According to David Shuster, no delegates are being allowed in with "No TPP" signs

[democrattotheend]

From twitter:

@BernieSanders delegates say they've been warned "no access" to hall tonight if carrying anti-TPP signs.

I don't know how I feel about this. I have no problem with people carrying protest signs and I don't like the idea of banning Bernie delegates en mass because of a few loudmouths. But given how disruptive they have been the last few nights I can understand why the DNC is doing this. That said, I am afraid taking away people's signs will just lead to more vocal protests. I would rather people carry signs than heckle.

[tonyt53]

1. To use an old saying, They are beating a dead horse with the TPP signs. She said she opposed it.

[former9thward]

50. She also said it was the "gold standard".

After November who knows what she will say.

[lapucelle]

53. Didn't Clinton make that remark in 2012 when she was SOS?

Wasn't it her job in 2012 to be a strong advocate for the president's policies, and wasn't TPP one of Obama's chief foreign policy initiatives?

[lapucelle]

64. Excuse me?

I believe the Democratic nominee. I take Hillary Clinton at her word. You seem to be implying that the Democratic nominee is lying.

[Vattel]

74. My guess is that she is lying. And she didn't rule out that with some tweaks she would favor it

Was she lying when she said that it was the gold standard of trade agreements? I don't think so. Personally, I don't know whether TPP would be good or bad, but I do think that Clinton believes it would be good.

[Vattel]

75. You seem to be implying that she was lying when she said it was the gold standard.

[lapucelle]

78. Not at all.

As SOS, her job was to advocate for President Obama's policies. I don't have an issue with someone thinking "as trade policies go, this is the gold standard, but I still don't want it."

[Vattel]

95. Oh, so you only think she was being deceitful, but not literally lying.

[Sancho]

79. Why do you repeat the lie?

Hillary said that there was potential for the incomplete process to produce a trade agreement that was a gold standard. She also said she would not vote for a trade agreement that costs jobs. She also said she wanted monetary controls.

Hillary voted AGAINST the only trade agreement that came up while she was a Senator.

Hillary has always considered the various parts of complex trade agreements to decide if they were favorable or unfavorable.

You realize there are some very positive parts of the "TPP" as currently written, and it's not passed yet. The US currently has about 20 trade agreements. Not all are "bad".

Not having a trade agreement could also be "bad".

After November Hillary will say what she has always said. Trade agreements depend on what's in them!!! If the final product is good, she is for it. If the final product is bad, she is against it. Unfortunately, many trade agreements include both good and bad, so it's not a simple decision. It requires thinking about and understanding complex issues.

For reference:

http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-immigrants-silly-tribal-and-economically-illiterate-358369

http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-12-30/nafta-20-years-after-neither-miracle-nor-disaster

http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1212/pros-and-cons-of-nafta.aspx

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/u-s-economy-since-nafta-18-charts/

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/nafta-20-years-later-benefits-outweigh-costs/

http://www.ttgconsultants.com/articles/freetrade.html

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2015-06-16/what-the-proposed-pacific-trade-deal-could-mean-for-u-s-jobs
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2015-02-03/understanding_the_trans_pacific_partnership_and_what_the_trade_deal_could_mean_for_the_u_s_economy

[stevenleser]

97. And of course crickets to you in response. nt

[CentralMass]

76. It remains to be seen if that was just lip service.

[merrily]

77. Because of some unspecified provisions. She also said she would re-negotiate it.

[Ken Burch]

96. Then they have no reason to bar people with "No TPP" signs, do they? n/t.

[femmocrat]

2. They have been holding them up for three nights. Everyone got their point by now.

I hope no one heckles Hillary's acceptance speech. This is for the history books now.

[yeoman6987]

37. I'd rather signs then yelling

I bet they will replace signs with a voice slogan to get the point across. Not sure if this is a good idea especially the last night. I would have done it last Night to see what the reaction was. Better to heckle last night then tonight.

[fun n serious]

3. I would normally oppose purging them

But they are taking this too far.

[DemonGoddess]

4. I'd say that

what this is, is the party wanting to ensure that the ultimate night of our convention goes smoothly.

[BlueMTexpat]

68. +1! eom

[LenaBaby61]

5. According to David Shuster, no delegates are being allowed in with "No TPP" signs.

What's to stop them from hiding the signs and sneaking them in there? It's a bad situation either way--if they bring the signs in they'll be loud and rowdy. If they don't bring the signs in they'll still be loud and rowdy. Some folks are just damned determined to be noticed and to steal Hillary's moment no matter what.

[Hekate]

6. This is not the night for that. They have been given enormous leeway. They got 80% of what Bernie...

...wanted in the platform according to Bernie.

Just go harass Benedict Donald for awhile.

[sarae]

55. I've been hearing 80%, but apparently they did even better...

I heard Elijah Cummings say they got 90% yesterday...

found a link where it says that:

http://www.ktvn.com/story/32566649/cummings-protesters-during-dnc-speech-were-disrespectful

Maryland Rep. Elijah Cummings says he thinks liberal supporters of Bernie Sanders who chanted an anti-trade slogan during his speech to the Democratic National Convention were "disrespectful."

But Cummings says he is not upset about it because he is a veteran of civil rights protests and understands the passions that drove the mostly young delegates to shout over him on Monday. More than 100 people have since apologized for the outbursts, Cummings said.

In an interview Thursday, Cummings said most of those who were shouting probably didn't know that he worked with Sanders as chairman of the convention's platform drafting committee. "Bernie got 90 percent of what he wanted," he said.

[brooklynite]

7. Not seeing any...

I see "clean energy revolution" signs in the Bernie section

[timlot]

8. Yes. Thank God. Let the purge begin.

They had plenty of nights for all that. Tonight is not the night.

[geek tragedy]

9. Shuster is a toxic Clinton hater who said Hillary was pimping her own daughter.

He's about as reliable as Donald Trump.

Fuck that guy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. He also believed in the Indictment Fairy

[geek tragedy]

16. From July 1

FBI sources expect her to be indicted, believe evidence + laws are clear.

Major tool.

[lapucelle]

56. Schuster also made the "pimping out Chelsea" remark in 2008.

[merrily]

81. What does that have to do with whether TPP signs are being kept out?

[geek tragedy]

82. he's an axe-grinder who lacks credibility, nt

[merrily]

84. So, they are being let in, if people don't sneak them in?

Because Susan Sarandon in the photo upthread looks might mischievous about having gotten that sign into the hall.

[geek tragedy]

85. I really don't form any opinions re: the physical universe based on Susan Sarandon. nt

[merrily]

87. IOW, you have no idea if Shuster's report is correct or not, but hoped to make it seem incorrect by

dredging up unrelated stuff about him.

[geek tragedy]

88. that is exactly the point, we never know whether he's telling the truth.

This was a guy who said a bunch of superdelegates were going to flip to Bernie after California voted, who said the FBI was dead set on indicting Clinton, etc.

He's a fabulist.

It's possible that someone handed him a piece of accurate information, but there's zero reason to treat his claims any more seriously than an anonymous rumor on Reddit.

[merrily]

89. That's a logical fallacy, not a point.

The truth or falsehood of this is highly knowable, although not by showing a pic of one personwho snuck in her sign.

DUers too often tries to distract from the message by attacking the messenger, whether it's a fellow DUer or a source in real life.

I actually saw this post: "Truth is truth, no matter where it appears, replied to by something like "Um, no."

That's insane.

[geek tragedy]

90. it's not highly knowable.

there's the existence of the signs at the speeches, but one doesn't know if they were allowed in or smuggled in

David Shuster deals in rumors, not facts. This is a rumor.

[merrily]

91. Now, *that* is a fair statement (especially since I don't feel like trying to research).

[geek tragedy]

92. and especially since it's possible some people were allowed in with them

and others had them taken, and all of the permutations in between

I myself would find it strange behavior to seize them, since Clinton has come out against the TPP.

[jalan48]

10. I support Bernie and I also oppose the TPP.

That being said, tonight is Hillary's night. Let her and her supporters enjoy the moment. It is historic and we will have plenty of time to oppose the TPP in the days ahead.

[redstatebluegirl]

26. Thank you but you appear to be in the minority.

I expect lots of boo birds tonight to ruin a historic moment for a lot of us. How would they feel if the Bernie had won and Hillary supporters began booing him?

Thanks for not being one of them.

[jalan48]

32. Your welcome. Yes, if the shoe was reversed we would be upset as well.

It's her night. Let the people celebrate it.

[beachbum bob]

11. good move...the convention is no longer about relvolution or malcontents....

[procon]

12. Last night, I saw homemade signs with folded creases as if they had been

hidden under clothing to get past security checks. Other people had used black markers to write over the convention signs. So, nothing will stop these diehard agitators -- and several reporters point to the California delegation as the chief instigators -- from trying to stop the program.

[MADem]

17. They were not home-made, those TPP signs--they were on thin, but high gloss paper.

See the chief complainer just downthread with one of the signs in the pic I posted...

[procon]

33. There were lots of different signs, yeah?

Your milage may vary, but don't tell me what I saw and I'll pretend this really isn't an argument about what you didn't see.

[redstatebluegirl]

27. Oregon too according to a friend of mine who is a delegate.

[Gothmog]

13. I have not seen any TPP signs yet

Some bernie supporters are wearing "DNC leaks" shirts

[Grey Lemercier]

24. THAT has got to go!!! My anger with these spoilt priviledged brats

is reaching a crescendo. I will never forgive them for hectoring Elijah Cummings, John Lewis and other PoC.

[MADem]

15. Those stupid "signs" are folded pieces of paper--smaller than an auto map you get at the rentacar

desk.

How can they check without strip searching people? You could easily hide one in your drawers!

I am frankly sick and tired of these protesters. They had their floor vote, their boss moved to nominate Clinton by acclamation, and he asked them to be respectful and not boo. They obviously don't support him because they IGNORE him.


You can see the sign fold marks here, on a sign held by the biggest Hillary Hater that was in the hall:

[Maru Kitteh]

20. That Green vermin should be kicked out.

[Grey Lemercier]

25. perfect word! vermin. fucking Trump proxies

[merrily]

83. Is it really a perfect word for someone to your left? Or for any human simply

because of political belief?

You know what to do about vermin, right? Exterminate them.

[Grey Lemercier]

86. absolutely NOT convinced they are to my left

many are just white privileged and economically priviledged snivelling shits playing a temp game of "radical hipster"

[Bongo Prophet]

40. I disagree strongly with the disruptions, but please refrain from calling other humans "Vermin"

Not a good history regarding those who do that...

Regardless of the position on issues, or whether I agree or not, there is time for protests, and time to let others speak. In the convention, the party has the right to speak, and the other convention attendees have the right to hear them without rude shouting. Basic respect for others, as I am sure you agree. That they don't see that, tells a lot about them, I think.

In addition, this is history being recorded, and having repeated slogans, or that stupid whistling guy, are marring the historic artifact (in video form) - I don't think that disrespect for others is not progressive at all. They need to learn to build and work with others.

That said, to dehumanize them, or anyone, is beneath us as well.
"When they go low, we go high."

I hope all of us who will be celebrating can be strong and not let them spoil the moment for us.
All of us who are ready to carry her to the finish line, will be with each other in spirit.

I wish you many happy tears!

[Maru Kitteh]

48. Vermin are dirty, unwanted, unthinking creatures that frequently bring death with them.

I give no quarter to those.

They are NOT democrats, big or small. Coddling them has gone on way too long, and only results in greater and greater displays of selfish, hateful entitlement and unsatisfiable demands, and I'll not be censored or hushed in calling out their destructive garbage for exactly what it is.

I'm glad we seem to agree on the ends. As to the means, I find it odd - terribly odd - that you are more worried about my words on DU than the vile, even racist actions of the words and actions of those walking skid-marks in the Dem convention.

Shouting down John Lewis, repeatedly
Walking out on Mothers of the Movement?

Just no. I'll speak about them, and describe them as they are. Vermin.

[Bongo Prophet]

67. Dehumanizing even bitter enemies is not a good trend to follow, that's all. Barack and Hillary agree

Just think of what you are saying - "dirty, unwanted, unthinking creatures that frequently bring death with them." Sounds more like something Trump would say than our President, or soon-to-be Madam President, or indeed, most rational people.

I find it ironic that you find it "terribly odd" that I would, even gently, try to nudge you, who I consider an ally, to refrain from using a dehumanizing eliminationist term with distinct racist historical connections to the holocaust. (You do know that, right? I don't want to spell it out.)

And your reaction confuses me, to imply I care less about racist actions of those irritating protesters messing with history and acting like assholes, which I clearly stated I had no sympathy for those actions. Not sure why you thought the GWBush photo would help make your point, except you think they are all vermin, which we are already clear on that... It is just a bit too bizarre to me to figure out why you'd want to double down on that. I'm not wanting a fight. Especially with fellow dems. Why?

I am totally infected with the positive, inspirational rhetoric our convention themes of love and unity, president of ALL the people, uplifting talk. I get so high on that ideal that I thought I could safely go into GDP since almost a year, then unintentionally bump into situations like this. People in the midst of a battle, angry and ready to lash out in any direction. Classic saloon fight situation, and me, the stranger in town taps you on the should to bring down the vitriol because history, by Jove.. That was clearly my mistake.

So, sorry to interrupt. I went to fix dinner and watch the convention stream with no pundits or other distractions. Ms Prophet and I relaxed and allowed ourselves to be in the moment during this wonderful and historical night. Hillary was so brilliant, our coalition is broad and strong, and if there is any justice at all, we will forge a brighter future.

I thank you for the work you will be doing, and wish you best of luck on your path. Maybe we'll be friends later on, during the race or at least on Victory night!

Because we are stronger together, believe in Unity, that diversity is our strength and that love can conquer hate.
Thoughts to LIVE BY.

[grossproffit]

21. How childish. She's a jerk.

[redstatebluegirl]

28. Susan and the little minions in the green elf hats.

[grossproffit]

18. David Shuster is still bitter about being suspended. I can still hear the toilet flushing his career

down the toilet. Couldn't happen to a more deserving asshole.

[Maru Kitteh]

19. GOOD. Too many of those delegates have been acting like assholes and disruptive little shit-stains.

Let them work out their little fee-fees OUTSIDE the convention.

Shouting down John Lewis
Walking out on Mothers of the Movement?

Fuck them.

Disruptors should be kicked out.

[Avalux]

22. If Dems censor the delegates then we're no better than the GOP.

That's how I feel about it anyway. So what if they have a no TPP signs?

[geek tragedy]

30. I tend to agree as long as they don't massively disrespect the entire

party during Clinton's acceptance speech.

[ecstatic]

23. Good idea, except... why were they warned ahead of time?

They should have been stopped and kicked out upon arrival. Now they'll just leave their signs at the hotel and disrupt Hillary's big night.

[JaneyVee]

29. TPP is DOA. Let it go.

[David__77]

57. Maybe, maybe not.

I don't personally have a position on TPP. I can understand those opposed wanting to make as big a deal of it as possible, so that any moves toward implementation of a substantially similar agreement could be readily characterized as a major betrayal.

[helpisontheway]

31. Secret service should remove

Them if they start screaming during her historic speech. A few big mouth people could ruin it for everyone. I don't care if they want to sit there and look stupid with their signs. My problem is when they ruin it for everyone by screaming.

[Barack_America]

44. You're confused about what the Secret Service does.

You're thinking of the other "SS" in history.

[Lil Missy]

34. Good! They should be refused entrance too.

Only Democrats allowed.

[democrattotheend]

39. Many of those carrying "No TPP" signs are Democrats

Probably a good majority. Some of them might be my former coworkers at a big labor union. I doubt they are heckling anyone.

[Lil Missy]

41. They are Bernie supporters. There's a difference.

[democrattotheend]

42. My concern is that many are being punished for the bad behavior of a few

That all Bernie delegates are being decredentialed or moved to the back because of a few hecklers.

[Lil Missy]

66. well, that is unfortunate. but I know, we know, that is not true.

[David__77]

58. There are Democrats who voted for Sanders and are delegates who voted for him to be the nominee.

I have a friend who is one of them - I am proud of her!

[PoliticAverse]

35. Why wouldn't they allow in signs supporting Clinton's position? n/t

[Rex]

38. IKR!? Is this just a rumor or a fact?

I would think they would like signs that support the candidates position. Strange.

[Rex]

36. HRC is not supporting the TPP, so what is the beef with the signs?

[Warren DeMontague]

45. I suspect it is more that the signs are associated with some of the worst disruption we've seen this

week, particularly what happened to Elijah Cummings.

[Rex]

46. Well now it is about neon shirts, yawn.

This is like the Dean Scream X100; we get character assassinated in the beginning by the press (and operatives) and then things settle down because we are the only party that resembles law and order.

[Arugula Latte]

94. I'm betting she "evolves" on that the second she gets the chance.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. They need to be on board and not fuck this up.

The primaries are over.

[Doctor Jack]

47. My question is....

...if a few of these delegates are now supporting other parties, like the Greens, Libertarians, or even Trump, why are they being let in at all? Its the Democratic convention, not a public square. No one would think twice about banning a large group of Republicans that planned on coming into the convention just to be disruptful, why are we tolerating people that are more or less members of The Green Party?

[Maru Kitteh]

49. "Its the Democratic convention, not a public square." THANK YOU. The primaries are over.

BTW, I have a cat named Doctor Jack. True story.

[Doctor Jack]

51. Is he also mildly overweight with redish hair?

[Maru Kitteh]

62. He's skinny as a pipe cleaner wears a striped suit :p

But he checks your eyes, nose and mouth daily, and he's taken care of every sick critter and human we've had in this house. He's a good guy.

[Doctor Jack]

63. I made him this

[Maru Kitteh]

65. Oh my goodness! Thank you so much! I'm printing that out! Jack says

thank you too

[democrattotheend]

52. They were elected as delegates

They have the right to be there. If someone is being disruptive they can be ejected but I don't think they should be turned away and stripped of their credentials just because they come with a sign advancing a policy position that Hillary herself claims to support.

[Doctor Jack]

54. No, not for the signs

I couldn't care less what the signs say. But the people that are screaming, I think most people have reached their limit when them and they need to go.

I mostly just coopted your thread with something only marginally related.

[David__77]

59. How do you identify who is supporting a third party?

...

[Doctor Jack]

60. You can prove you are a clinton supporter. You can prove it

Listen to Jeb, he will tell you all about it

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

69. Well, if she looks like Jill Stein, and talks like Jill Stein, ... (nt)

[BainsBane]

70. Then the ones on my TPP must have been magically transported

Schuster has proven himself to be wrong time and time again.

[JCMach1]

71. There is a place to protest outside... what they are doing inside is solely disruption for the sake

of disruption...

It's not a revolution when all you are doing is pissing off your allies.

[Drunken Irishman]

80. Schuster lies again. There were plenty of No TPP signs last night.

I remember when Schuster was a semi-respected journalist. Wow. How the mighty have fallen.

[LAS14]

93. Regarding "knowability,"

it would be great if anyone who knows a Bernie delegate would ask them to visit this post when they've gotten home and de-compressed and just tell us whether they were allowed to bring in TPP signs.