2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Vulgarian just said on MSNBC HRC failed the bar exam
he is jacked up today, crazy back on....fire marshall let all my people in..we won all the polls...now he is proud to call Arnold Palmer his friend..yeah, thanks MSNBC for needing to show us this crap.
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bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)She did fail the DC bar exam in the mid-1970's, but passed the Arkansas exam.
She admitted it in Living History. I don't see what that matters.
elleng
(130,872 posts)and take them again and pass, even in several jurisdictions. 'FAIL' sounds BAD, to the uninformed.
John F. Kennedy Jr., failed the NY bar exam twice before he passed on his third try.
anneboleyn
(5,611 posts)
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)Fuck that asshole.
My mother passed the Bar exam twice (in two states). I know what it entails and Drumpf doesn't have the intellect or the stamina to do it.
I'd bet all my money that Trump couldn't pass the Bar if he took it 20 times.
Bucky
(53,998 posts)(that's my prediction for his next tweet)
BlueMTexpat
(15,368 posts)who is not a lawyer - and many good lawyers have failed at least once. Interestingly, the Arkansas Bar exam, which she passed, is considered to be one of the most difficult, ranked number 2, after California.
Which States Have the Most Difficult Bar Exams? http://lawschool.about.com/od/barexam/fl/Which-States-Have-the-Most-Difficult-Bar-Exams.htm
Believe it or not, Arkansas comes in as the second most difficult bar exam in the country. (Although Hillary Clinton said it was easier than the Washington DC bar exam.) It is also a two day bar exam. The degree of difficulty could have something to do with more state and local laws being represented on the exam. In any case, it comes in at number two, so if you are planning on practicing law in Arkansas, make sure you take your bar exam studying seriously.
riversedge
(70,200 posts)
CBHagman
(16,984 posts)I've known at least a couple who had to retake their exams.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Meredith McIver approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]
rufus dog
(8,419 posts)Positive test!
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)for his head.
JHB
(37,158 posts)
tavernier
(12,382 posts)to pour salt in the wound, sister Caroline passed the first time.
Justice
(7,185 posts)He was in the same room as me.
BSdetect
(8,998 posts)Probably a doctorate.
Majored in Public Relations with an International minor.
Conferred to himself.
There must by an outsized painting of the ceremony.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)It's not meant to be easy to pass.
former9thward
(31,987 posts)I can only think of one state -- California -- where a majority of people taking the test fail. The reason for that is that CA -- and they should be ashamed of themselves -- allows people from non-accredited law schools to take the exam. Almost all of them fail. In other states a majority of people taking the test pass although a significant percent do fail.
Cicada
(4,533 posts)DC had recently changed its test to cover US law more generally instead of just D.C. law. Her instructor had failed to update his materials to include the multistage part. And our theory here in California is that even those not in fancy schools, such as I attended, should at least get a chance to prove that they can overcome the odds and learn the law at a high degree, if they want to give it a try. Most fail but I have met many great lawyers who made it the hard way.
former9thward
(31,987 posts)If that were true then she just would have taken it again.
CA is just trying to make money off of desperate people. Why are you trying to justify that??? If CA would not allow non-accredited students to take the test those schools would fold and would not exist to steal people's money who will never be able to practice. Instead CA wants the "free market" to decide who takes the test. They will be in debt forever with no real way of paying it back. A disgrace to the state and all who defend this practice.
Cicada
(4,533 posts)I think she took the D.C. exam while she had broken up with Bill briefly. But then they decided to be in Arkansas together.
Cicada
(4,533 posts)I assume they know the odds are stacked against them but want to take the chance. Why should you and I make that choice for them? Some people think a long shot is worth the likely loss. I oppose abortion but think I have no right to overrule the mother who has far more at stake than I do.similar logic to me. I guess I have some libertarian feelings. Not a lot, but some.
Jersey Devil
(9,874 posts)I know. I took the bar exam in 1971. Bar exams back then stressed local rules and procedures. If you went to school in Conn, like Hillary, you would not be taught DC rules and procedures.
Cicada
(4,533 posts)And I read that the exam she took was the second one in DC which had expanded the scope of the exam, covering areas her bar review instructor had failed to incorporate in his outdated materials.
Jersey Devil
(9,874 posts)I took the bar exam for NJ in 1971 when there was an over 60% failure rate for those taking it the first time. Those kind of numbers were also common in most states. Luckily I passed the first time but the reason for the high rate of failure can be explained. Those who took the exam in or near the states where they went to law school (I went to school in NY and took the NJ bar, where I lived) is that their schools taught local court procedure, which is part of the bar exam. If you went to school in Conn (like Hillary did) and took the test in DC where court procedure and practice is different, you would be at a disadvantage since you did not study the DC court rules and procedures. To remedy that most law grads take a local study course that includes procedures. Probably Hillary did not do that for DC and I would bet, however, that she did take such a course in Arkansas where she passed the first time.
Today the numbers are reversed and it is true that most peple pass, although there is still a high rate of failure. Part of the reason for that is that today there is a multi-state portion of the exam that, if passed, can lead to admittance to multiple jurisdictions. It is not all essay, as it was back in the 70s and easier to pass.
Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #20)
woolldog This message was self-deleted by its author.
Jersey Devil
(9,874 posts)Civil Procedure is part of any law school curriculum and schools teach procedure for the jurisdiction they are in, where most of there students come from and plan to practice. Is Yale different? Perhaps, but unless you really know you should try a bit of tact in your responses
Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #29)
woolldog This message was self-deleted by its author.
anneboleyn
(5,611 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)Skoods
(341 posts)I don't recall them forcing you to watch. Go on YouTube and watch Hillary rallies or something. Idk why some people subject themselves to trump when they don't have to.
canetoad
(17,152 posts)Knowing the Enemy.
Glimmer of Hope
(5,823 posts)
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)decided to move to Arkansas, she focused on studying for that bar and passed it the first time.
The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)
Rstrstx
(1,399 posts)Especially Monday night
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That is true.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)Justice
(7,185 posts)2008 Financial Crisis - most people struggled, many lost jobs and homes, life savings.
McCain - being a POW meant he was a loser to Trump.
Hillary - failing bar exam, having to retake it.
Ms Universe contestant gaining weight.
Rosie O'Donnell
How many setbacks or challenges by other people has Trump cited during his campaign as evidence of them being in his words "a loser"
Most people have defining moments in their life as to how they overcame adversity. When they speak of it, they speak of struggle as building character, their moral compass - it gave them empathy for others. It might have shaped their career path.
David Ortiz recently spoke about growing up so poor and in a bad neighborhood, worrying about getting shot. He said that playing baseball is a dream - and in high pressure game moments, he thinks of his childhood, where he had real struggles. Facing the Yankees is not life or death - his childhood was life or death. It defines Ortiz. Makes him the player he is. Real substance. Gravitas.
Think about Obama and his life story - and that story of losing his mother, his father - overcoming those challenges - how that defined him. Wise beyond his years. Maybe the reason he is so cool when others are flustered.
Would Trump ever acknowledge a setback or failure?
How did Trump overcome the setback or failure? How has it defined him?
Has Trump ever reflected on his life - in any way?
My mom always said that it is in tough times that we grow. We coast in the good times, but in the struggles, that is when we find out who we are, build our character.
Fundamentally - that is Trump's achilles heel. He talks about great success only - no challenges. No growth. When people say he acts like he is 8 - it is because he has not matured. No growth.
He thinks mocking other people's failures is a strategy. But really he makes them more human. It makes him less so.
BlueMTexpat
(15,368 posts)exceptional lawyers - can fail the bar exam in their first attempt. According to the link below, Hillary took the DC Bar and the Arkansas Bar exams at the same time. She failed the DC exam, but passed in Arkansas - which was a major factor in why she went to Arkansas with Bill. She might have had an entirely different career trajectory otherwise.
http://www.ibtimes.com/did-hillary-clinton-fail-bar-exam-truth-behind-donald-trumps-latest-criticism-2408562
The decision was more or less made for her. "On November 3, the District of Columbia Bar association notified Hillary that she had failed the bar exam," Bernstein wrote. "For the first time in her life she had flamed out — spectacularly, given the expectations of others for her, and even more so her own."
Bernstein elaborated on the significance of her failure in a CNN piece earlier this year. "She was heading to a big Washington law firm and wanted Bill to join her in the capital," he said. "She took the bar. She failed it. And then she decided, 'Okay. I'll go to Arkansas.'"
...
In any case, she's not alone. Other well-known people who failed the bar exam at least once include current First Lady Michelle Obama, John F. Kennedy, Jr. and former California Gov. Pete Wilson, according to BuzzFeed.
It's not that one fails. It's that one picks oneself up again, moves forward and succeeds. That is Hillary Clinton to a T.
I still wonder how Trump got ANY degree whatsoever, but he certainly does not have a law degree. He was apparently accepted to Wharton as a favor. http://www.thedp.com/article/2015/08/donald-trump-wharton-classmates
Another biographer, Gwenda Blair, wrote in 2001 that Trump was admitted to Wharton on a special favor from a “friendly” admissions officer. The officer had known Trump’s older brother, Freddy.
Trump’s classmates doubt that the real estate mogul was an academic powerhouse.
“He was not in any kind of leadership. I certainly doubt he was the smartest guy in the class,” said Steve Perelman, a 1968 Wharton classmate and a former Daily Pennsylvanian news editor.
Some classmates speculated that Trump skipped class, others that he commuted to New York on weekends.
“Four years — including lots of required classes — is a long time never to hear of a classmate, especially with such a distinctive name,” wrote 1968 Wharton graduate Larry Krohn, another one of Trump’s classmates, in an email.
In a manner hardly consistent with his outsized personality, college-aged Donald Trump was barely seen around campus on weekends, remained uninvolved in most campus activities and his picture was even absent from the yearbook. While there’s no lack of Trump hotels, casinos and golf courses, no building on Penn’s campus bears his name.
