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Mon Nov 7, 2016, 03:15 PM

We need a sane moderate conservative party. Seriously.

One that accepts science and objective reality and offers market based and conservative solutions to real problems. Say like Merkel's party in Germany or Sarcozy's in France. Those countries have far right parties as well. We have a non parlaimentary system which lends itself to two major parties. The GOP can either morph into reality based conservative party or a white nationalist one. I hope for the former but fear the latter. I wouldn't vote for either type of conservative but as it stands half our political parties (1 of 2) are insane.

Earned Income Tax Credit is the last real idea to fix a real problem I can remember the GOPers coming up with. What was that, like 40 years ago? Shit, Nixon was a left winger compaired to today's GOP. Shit even Reagan was a lefty compared to this bunch, or at least sane.

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Reply We need a sane moderate conservative party. Seriously. (Original post)
arely staircase Nov 2016 OP
Xipe Totec Nov 2016 #1
zipplewrath Nov 2016 #3
Xipe Totec Nov 2016 #7
whatthehey Nov 2016 #16
Xipe Totec Nov 2016 #18
whatthehey Nov 2016 #19
Xipe Totec Nov 2016 #20
whatthehey Nov 2016 #24
Jim Lane Nov 2016 #47
zipplewrath Nov 2016 #27
arely staircase Nov 2016 #4
stopbush Nov 2016 #12
Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #2
arely staircase Nov 2016 #5
madinmaryland Nov 2016 #37
arely staircase Nov 2016 #41
jberryhill Nov 2016 #11
arely staircase Nov 2016 #42
thesquanderer Nov 2016 #15
arely staircase Nov 2016 #22
Iggo Nov 2016 #25
inwiththenew Nov 2016 #28
arely staircase Nov 2016 #31
Paladin Nov 2016 #29
arely staircase Nov 2016 #33
Paladin Nov 2016 #36
JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2016 #30
arely staircase Nov 2016 #32
Rex Nov 2016 #34
arely staircase Nov 2016 #39
yawnmaster Nov 2016 #35
LAS14 Nov 2016 #38
arely staircase Nov 2016 #40
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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 03:19 PM

1. You're describing the Democratic Party. We need something to challenge it from the left. nt

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 03:22 PM

3. Rockefeller repulicans

I've said for some time we need the old Rockefeller republicans to go back the GOP so we can have a lucid debate in this country instead of a party of ideas, and a party of nut-jobs.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 03:28 PM

7. All they have to do is join the Democratic Party

Nothing wrong with it, but this is the centrist party; this is the Democratic Party you're describing.

We have lurched so far to the right, that the Democratic party has now occupied the place previously held by Rockefeller Republicans.

I'm not saying they're not the sane choice at this time. What I am saying is that there's a lot of space to the left of the current political spectrum.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 04:03 PM

16. There is? When only 11% think Obama, hardly the most liberal Dem, is too far to the right?

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Response to whatthehey (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 04:05 PM

18. Mmmm ah...

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 04:10 PM

19. On what grounds?

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Response to whatthehey (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 04:11 PM

20. You first. Support your position. nt

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 04:49 PM

24. OK. It's the average of the times the question has ben asked on this poll. Your turn.

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Response to whatthehey (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 09:43 PM

47. Here's a specific example: health care

 

According to this poll from last year, 55% of the electorate supports single-payer health care (Medicare for all). It's not a fringe position, it's a centrist position. Support for a public option is even higher.

A fair summary would be: A center-left party would support single payer. A sane center-right party would support retaining private, for-profit insurance companies as a major component of the system, but ameliorating the worst aspects of the free market with government intervention (Medicaid, insurance subsidies under the ACA, etc.) A right-wing nutjob party would want the government to withdraw completely so that it could cut taxes on the rich.

By that rubric, the Democratic Party is currently a center-right party and the Republicans are RWNJs.

If the Democrats moved to the left, they could hope to mobilize some of the people who would respond to that stance (some now not voting, some voting on the Gods-gays-and-guns issues because they don't perceive the Democratic Party as really fighting for the 99%). The party would thereby lose some of its more conservative members, who would become Republicans and work to restore the GOP to some semblance of sanity.

A similar case could be made on other issues, such as progressive taxation and the climate change crisis.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 05:10 PM

27. Oh, I agree

That's sorta my point. The democratic party is loaded at this point with everything from Abbey Hoffman to Ike. So we either argue with ourselves, or there is no debate at all. In order to have a political debate in this country we need the return to the days of the "loyal opposition" with sane folks willing to have a debate.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 03:24 PM

4. lol. nt

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 03:49 PM

12. Yep.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 03:20 PM

2. There are no sane conservatives.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 03:26 PM

5. There are in other countries and we used to have them here.

Hell Dick Nixon created the EPA.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 05:59 PM

37. He also signed the bill creating OSHA. Imagine a repubican doing something like

that today.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #37)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 07:47 PM

41. +1 nt

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 03:37 PM

11. Well, the word has been tainted, that's for sure


Nowadays, as most loudly used, the word is synonymous with "crackpot".

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #11)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 07:52 PM

42. yeah the conservatives made liberal a bad word in the 80s

now they have done the same for 'conservative'. and now liberal and progessive are respectable.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 03:57 PM

15. OTOH, if the Republican party got more sane and moderate...

...it might be more difficult for Dems to win.

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 04:28 PM

22. well sure

but I would rather be threatened by an occassional GHWB or Bob Dole than live with the possibility of ever having a Trump.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 04:53 PM

25. Talk to the Republicans. Tell them to get sane and moderate, pronto. (n/t)

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 05:15 PM

28. There will more than likely never be another Repulican president ever again

Maybe if a strong 3rd party from the left split the vote but that is doubtful. They're done at the National level. Demographics have cemented this.

They still strong at the state level though so they aren't gone totally.

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Response to inwiththenew (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 05:31 PM

31. I don't see how they elect another president in their current ideological form.

And I don't just mean the Trump/Breitbart faction.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 05:17 PM

29. Suits me. Let us know if one ever shows up. (nt)

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Response to Paladin (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 05:35 PM

33. Might not be in our lifetimes. nt

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #33)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 05:44 PM

36. I doubt it, as well.

Looking forward to the post-election autopsies of the republican party...what remains of it.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 05:30 PM

30. Sounds like a "Third Way". nt

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 05:34 PM

32. I doubt the right wing of the Democratic Party is sufficiently conservative

to meet the approval of even the least rw of GOP primary voters. Particularly social issues.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 05:36 PM

34. Maybe the Third Way, Libertarians and Greens can get together and form their own party.

 

They could take in all the moderate republicans that feel lost. The GOP is DONE, just splinter groups of people that hate each other.

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Response to Rex (Reply #34)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 07:41 PM

39. I don't see Humpty Dumpty being reasembled ever. nt

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 05:42 PM

35. As I see it, with an unstable GOP or a GOP that moves to the right, those who are conservative...

but can argue rationally, and there are plenty, believe it or not, may very well move to the Democratic party.
This will have the effect of pulling the party closer to the center, on average.
The party, I believe, is actually gaining diversity and has a wider range of voters, because many are coming from the near right.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 06:00 PM

38. I agree. All democracies need a SANE LOYAL opposition.

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #38)

Mon Nov 7, 2016, 07:44 PM

40. and that is my point. not that I would ever vote for even the sane, science accepting GOPers

It is simply that progressives can, if not find common grouns, at least debate the issues based on objective reality, which the current GOP rejects.

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