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Sun Jul 31, 2016, 10:52 PM

They're going to try to de-legitimize the Electoral College next

Do I have proof? No.

Do they have any other options? Not really.

23 replies, 2159 views

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply They're going to try to de-legitimize the Electoral College next (Original post)
AwakeAtLast Jul 2016 OP
redstateblues Jul 2016 #1
montex Jul 2016 #2
floriduck Jul 2016 #3
Wounded Bear Jul 2016 #5
floriduck Jul 2016 #10
mvymvy Aug 2016 #13
MADem Aug 2016 #15
mvymvy Aug 2016 #11
lapfog_1 Jul 2016 #4
Wounded Bear Jul 2016 #6
lapfog_1 Jul 2016 #8
Wounded Bear Jul 2016 #9
MADem Aug 2016 #16
Ken Burch Jul 2016 #7
mvymvy Aug 2016 #12
Ken Burch Aug 2016 #14
John Poet Aug 2016 #17
brooklynite Aug 2016 #18
Kathy M Aug 2016 #19
Kathy M Aug 2016 #20
bettyellen Aug 2016 #22
NobodyHere Aug 2016 #21
Kathy M Aug 2016 #23

Response to AwakeAtLast (Original post)

Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:01 PM

1. I'd be all in for who gets the most votes.

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Response to AwakeAtLast (Original post)

Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:02 PM

2. Are you just making things up?

 

Yes.

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Response to AwakeAtLast (Original post)

Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:07 PM

3. I guess that would fall into the category of every vote counts. Tough to get states like NY, TX and

 

CA to want to buy into a popular vote. The heavy hitters like having their weight in the electoral college.

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Response to floriduck (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:24 PM

5. Just the opposite, actually...

the EC gives more weight to the smaller states. Wyoming for example has 3 votes. By population, it would be less than 1%.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:34 PM

10. That just means some states have greater population with fewer EC votes. Maybe NY, TX and CA?

 

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 01:41 PM

13. 24 of 27 smallest states are politically irrelevant

Support for a national popular vote is strong in every smallest state surveyed in recent polls among Republicans, Democrats, and Independent voters, as well as every demographic group

Among the 13 lowest population states, the National Popular Vote bill has passed in 9 state legislative chambers, and been enacted by 4 jurisdictions.

Now political clout comes from being among the handful of battleground states. 80% of states and voters are ignored by presidential campaign polling, organizing, ad spending, and visits. Their states’ votes were conceded months before by the minority parties in the states, taken for granted by the dominant party in the states, and ignored by all parties in presidential campaigns.

State winner-take-all laws negate any simplistic mathematical equations about the relative power of states based on their number of residents per electoral vote. Small state math means absolutely nothing to presidential campaign polling, organizing, ad spending, and visits, or to presidents once in office.

In the 25 smallest states in 2008, the Democratic and Republican popular vote was almost tied (9.9 million versus 9.8 million), as was the electoral vote (57 versus 58).

In 2012, 24 of the nation's 27 smallest states received no attention at all from presidential campaigns after the conventions. They were ignored despite their supposed numerical advantage in the Electoral College. In fact, the 8.6 million eligible voters in Ohio received more campaign ads and campaign visits from the major party campaigns than the 42 million eligible voters in those 27 smallest states combined.

The 12 smallest states are totally ignored in presidential elections. These states are not ignored because they are small, but because they are not closely divided “battleground” states.

Now with state-by-state winner-take-all laws (not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, but later enacted by 48 states), presidential elections ignore 12 of the 13 lowest population states (3-4 electoral votes), that are non-competitive in presidential elections. 6 regularly vote Republican (AK, ID, MT, WY, ND, and SD), and 6 regularly vote Democratic (RI, DE, HI, VT, ME, and DC) in presidential elections.

Similarly, the 25 smallest states have been almost equally noncompetitive. They voted Republican or Democratic 12-13 in 2008 and 2012.

Voters in states, of all sizes, that are reliably red or blue don't matter. Candidates ignore those states and the issues they care about most.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 02:52 PM

15. Wyoming...they gave us Dick Cheney! nt

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Response to floriduck (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 01:37 PM

11. New York and California have enacted the National Popular Vote bill

The National Popular Vote bill has been enacted by the District of Columbia (3), Hawaii (4), Illinois (19), New Jersey (14), Maryland (11), California (55), Massachusetts (10), New York (29), Vermont (3), Rhode Island (4), and Washington (13). These 11 jurisdictions have 165 electoral votes – 61% of the 270 necessary to bring the law into effect.

The bill has passed 34 state legislative chambers in 23 rural, small, medium, large, Democratic, Republican and purple states with 261 electoral votes, including one house in Arizona (11), Arkansas (6), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Nevada (6), New Mexico (5), North Carolina (15), and Oklahoma (7), and both houses in Colorado (9).

National Popular VOte

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Response to AwakeAtLast (Original post)

Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:08 PM

4. That's my theory too

They sent his son to Philadelphia MISSISSIPPI right after the convention. There is NO earthly reason to campaign in solid red Miss.

They want to get the KKK and the white supremacists in the south to not only vote... but keep others from voting at all. They want this to be an armed election with people intimidating likely Democratic voters. Most of all, they want the popular vote to be close enough. The electoral college is likely out of reach for Trump. But if he wins the most votes in the election (split 3 or 4 ways with Green and Libertarians), he will sue to be declared the winner.

Should the lawsuit end up in the Supreme Court... he is hoping for a 4 to 4 split, possibly leaving stand a lower court decision to declare him President. If that happens, expect violence like we have never seen before at protests around the country.

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:25 PM

6. No way. The Constitution is very clear and unambiguous...

The popular vote is not even mentioned with respect to the presidential election.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:27 PM

8. yeah, I thought Bush v. Gore was pretty clear too. - n/t

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #8)

Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:33 PM

9. Different situation entirely from the proposed scenario...

attempting to overturn an EC victory has no precedent. Gore won the popular vote, too. It has happened several times in history that the popular vote winner lost the EC. That's kind of why it is set up that way. The Founding Fathers were not truly democratic by nature.

If Trump can challenge a state vote count, maybe, but once the EC vote is determined, there is no way in law it can be challenged.

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 02:56 PM

16. Ronald Reagan did the same thing--the idea is to get out the RACIST vote.

That's what that appearance is all about--it's a dog whistle to supremacists and segregationists that The Con-ald is on their team.

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Response to AwakeAtLast (Original post)

Sun Jul 31, 2016, 11:27 PM

7. If it leads to the EC getting replaced by direct presidential elections, I can live with that.

 

There is no longer any good reason for small state voters to matter more than everyone else when it comes to picking the president.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 01:39 PM

12. We are already 61% of the way to every vote equal

By changing state winner-take-all laws (not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, but later enacted by 48 states), without changing anything in the Constitution, using the built-in method that the Constitution provides for states to make changes, the National Popular Vote bill is 61% of the way to guaranteeing the presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in the country.

Every vote, everywhere, would be politically relevant and equal in every presidential election. No more distorting and divisive red and blue state maps of pre-determined outcomes. There would no longer be a handful of 'battleground' states (where the two major political parties happen to have similar levels of support among voters) where voters and policies are more important than those of the voters in 38+ predictable states that have just been 'spectators' and ignored after the conventions.

The bill would take effect when enacted by states with a majority of the electoral votes—270 of 538.
All of the presidential electors from the enacting states will be supporters of the presidential candidate receiving the most popular votes in all 50 states (and DC)—thereby guaranteeing that candidate with an Electoral College majority.

The bill has passed 34 state legislative chambers in 23 rural, small, medium, large, red, blue, and purple states with 261 electoral votes. The bill has been enacted by 11 small, medium, and large jurisdictions with 165 electoral votes – 61% of the 270 necessary to go into effect.

National Popular Vote

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Response to mvymvy (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 01:41 PM

14. Thanks to the update on that. n/t.

 

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Response to AwakeAtLast (Original post)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 02:59 PM

17. Democrats fought against a Republican advantage for many years

 

in the electoral college. We suffered through that...


Now that the demographic advantage in the EC is ours, I think we should hang onto it.

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Response to AwakeAtLast (Original post)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 03:00 PM

18. That only works if they win the popular vote...no sign of that happening.

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Response to AwakeAtLast (Original post)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 03:07 PM

19. I have been thinking along the same lines

especially the way they( republicans) steam rolled their way through the primary , especially the way they handled delegates from each state . They do not play by the rules and take what they want . If they don't get what they want .... the blaming will begin .

They cannot do the same with E. C.

That discussion can be talked about another time , not while they are in the middle of process ....... rules are rules . In the meantime I am concerned of the divisiveness of the republican running for President and his group are and could do

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Response to AwakeAtLast (Original post)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 04:23 PM

20. It has started ..... Trump in Ohio today

"Donald Trump said he's afraid the general election in November will be rigged, but didn't elaborate on the comment at a rally in Ohio Monday afternoon."

"I could have a very nice life right now, I don't have to be with you people, ranting and raving," he said at the Greater Columbus Convention Center, after noting that "it takes guts" to run for president."

"While Trump may suspect some wrongdoing in the election, he sounded a more optimistic note about his own campaign, saying over 500,000 small donors had contributed $35.8 million in the last month, with an average donation of $69. "

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/national-international/Trump-Rally-Ohio-After-Weekend-of-Rebuke-388860682.html

For some reason the average donation DT stated sounds a little fishy ........ in my opinion . Do they list where donations are coming from ?

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Response to Kathy M (Reply #20)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 05:18 PM

22. The best lines he has he stole from Sanders.... The GOP ain't helping him, lol.

 

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Response to AwakeAtLast (Original post)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 04:26 PM

21. Is that a bad thing?

 

We would've had President Gore if it weren't for the electoral college.

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Response to NobodyHere (Reply #21)

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 07:07 PM

23. True ... I voted for Gore :)

I guess what irritates me is how DT tries to not play by the rules and whines when we are in the middle of existing process .

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