The majority of voters in WA voted for Hillary and do NOT support a busters' walk-out tonight.

[pnwmom]

Last edited Thu Jul 28, 2016, 08:11 PM - Edit history (1)

It is particularly galling that the WA state busters would choose to grandstand in this way, when they know that they don't represent the will of the primary voters.

Here in WA, Bernie swept the low-participation, elitist, non-representative caucuses, and Hillary decisively won the primary, in which three times as many voters participated. Years ago our voters approved a referendum replacing the caucuses with the primary. But the party insisted on choosing all the delegates at caucuses, and they won the court fight.

This is the reality and Hillary supporters recognize the results of the caucus are the only results that count, so this isn't about fighting the primary.

But all those busters who are grandstanding tonight know that the majority of voters in our state voted FOR Hillary and do NOT support their action. And yet they are planning to take this very public action against the Democratic nominee.

(Note: I'm deliberately using the term busters to distinguish them from Bernie supporters in general, who are not joining in the walk-out.)

http://thetab.com/us/2016/07/28/bernie-sanders-delegates-will-walk-out-of-hillary-clintons-speech-tonight-42493

PHILADELPHIA –– Bernie Sanders delegates furious with Hillary Clinton’s nomination are planning to storm out of her speech tonight, The Tab has learned.

Chris, a delegate from Washington State, told us: “Half the Bernie delegates walked out on Tuesday and didn’t come back. Today the other half are walking out.

SNIP

One delegate we spoke to, Catherine from Michigan, told us she won’t be participating.

She said: “I have heard about these plans. Bernie Sanders endorsed Hillary Clinton and I support his endorsement, so I won’t be walking out.

“I’ve also heard outside agitators are trying to convince Bernie delegates to leave tonight.”

[liberalmuse]

1. Shoot, not my state.

I was at the Bernie caucuses and also voted for him in the primary. I do not support this and they do not represent me.

[still_one]

12. I think the OP took pains to point that out, that this was NOT directed at the vast majority of good

folks who supported Bernie.

In fact, if those folks do what is being suggested, they are actually insulting Bernie.

No sensible person would broad brush a whole movement based on the actions of some

[liberalmuse]

17. It's just disappointing.

I probably know some of those people. At least 90% of us are committed to vote for Hillary, so that's pretty good. I'm particularly upset at how rude some of the delegates have been.

[still_one]

19. I am from California, and wasn't too happy about the group from California that were

trying to interrupt some of yesterday's speeches.

I am focusing on the positives, and that means the issues Bernie brought to the table.

[scscholar]

2. And, I bet she really won by much more than the official numbers!

I live in King County, WA, and there's a nice ballot tracker to see if your vote was thrown away:

https://info.kingcounty.gov/elections/ballottracker.aspx

Mine was and the three friends I was with were too. We all four voted for Hillary. Also, we checked Bill Gates' vote, and either he didn't vote, or his vote was also thrown away. I've checked his vote every election for years, and I have never seen it counted. When a Billionaire can't fight the system, what hope do we have?

[Ghost Dog]

13. Why was your vote, and those of your friends, thrown away?

By whom?

[JoePhilly]

3. Don't let the door hit you.

[geek tragedy]

4. Sore loser crybabies nt

[David__77]

5. Clinton lost WA.

The rules are the rules. Clinton lost WA, and Sanders lost overall. I suppose one can complain about the rules or try to change them going forward.

[pnwmom]

10. The voters ALREADY voted for different rules. We strongly approved a referendum

replacing the caucuses with a primary. But the state party went to court to retain the caucuses and the voters lost.

Those busters know they are not representing the will of the majority of WA voters and they just don't care.

Hillary WON WA. Bernie only won the caucuses, but unfortunately only the caucus votes count.

[David__77]

11. She didn't win a majority of the delegation. That's what i meant by "lost."

Clinton won more votes in 2008 than Obama did nationally. She lost the nomination. Winning is in results.

[pnwmom]

21. She won the majority of primary votes in WA, and the voters wanted THOSE votes to count.

This is not analogous to the situation you're comparing it to. If the will of the voters here had been recognized, we would have ended caucuses long ago and all of our delegates would have been chosen based on primary results.

[David__77]

24. You're right that it's not analogous.

She didn't win the majority of the delegates.

[pnwmom]

25. Because our state party leaders chose to reject the will of the voters. Meanwhile, the Republicans

went along with the primary, so they were responsive.

[David__77]

28. I understand.

I imagine that parties will advocate for changes on a forward-going basis.

[pnwmom]

30. You might not be so complacent if you'd been here fighting for primaries for 30 years. n/t

[David__77]

32. Why do you think I'm complacent.

It's not my intention to invalidate your viewpoint or position. I live in California.

[UMTerp01]

6. Thats their right to do but here's my attitude

Bye Felicias.

[bluedye33139]

7. I was relieved after the ballot showed how much washingtonians love her

The caucuses were pretty frightening and ugly however. I'm not surprised a lot of people stayed away.

[still_one]

8. For those who are doing that I will NOT forget what they are doing. They are an insult to Bernie,

and an insult to the progressive movement, and to what they are saying to me, I will say the same thing back to them:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280104210

[chillfactor]

9. good.....walk you asshats....

don't let the door kick you in the ass....

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. No, we didn't. n/t

[pnwmom]

18. You know that we did. Three times as many people voted in the primary that Hillary won.

Bernie only won in the elitist, low participation caucuses.

[Barack_America]

23. Just can't let go of the primaries, can ya?

Wow.

[pnwmom]

34. The WA state delegation chosen by the unrepresentative caucuses is planning a walkout

that the majority of Democratic voters do not support. This is about the walk-out and about the caucus vs. primary system, not re-fighting the primary.

[Barack_America]

36. Dismissing the caucus is 100% re-fighting the primary.

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. I didn't vote in the primary because it was irrelevant. Still is. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

15. The WA system is rigged!

Caucuses suck (unless you win them, of course).

As an aside, I don't know if Obama would have won without caucuses in 2008. For all the bitching about the process, insurgents do get a boost from caucuses, delegate-wise, if they have intensity on their side.

Obama won the WA caucus but he also won the primary, albeit by a smaller margin. Bernie got thumped, but that hasn't resulted in any humility in that delegation. Humiliation is more like it.

[killbotfactory]

16. At this point the Bernie or busters are carrying water for straight up fascists

I took my seven year old daughter with me to caucus for Bernie in WA. She'll become a teenager under the next president. The idea that anyone who claims to be progressive is willing to risk a Trump presidency is baffling to me.

I guess the plan is:
1.) Throw endless amounts of shade at Democrats on social media.
2.) ???
3.) Revolution!!!

[ismnotwasm]

20. That's just embarrassing

Crap.

[MadBadger]

22. I'd rather them leave then embarrass everybody by booing or shouting things during her speech

[pnwmom]

26. They might be doing that, too. The article said that protesters would be doing different things.

[M_Demo_M]

29. As a WA voter, this saddens me

though it does not surprise me.

I voted for Hillary in the Primary and the Caucus.

However, the Caucus was a humiliating affair as a number of vocal and outspoken Bernie supporters (though certainly not all) were frankly rude and hostile to Hillary voters. Hillary supporters were largely outnumbered and it felt to me like we were treated as the "enemy".

When the primary results came in and Hillary won comfortably and with much HIGHER voter participation it solidified in my mind that it was time for Caucuses to go. Which is too bad as I enjoyed the discourse in previous election years when it was civil and respectful.

[LiberalFighter]

31. The key is to be in contact with your county party officers and organize precinct people.

[5thring]

33. Not to justify Bernie or Busters but the WA primary was not a valid measure

Last edited Fri Jul 29, 2016, 02:56 AM - Edit history (1)

The Washington state presidential primary was widely known basically as a beauty contest. It was confusing for everyone to have a caucus process where 3/4 of the attendees were Bernie supporters followed by a mail-in primary that was advertised as irrelevant. It is also hard to say how many of the primary votes came from disaffected Republicans as a protest vote against Trump since the state doesn't track party affiliations.

None-the-less Bernie or Busters have a right to be upset that our governmental, economic and political 'system' is rigged against them, much of it under the Democratic Party's watch. With a couple of days notice 10,000 people showed up in the rain in Spokane to hear and see Bernie Sanders. That says something big that the party can no longer ignore.

I disagree with Bernie-or-busters uncivility at times but they still do have a point. Many of them were/are in their first time involvement with politics and have no developed loyalty to the Democratic party. They've woken up to a political party that has generally been spineless and sold them out on so many levels to moneyed interests and influence peddlers. And of course the Republicans are much worse. (Read 'Listen, Liberal: Whatever Happened to the Party of the People' by Thomas Frank for a history of the party selling out.)

Time to move on. As Democrats lets invite Bernie supporters into the party and listen to their concerns and let their representation be felt. It will be a rough process for a while. Tempers need to cool on both sides. Lets stop dismissing each other and listen instead. Some self examination within the party is much needed. (Why have we lost the majority of white male blue collar voters? Why is the party leadership over-represented by older white educated people from the social professions? (Attorneys, teachers, social workers, feminists, social activists, LGBTQ, ministers etc.) Nothing against supporting and representing those groups but they are often rather clueless to the average working stiff's real concerns and issues.)

[Spazito]

35. Could you clarify this...

"It is also hard to say how many of the primary votes came from disaffected Republicans as a protest vote against Trump since the state doesn't track party affiliations."

Are you inferring repubs voted for Hillary in a protest vote or voted for Bernie as a protest vote?

[pnwmom]

38. It wasn't advertised as irrelevant. The super delegates told the voters that they would be watching

the primary results in deciding how to cast their votes.

And hundreds of thousands of Bernie voters -- many more than in the caucuses -- thought it was important to participate in the primary.

[chascarrillo]

39. Yes, it was irrelevant. Everyone knew the results didn't count. And SDs already made up their mind.

What you're saying here directly contradicts my experience. I never heard one SD say that they would base their vote on the meaningless primary. Not one. If you have a news story to contradict that, I'd be interested in knowing... but that still doesn't make the primary relevant.