings. When she's RUNNING for office, suddenly they're in the toilet again. Why is that? It's because the RW KNOWS that she will advance a liberal agenda and they NEED to tear her down. And so many Democrats in this primary made it easier for them by buying those RW lies.

Is she perfect? Of course not. She's made some TERRIBLE decisions in her career. The biggest one of course being the IWR vote. She's had a long career and she's made mistakes. But I think she's done so much good, and on such a LIBERAL agenda, that I think she will make a fantastic president. She does not have Obama or Bill's soaring oratory. She's not the girl next door, the good old boy. She's spiky and awkward sometimes. But that's because I don't think she really gives a crap about any of that. She wants to govern. She doesn't want to be a star. She wants to be in a stuffy conference room with a bunch of briefing documents, hammering out some deal to make people's lives better. And I LOVE THAT about her.

She's run on a very liberal platform. Bernie's given her his support. Give her a shot, and hold her feet to the fire. Make her be the president you want. She works for us.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 10:00 AM

9. My Gut Tells Me That Her Speaking Style Going Forward Will Change...

She will be less guarded and freer to speak what she feels and will speak her mind. Why? Because she has achieved her goal as President and doesn't have to worry about what she says now - she will be the Commander and Chief.

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Response to global1 (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 10:02 AM

10. I hope you're right.

In small groups, she's funny, warm, genuine. Onstage she's sometimes like a robot. I would love to see Hillary relaxed as president, able to speak her mind. What comes out is usually brilliant.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:00 AM

16. I know a lot of people like this

 

I think she's just an introvert deep down. That "amazing one on one/in small groups versus awkward in large groups" is classic introvert behavior. I also think deep down she takes the hate and malice personally and has adapted her communication style in response.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:32 PM

41. I agree with all you say here nt

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:33 AM

22. I agree that she's always been more liberal than Bill

That is a good thing, but she's traveled down a long winding road with him. I only hope that somehow it can still lead her home.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:30 PM

38. Bernie's given her political cover to advance a progressive agenda

Even if you believe she naturally wants to pull to the center (which I don't, but I know a lot of people do), and even if you believe she is the head counselor at Camp Weathervane (which I also don't, but I know some people do), the good news is Bernie showed that a LOT of people in America want more progressive policies. If she's the political opportunist some people think she is, then she'll take advantage of that opportunity.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:24 PM

36. This isn't a post. It's a freakin' Work of Art, auntpurl!

Breath-taking! Kinda like last night was, watching the convention (for me, anyway)!

BRAVA!!!!!!!

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Response to calimary (Reply #36)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:31 PM

40. Well, thanks. :)

Thanks for your nice words. I meant it. I think she's amazing. A flawed, human woman, who is also incredibly competent, hard-working, and cares about people so fiercely she's willing to put up with the unbelievable amount of shit she takes all day, every day. The woman is RICH. She could retire and enjoy her twilight years with her grandchildren. She wants to make this country a better place. I admire her immensely.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #40)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 02:23 PM

47. This is another great point you make.

She's wealthy, she's got a gorgeous house, she's got all kinds of work opportunities through the Clinton Foundation that could keep her quite well occupied for the rest of her days. What the hell does she need this nonstop persecution for? I think I would have packed it in a long time ago.

Every time I see her or a photo of her, I can't help thinking about that Elton John song "I'm Still Standing." Should be her theme song!

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 09:37 AM

3. K&R Great post!

 

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 09:40 AM

4. Great post, thanks.

 

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 09:45 AM

5. people tend to personalize broader political trends.

 

After four absolute massacres in 5 elections (1972, 1980, 1984, 1988) with only the Watergate backlash 1976 election in our column, it was pretty clear the Democratic party was not competitive on a national level. It's one thing to say there was an overreaction to McGovern, it's another when you combined it with ReaganX2 and Poppy Bush.

What did people think would happen?

It was those drubbings--not Bill Clinton--that moved the party towards the center right. Would someone as liberal as Obama or Hillary Clinton have stood a chance in the 1992 demographics? No.

Hillary's also more liberal than Bill on social and economic issues. Her foreign policy isn't where I'd like it to be, but it's classic DC consensus stuff, not neocon bloodlust.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 09:59 AM

8. Good post. Remembering history in all its context is important. nt

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:49 AM

26. I remember the context very well....and all the steps along the way

 

I don't agree with the direction the Democratic took in response to the Reagan Revolution.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:48 AM

25. The Democrats needed to adjust after the drubbing in the 80's but....

 

I think they threw the liberal baby out with the bathwater.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #25)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:52 AM

27. it's an art not a science.

 

Al Gore was less liberal than Obama in 2008 or Clinton in 2016, still the chasm between him and Bush was extreme.

A lot of Clinton's rightward drift was due to how poorly his first two years of liberal policymaking played with voters. Backlash to attempts to end the ban on gays and lesbians in the military, tax increases, attempt to reform health care.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 04:11 PM

61. We should have won in 1988-- but Dukakis BLEW it.

 

He came out of his convention with a 15-point lead, and let it get chipped away by not responding to attacks quickly enough. I think we would have won that year with a candidate like Obama or Clinton who refute attacks in a timely manner, instead of sitting there for weeks and months just taking it.

Dukakis also lacked a clear simple theme until about the last three weeks of the campaign, when polls showed him closing the gap as voters responded to his "I'm on your side" message.. but it was just too late.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 09:52 AM

6. You Have Expressed My Sentiments Better Than I Could Have....

Thank You!!!

We Bernie supporters now will have to help Bernie keep Hillary true to her compromises on this Progressive Dem Platform.

I coined what I think is a new abbreviation for us to use here on DU - and that is 'WWBD' or 'What Would Bernie Do' (if he were the President).

Your post gave me another idea about what Bernie or Bust means. I'm using this strictly as 'tongue and cheek' and not in any sexist way to offend women - but Bernie or Bust could mean Bernie's way or Hillary's way.

Get it 'bust'.

Oh come on now I'm trying to be funny. If one of the late night show hosts or SNL said this most people would laugh.

You'll have to excuse me as I've been sleep deprived lately as I'm going thru some health issues and my mind gets silly when I don't get my full compliment of sleep.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 09:53 AM

7. Democracy Works!!

I agree with Bernie supporters, but I am Clinton supporter. This shows democracy works. Bernie definitely lit a fire that the Democrats needed! The fact that the two campaigns were able to meet and the party honored Bernie's demands that certain issues be addressed like raise in minimum wage, free college tuition, addressing climate change and on and on! That's a huge win, but a win that benefits both and everyone. Democracy at work! Bernie supporters have the right to be angry and to vent! I respect that greatly! But the party still has unity, cohesion, inclusion, diversity, and a very progressive momentum. We need to keep that momentum and continue to move forward and not let the opposition (Republicans) try to divide us. We have a very real enemy in Trump who is connected to a much worse enemy Putin/Russia!

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Response to wrightl (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:30 PM

39. Welcome to DU, wrightl!

Glad you're here. This is one GREAT thread, too.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 10:03 AM

11. Armstead, thank you. I am so completely in-tune with what you wrote...

...that it could have been me writing the same. Bernie truly has my heart, but in this General Election, Hillary Clinton has my vote. I am fervently hoping that that her candidacy AND HER ELECTION AS POTUS, instigates a paradigm shift to the truly progressive side.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 10:33 AM

12. As a Bernie voter during the primaries, the Busters mystify me.

Bernie outperformed everyone's expectations this year and he invigorated the party immensely. The party platform contains the vast majority of Bernie's agenda and priorities. In our democracy where compromise is a linchpin, Bernie has had a wildly successful year.

Yet somehow, that's not enough for the Busters. They want 100% or nothing. They have no interest in compromise or cooperation. What they want is closer to totalitarianism, not democracy. Do they not recognize this?

Hillary is exceptionally intelligent, experienced and competent. She will move us forward and her vision of America is much more similar to Bernie's than that of the regressive buffoon on the Republican ticket. Trump embodies and supports nothing which the Busters (or even Bernie) supports. It boggles the mind that they would risk getting nothing instead of opting for receiving most of what they want. That is irrational and insane. I simply do not understand their viewpoint and tactics in that regard.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:13 PM

51. Wonder how many disrupters were paid from the Trump/Putin camp?

Not charitable but not something I'd put beyond Mein Trumpf.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 10:39 AM

13. Thank you

I am right where you are. I could not have expressed this any better myself. Let's go beat Trump and then see what happens from there.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 10:51 AM

14. I too, have found myself downright alienated by the busters

Bernie has thrown in the towel. Nothing will make him president now.

Jill Stein can not possibly win.

And there are unfortunately only two choices. This is the way our system is made.

Bernie or Bust isn't the options.

It is Hillary or ohmyfuckinggodicantbelieveamericalettrumphappen.

We don't have to love Hillary like we love Bernie. But we DO have to love our fellow man to the point that we understand we would be doing America a GREAT disservice to allow Trump to govern it.

And voting Hillary seems to be the only way to stop that.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:34 PM

42. Oh MAN, retrowire...

I freakin' LOVE this:

"It is Hillary or ohmyfuckinggodicantbelieveamericalettrumphappen."

DAYUM you're good.

PLEASE let's make sure we don't wake up the morning after the election, shocked, horrified at what we've just done, and begging for a do-over - like the Brits did after the Brexit vote!!!

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Response to calimary (Reply #42)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 01:17 PM

46. brexit always comes to mind. nt

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Response to retrowire (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:44 PM

56. I am in the same place and have been supporting Bernie.

There's a lot of self-righteous back-patting going on among some Bernie or busters that they are determined to "vote their conscience" (Stein) and
unwillingness to understand the disaster that will come to this country should Donald Trump be elected.

I don't hear a concern among any of these 'busters' of what will happen to their fellow citizens who are struggling to get by--or have given up struggling and are homeless
or living in poverty already--should Trump win. We've seen on a small scale here in NC just what happens when Republicans take over. They are literally destroying
this state--in the four short years they've been in power--and made it a laughingstock not only in the rest of the country, but internationally, too. There are a lot of
Republican governors standing by in more states ready to do the bidding of a Trump administration.

It scares the crap out of me. We must stop Trump and the only way I see that happening is to elect Hillary and focus on the long game of holding her accountable
to the progressive values espoused by Bernie.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #56)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:51 PM

58. exactly.

The idea that a Trump presidency would be harmless because both dems and repubs would just obstruct him for four years is stupid because...

1. It's what the Republicans have always wanted, they just don't like how uncensored it is.

And

2. Who the fuck wants a government that isn't doing ANYTHING for 4 fucking years?

Those are my reasons apart from how heinous Trump is. It's too risky. We have too much to lose and will at least be able to keep some of it under a Hillary presidency. A little is better than nothing.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 10:56 AM

15. Yep. I had a hard time when O'Malley was not viable

I had literally been supporting him to run since 2014..and you have to step back..but if all you have is NO.. then you are voting for the other side.. its just that simple.. and all the Bernie people I know locally are fully backing Hillary.. In fact one of them I had to calm down a couple of days ago..she was so upset.. feeling like some group had stolen her campaign.. she was very angry with the BOB's

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:04 AM

17. My dear compatriot Armstead

That was very well said!
Thank you for taking the time to put down on paper how a lot of us feel.
It may not be Bernie but this spark has become a flame and we will carry it forward. We will shape the Democratic Party for decades into the future. We are the Party's future.
We are better together.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:04 AM

18. Thank you for recognizing the immediate need, that we should all get behind, is to defeat

Donald Trump. And hopefully that will also bring many more Dems into Congress. And that's when we can put our full, joined efforts into real change.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:23 AM

19. Proud to recommend this post.

 

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:24 AM

20. What I really hope is that:

Bernie's revolution will spawn a bunch of young progressives plugged in and turned on to politics who will start to get involved at the local level and start to filter up through the ranks. City counselors to mayors to governors to congresscritters to senators to the White House.

This hard rush of enthusiasm is important to start even a small upswell of young, bright-eyed progressives that will eventually take over the political landscape and drag that Overton Window back to the left!

The Bernie or Busters are really upset, though they are a very small minority. I can understand why they're upset, for many of them, this is their first political love affair. You know what they say about first loves! So, they're super upset right now. It's vital that their unhappiness is recognized and understood so that they can be encouraged and brought on board and start that groundswell.

If even a handful of new young progressives enter the political arena because of Bernie's message, that much can be measured a success.

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Response to Saviolo (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:20 PM

34. I hope that, too, Saviolo. JOB ONE: GOTV during the MIDTERMS.

The more those who want to keep Bernie's revolution alive actually get up and go to the polls and vote more Dems into office (THAT'S where the progressives will be. The GOP will give you NOTHING), the more that revolution will succeed. And take over.

Unfortunately, Democrats pretty reliably get lazy and apathetic in midterm election season. That is a HUGE mistake. We could have hung onto the House of Reps. We especially could have kept the teabaggers from gaining a foothold in 2010. But it was another midterm election. Dems didn't bother.

We're usually, reliably, good about turning out the vote during Presidential election cycles.

However... that's NOT enough!!!!

WE CANNOT AFFORD TO SIT ON OUR BUTTS AND BLOW OFF THE MIDTERMS!!!!!

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Response to calimary (Reply #34)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:37 PM

43. For sure!

Now's the time to latch on to the enthusiasm, nurture it, and reach out to understand why they're frustrated. Introduce them to the long game that the GOP played so very well, and make sure the BOBs know that it's partially up to them to run that long game back in the faces of the GOP and reclaim progressive values in the USA.

Up here in Canada, we've been experiencing a swing to the left, away from Harper and his restrictive and tightly controlled conservative cabinet, and I'd love to see the US follow the same arc.

Edit: Not that you're coming out from under a right-wing leader, just a right-wing Congress

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:29 AM

21. You got it exactly Armstead, Thank You

Now let's get the job done of keeping Trump out of the White House by putting Hillary in it, and then get on with the real long time struggle. I have so much respect for how Bernie has positioned himself throughout all of this, I will still be with him at the other end of this election cycle.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:39 AM

23. Great post. I still feel the Bern, but I'm with Hillary.

Bernie has truly changed the direction of this party and I will be forever grateful to him for that fact. He did ignite a revolution and it's only the beginning.

You're right -- the values and ideas Bernie has articulated ARE MAINSTREAM. He, along with his supporters, made that happen!

He was a class act through and through. He didn't play third party spoiler because he knew the stakes were too high. He is working within the system to effect change in a way that no other politician has done, perhaps since Bobby Kennedy.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:44 AM

24. Well said, and mirrors somewhat my household.

At first we were both in love with Hillary, as we knew her and Bernie seemed like a long shot. And a possible first woman president! That's a big deal. Then as Bernie progressed we fell in love with him. (By this time we had sent small donations to both camps.) Then words got harsher between them and on social media. I fell back in love with HRC, wife went Bernie. That was some strange times. We kinda just stretched some imaginary Concertina wire between our chairs and tried not to take pot shots at either one. Not always successful and I admit I was the worse offender. Now it's settled and peace is back in 'biscuit land!

Anyone catch this video of Bernie talking to the California delegation?

Sanders:
“It is easy to boo, but it’s harder to look your kids in the face who would be living under Donald Trump. Trump is the worst candidate for president in the modern history of this country.”

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/sanders-bernie-or-bust-movement-i-m-not-you-n617186

Edit: changed video location as nbc is having props...

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Response to fleabiscuit (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:58 AM

30. Glad there is peace again in the bisquit household

 

One of my closest friends -- a true BoB er -- and I are studiously avoiding talking politics at the moment.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:53 PM

45. It probably helped that we both liked them both. eom

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:57 AM

28. Beautifully stated!

You have encapsulated my feelings and beliefs. I am passing this on to others who feel as we do. I would love your message to reach the young people who put so much passion, energy and beliefs in Bernie and who were in tears at the convention. They brought back painful memories of other thwarted elections to this 73 year old Democrat. Bernie is pragmatic and, I'm sure, is reading the winds to know where best to put his and our energies going forward. Like you, I'm with him in the Long Game.

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Response to PWPippin (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:11 PM

50. Ditto here - with him and the REAL democratic party for the Long Game.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 11:58 AM

29. Thank you Armstead...

...for speaking for me...

The Revolution continues...










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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:04 PM

31. The revolution goes on

and will have a better chance at continuing under Hillary. I don't want us to 'throw it all away' at this point.

good post!

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:08 PM

32. This is a Thing of Beauty, Armstead.

As a dyed-in-the-wool Hillary supporter, I SO appreciate the worthy points you made here.

But this one is the best of all:

I have to restrain myself from grabbing them by the shoulders and shaking them and saying "Get real! Do you know who the opposition now is? DONALD FUCKING TRUMP!"

DAYUM!

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Response to calimary (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 02:49 PM

48. Mike Fucking Pense too...though that doesn't have the same ring to it

 

He's pleasanter than Trump but worse politically and philosophically.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #48)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:03 PM

49. That whole idea is utterly terrifying to me.

Mike Fucking Pence INDEED! Terrifying!!! A true religious fanatic. An individual who WOULD impose Christian Sharia Law on our whole country, the way he's tried to do in Indiana.

And what freaks me out most is what was reported about when the Trumpeters (and son-of-Trump) were trying to talk Kasich into joining the ticket awhile back. Trying to lure him in with promises of BIG-time power and influence. "The most powerful VP in history" (remember the last time we had that? His name was dick cheney ). "You'd be responsible for both domestic AND international affairs." (I'm paraphrasing.) And why would that be? As Trump Junior is quoted as saying - there are parts of the President's job that he doesn't want to do."

THAT really got me. SO, Donald, you're applying for a job you want America to hire you to do, BUT THERE ARE PARTS OF THAT JOB THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO DO??????????????????? Just that alone is too much. But Holy Cow, that is, pardon the pun, manna from heaven for an extremist evangelical with political ambitions. Probably the sweetest music a guy like Pense could ever hope to hear.

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Response to calimary (Reply #49)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:47 PM

57. Trump would probably prefer Salesman in Chief

 

Just go out and talk about how great he'll make America, without having to worry about the messy details.

Then he could blame it all on Pense when America catches on.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:15 PM

33. So, which navy are you gazing at?

Naval - ships and shit

Navel - umbilicus - often used as staring into ones soul.

That was distracting from the get go.

Otherwise, an excellent rant and I'm with you.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #33)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:29 PM

37. The umbilical variety....am changing the "a" to an e

 

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:24 PM

35. You've expressed where I'm at to a "T".

Thank you for saying it; there are so many of us doing some deep internal maneuvering at this point.

Bernie's Revolution will continue and I will continue to be a part of it; our job now is to hold the DNC/Hillary's feet to the fire and make sure they deliver on what they've agreed to incorporate into their platform. What Bernie started is real because he is real; I've been waiting to support a person of Bernie's integrity my whole life.

That said, I'll vote for Hillary. I can't say I'm enthusiastic but like you I'm trying to be positive about it. I will probably never like her and I've made clear why during the primary, but I am trying to move on.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:39 PM

44. Well said!

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Bernie's concession was a hard pill to swallow, but we have to look at it as part of the bigger picture. We're stuck with a 2-party system for now, like it or not. Bernie is an idealist, but a practical one. He knows how things really work, which is how he's accomplished so much in his unwaveringly consistent career.

Consider that the Tea Party didn't exist as a third party in opposition to the GOP, but basically took over the GOP and pulled it hard to the right. If we're smart, we'll act similarly and load Congress with "Berniecrats," substantially increasing the size and power of the Progressive Caucus within the Democratic Party. That's how we'll pull the party back to the left and make it once again the party of The People.

The Greens are a wonderful group and I actually think of myself as a "Green Democrat." My blue-green avatar is meant to reflect this concept. As a party, however, the Greens don't currently stand a chance in federal elections. It took the Tea Party only a few years to completely hijack the GOP, and we Berniecrats have the numbers to pull the Dems back to their core left-of-center values by being just as loud and persistent within the party, but not by abandoning and splintering it.

Our new president will be either Clinton or Trump. That's the reality and nothing will change it for the upcoming election. The well-being of everyday Americans as well as the overall health and progressive transformation of the nation are my paramount concerns, so Trump is unthinkable. Conscience now demands that I move into the Clinton camp, as well as support the most progressive congressional candidates running for office, specifically those endorsed by Bernie.

Bernie said, "[font color="teal"]Not me, US![font color="navy"]" and I choose to move forward with him in that spirit. It's what he's decided and I follow his lead.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:17 PM

52. Well said! Thanks for taking the time to write and post this.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:19 PM

53. If you are going to define it this way, which I respect,....

 

What are you calling the other people you define as Bernie or Bust. I truly enjoyed reading that but you left your definition behind at one point and went with the more well known definition. You have made distinction between yourself and what is more common to then use the standard meaning as well.

Thanks for sharing.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #53)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:43 PM

55. Bernie for President or Bust? Anyone but Clinton?

 

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Response to Armstead (Reply #55)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 04:18 PM

62. I would go with ignorant.

 

Last edited Wed Jul 27, 2016, 05:01 PM - Edit history (1)

I do like what you did here but I also don't like associating you with the term. You will begrudgingly vote for Clinton while continuing to pulls the party left. You have a long history here and you fit in very well with the party. You are a Democrat. Sometimes a very oppositional and grumpy one, as I am. Shit, outside of primaries I stay registered independents. Had to after the state parties support of Crist.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:28 PM

54. The American Conservative Union

rates every member of Congress on how conservative their voting record is. In 2014 they said this about Hillary Clinton's voting record in the Senate: "Another interesting fact in our analysis is the stark reminder that Sec. Hillary Clinton is no moderate. While many in the media portray her as more centrist than self-described Socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) or fringe activist Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), Clinton’s lifetime rating of 8.13% is within two percentage points from those extremists. And shockingly, all three of these presidential hopefuls are even more liberal than President Barack Obama’s Lifetime Rating of 10% from when he served in the U.S. Senate. If America wants a third Obama term, three candidates will not disappoint."

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 03:54 PM

59. I've always understood the "bust" part of that to

mean if Sanders lost, bust the whole system. I've always considered it a threat from the contingent that appears to be linked more to the anarchist school of thought.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #59)

Wed Jul 27, 2016, 04:06 PM

60. An old travel term obviously

 

Some interesting photos online from the 30's with "California or Bust" on the side of vehicles and other historic variatins, but most copyrighted so can't post.

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