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Breaking News - Sanders now willing to work with TRUMP to raise the min. wage to 10.00 dollars (Original Post) otohara Nov 2016 OP
This is the kind of decision we will have to make. HassleCat Nov 2016 #1
We don't work with them period. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #66
It's just as wrong for Dems to refuse to work with Pubs as it was for them to refuse napi21 Nov 2016 #76
And the establishment of stupid political capital line too? lonestarnot Nov 2016 #83
We have a system now where only GOP types are allowed to govern. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #102
I don't care about congressional ratings. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #136
There's NO reason to make the gov't appear to be functional under GOP control. This... NurseJackie Nov 2016 #165
I uunderdstand that but I don't want another 4 years of doing absolutelyj NOTHING either. napi21 Nov 2016 #180
It's all about optics. If min wage is raised under a Repub president, that's how people will see it. BlueCaliDem Nov 2016 #302
Wrong. No point screwing min wage workers over principle hueymahl Nov 2016 #201
And that's how they win. Why give them the advantage? Why be lap dogs? NurseJackie Nov 2016 #206
Who are the "you guys" you keep referring to? hueymahl Nov 2016 #207
So, sometimes it's okay to stand on principle, and sometimes it's not. NurseJackie Nov 2016 #210
Well, you guys have it all wrong hueymahl Nov 2016 #211
But apparently you DO believe in giving the GOP a present of being FULLY in charge... NurseJackie Nov 2016 #212
I wish you would stop attacking me and listen to what I am saying hueymahl Nov 2016 #215
Tnhose who didn't vote for Clinton did that. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #289
There is no "you guys". We're all on the same side here. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #316
It is very strange to me...they refused to Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #260
They're not thinking clearly. They're blindly following Bernie's lead. They are guilty of ... NurseJackie Nov 2016 #273
Bernie has a fan club for whatever he proposes no mater what. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #290
Sounds like you agree that the only way government will be allowed to work is if the GOP is in TeamPooka Nov 2016 #244
So we should obstruct, even at the expense of the American people? Glassunion Nov 2016 #301
Thanks to Obama, we can hold out another 2 or 4 years. But we MUST take a stand now BlueCaliDem Nov 2016 #303
So we should obstruct regardless of those it helps or hurts? Glassunion Nov 2016 #304
Yes. This is an unusual presumptive PEOTUS, therefore nothing should be business as usual. BlueCaliDem Nov 2016 #314
Disagree. Lesson of GOP obstruction and lies is that it works. They get what they want. bench scientist Nov 2016 #205
Not any more. Now it's a long game. n/t LisaM Nov 2016 #230
The GOP has proven to the American people that political obstruction based on principle is a noble TeamPooka Nov 2016 #243
The corporate wing of the party goes bipartisan--just on all the wrong issues yurbud Nov 2016 #130
It was exactly wrong. our job is to stop the GOP from Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #133
"...you legitimize Trump by working with him..." workinclasszero Nov 2016 #144
While I do not agree with that, I would be impressed to see the Democrats do it. yurbud Nov 2016 #159
Thank you. A voice of reason among those driven insane by losing to the orange one. hueymahl Nov 2016 #204
it looks like they are taking steps in that direction--the question is whether symbolism will be yurbud Nov 2016 #312
Do not work with them...no surrender...no no and more no. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #229
consider the odds of Trump & GOP making ANY yurbud Nov 2016 #237
Did you know that Bush threatened to declare martial law if the Dems did not pass Tarp? Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #291
Do you have a link for that? Also, how did that prevent Obama from prosecuting Wall St? yurbud Nov 2016 #311
100%!!!! workinclasszero Nov 2016 #139
Exactly...only we succeed in making Trump a one term president...and Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #228
There is a correct answer. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #101
Bingo! TeamPooka Nov 2016 #245
We only give them cover. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #250
and then Trump comes out and says "I told you I was the only one who could fix this!" Fuck that shit TeamPooka Nov 2016 #251
this is ridiculous. Don't work with republicans if you have to give them more than you get. JCanete Nov 2016 #319
Bernie is putting out the challenge. Trump will deny he ever said anything about this. Buzz Clik Nov 2016 #2
It's good politics to push positive solutions for the people, failed politics to call him a traitor. TheBlackAdder Nov 2016 #175
No we have to play by their rules or we will never win. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #252
So, we devolve just like the Repugs--tit for tat, like an elementary school fight as people suffer. TheBlackAdder Nov 2016 #274
Trump will most likely try to do away w/ min wage completely. True_Blue Nov 2016 #307
But he couldn't give work with Hillary for 12 it had to be 15 or she was a boston bean Nov 2016 #3
It's stunning to see, isn't it? I know it's just a gambit for Bernie, but yeah... bettyellen Nov 2016 #6
You think we should admire this? Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #104
Nope, I meant stunning in the worst way. Strange times. bettyellen Nov 2016 #108
I agree with that completely. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #141
She wasn't president at the time ThirdEye Nov 2016 #9
And the goal posts start moving mcar Nov 2016 #25
Yup. LisaM Nov 2016 #30
Yup! sheshe2 Nov 2016 #52
What goal post? ThirdEye Nov 2016 #55
No he is not. He is capitulating, period. They all will. leftofcool Nov 2016 #67
and how do you know this? ThirdEye Nov 2016 #70
There are none so blind as those WhiteTara Nov 2016 #184
You could be referring to me, the others in this thread, or everyone... ThirdEye Nov 2016 #189
So you're for the 10 minimum wage? WhiteTara Nov 2016 #191
Nope ThirdEye Nov 2016 #192
Yes, you are correct. This election WhiteTara Nov 2016 #199
I can't relate to it but I can respect your point of view ThirdEye Nov 2016 #208
WhiteTara, this is an absolutely first rate post. LisaM Nov 2016 #234
I am going. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #261
I want to go. I found a hostel for WhiteTara Nov 2016 #275
What State are you in Tara? Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #292
I'm in Arkansas WhiteTara Nov 2016 #298
Ohio Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #310
What a wonderful post. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #263
I must disagree with you on one point here Bodhi BloodWave Nov 2016 #323
I see your point but you have to understand Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #325
i'll be honest Bodhi BloodWave Nov 2016 #330
If McCain or Romney had won, I would agree with you. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #332
No it doesn't. It means we lose. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #253
Same to you - how do you know he's just exposing Trump's lies? Lil Missy Nov 2016 #285
Because I have met the man ThirdEye Nov 2016 #300
Yep, it is capitulation. I would not have expected Bernie to be first in line Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #111
Me either workinclasszero Nov 2016 #178
Where is the liberal...fighter? Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #217
Well the cynic in me says the 15 dollars an hour workinclasszero Nov 2016 #221
You are probably right. It makes me sad for all those kids who had such faith Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #254
Is he talking about how corrupt the appointees are? The pay for play and bizarre bettyellen Nov 2016 #278
Bernie is willing to work with Trump. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #105
Bernie is a political genius... showing his true progressive leadership skills. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2016 #69
Really? Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #103
Schumer should kick Bernie out of committees?! Really? Dems would be wise to put Bernie in a leadership position. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2016 #106
He is in leadership. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #112
While I couldn't disagree with you more, I see where your coming from and respect your right to be wrong... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2016 #127
I hope Bernie fights Trump and stands with Democrats Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #140
Thanks for your kind words. No doubt we ALL have to unite in fighting that shit stain on our democracy tRump, the second coming of Hitler who threatens our very existence. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2016 #167
I completely agree. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #219
Why So He Can Call Dems Liberal Elites otohara Nov 2016 #231
Is he really...kick him out...honestly he will only cause more damage. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #255
The only thing that will lead to a 48 state loss hueymahl Nov 2016 #203
Working with Trump is the moderate path. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #216
There are places to fight him tooth and nail hueymahl Nov 2016 #227
No Republican will ever advance the progressive agenda when they have Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #256
Nope otohara Nov 2016 #12
And he got it from her as well... sfwriter Nov 2016 #14
He is so principled and can negotiate for something better. But hillary boston bean Nov 2016 #16
Isn't it amazing how 13 an hour was "selling out".... ehrnst Nov 2016 #213
Some Revolution otohara Nov 2016 #18
Yep. (nt) ehrnst Nov 2016 #214
Not gonna work though IMHO. LenaBaby61 Nov 2016 #32
STOP IT! Seriously FFS already. onecaliberal Nov 2016 #29
THIS Tarheel_Dem Nov 2016 #33
He was trying to win the nomination... TrekLuver Nov 2016 #35
Trump is about to appoint Jeff Sessions Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #110
What you are seeing here is how people overlook the racism... boston bean Nov 2016 #147
Thank you...they may not be racist but they cast a racist vote...anyone who voted for Trump. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #225
Oh I know it's shaping up to be a Rogues Gallery...I'm not surprised...this is TrekLuver Nov 2016 #149
We shouldn't help them. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #224
YES!!!!!!! workinclasszero Nov 2016 #146
Ye gods, that's what jumped out at me. 10 fu&cking dollars! Fla Dem Nov 2016 #150
wtf is this nonsense. Please tell me you didn't think this through. JCanete Nov 2016 #320
Trump called for eliminating the federal minimum wage. He also called for it to be raised. NCTraveler Nov 2016 #4
Of course, Hillary was excoriated for suggesting WhiteTara Nov 2016 #5
Ripped Her Apart - otohara Nov 2016 #8
Corporate wall street sellout whore was workinclasszero Nov 2016 #155
Well, white men are back in charge and WhiteTara Nov 2016 #182
"Well, white men are back in charge and...." workinclasszero Nov 2016 #183
except for that scream so WhiteTara Nov 2016 #185
Yeah..self portrait since Amerika voted Trump Fuhrer workinclasszero Nov 2016 #186
That's what I look like on WhiteTara Nov 2016 #188
Schwarzenegger was the Gropenfuhrer jmowreader Nov 2016 #336
Trump is going to abolish the minimum wage not raise it. leftofcool Nov 2016 #7
Hillary couldn't wait to "work with Republicans", and I well remember BlueProgressive Nov 2016 #11
Welcome to DU. guillaumeb Nov 2016 #27
Obama was faulted on this board mcar Nov 2016 #56
Different situations? guillaumeb Nov 2016 #177
Sorry, no cigar. leftofcool Nov 2016 #84
Well, you all should know. BlueProgressive Nov 2016 #93
Yes it is. It is working with the devil. Working with Trump gives him legitimacy Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #114
Wrong wrong and wrong Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #107
Trump isn't really a Republican. He uses their name, but he isa different monster altogether. AgadorSparticus Nov 2016 #179
Wasn't this the same guy who decried Hillary for considering an increase to 12? hrmjustin Nov 2016 #10
Nor me phallon Nov 2016 #13
Why? sfwriter Nov 2016 #15
That is a convenient excuse. hrmjustin Nov 2016 #17
This Must Be Part Of The Revolution otohara Nov 2016 #23
But it PE Clinton reached out to Rs mcar Nov 2016 #26
Word like "traitor", "sellout", "POSUCs" and "Republican"... greatauntoftriplets Nov 2016 #43
Oh yeah mcar Nov 2016 #47
Never. greatauntoftriplets Nov 2016 #59
"Corporatist!!11" mcar Nov 2016 #62
As much as I try to forget. greatauntoftriplets Nov 2016 #75
It is a traitors move in my opinion. He should not do it. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #115
and of course when she does that she is called a manipulative liar dsc Nov 2016 #187
Yes, one in the same. grossproffit Nov 2016 #20
Bernie is practical......this isn't a discussion between liberals virtualobserver Nov 2016 #31
That doesn't fly with me. hrmjustin Nov 2016 #37
He isn't abandoning those people currently working for 7 virtualobserver Nov 2016 #38
Gee, that was our argument for Hillary in the primary and we got called third way stooges. hrmjustin Nov 2016 #39
Look where it got her....small ideas create small enthusiasm virtualobserver Nov 2016 #45
Or is Sanders settling just for 10? hrmjustin Nov 2016 #74
He is boxing Trump in...Trump said that he would support a 10 minimum wage virtualobserver Nov 2016 #88
This is a win win for DPutin... he says yes, he wins .. he says no... he wins and no one cares uponit7771 Nov 2016 #294
Who was Hillary being "practical" against? Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #64
Her point was that not every area could afford a 15 minimum wage. I am not saying I agreed or... hrmjustin Nov 2016 #73
He should aim higher after Trump pulled his Ford stunt. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #85
There was consensus among a group of Dem senators from different states that 12 was doable bettyellen Nov 2016 #109
Always aim high in your negotiations.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #197
Always lie to the public? I've seen a few pundits reccomend that too. Lie to coal workers, to bettyellen Nov 2016 #200
Where did you get that from what I posted? Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #202
He is abandoning as he gives Trump legitimacy. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #119
You can't abandon the country for four years virtualobserver Nov 2016 #151
Yes you can, and you must Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #223
LOL, there is nothing about Bernie's platform that could ever be described as "pratical." MadBadger Nov 2016 #79
Really...well I am sure Trump who will be so accomodating. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #116
You want to win the midterms? Let Bernie do his work. virtualobserver Nov 2016 #153
Bullshit...Bernie will either be blamed and Democrats who he is associated with if Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #222
me either DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #89
Not here either. we can do it Nov 2016 #305
Within a week he's read to work w/ Trump, yet he couldn't afford Hillary the same courtesy. grossproffit Nov 2016 #19
What are you talking about? ThirdEye Nov 2016 #58
Perhaps you don't remember him saying athena Nov 2016 #68
Holding someone accountable is not the same as fighting with them. ThirdEye Nov 2016 #71
No he did not campaign for her vigorously. LisaM Nov 2016 #131
Thank you! If I never saw him again it would be too soon. grossproffit Nov 2016 #269
Yes that is it. It shows how indepenents are way more willing to work Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #117
But Trump says American workers are paid too much and that's why we can't compete Vinca Nov 2016 #21
No thanks Bernie, states are taking up the matter and going for the original 15!!! Pisces Nov 2016 #22
But Hillary saying 12 was a deal breaker? mcar Nov 2016 #24
I'm sick of Bernie theglammistress Nov 2016 #28
I'm sick of losing election cycle after election cycle. Cobalt Violet Nov 2016 #97
So he works with Triimp? Sorry, I think it is a terrible thing to do. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #120
Ditto. What are Democrats going to do to win back 64 Rust Belt electoral votes? SMC22307 Nov 2016 #240
I live in Ohio Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #118
I hope it's not against the rules to say that I don't trust either of them. n/t Tarheel_Dem Nov 2016 #34
You're Not Alone otohara Nov 2016 #41
Keep laughing... ThirdEye Nov 2016 #60
Plan On It - Ha, Ha, Ha otohara Nov 2016 #72
I voted for Hillary ThirdEye Nov 2016 #142
Wrong and more wrong. He is doing no good and should fight Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #121
Truthfully I'm pushing my opinion on his intent. ThirdEye Nov 2016 #143
There is no point...we will be screwed over and made to look bad or weak or both. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #226
Why shouldn't he work with this Trashpot to try to improve the lives of Americans? TrekLuver Nov 2016 #36
That's not our point Erin_Petrovna Nov 2016 #42
Yes and I addressed that by saying he was trying to win the nomination...that's why. TrekLuver Nov 2016 #44
I don't care if he was trying to be named Homecoming King Erin_Petrovna Nov 2016 #50
I'm a realist....get a grip this is politics !!!!! TrekLuver Nov 2016 #51
Plus 1! dae Nov 2016 #96
He shouldn't work with Trump because it legitmizes true evil. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #122
Right and if we do this, we legitimize his presidency...as we just elected Hitler II Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #233
K&R otohara Nov 2016 #40
K&R, I agree but not for the same reason. You blame Bernie dae Nov 2016 #99
I do blame Bernie Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #124
Sorry but we have elections here, not coronations. dae Nov 2016 #181
Well Trump is now the president...so pardon me if I don't shed a few tears Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #218
Believe what you will but just because you and others say dae Nov 2016 #318
Just because you say Bernie didn't cost Hillary the election doesn't make it true. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #326
Ego. fleabiscuit Nov 2016 #329
You are correct, it was Her turn. It doesn't matter how high dae Nov 2016 #335
Called it. The Bernie-bashing is going to hit primary levels again. VulgarPoet Nov 2016 #331
12 wasn't enough though right? rbrnmw Nov 2016 #46
12 wasn't enough mcar Nov 2016 #48
Not from a Democrat. sfwriter Nov 2016 #63
Exactly (n/t) Amaril Nov 2016 #172
Yup phallon Nov 2016 #276
Bernie will now work for Trump... OK... MyNameIsKhan Nov 2016 #49
That is what is happening, and he should not be allowed to do it from a Democratic Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #125
Do you want struggling Americans to have a higher minimum wage, or not? (n/t) SMC22307 Nov 2016 #242
No, I don't want shit the Gop is oferring...you can bet it will come with strings...and sneaky shit. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #293
I'd be more afraid that the GOP would try to end the minimum wage altogether. NT andym Nov 2016 #53
No way this doesn't Bern the Bro's. NCTraveler Nov 2016 #54
this Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #126
Wow Bobbie Jo Nov 2016 #57
The GOP wants the minimum wage to be 3.50 an hour. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2016 #61
Yep. And they control all three branches of government. SMC22307 Nov 2016 #82
Kicking otohara Nov 2016 #65
Say it ain't so ucrdem Nov 2016 #77
Everyone, please read the posts ... Sunny05 Nov 2016 #78
What do you expect a United States Senator to do? SMC22307 Nov 2016 #81
Weird how pragmatic, baby steps, practical progressivism is now bad. GreenPartyVoter Nov 2016 #95
LOL! No, practical baby step progressivism was bad when Hillary proposed anything realistic. R B Garr Nov 2016 #132
Its very obvious now right? workinclasszero Nov 2016 #157
It is totally obvious, but sadly actually expected. To think we spent R B Garr Nov 2016 #160
And where are all the "feel the bern" people now workinclasszero Nov 2016 #163
10 is a small piece of this puzzle ThirdEye Nov 2016 #193
And yet Hillary was called a Third way/wall street bankster whore workinclasszero Nov 2016 #194
Well those are your words, not mine ThirdEye Nov 2016 #198
LOL, no kidding. SMC22307 Nov 2016 #241
Anything that give legitmacy to the orange fascist is bad. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #288
I expect a US senator to fight for what is right. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #128
2020, eh? How are Dems going to win back the 64 electoral votes lost... SMC22307 Nov 2016 #239
Trump is a liar. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #249
Dems didn't go after the Bush Admin or Wall Street criminals. SMC22307 Nov 2016 #266
Trump doing the right thing? leftofcool Nov 2016 #262
Wonderful! SMC22307 Nov 2016 #80
Damn. I thought it would be safe to come back here, with the election over. mac56 Nov 2016 #86
. dae Nov 2016 #100
Thank you Bernie for bringing the action. aikoaiko Nov 2016 #87
I am not. It makes us look weak and divided. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #129
Should'nt we be starting the bid a little bit higher FrenchieCat Nov 2016 #90
Exactly. Bobbie Jo Nov 2016 #113
This is pure gold. Bookmarking. nt stevenleser Nov 2016 #91
Actually, here's Sanders' exact quote, not a CNN reporter's spin. SMC22307 Nov 2016 #92
Stop! Interjecting facts are not allowed in certain circles dae Nov 2016 #94
Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #98
Thank you. /nt think Nov 2016 #123
I wonder if he'll apologize to Hillary for excoriating her realistic 12/hr. R B Garr Nov 2016 #134
As long as you ignore Bernie's actual statement posted right above your outrage makes sense.... think Nov 2016 #135
Uh, yeah. I saw it. He wanted higher. No kidding! Who doesn't. R B Garr Nov 2016 #138
He's holding Trump to his words. He says he wants more but he nor Clinton aren't president are they? think Nov 2016 #152
Yep and had Bernie not run Clinton would be president elect. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #154
If it makes you feel better keep telling yourself that. Why did Debbie Wasserman Schultz resign? think Nov 2016 #156
We lost by less than 300,000 votes in three key states Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #220
I will agree that we are facing some very bad times. I wish you well. Take care.... think Nov 2016 #232
Thanks... you too. This is not really about Bernie...the damage is done Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #248
Bernie's not doing anything like that. Shame on you for suggesting such a thing. Bernie fights hard think Nov 2016 #257
By working with Trump and ignoring...the appointment of Sessions and wanting judges who will jail Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #283
And the damage done. Did you forget why DWS resigned? Wow.... think Nov 2016 #271
She won her election and was a convenient scapegoat. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #282
LOL, that's hilarious. The hypocrisy is astounding. He maligned Hillary for 12/hr, R B Garr Nov 2016 #158
"He talked about raising the minimum wage to 10, Sanders said. Thats not high enough for me," think Nov 2016 #161
Yes, reality only matters now that Sanders has to deal with it. R B Garr Nov 2016 #168
Bernie wanted to raise the minimum wage to 15 by 2020. That is unrealistic? think Nov 2016 #169
Oh, ffs. He said he was against incremental change, but that's because it was R B Garr Nov 2016 #171
"Heres a partial transcript from a speech Sanders delivered on Wednesday " think Nov 2016 #173
Quit spamming. It's obvious you are making excuses for Bernie backtracking on R B Garr Nov 2016 #174
"I wonder if he'll apologize to Hillary for excoriating her realistic 12/hr" workinclasszero Nov 2016 #170
10? WTF happened to 15? workinclasszero Nov 2016 #137
Great point about the Repubs taking credit for it! You are on to R B Garr Nov 2016 #145
Sure they obstruct and fight President Obama for 8 years straight workinclasszero Nov 2016 #148
Why is this breaking news? wisteria Nov 2016 #162
Blame game... LP2K12 Nov 2016 #164
Breaking News Uponthegears Nov 2016 #166
Good! We need to raise the minimum wage book_worm Nov 2016 #176
I guess 10 and hour is no longer selling out. It's "pragmatism." ehrnst Nov 2016 #190
FUCK!!!!!!! n/t cynatnite Nov 2016 #195
More BREAKING NEWS otohara Nov 2016 #196
Bernie HAD worked with Hillary. There's no betrayal or double standard here. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #209
Really Ken Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #235
OK. I thought it was a "Bernie is more willing to work with Trump than with HRC" argument. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #238
As a woman ken I am used to their being a double standard for women Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #246
He was JUST as willing to work with Hillary. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #247
Hillary is not Trump. Working with Hillary who is on your team good Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #258
Fine. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #259
I hope so...after this election; I take nothing at face value. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #284
He campaigned hard to elect Hillary. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #297
Berne fought hard against Hillary in the primary. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #309
It goes without saying that he fights the right. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #315
When? He has already offered to make nice with Trump. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #317
What the fuck ever Bernie. Maven Nov 2016 #236
Should we work to get minimum wages increased? think Nov 2016 #264
We shouldn't work to give Trump credibility. Maven Nov 2016 #265
Improved wages and (possible) jobs from... SMC22307 Nov 2016 #268
You're a fool if you think repukes in congress will pass those things Maven Nov 2016 #272
Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #280
Please read today's TPM about how Trump's infrastructure bill Maven Nov 2016 #286
That doesn't answer my question about what the Democratic Party... SMC22307 Nov 2016 #287
The one with full employement and a rising LFPR ?! REALLY?! We're swing RWTP's now?!?! uponit7771 Nov 2016 #296
Privatized roads and utilities would be very harmful to the working class. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #308
Yes. And for a massive infrastructure bill. (n/t) SMC22307 Nov 2016 #267
... to build toll roads and privatized utilities. ucrdem Nov 2016 #270
For privatized roads - NOPE. Fuck that. bettyellen Nov 2016 #277
no we should not work with the evil scum that is Trump...and privatization is not the liberal way. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #279
Bernie knows he's proposing privatizing the commons and says nothing? bettyellen Nov 2016 #306
NO. It won't happen and business as usual create a normalcy around Trump that must not happen. Demsrule86 Nov 2016 #281
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SANDERS SAID TEN IS NOT ENOUGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! uponit7771 Nov 2016 #295
Who's all for incrementalism now... GRRRRRRRRR JCMach1 Nov 2016 #299
We could have gotten more, if say, Bernie had won the nomination. JCanete Nov 2016 #321
what happened to 15/hr? wordpix Nov 2016 #313
BREAKING: Sanders Still Trying to Raise Minimum Wage Orsino Nov 2016 #322
Meh...Bernie is Mr. Irrelevant, especially now. nt LexVegas Nov 2016 #324
Having failed people of ALL races, genders, orientations, religions and races Uponthegears Nov 2016 #327
does this right before the nationwide Fight of 15 initiative this weekend? lunasun Nov 2016 #328
Great! Let's legitimize a hostile takeover by white nationalists! ecstatic Nov 2016 #333
"15 or nothing!" "How about 12?" "No!" "How about 10?" "Okay." tandem5 Nov 2016 #334
Let me get this straight jmowreader Nov 2016 #337
 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
1. This is the kind of decision we will have to make.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:40 PM
Nov 2016

Do we strive to get a few little crumbs, since the crumbs would feed a few people? Or do we forget about the crumbs and focus elsewhere? There is no correct answer, by the way.

napi21

(45,806 posts)
76. It's just as wrong for Dems to refuse to work with Pubs as it was for them to refuse
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:13 PM
Nov 2016

to work with us. THAT's the main reason congress has such a low rating. We have all wanting an raise in the m minimum wage but the Pubs refused to even consider it. I hate the idea that we are going to have a President Con, but I'm siding with Chuck Schumer on this. If there are things we can agree on, we're going to work with the Pubs to get things done. If they try to pass things we believer would hurt the American people, we'll fight them all the way. To maintain the do nothing attitude of the Pubs for the last 8 years, it's the American people.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
102. We have a system now where only GOP types are allowed to govern.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:35 AM
Nov 2016

They even stole one of our SCOTUS picks...that has to stop. Do not work with the GOP period. The GOP must be so obstructed that they never do what they did during Obama's administration again. President Clinton 'worked' with the GOP after 94. And I have heard that criticized over and over. What is it about us that we feel the need to work with these snakes...our only goal should be victory in the midterm and we need to make the GOP look very bad and give them no vote on issues like Social Security or Medicare...no compromise. If we work with them...they all do it will be the cry of the GOP operatives.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
136. I don't care about congressional ratings.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:50 AM
Nov 2016

This is not about wrong or right either...it is about supporting Trump and a party that wants to do truly evil stuff...giving them legitimacy. It should not happen...we should follow their example and stand strong and fight them every step of the way. No one will vote for a weak Democratic party. The GOP elected demanded that Obama work with them on social security. When he tried they ran ads in 10 saying he cut social security and never worked with him anyway. The GOP spent eight years stopping Obama surely we can manage two years without caving. Don't offer any more concessions Bernie or any Democrat.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
165. There's NO reason to make the gov't appear to be functional under GOP control. This...
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:34 AM
Nov 2016

... will just reinforce the myth that ONLY the GOP can make Washington work.

NO! Block them at every turn. Give them NOTHING!

The suffering that's to come is already going to happen. Why make it last LONGER?

Let the GOP squeal like stuck pigs when the Dems block everything.

Fuck them!

napi21

(45,806 posts)
180. I uunderdstand that but I don't want another 4 years of doing absolutelyj NOTHING either.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:45 PM
Nov 2016

I want Schumer toobeat the Pubs like Te




I want Schumer to9 beat the hell out of the Pubs like Teddy Kennedy did when they try to push their greedy, all for the rich ideas forward, I want him to smash them like a bug, but if we can get SOMETHING done for the good of the Country they should do that too.

















d

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
302. It's all about optics. If min wage is raised under a Repub president, that's how people will see it.
Sun Nov 20, 2016, 03:38 PM
Nov 2016

That's a BAD message to send - bad for the Democratic Party.

NO concessions. NO compromising. Turn Mitch McConnell's oath against him in these 2 to 4 years.

Obstruct! Obstruct! Obstruct!

Hey, it worked for Republicans! They've all but eviscerated us across the country. Apparently, this is what the American people want. I say, give it to them.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
206. And that's how they win. Why give them the advantage? Why be lap dogs?
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:50 PM
Nov 2016

Isn't fighting them at every turn and opposing their every move the same type of take-a-stand philosophy as the "Never Hillary" people had? You know, the one that was so admired and defended around here?

Why is it okay to write-in Bernie or to be "Never Hillary" and have it defended as being a "voter with principles" ... yet when this philosophy ends up putting the GOOP in power, why now is standing firm against giving the GOP any thing to claim as their own is suddenly considered to be "unprogressive" and something to be frowned upon or scolded.

Why is one okay, but the other not? Especially odd when you consider that when 'one' CREATED the 'other' in the first place.

You guys are hard to figure out sometime. Black is white and up is down. Good is bad and strong is weak.

Make up your minds already.

hueymahl

(2,401 posts)
207. Who are the "you guys" you keep referring to?
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:56 PM
Nov 2016

I voted for, campaigned for and donated to HRC. I entered the election night with both a feeling of hope and a hidden feeling of dread. She would have made a fantastic, incredible president.

But she was CRAP as a candidate.

So, quit trying to lump me in with some nefarious group that somehow caused her to lose.

We need progressive policies passed. If Trump will pass a progressive policy, we should support that. Just as we should fight against every possible non-progressive policy we can. Otherwise, we are harming real people in an attempt at "justice" or "payback" or some other self-centered bull shit.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
210. So, sometimes it's okay to stand on principle, and sometimes it's not.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:16 PM
Nov 2016

She was a wonderful candidate. She was brilliant and inspiring. You guys need to stop trying to rewrite history.

Who are the "you guys" you keep referring to?
I think you're smart enough to know the answer to that. And I'm smart enough to know that I don't need to spell it out and spoon-feed it to you.

We need to give Trump and his cronies NO VICTORIES, of ANY KIND. Nothing they can point to as any sort of "accomplishment" ... nothing they can use as leverage in getting something passed that causes exponentially more HARM than the little good that may come about from a "progressive policy".

FREEZE THEM IN THEIR TRACKS! They get NOTHING! Any success will be used in future elections. They'll gleefully declare "see? we Republicans can get things done!" as justification for electing MORE Republicans and KEEPING them in power.

But what it really means is that a spineless and compliant House and Senate just sat on their thumbs... you want the Democrats to become "Rick Grimes" to Trump's "Negan".

No, this isn't "self-centered" bull shit. This is long-term thinking.

You guys should know that, right? Y'all know what that's all about.. I mean you should. And if you really don't, I'll be surprised beyond belief.

hueymahl

(2,401 posts)
211. Well, you guys have it all wrong
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:27 PM
Nov 2016

I believe in not condemning millions of low wage families to four years of suffering. I believe in showing how progressive policies make us better. I believe in a thousand incremental improvements are better than standing on principal and failing, again and again and again.

You guys apparently believe in vengeance over compassion, principle over progression, power over people.

We could not hold more different views and still both be liberals.

Very interesting. Us vs. them. Even when we are on the same side.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
212. But apparently you DO believe in giving the GOP a present of being FULLY in charge...
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:37 PM
Nov 2016

... for the next 8-12 years.

Why have a party at all if we're just going to let them walk all over us?

You guys apparently believe in vengeance over compassion, principle over progression, power over people.
I believe that short term gains at the expense of long term losses and setbacks is a difficult decision to make. Some people make the easy choices because they "seem" logical and they get the "feel good tingle" right away. Others are more pragmatic.

You can be a timid, broken, frightened and kowtowing Rick Grimes if you want. I'm gonna be Carol or Michonne and encourage everyone I know to be the same. We're screwed either way.

We could not hold more different views and still both be liberals.
So now you're calling me a conservative? Nice! So cleverly worded that no peer review would ever hold that to count, but I understand exactly what you're saying and how you're trying to insult me.

hueymahl

(2,401 posts)
215. I wish you would stop attacking me and listen to what I am saying
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:47 PM
Nov 2016

I am not calling you a conservative, not even close. I am suggesting that the scorched earth approach you are advocating is dead wrong.

Our positions, liberal, progressive positions, need to be advocated with a vengeance. But if we can advance our positions in any meaningful way, that is good for the liberal cause, never bad for it.

I am attacking the DNC and its leadership. They need to do some serious soul searching. Blaming Comey, the weather, the moon, Brietbart, etc. does not do anything.

To be clear, I am not trying to insult you. But I am trying to change your mind and your point of view.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
289. Tnhose who didn't vote for Clinton did that.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:52 PM
Nov 2016

And working with the Orange Hilter who will do nothing to help anyone is a bad idea...fight him at every turn...he picked a cabinet we simply can not work with.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
316. There is no "you guys". We're all on the same side here.
Mon Nov 21, 2016, 04:33 PM
Nov 2016

And there is no large group of voters that will switch to us if only the left is kicked out again like it was in the Nineties.

Agreed that Trump should get no victories. It's the right wing of the party you'll have to persuade on that, though-the wing that gave Dubya everything he wanted from 2001 to 2007.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
260. It is very strange to me...they refused to
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:44 AM
Nov 2016

back moderate Hillary (called her a corporatist and a liar), yet they support a guy who is appointing an unrepentant segregationist who was too racist for even Reagan as AG and a nut case for NSA...I don't get it.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
273. They're not thinking clearly. They're blindly following Bernie's lead. They are guilty of ...
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 07:22 AM
Nov 2016

... "normalizing" the GOP by submitting to their obstructionists tactics.

It's disgusting.

PS: Any $10 "minimum wage" bill that has GOP hands on it will certainly be tied to other concessions... it won't be a CLEAN bill. The wage amount will be conditional, limited to certain jobs or certain regions, it will have "trigger" events or "trigger" dates, and it will phased-in and ramped-up over the course of ten years.

What Bernie supporters imagine happening is pure fantasy.

TeamPooka

(24,123 posts)
244. Sounds like you agree that the only way government will be allowed to work is if the GOP is in
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:03 AM
Nov 2016

control

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
301. So we should obstruct, even at the expense of the American people?
Sun Nov 20, 2016, 03:23 PM
Nov 2016

I thought that's what Republicans did.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
303. Thanks to Obama, we can hold out another 2 or 4 years. But we MUST take a stand now
Sun Nov 20, 2016, 03:41 PM
Nov 2016

and the last thing we need to do is give the appearance that shit gets done under a Repub Pres and Repub-controlled Congress.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
304. So we should obstruct regardless of those it helps or hurts?
Sun Nov 20, 2016, 04:20 PM
Nov 2016

No... the Republicans would bite their own nose to spite their face.

If there is a bill up, and it does good for America, I expect my Rep to vote for it. If it does harm, they should fight tooth and nail.

Obstructing for the sake of obstruction is bullshit IMO. If there is a bill to bring up the minimum wage, I expect my Rep to vote for it. Otherwise you may as well find a hard working family, who are below the poverty line in spite of working full time, knock on their door and yell "Fuck you for the next four years, we'll be back when election outcomes may work in your favor."

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
314. Yes. This is an unusual presumptive PEOTUS, therefore nothing should be business as usual.
Mon Nov 21, 2016, 11:55 AM
Nov 2016
Republicans have NOT paid a price even though their obstructionism hasn't helped a single soul. In fact, they've been rewarded in a year when WE should've gained more seats in the Senate and kept the White House.

This is war. You don't bring a daisy to a gunfight with the credo, "Can't we all just try to get along? Please?"

And it's not obstructing for the sake of obstruction. It's obstructing for the survival of the Democratic Party for 2018. The American people don't reward weak-spined people even when they ultimately benefit from it. This past election made that very clear.

For all the good President Obama has worked so hard for, people (who weren't disenfranchised) cast their vote for a Republican blowhard and the same Republicans they SAID they were tired of. Instead, the blamed President Obama for all the ills that are a direct result of unprecedented Republican obstructionism. NO BLAME went to Republicans. This is how people see our Gov't, as uninformed as they are.

So we return the favor or *Trump will get the credit and that would be a death knell for the Democratic Party in 2018 and 2020.

No more business as usual. Fuck that. And you know what? I also HOPE Lyin'Ryan successfully gets his bills through to privatize Social Security and voucherize Medicare without Dem interference. Elections have consequences and it's high time those idiots who constantly vote against their financial interests are made to understand that.

bench scientist

(1,107 posts)
205. Disagree. Lesson of GOP obstruction and lies is that it works. They get what they want.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:49 PM
Nov 2016

We give them NOTHING. Nothing, and nothing is far far better than anything the GOP will do.

TeamPooka

(24,123 posts)
243. The GOP has proven to the American people that political obstruction based on principle is a noble
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:01 AM
Nov 2016

cause and position to hold.
Democrats need to obstruct everything and explain why as they do it.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
130. The corporate wing of the party goes bipartisan--just on all the wrong issues
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:27 AM
Nov 2016

starting wars, trade deals, Wall Street bailouts.

Bernie's statement after the election was exactly right: on issues when you want to pass progressive policy, we will work with you.

On issues where you want to do the opposite, we will fight you.

That should have been the Democratic position for decades.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
133. It was exactly wrong. our job is to stop the GOP from
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:44 AM
Nov 2016

unleashing hell on earth by winning the midterms...you legitimize Trump by working with him...the GOP did nothing to work with Obama...they need to get the same treatment, or we are weak and foolish.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
144. "...you legitimize Trump by working with him..."
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:56 AM
Nov 2016

And the democrats are all lining up to do that very thing already!

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
159. While I do not agree with that, I would be impressed to see the Democrats do it.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:23 AM
Nov 2016

They have had trouble staying on the same page even when it hurt Obama's foreign and domestic policy initiatives, or even Hillary's election chances, like Chuck Schumer saying they could do a corporate tax cut after the election just two weeks before, which minimized the difference between the two parties, which doesn't exactly help people get excited about voting for Democrats.

hueymahl

(2,401 posts)
204. Thank you. A voice of reason among those driven insane by losing to the orange one.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:47 PM
Nov 2016

The DNC leadership got us in this mess. We need new leadership, asap. True democrats should be emulating Bernie, not disparaging him.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
312. it looks like they are taking steps in that direction--the question is whether symbolism will be
Mon Nov 21, 2016, 11:42 AM
Nov 2016

followed by action.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
229. Do not work with them...no surrender...no no and more no.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:11 PM
Nov 2016

No we never work with them...it would like working with Hitler. Bernie needs to stop now.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
237. consider the odds of Trump & GOP making ANY
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 07:22 PM
Nov 2016

Progressive proposals.

Their minimum wage proposal is to eliminate it.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
311. Do you have a link for that? Also, how did that prevent Obama from prosecuting Wall St?
Mon Nov 21, 2016, 11:41 AM
Nov 2016

or modifying the terms of the second half of TARP?

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
139. 100%!!!!
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:54 AM
Nov 2016

We work with those CS the same way they worked with President Obama the last eight years!!!

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
228. Exactly...only we succeed in making Trump a one term president...and
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:09 PM
Nov 2016

if we get the Senate back no judges for them...we will let the voters decide.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
101. There is a correct answer.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:29 AM
Nov 2016

Don't work with the Republicans period...no good ever comes from it. Bernie should not do this.

TeamPooka

(24,123 posts)
251. and then Trump comes out and says "I told you I was the only one who could fix this!" Fuck that shit
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:25 AM
Nov 2016
 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
319. this is ridiculous. Don't work with republicans if you have to give them more than you get.
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 02:44 AM
Nov 2016

but without strings attached if a republican wants to do a good thing, let them fucking do it. First of all, how likely do you think it is this will even happen. Second of all, if it does republicans have to suddenly defend this sort of legislation. It becomes part of the republican record, and that is not a bad thing. If they distance themselves from it in the future they have to risk alienating people they courted with it.

It is simply irresponsible to try to block all things. Yes the republicans do it, and the American people suffer from it. Besides, thinking that you can play the same game as Republicans though is fundamentally misunderstanding how our media works. It would be brutal on the Dems in a way it never was on the Pubs.
 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
2. Bernie is putting out the challenge. Trump will deny he ever said anything about this.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:41 PM
Nov 2016

Anyone who put faith in Trump is going to be sorely disappointed.

TheBlackAdder

(28,027 posts)
175. It's good politics to push positive solutions for the people, failed politics to call him a traitor.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:11 PM
Nov 2016

.


Some people need to realize that this is a four year involvement and, if the net benefit is a positive for Democratic Party values, they should be pursued, regardless of who is president.


Some people need to detach from the election and the rigidness of thought/vindictiveness that permeates Republicans.


We are better than that! Fight on the issues that compromise our values, support things that benefit them.


===


Trump will try to distance himself from many positions, as he is reversing course on so many promises.

His base is too stupid to realize that, even if he is challenged and agrees to past promises.


.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
252. No we have to play by their rules or we will never win.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:28 AM
Nov 2016

Being better means shit if we never get a chance to govern...and Obama was given no chance. Thus they get the same treatment and maybe next time we are in power they will consider if they want to govern ever ... maybe they should stand down...or not...either way, they don't get to put shitty GOP policy into law and claim it was bipartisan because we fight them...and that would include stripping any Dem who does not fight of any yummy congressional goodies...we play hardball. It is the only chance we have.

TheBlackAdder

(28,027 posts)
274. So, we devolve just like the Repugs--tit for tat, like an elementary school fight as people suffer.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 10:54 AM
Nov 2016

.

Even the Republicans allowed certain things to pass. They weren't 100% asshole, but we should be.

So we become them, act like spiteful children just because they did the same thing.


If a law or act is beneficial, that should be immaterial.

.

boston bean

(36,181 posts)
3. But he couldn't give work with Hillary for 12 it had to be 15 or she was a
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:45 PM
Nov 2016

corrupt, establishment politician working against working class people.

MY GOD!

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
6. It's stunning to see, isn't it? I know it's just a gambit for Bernie, but yeah...
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:48 PM
Nov 2016

Hope this puts shit in perspective for everyone.

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
9. She wasn't president at the time
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:52 PM
Nov 2016

Give me a break. This is Bernie try to work with Trump after the election. In reality, he's probably trying to simply expose how Trump was full shit.

mcar

(42,179 posts)
25. And the goal posts start moving
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 06:41 PM
Nov 2016

We've had 2 days of non stop criticism of Hillary's campaign but still, whatever Sanders does is pure as the driven snow.

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
55. What goal post?
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:55 PM
Nov 2016

If by goal post you mean "election night" then yes, the goal post has been moved. Otherwise, what do you mean goal post?

Ok, if Sanders threatened Hillary that he'd refuse to work with her on $12 if she won (not simply not support her in the GE), I see your point. I'll assume that's your point.

But don't you think Sanders is just trying to expose Trump?

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
70. and how do you know this?
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:18 PM
Nov 2016

Do you know the man personally?

and if they all will - doesn't that speak to something greater than Sanders?

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
189. You could be referring to me, the others in this thread, or everyone...
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:53 PM
Nov 2016

... and you'd probably be right in all cases.

d'oh!

Actually, that's one reason I'm telling friends in family: don't waste energy engaging with Trump voters, spend that energy engaging with people who didn't vote for Trump or Clinton, especially those who just didn't vote. Trump voters will never change their mind or admit their president is flawed.

WhiteTara

(29,670 posts)
191. So you're for the 10 minimum wage?
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:59 PM
Nov 2016

That's what your hero is trying to jam down the throats of those that supported him when he said $15 only and Hillary is a stooge for mentioning that $12 was a passable wage. But instead the bright shining hero of the the alt left has hung us all out to dry as he says he will enthusiastically work with Drumpf. Blind indeed.

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
192. Nope
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 02:45 PM
Nov 2016

I don't specifically support $10/hr for the minimum wage. I do support $15/hr. More than that, I support tracking the minimum wage with some other indicator so we can pull away form having to debate raising it. Something like GDP or inflation.

Having lived in Vermont for decades, having been represented by Bernie for decades in various capacities, having met him myself, having close friends who are personally close to him, I'm compelled to give him the benefit of the doubt on his approach.

If it ends up being truly as you say, then it's terrible.

Keep in mind, among your strong words is really negative rhetoric that, to me at least, only emphasizes how much the recent loss has hurt you personally. Calling me blind, saying he's enthusiastically working from trump, throwing out the term "alt left" as if that's even well defined. Seems to me you have an opinion about Bernie, you arrived at it a long time ago, and you wish to keep it that way.

WhiteTara

(29,670 posts)
199. Yes, you are correct. This election
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:09 PM
Nov 2016

did wound me and although I am working to not be negative; I find it very difficult to let this pass as water over a duck. While Bernie may prove to be a savior of the world, he did say that he would enthusiastically work with Trump for his (Bernie's) goals and in the next breath capitulates on the $15.00 minimum wage...never mind his excoriation of Hillary's $12. proposal.

I have to say that my faith in men has been shattered during this election season. Where is Bernie demanding Trump's tax returns before he takes office...oh, he probably won't as that would bring up HIS refusal to submit his tax returns, right before he bought his 3rd house. Just little things like that make my hair stand on end with the horror of the knowledge that women will, for the foreseeable future once again be relegated to the back seat and the dust bin of history. Hillary was given impossible standards that Bernie is now ignoring for Trump. White men backing white men is what it appears on the surface; but maybe there is 20 dimensional chess going on and Bernie will save us all.

But let's all sing kumbaijah and have a jolly good time watching every advance we (as women and society) have made be reversed. As a white man, your privilege is secure; but I hope you'll join us on the 21st in the march for women in DC.

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
208. I can't relate to it but I can respect your point of view
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:02 PM
Nov 2016

Because you're right, I am a white male. I also have a well paying job that will not go away due to a Trump presidency. I am, however, married to a someone who isn't an American citizen. So there is some fear, but I will never claim to understand or relate to the plight of those truly affected. Seriously, I was ill for days after the election and then I realized: holy shit, this won't even directly affect me and I'm scared shitless, think of the people this directly affects (a.k.a. almost everyone else). It was a humbling moment.

I can't argue against your point about the tax returns. You're probably right. I would emphasize that Bernie is far from wealthy. True story, he inconvenienced me on a road here in Vermont once by driving super slow in a banged up Saturn, preventing me from turning on to a road. It was a bit of an LOL moment when I passed him a few minutes later and saw it was a US Senator. That was only 3 or 4 years ago.

I agree, there's no kumbaijah. My faith in Americans, specifically white men, was shattered as well. Frankly, I didn't have much faith in them to begin with. Edit: I should say no kumbaijah as in I'd rather us fight back with a hardline against them, I do not like Bernie approach here myself.

I will honestly look into that march you reference. I have friend near DC that I will also talk to.

LisaM

(27,748 posts)
234. WhiteTara, this is an absolutely first rate post.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:18 PM
Nov 2016

I could cry. You summed it all up so beautifully.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
261. I am going.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:46 AM
Nov 2016

Hubs says no...but I am going. He will have to deal with it. (He fears for my safety with a fascist about to inaugurated).

WhiteTara

(29,670 posts)
275. I want to go. I found a hostel for
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 11:52 AM
Nov 2016

$80 a night for a 4 share room, but still no transportation. My physical limitation is that I have a damaged spine and can't walk for long periods of time nor stand indefinitely. I could try and find a wheel chair when I get there, but it all sounds so hard and right now I really hurt.

I went to DC so often during the *co 8 years, but time passes and I think I may be too old this time. THis is a torch that must be passed to younger women everywhere.

Thank you for going. Take a step for me!

WhiteTara

(29,670 posts)
298. I'm in Arkansas
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 08:36 PM
Nov 2016

Where are you and the wheelchair? Sorry about your daughter's broken ankles. That must have been terrible.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
310. Ohio
Mon Nov 21, 2016, 09:47 AM
Nov 2016

She has surgery and is walking but I saved the wheelchair because you never know...the lousy hospital sent her home with crutches!! Like to broken ankles and you can use crutches...she was not supposed to put any weight on the ankle.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
263. What a wonderful post.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:48 AM
Nov 2016

I feel exactly as you do...I really feel betrayed by those men (women too but I have not heard anything about that yet) including Bernie who are willing to work with Trump who is evil and a threat to everything I value.

Bodhi BloodWave

(2,346 posts)
323. I must disagree with you on one point here
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 10:08 AM
Nov 2016

If i understand your mindset correctly so far in this thread then you believe that you all(using 'you all' since i am a Norwegian thus can't really say we) should oppose any and all things from trump/the reps since they are pure evil and a threat to what you value.

I just can't agree with that for the simple reason that if you oppose them on an issue that would improve upon one or more of the values you cherish then YOU would be the one thats harming those values(obviously if there are insidius or harmful strings attached to said bill, oppose away since that would be common sense)

As an outsider tho, i simply don't think sinking to the level of the republicans and blindly opposing everything they want to do would be beneficial to the Democratic party.

There is a quote by George Carlin(amongst others) i like that somewhat suits this: Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.( aka Democrats shouldn't try to emulate the idiocy of the republicans as they have much more practice in being idiots )

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
325. I see your point but you have to understand
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 10:58 AM
Nov 2016

that the Republicans opposed everything Obama wanted to do...everything. They refused to allow us to govern and now don't deserve to be treated with any consideration. Plus, they have no good idea. The fascist right has hijacked the party...and we simply must refuse to give them any normalcy. They want to register Muslims ( among other awful things)..think about that. Personally, when they register Muslims. I too will register...as was done by Denmark during WWII. My daughter who is gay has been threatened at college by Trump supporters who stalked her on the internet. Trump represents a great evil and must be vanquished politically as soon as possible. It can not be business as usual with this man. He is dangerous.

Bodhi BloodWave

(2,346 posts)
330. i'll be honest
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:23 AM
Nov 2016

I fully expect 99.5% of the things Trump or the republicans propose to be harmful in one way or another which gives valid grounds to oppose it, i'm merely saying that *iF* something is proposed that is beneficial and above board then those 0.5% should not be obstructed just cause of who proposes it.

To use an situation nearing the impossible(and yes, the situation chosen was based on your post since i assume the issue is one close to your heart), if Trump were to advocate a bill with nothing neferious attached to it that would improve the life of gays in the US in different ways then it would in my eyes be wrong both morally and ethically of the democrats to oppose it, admittedly such a bill from Trump would likely have nearly if not all republican politicans oppose it from the get go(thus falling under my near impossible category of ever happening in the first place)

So i think we are more or less in the same camp, i just don't belive in a totally blind obstruction.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
332. If McCain or Romney had won, I would agree with you.
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:52 AM
Nov 2016

Their policies would have been not to my liking but they were not fascists. Trump must be opposed because of who he is...and how he emboldens the KKK and the Nazis. But we mostly agree. And let's face it the GOP will not offer anything that will be any good.

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
300. Because I have met the man
Sun Nov 20, 2016, 03:06 PM
Nov 2016

And have several close friends who are close to him. (as close as you can be to a senator and not part of his family)

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
221. Well the cynic in me says the 15 dollars an hour
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:02 PM
Nov 2016

figure was BS all along.

Kinda like Il Douche promising to bring back high paying union jobs with bennies to America LOL

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
278. Is he talking about how corrupt the appointees are? The pay for play and bizarre
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:18 PM
Nov 2016

Security clearances Trump is seeking that reek of the grossest corruption this nation has ever seen?

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
105. Bernie is willing to work with Trump.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:53 AM
Nov 2016

I don't find that admirable...he is waiving the white flag even before the inauguration...so much for fighting for the people and the revolution.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,103 posts)
69. Bernie is a political genius... showing his true progressive leadership skills.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:17 PM
Nov 2016

Last edited Sun Nov 20, 2016, 12:46 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
103. Really?
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:49 AM
Nov 2016

Well, he is not a Democrat. Schumer should kick him out of his committees. Personally, it makes me dislike Bernie even more...that he is willing to do anything but obstruct. So much for the revolution. This is why Democrats lose. There is no loyalty to each other and fighting back. I forsee a big midterm loss and a 48 state loss in 20 if this continues. Trump is illegitimate and wants to register Muslims. By working with Trump AKA the new Hitler, you 'normalize him and his white supremacist buddies like Bannon.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,103 posts)
106. Schumer should kick Bernie out of committees?! Really? Dems would be wise to put Bernie in a leadership position.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:57 AM
Nov 2016

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
112. He is in leadership.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:52 AM
Nov 2016

And by offering to work with Republicans who are now White supremacists, he shows he shouldn't be in such a position. Loyalty matters and if Bernie can't be part of the united front against the fascist Republican party, then he should be removed from leadership. He could caucus with either party as an independent.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,103 posts)
127. While I couldn't disagree with you more, I see where your coming from and respect your right to be wrong...
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:20 AM
Nov 2016

Last edited Sun Nov 20, 2016, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

My suggestion? Keep your eye on the ball... opposing Fuhrer Trump for the next four years and defeating that racist, mysogynistic pig in 2020!! Bernie has the leadership skills and, more importantly, the street cred to lead the charge. That's all I'm gonna say.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
140. I hope Bernie fights Trump and stands with Democrats
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:54 AM
Nov 2016

to defeat the monstrous evil that Trump represents...it is not an exaggeration to say our very future as a country depends on stopping Trump. I understand about loyalty to a candidate you believe in so I see where you are coming from. I hope you are right.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,103 posts)
167. Thanks for your kind words. No doubt we ALL have to unite in fighting that shit stain on our democracy tRump, the second coming of Hitler who threatens our very existence.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:39 AM
Nov 2016
 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
231. Why So He Can Call Dems Liberal Elites
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:15 PM
Nov 2016

in front of cameras over and over?

He's badmouthed Dems for years and is on a tour doing it again.

hueymahl

(2,401 posts)
203. The only thing that will lead to a 48 state loss
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:45 PM
Nov 2016

Is if we keep going down the moderate republican lite path we are on.

I'm going to fight for the people. My party will hopefully do the right thing.

Bashing Bernie on this is beyond hypocritical. Achieving progressive goals is a good thing.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
216. Working with Trump is the moderate path.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:56 PM
Nov 2016

Fighting him tooth and nail is the people's fight and I say Bernie should not work with the Trump period. He has Sessions as AG. Flynn as NSA leader. Bannon too...we can not work with these people and maintain any sort of soul.

hueymahl

(2,401 posts)
227. There are places to fight him tooth and nail
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:08 PM
Nov 2016

And places to advance a progressive agenda. They are not mutually exclusive.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
256. No Republican will ever advance the progressive agenda when they have
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:34 AM
Nov 2016

all three branches of government. They will trick Democrats and lie. Also when you have someone who is truly evil...seriously...he is a modern day Hitler. He wants to register Muslims and go to war with Iran...he wants to jail LGBTQ and end free speech...He will kill people...we can not give him squat...or he becomes normal...we normalize evil...nothing would be worth that. There is no coming back from that.

 

sfwriter

(3,032 posts)
14. And he got it from her as well...
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:06 PM
Nov 2016

Looks smart to me. Now he is boxing Trump into his own rhetoric. New situation, new tactic.

boston bean

(36,181 posts)
16. He is so principled and can negotiate for something better. But hillary
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:09 PM
Nov 2016

Is just corrupt. Damn these rules for women politicians are hard to follow.

LenaBaby61

(6,963 posts)
32. Not gonna work though IMHO.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:12 PM
Nov 2016

I wouldn't trust tRump as far as I could trow a Mack Truck. The man's a pathological LIAR who lies while he's saying he's not lying, and you can't box that clown into anything because his supporters don't CARE and they won't hold him accountable for anything. And, even though he doesn't necessarily get along with every GOP'er, they'll get along enough to destroy Medicare, privatize Social Security/prisons, increase defense spending, gut federal agencies etc. We know he doesn't have a mandate, and we know he's also unhinged as well. Also, not sure if if there are enough Rethugs to totally stop this monster from doing many of the things he wants to do TO this country.

IF Bernie can pull this off (doubtful because tRump is insane), then kudos to him, because tRump is certifiable. IF he doesn't, then he'll just be another person thrown under tRump's big, ugly, racist, orange bus.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
110. Trump is about to appoint Jeff Sessions
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:48 AM
Nov 2016

a racist jim crow kind of guy as Attorney General. There is no working with these monsters.

boston bean

(36,181 posts)
147. What you are seeing here is how people overlook the racism...
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:02 AM
Nov 2016

Well, they shouldn't be surprised when people point out what their vote actually meant.

Sorry berners who voted for Trump. You gonna have to deal with the impact of your vote.

 

TrekLuver

(2,573 posts)
149. Oh I know it's shaping up to be a Rogues Gallery...I'm not surprised...this is
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:07 AM
Nov 2016

what the "people" voted for.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
224. We shouldn't help them.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:05 PM
Nov 2016

Let them do their dirty deeds all on their own...if Democrats don't fight, we are so screwed.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
146. YES!!!!!!!
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:00 AM
Nov 2016

What the actual FUCK!!!??

I can't take this shit anymore! I can't believe Bernie is rolling over for this horseshit! DAMN!

Fla Dem

(23,239 posts)
150. Ye gods, that's what jumped out at me. 10 fu&cking dollars!
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:08 AM
Nov 2016

$15 Minimum wage. This was one of the hammers he kept hitting Hillary over the head during the primaries, and the got the Dems to include it in his platform. What, now he folds like a house of cards? WHAT A HYPROCRITE. Another politician who'll say whatever to get elected.

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
320. wtf is this nonsense. Please tell me you didn't think this through.
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 02:52 AM
Nov 2016

They had a primary. In the primary they were distinguishing themselves by their differences. This was only one issue among them. He was very correct in saying that Clinton was too cozy with Wall Street, at least as far as a lot of us are concerned. Why it isn't a problem for you, I'm not quite sure. But when the primaries were over he spoke eloquently on the merits of the platform Clinton adopted. She was the nominee and he leveraged his popularity to get a platform he could feel good about, and he supported it and her.

Trump is the next President, and it would be stupid and childish for Sanders to say he intends to ensure Trump gets nothing at all done in the White House. That shit only works for Repubs, who have a constituency that appreciates that childishness. Tell me we aren't like that.
 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
4. Trump called for eliminating the federal minimum wage. He also called for it to be raised.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:46 PM
Nov 2016

I see no reason to give this snake oil salesman this respect. Far too many Dems are doing it.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-presidential-debate-fact-check/2016/10/trump-kaine-minimum-wage-229149

WhiteTara

(29,670 posts)
5. Of course, Hillary was excoriated for suggesting
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:46 PM
Nov 2016

$12.00 and he would never work with her unless it was $15.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
155. Corporate wall street sellout whore was
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:15 AM
Nov 2016

what Hillary got called repeatably ...on this board...for the CRIME of calling for a 12 dollar wage vs 15!

But now Bernie is good with 10 damn dollars from the Gropenfuhrer???

I am absolutely gobsmacked by that! Blindsided!!! WTF Bernie??????????????????????????????????????????

Thanks for the crumbs from your golden plate King Trump!!!!

WhiteTara

(29,670 posts)
182. Well, white men are back in charge and
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:16 PM
Nov 2016

fuck us peons, especially those who believed so deeply in him they destroyed the one candidate who would actually herald change.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
7. Trump is going to abolish the minimum wage not raise it.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:49 PM
Nov 2016

It's nice to see Bernie allied with Trump though.

 

BlueProgressive

(229 posts)
11. Hillary couldn't wait to "work with Republicans", and I well remember
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:00 PM
Nov 2016

her primary partisans explaining to us what a great thing that was.

If Bernie can get Trump to move toward us on OUR issues, like a higher minimum wage, more power to him-- it's not quite the same as becoming a Republican-enabler.



guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
27. Welcome to DU.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 06:48 PM
Nov 2016

I agree with you on this. Obama was also faulted for trying to compromise with the GOP. The minimum wage must be increased. This sounds like excellent chess playing by Sanders.

mcar

(42,179 posts)
56. Obama was faulted on this board
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:58 PM
Nov 2016

by many of the same people who are now applauding Sanders.

Some of us are pointing out the double standard, or dare we say hypocrisy?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
177. Different situations?
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:24 PM
Nov 2016

President Obama was elected with a 365 electoral vote mandate. He had a strong position from which to negotiate. But he wasted far too much time and political energy looking for "GOP moderates" with whom he could work. In the end, he got nothing but obstruction, racist attacks, and birtherism directed at him.

Sanders on the other hand is dealing from a position of weakness.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
84. Sorry, no cigar.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:54 PM
Nov 2016

"Working with Republicans" to get things done is not the same as capitulating to Trump the rapist in chief. Nice try though.

 

BlueProgressive

(229 posts)
93. Well, you all should know.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:12 AM
Nov 2016
" 'Working with Republicans' to get things done is not the same as capitulating to Trump the rapist in chief."


The only "capitulations" I've seen so far happened on election night.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
114. Yes it is. It is working with the devil. Working with Trump gives him legitimacy
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:59 AM
Nov 2016

when he should have none...he is a racist piece of crap who will appoint judges that will jail Gay people,women,minorities, protesters and protect "christian freedom". You can't work with such evil..look at what happened in Germany. Are we becoming a "the trains run on time kind of nation?" It could happen here.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
107. Wrong wrong and wrong
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:59 AM
Nov 2016

There is a difference between working with Congres when you are president and what Bernie is doing...he is a Senator...I consider it wrong ,wrong and wrong. It makes me sad to see Bernie do this. They would not even allow Obama to select a judge on his watch which was his constitutional right...at the very least all Democrats and Bernie too should refuse to do anything until Obama's court pick is confirmed...you can't appease the GOP and you have to fight. After 30 years in the Senate, Bernie should know this. I know we will have those in areas like WVA who do things like this but Bernie? He should not do it

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
10. Wasn't this the same guy who decried Hillary for considering an increase to 12?
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:57 PM
Nov 2016

This doesn't sit well with me!

greatauntoftriplets

(175,653 posts)
43. Word like "traitor", "sellout", "POSUCs" and "Republican"...
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 08:51 PM
Nov 2016

would ring through the hallowed halls of DU. Many flamefests would ensue.

Unbelievable.

mcar

(42,179 posts)
47. Oh yeah
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:39 PM
Nov 2016

Akin to all the hair on fire screeds about sellout Obama.

Some things will never change, apparently.

greatauntoftriplets

(175,653 posts)
75. As much as I try to forget.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:59 PM
Nov 2016

Funny thing, a few months ago I heard a Republican whine about "oligarchy". Go figure.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
31. Bernie is practical......this isn't a discussion between liberals
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:06 PM
Nov 2016

He is trying to help working people in the context of a Trump Presidency.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
37. That doesn't fly with me.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:47 PM
Nov 2016

He and his supporters went after those who said $12 and now he says $10 is OK.

Sorry but that makes him look like a hypocrite to me.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
38. He isn't abandoning those people currently working for 7
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 08:01 PM
Nov 2016

They don't have the luxury of a philosophical discussion on this issue.

Bernie lives in the real world. As President, he would have used the bully pulpit to get $15.

As Senator, his job is to get the best deal that he can from a Trump administration.



 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
39. Gee, that was our argument for Hillary in the primary and we got called third way stooges.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 08:04 PM
Nov 2016

It was a sin for Hillary to be practical but it is a virtue for Sanders.

Doesn't fly with me.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
45. Look where it got her....small ideas create small enthusiasm
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:05 PM
Nov 2016

Bernie would have been campaigning in the rust belt for higher wages and against the trade deals.

Hillary lost to Trump, so now Bernie has to work with the cards that he has been dealt.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
88. He is boxing Trump in...Trump said that he would support a 10 minimum wage
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:54 AM
Nov 2016

Bernie holding him to his words during the campaign.

uponit7771

(90,193 posts)
294. This is a win win for DPutin... he says yes, he wins .. he says no... he wins and no one cares
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 05:12 PM
Nov 2016

... in the M$M or his base of voters

HRC base of supporters hate DPutin to core

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
64. Who was Hillary being "practical" against?
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:06 PM
Nov 2016

Bernie?

Another question: Who was she being practical TO?

Big business?

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
73. Her point was that not every area could afford a 15 minimum wage. I am not saying I agreed or...
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:55 PM
Nov 2016

..disagreed with this position but she felt she was being practical.

Now Sanders is settling for $10 to be practical.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
109. There was consensus among a group of Dem senators from different states that 12 was doable
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:35 AM
Nov 2016

And a plan to fight for it. Unlike 15$, it was not a number pulled out of her ass.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
200. Always lie to the public? I've seen a few pundits reccomend that too. Lie to coal workers, to
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:36 PM
Nov 2016

College kids, get their hopes up and get the votes and don't worry about lying to them.

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
151. You can't abandon the country for four years
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:10 AM
Nov 2016

There are actual people with actual lives affected by this.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
223. Yes you can, and you must
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:04 PM
Nov 2016

Nothing the Gop want is worth it...nothing...they kept Obama neutered for eight years...payback time or Dems will continue to screwed over.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
116. Really...well I am sure Trump who will be so accomodating.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:01 AM
Nov 2016

You want to help working people...win the midterms...this is party suicide. What reason will people have to vote against Trump in the midterms?

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
153. You want to win the midterms? Let Bernie do his work.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:14 AM
Nov 2016

Trump will give many, many reasons for people to vote against him in the next two years.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
222. Bullshit...Bernie will either be blamed and Democrats who he is associated with if
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:03 PM
Nov 2016

things don't work out or Trump will take all credit and happy people who see Trump keeping his word (like Obama had such a chance) and elect GOP's during the midterm and re-elect Trump in 20. Bernie does not impress me as someone who can help us win.

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
58. What are you talking about?
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:00 PM
Nov 2016

He campaigned for her vigorously after she won the nomination. He worked his ass off for months! Now he's dealing with the reality in front of him.

He most certainly would have afforded Hillary the same courtesy.

athena

(4,187 posts)
68. Perhaps you don't remember him saying
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:15 PM
Nov 2016

that he would fight Hillary every step of the way after she won the election?

He said that during the campaign. He said it when he should have been strongly on her side.

https://trofire.com/2016/10/27/bernie-sanders-vows-hold-hillary-accountable-progressives/

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
71. Holding someone accountable is not the same as fighting with them.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:22 PM
Nov 2016

Plus, he has said he'd fight Trump and hold him accountable. In that case he meant fight and accountable, not just accountable.

It is my opinion that he had to take this approach, whether he wanted to or not, otherwise the people who believed in him would have lost all faith. They needed to know that if they voted Hillary that he would hold her accountable for what she promised. That, in just my opinion, was the correct approach at the time.

LisaM

(27,748 posts)
131. No he did not campaign for her vigorously.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:40 AM
Nov 2016

Last edited Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:27 PM - Edit history (1)

First he tried to fight her at the convention and his supporters tried to disrupt it. Then he vanished from the campaign trail. He finally emerged at the end but too little, too late IMHO. Now he's everywhere.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
117. Yes that is it. It shows how indepenents are way more willing to work
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:03 AM
Nov 2016

with the GOP than Democrats. And it shows why we lose.

Vinca

(50,150 posts)
21. But Trump says American workers are paid too much and that's why we can't compete
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:32 PM
Nov 2016

in the global economy. Nothing is going to change in the next 4 years . . . unless it changes for the worse.

mcar

(42,179 posts)
24. But Hillary saying 12 was a deal breaker?
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 06:39 PM
Nov 2016

I await the Sanders supporters criticism of their candidate.

theglammistress

(348 posts)
28. I'm sick of Bernie
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 06:51 PM
Nov 2016

I'll probably get banned for that. Oh well.

I voted for him in the primary, because I wanted to show my support for both candidates. My husband voted for Hillary in the primary. We thought that would be fair. We live in Ohio.

We were very excited and enthusiastic to support Hillary but (correctly) thought Bernie would push the Democratic platform to the left. Fine.

Bernie stayed in the race too long and hurt Hillary. He ripped her over this minimum wage business and now he's willing to sell out and deal with Trump over $10 an hour? NO.

I'd rather the Dems right tooth and nail and keep rallying for $15.

Cobalt Violet

(9,905 posts)
97. I'm sick of losing election cycle after election cycle.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:35 AM
Nov 2016

He knows Trump is going to do as much for the working class as the Third Way has done. A big fat nothing.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
240. Ditto. What are Democrats going to do to win back 64 Rust Belt electoral votes?
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:46 PM
Nov 2016

Many on DU have a let-'em-starve attitude, but who's going to make up the deficit? Georgia? Texas? LOL

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
118. I live in Ohio
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:06 AM
Nov 2016

My husband and I split our vote too. We watched in horror during the primary as Bernie railed against the Democratic Party and drove Hillary's favorable ratings down. He stayed too long and never conceded. He treated Hillary with disdain when it mattered. Oh, he tried when he realized Trump might get elected and I doubt he wanted a Trump presidency. But he helped create one and now is working with the devil in my opinion...no good will come of it. And it makes me dislike him all the more.

 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
41. You're Not Alone
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 08:45 PM
Nov 2016

Both told their followers exactly what they'd do and both are walking it all back...faster than I thought.

LMAO

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
60. Keep laughing...
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:02 PM
Nov 2016

...after your candidate lost. She lost. He's still here, fortunately, trying his best to avoid a disaster with Trump. If he was working with Hillary as president, he would have been negotiating with someone that shared many fundamental principles. That's not the case, and it won't be. He has to work with what's in front of him. Plus, I think he's gambling Trump will not support even $10 and that can used against him later.

 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
72. Plan On It - Ha, Ha, Ha
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:36 PM
Nov 2016

She lost and I don't care - I hope she can live the rest of her life quietly with her family/friends and be done with it all. Who fucking needs this 24/7 garbage and hate like this the bros created. https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+memes&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS694US694&espv=2&biw=1522&bih=664&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFoOXworHQAhVH92MKHY3UArAQ_AUIBigB

You all preferred her losing and so she did.

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
142. I voted for Hillary
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:55 AM
Nov 2016

and I promoted Hillary tirelessly with friends, family and extended connections for months.

I'm not a "bro."

Even if that had not been the case, I would never in a million years preferred things to turn out this way.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
121. Wrong and more wrong. He is doing no good and should fight
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:10 AM
Nov 2016

to oust Republicans...no good can come from working with them...just ask Obama.

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
143. Truthfully I'm pushing my opinion on his intent.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:56 AM
Nov 2016

I do agree with you, working with them doesn't work and we've had 8 years of that.

 

TrekLuver

(2,573 posts)
36. Why shouldn't he work with this Trashpot to try to improve the lives of Americans?
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:35 PM
Nov 2016

That is what he was elected to do and it's a shame that they all can't grow up, figure it out and work together.
I do understand that it would feel good to block, block, block...but don't worry there is plenty of things that they'll have to get scrappy about. It also shows how once again yes we are the better party.

For all you folks crying how he hurt Clinton.....yes he did...that's kind of the point when you are trying to win a nomination. I do agree that it would of been nice had he bowed out earlier...not sure that would of even helped considering his supporter enthusiasm.

I applaud the Dem's saying they'll work with Trashpot because we are not outright ASSHOLES like many Republican representatives.
I know I don't feel like that aspect is fully recognized by the American people nor do they have disgust for these Repub blockers...I don't even think most of America realizes what these Pub's are even doing. People are just not paying that close attention and I know because I was one of them.

 

Erin_Petrovna

(13 posts)
42. That's not our point
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 08:50 PM
Nov 2016

Our point is, Hillary was called everything but a child of god when she advocated for $12, and anyone supporting her on that position was blasted off the board. But now Sen. Sanders is getting plaudits for saying he'll work with Orangina on a $10 per hour minimum wage.

Smells like hypocrisy to me.

 

Erin_Petrovna

(13 posts)
50. I don't care if he was trying to be named Homecoming King
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:45 PM
Nov 2016

It's still hypocritical. What difference does it make why he said it or advocated it? It allowed him to paint Hillary as an enemy to the working poor and now he's trying to play the good guy by working with Trump? Nah. Doesn't work for me.

 

TrekLuver

(2,573 posts)
51. I'm a realist....get a grip this is politics !!!!!
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:48 PM
Nov 2016

So if this is disappointing to all the die hard Bernie supporters I can understand but again let's be real here and not live in a realm we would like to inhabit but it's not reality.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
122. He shouldn't work with Trump because it legitmizes true evil.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:12 AM
Nov 2016

Trump is not Romney or McCain...he is a fascist monster. And Bernie gives him cover by offering him jack shit. He shouldn't do it.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
233. Right and if we do this, we legitimize his presidency...as we just elected Hitler II
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:16 PM
Nov 2016

I won't go along with that...any Dem or pol that works with Trump is dead to me.

dae

(3,396 posts)
99. K&R, I agree but not for the same reason. You blame Bernie
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 07:06 AM
Nov 2016

for Hillary losing, so be it.
She lost the damn rust belt despite Sen. Sanders, & VP Biden working on her behalf. She lost it because of trade agreements, Wall Street ties, and consummate Washington/Globalist insider status.
Reading the article you attached to your OP shows Sen. Sanders reminding the PE of his pre-election populist messaging.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
124. I do blame Bernie
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:16 AM
Nov 2016

He was not the entire reason Clinton lost but there is no doubt in my mind had he not run in the primary, she would be the president - elect. That being said, if Bernie was willing to fight the evil that Trump represents, I would support him. Sorry when we have a Jim Crow racist like sessions appointed as AG, there can be no working with these people. $10.00 and hour which we will never get. Trump will add a poison pill and then claim the Dems are against raising the minimum ...why he tried blah blah. We sell our very souls when we work with such evil.

dae

(3,396 posts)
181. Sorry but we have elections here, not coronations.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:58 PM
Nov 2016

Hillary had many issues that made her a weak candidate, some of her own making, some of perception, and some from the 24/7 Repub hate machine.
FWIW, I supported Hillary after the convention.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
218. Well Trump is now the president...so pardon me if I don't shed a few tears
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:58 PM
Nov 2016

that my gay daughter may be facing prison because we lost. And we lost partly because of the primary. If Bernie had never run, Clinton would be president...Sessions would not be the AG and Flynn would not be the head of NSA. It is a shitshow...and we are pretty much fucked.

dae

(3,396 posts)
318. Believe what you will but just because you and others say
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 02:19 AM
Nov 2016

"Bernie cost Hillary the election" doesn't make it true.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
326. Just because you say Bernie didn't cost Hillary the election doesn't make it true.
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:06 AM
Nov 2016

Had Bernie never run, we would have President Clinton...why he did this in such a crucial year for the courts etc...I will never understand.

dae

(3,396 posts)
335. You are correct, it was Her turn. It doesn't matter how high
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 04:17 PM
Nov 2016

her negatives were and she was beat by the only candidate with a lower approval rating than her.
She was viewed as "establishment" in a populist message driven election.
Why do you think Bernie caught on? It was his messaging.

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
331. Called it. The Bernie-bashing is going to hit primary levels again.
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:32 AM
Nov 2016

Despite y'know, a large percentage of us who pulled for Bernie shelving our disillusionment with Hillary to vote against Trump. But no one's really gonna focus on that, and you know it.

 

sfwriter

(3,032 posts)
63. Not from a Democrat.
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:04 PM
Nov 2016

I expect more from Democrats. From Trump, who knows. If he can get ten, great.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
125. That is what is happening, and he should not be allowed to do it from a Democratic
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:17 AM
Nov 2016

leadership position.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
293. No, I don't want shit the Gop is oferring...you can bet it will come with strings...and sneaky shit.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 05:06 PM
Nov 2016

Sunny05

(865 posts)
78. Everyone, please read the posts ...
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:25 PM
Nov 2016

the posts about voters purged (in greater numbers than what trump won in some states), possible/probable vote tampering, and Comey. There are bigger enemies out there.

Having said that, I like both Hillary and Bernie. I don't know what's up w/ Bernie's negotiating w/ trump, but I suspect Bernie is doing his best with the situation. I don't know what was up w/ Hillary's campaign decisions, but I suspect she did her best w/ the situation.

In the meantime, here is what I do know. The real enemies are the cheats & bigots: Comey, voter suppressing conservatives, vote tampering criminals, racists, misogynists, anti-Semites, homophobes, trump, pence, ryan, priebus, giuliani, chaffetz, ....

My God, the list is exhausting even to start. I can't even think about criticizing Sanders and Clinton right now, b/c the real problems are just too overwhelming.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
81. What do you expect a United States Senator to do?
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:48 PM
Nov 2016

Sit in the corner and pout for four years? Bernie has said he'll work with Trump on good policy (like protecting SS and Medicare), and fight him on bad policy (like climate change "hoax" nonsense). If DU thinks Bernie will act like Republicans acted against Obama, they're in for a rude awakening.

R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
132. LOL! No, practical baby step progressivism was bad when Hillary proposed anything realistic.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:42 AM
Nov 2016

Bernie promised the moon with $15/hr, and it turns out to be bullshit after all.

R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
160. It is totally obvious, but sadly actually expected. To think we spent
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:24 AM
Nov 2016

months -- over a year-- calling out the obvious fantasyland we observed from him! Holy crap.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
163. And where are all the "feel the bern" people now
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:29 AM
Nov 2016

that Bernie is fighting for a...ten.dollar.wage.....when they excoriated Hillary on a daily basis for over a year and called her a corp/wall st whore because she supported a 12 dollar an hour wage??


Come and defend this BS now folks!!!

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
193. 10 is a small piece of this puzzle
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 02:50 PM
Nov 2016

the article said:

Sanders, speaking with reporters at a Christian Science Monitor sponsored breakfast, said he is ready to embrace Trump on a handful of campaign promises. Those include protecting Social Security and Medicare, negotiating for lower drug prices, raising the minimum wage to $10, imposing tariffs on companies that ship jobs overseas, and re-regulating Wall Street by re-establishing Glass-Steagall.

On these issues, Trump's promises put the President-elect closer to Sanders than to most Republican Party leaders. House Speaker Paul Ryan, for example, would not commit to passing Trump's tariff plan during a Sunday appearance on CNN's "State of the Union with Jake Tapper," saying that the solution is reforming the US tax code, "not tariffs, not trade wars."


There's no defending $10/hr vs $15/hr. It's clear from everything I've read that Bernie is either hoping he's wrong about Trump and can work with him, or that he can keep these issues on the table, on the TV, and in people's minds to help progressives in the years to come.

Not sure what he's supposed to do better?

If he had been elected president (he wasn't of course and didn't even make it to the GE), he would have faught for $15. IF Hillary had won, he'd have fought for $12. That's just politics.
 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
194. And yet Hillary was called a Third way/wall street bankster whore
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 02:55 PM
Nov 2016

10 million times weekly on DU for her 12 dollar proposal.

Hypocrisy really sucks balls!

ThirdEye

(204 posts)
198. Well those are your words, not mine
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 03:33 PM
Nov 2016

and they could be 100% true.

My personal opinion is that Hillary is a corporate controlled, money corrupted, status quo politician. "bankster" "whore" and "third way", well those aren't terms I would ever use and those that do are wrong and just being emotional (I don't mean you, I mean those you are referring to).


Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
128. I expect a US senator to fight for what is right.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:21 AM
Nov 2016

Did the GOP ever work with Obama? Bernie should not give legitimacy to Trump...he should fight to win the midterms and ultimately 2020 and that won't happen if Dems give Trump and the GOP cover.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
239. 2020, eh? How are Dems going to win back the 64 electoral votes lost...
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:33 PM
Nov 2016

in the Rust Belt, hmm? And don't say Texas or Georgia because I'll laugh and I'll laugh...

Ryan has a hard-on for Social Security and Medicare. I don't trust a word out of Trump's mouth, but IF he does the right thing on those two programs, I'll give him credit. And Bernie, for holding his feet to the fire, just as Obama asked us to do with him.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
249. Trump is a liar.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:21 AM
Nov 2016

He won't keep his promises...and we lost by less than 300,000 votes in three states...it is doable but not with Sanders running around making Trump look normal...if the Dems work with Trump, they will be blamed for what doesn't work and he will claim credit for anything that seems to work...bad bad idea.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
266. Dems didn't go after the Bush Admin or Wall Street criminals.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 01:05 AM
Nov 2016

Dems WILL work with Trump. Hell, even Obama said he wants Trump to succeed.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
262. Trump doing the right thing?
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:48 AM
Nov 2016

And as for Texas and Georgia, we will be lucky if they exist after Trump tears up the Iran deal.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
80. Wonderful!
Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:41 PM
Nov 2016
....

Sanders, speaking with reporters at a Christian Science Monitor sponsored breakfast, said he is ready to embrace Trump on a handful of campaign promises. Those include protecting Social Security and Medicare, negotiating for lower drug prices, raising the minimum wage to $10, imposing tariffs on companies that ship jobs overseas, and re-regulating Wall Street by re-establishing Glass-Steagall.

....

Sanders is calling on Trump to fire Steve Bannon, the controversial former Breitbart executive who was recently named chief strategist of the Trump White House.

Sanders is promising to fight Trump "tooth and nail" on climate change, an issue that Trump has dismissed as a "hoax."

The Vermont senator opposes Trump's tax policy, which would cut taxes for the top 1% of earners by $317,000 per year, according to the Tax Policy Center.

And Sanders said it would be "an outrage" that would "completely divide the country" if Trump were to make good on his promise to appoint a special prosecutor to "lock up" Clinton.

....

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-allies/index.html


The only adult in the room.

mac56

(17,557 posts)
86. Damn. I thought it would be safe to come back here, with the election over.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:24 AM
Nov 2016

But it looks like the civil war re-enactors are still raking through the coals of the primary.

Sheesh.

FrenchieCat

(68,867 posts)
90. Should'nt we be starting the bid a little bit higher
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:23 AM
Nov 2016

isn't the point to negotiate down only if necessary? If we start at $10, by the time it's done the current minimum wage will go up by $.75 if we're lucky?

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
113. Exactly.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:54 AM
Nov 2016

Wasn't that the argument against Hillary? She advocated for $12 an hour and was excoriated here.

Like I said above, wow.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
92. Actually, here's Sanders' exact quote, not a CNN reporter's spin.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:42 AM
Nov 2016
“He talked about raising the minimum wage to $10,” Sanders said. “That’s not high enough for me, but it’s better than $7.25 an hour, and we look forward to working with him to raise the minimum wage.”

On that, and a host of other issues of concern to financially strapped Americans, such as the cost of prescription drugs, Sanders said “we’ll find out soon enough” if Trump’s promises were sincere.

“Our job is to hold him accountable,” Sanders said, “and we intend to do that.”

....

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/monitor_breakfast/2016/1117/Sen.-Bernie-Sanders-It-s-time-for-Democratic-soul-searching


Since DU is all anti-CNN these days...

Response to SMC22307 (Reply #92)

R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
134. I wonder if he'll apologize to Hillary for excoriating her realistic 12/hr.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:45 AM
Nov 2016

He promised $15 and can't deliver. Gee, who didn't see that coming!

 

think

(11,641 posts)
135. As long as you ignore Bernie's actual statement posted right above your outrage makes sense....
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:46 AM
Nov 2016

R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
138. Uh, yeah. I saw it. He wanted higher. No kidding! Who doesn't.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:53 AM
Nov 2016

But that's the point. Reality is a whole different ballgame than his grandstanding without being accountable for anything you say. Clinton was brutalized about how out of touch she was with the common worker when she proposed $12/hr -- and he's now willing to accept $10. Such hypocrisy!

I still wonder if he'll apologize to Clinton for excoriating her realistic approach. Reality.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
152. He's holding Trump to his words. He says he wants more but he nor Clinton aren't president are they?
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:10 AM
Nov 2016

He has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to apologize for.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
156. If it makes you feel better keep telling yourself that. Why did Debbie Wasserman Schultz resign?
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:19 AM
Nov 2016

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
220. We lost by less than 300,000 votes in three key states
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:01 PM
Nov 2016

so yeah, truth always makes me feel better even as we face the worst years of our lives.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
248. Thanks... you too. This is not really about Bernie...the damage is done
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:19 AM
Nov 2016

But Bernie needs to stop. He can not normalize the evil that is Trump...no Democrat should. I have already called every elected person in my area and told them...'working with Trump is a deal breaker; I will vote for someone else period'. We will not argue about minimum wage as he ships Muslims off to internment camps or sends LGBTQ to jail or the shitty therapy which kills them. We will not be Germany. So lend a hand Bernie/all Democrats, or get out of the way.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
257. Bernie's not doing anything like that. Shame on you for suggesting such a thing. Bernie fights hard
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:37 AM
Nov 2016

Last edited Sat Nov 19, 2016, 01:36 AM - Edit history (1)

for what is right and your insinuation that he'd trade a minimum wage increase for something like that is just insulting.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
283. By working with Trump and ignoring...the appointment of Sessions and wanting judges who will jail
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:28 PM
Nov 2016

LGBTQ and registering Muslims...Bernie ignores a great evil and give Trump cover.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
282. She won her election and was a convenient scapegoat.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:26 PM
Nov 2016

There is nothing that anyone did at the DNC...that made Bernie lose...he got less votes and that is that. The horror that Democrats don't really like Bernie who has criticized the Democrats for year while giving the GOP a pass mostly. He lost...I seriously wish he would retire...because he will hurt our cause of stopping Trump.

R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
158. LOL, that's hilarious. The hypocrisy is astounding. He maligned Hillary for 12/hr,
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:20 AM
Nov 2016

but now that he is dealing with reality, he's willing to take $10 with no explanation as to why he mislead people.

Maybe he owes it to the American people to explain how his fantasy land proposals obviously wouldn't survive the real world.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
161. "He talked about raising the minimum wage to 10, Sanders said. Thats not high enough for me,"
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:26 AM
Nov 2016

but it’s better than $7.25 an hour, and we look forward to working with him to raise the minimum wage.”

R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
168. Yes, reality only matters now that Sanders has to deal with it.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:42 AM
Nov 2016


In the meantime, he poisoned the minds of millions of young Americans by misleading them with his unrealistic promises. He also owes Clinton an apology for making her out to be an enemy of workers when she injected reality into his fantasyland grandstanding.

R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
171. Oh, ffs. He said he was against incremental change, but that's because it was
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:51 AM
Nov 2016

Hillary's realistic $12/hr proposal. He obviously wanted his fantasyland high ground. Now that he's faced with reality, it's a different story. He should explain to the young people how he misled them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-minimum-wage_us_5714fc02e4b0060ccda3b8df
He has also said that we don’t have to settle for incremental change, and our opinion is, a $12 minimum wage is incremental change.”

 

think

(11,641 posts)
173. "Heres a partial transcript from a speech Sanders delivered on Wednesday "
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:05 PM
Nov 2016
What Bernie Sanders Wants From Donald Trump

CLARE FORAN NOV 17, 2016

~Snip~

Here’s a partial transcript from a speech Sanders delivered on Wednesday evening in Washington, D.C., outlining an agenda that Democrats and Trump might agree upon:

Mr. Trump said, unlike many Republicans, the vast majority of Republicans, he said that he will not cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Now, I believe we should expand Social Security … but that is what he said, and pay attention to see what he now does. The question that will be resolved pretty quickly is whether or not everything that he was saying to the working families of this country was hypocrisy, was dishonest, or whether he was sincere. And we will find that out soon enough. But No. 1, no cuts, says Mr. Trump, to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

Mr. Trump says he wants to invest a trillion dollars in rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. That is a good sum of money, that is exactly what we should be doing, and we can create millions of good-paying jobs if we do that. Mr. Trump, that’s what you said on the campaign trail, that’s what we look forward to seeing from you.

I happen to believe that the federal minimum wage … is a starvation wage, and that it should be raised to $15 dollars an hour, a living wage. Mr. Trump did not say that, but what he did say is we should raise the minimum wage to 10 bucks an hour. Not enough, but a start, and we will hold him to those words.


Mr. Trump said that Wall Street is dangerous, doing bad things, he wants to re-establish Glass-Steagall legislation. I look forward to working with him....


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/bernie-sanders-donald-trump/508007/


R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
174. Quit spamming. It's obvious you are making excuses for Bernie backtracking on
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:06 PM
Nov 2016

his promises. He maligned Hillary for the very thing he is now doing. Reality. Live with it. He was obviously misleading people with $15/hr. Maybe Hillary should have upped it to $20 and made it a real show for the easily misled!

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
170. "I wonder if he'll apologize to Hillary for excoriating her realistic 12/hr"
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:50 AM
Nov 2016

Don't hold your breath on that eh?

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
137. 10? WTF happened to 15?
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:53 AM
Nov 2016

I remember Hillary getting beat up on this site for saying 12, so what the hell?

10 is the new 15 and the MF republicans and orange hitler will take credit for it too.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
148. Sure they obstruct and fight President Obama for 8 years straight
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:06 AM
Nov 2016

and tell their dumb ass voters that its the democrats fault for their miserable lives.

Now that those putrid scum are in control the damn democrats will give them victory after victory helping them all the way so the republicans can say, see only republicans are going to do anything for you deplorables!

LP2K12

(885 posts)
164. Blame game...
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:30 AM
Nov 2016

Because people on here are still blaming Sanders, the "brosocialists" and socialist dems for the loss...

You know, instead of coming together to work towards reorganizing our party and electing more dems.

 

Uponthegears

(1,499 posts)
166. Breaking News
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:35 AM
Nov 2016

The same people who are 100% behind Charles Schumer's support of Trump's trillion dollar tax amnesty for offshore corporations throw tantrum when Bernie Sanders tries to get the party whose platform wants the minimum wage ABOLISHED ENTIRELY to raise it.

Why you ask? Because, because, because . . . oh yea, because minimum wage workers need to pay the price, NOT big corporate campaign contributors.

 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
196. More BREAKING NEWS
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 02:59 PM
Nov 2016

Trump already said he'd be up for $10.00 minimum back in July - so in reality Bernard is just going along with what his new boss already said he'd be for

Oh Bernard - you sellout phony


Sanders: Trump would allow states to lower the minimum wage ...
politifact.com/...o.../bernie.../sanders-trump-would-allow-states-lower-minimum-wag/
Jul 26, 2016 - Trump's stance on the federal minimum wage – it's currently $7.25 – has been ... Bernie Sanders on Monday, July 25th, 2016 in a speech at the ...http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/26/bernie-s/sanders-trump-would-allow-states-lower-minimum-wag/

Donald Trump says he'd support $10 minimum wage - CNNPolitics.com
www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/donald-trump-minimum-wage/
Jul 27, 2016 - Donald Trump supports setting the federal minimum wage at $10 an hour ... Bernie Sanders assailed Trump on Monday night at the Democratic ...http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/donald-trump-minimum-wage/

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
235. Really Ken
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:22 PM
Nov 2016

You think working with Hillary is the same as working with Donald racist Hitler Trump? Bernie should not do this...hasn't he done enough? Democrats need to refuse to work with Trump period...and fight to take back the Senate during the midterms. It is the only chance to save the courts...working with Trump will only hurt...us you can not climb into bed with such evil. We need to recognize Trump as the danger to our republic that he represents...this is not a 'normal' Republican'.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
246. As a woman ken I am used to their being a double standard for women
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:12 AM
Nov 2016

Bernie is indeed more willing to work with Trump...however, that is not my point. Trump is evil. Look at the people he chose for important positions...Flynn, Session etc...you can't play footies so to speak with such evil. Bernie gives Trump an aura of normalcy which should never happen. He is not a 'normal' Republican. He wants to register Muslims, jail gays, deport millions of the undocumented and of course this fun little gem end citizenship by birth in this country...He is the Hitler of our time. We can choose to help Trump keep the 'trains running on time' or we can band together and fight. Bernie needs to stop...he is making Trump seem like business as usual...we don't want to do that.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
247. He was JUST as willing to work with Hillary.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:18 AM
Nov 2016

Bernie did not object to the idea of a woman being president.

Agreed that Trump is evil.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
258. Hillary is not Trump. Working with Hillary who is on your team good
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:39 AM
Nov 2016

Working with Trump who wants to register Muslims =evil. We don't do evil. Bernie should know this.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
284. I hope so...after this election; I take nothing at face value.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:30 PM
Nov 2016

We need to stop Trump. Bernie should not work with a man who wants to register Muslims...that alone should stop him. It is akin to working with Hitler...not just Bernie...all Democrats...no Democrat will get my vote or any help if they work with Trump.

Demsrule86

(68,217 posts)
309. Berne fought hard against Hillary in the primary.
Mon Nov 21, 2016, 08:45 AM
Nov 2016

As you know, I believe had Bernie not run, we would have President Clinton (the election would not have been close enough to steal). That being said, it seems to many of us that Bernie should fight Republicans and not join with them to give us privatized roads and utilities which is what the infrastructure bill would do. Also, private companies would be used for the work. Sorry, Bernie should fight Republicans as hard as he fought Democrats and Hillary Clinton. Why doesn't he?

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
315. It goes without saying that he fights the right.
Mon Nov 21, 2016, 04:29 PM
Nov 2016

Treating Bernie as untrustworthy helps nothing. We don't need to go back treating the left as the party treated it in the Nineties.

And we would not have done better if there had been no debate and no passion in the primaries. We can't win when our presentation to the country is bland.

Maven

(10,533 posts)
236. What the fuck ever Bernie.
Fri Nov 18, 2016, 07:02 PM
Nov 2016

Now you're gonna lend him your supposed working class bona fides, after you said the Democratic nominee was a corporate shill?

Maven

(10,533 posts)
265. We shouldn't work to give Trump credibility.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:56 AM
Nov 2016

Nothing would be more harmful to the working class.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
268. Improved wages and (possible) jobs from...
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 01:17 AM
Nov 2016

a (possible) infrastructure bill would be harmful to the working class?

Maven

(10,533 posts)
272. You're a fool if you think repukes in congress will pass those things
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:32 AM
Nov 2016

Trump will use it as a PR move to show working class he's trying to help and the bad old GOP and Dem establishment wouldn't let it happen. He'll use Bernie the same way he exploited discontent among Bernie supporters who couldn't accept that he lost and blamed a "rigged system".

Bernie isn't helping and neither are you. But of course, as usual, it's all about him.

Oh, and here's an obligatory back at ya.

Response to Maven (Reply #272)

Maven

(10,533 posts)
286. Please read today's TPM about how Trump's infrastructure bill
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:41 PM
Nov 2016

Is essentially just a tax giveaway to construction companies and doesn't directly fund any infrastructure projects. As opposed HRC, whose infrastructure plan would have directly funded new roads, bridges etc. But she's an awful CorporateDem right?

Speaking of which, did you vote for her?

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
287. That doesn't answer my question about what the Democratic Party...
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:45 PM
Nov 2016

plans to do to win back the 60+ Rust Belt electoral votes Hillary lost. Or explain where else in the country those votes be made up going forward.

I'll read it. But you seem to be assuming I approve of Trump's plan. What I do approve of is getting Americans to work. It remains to be seen whether Congressional Dems will roll over, or act like a true opposition party.

I voted, and my Northern Virginia blue bubble carried Virginia. You're welcome.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
270. ... to build toll roads and privatized utilities.
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 01:39 AM
Nov 2016

Trump has made it clear he plans to "partner with the private sector" i.e. sell the commons. Whatever Sanders thought he was accomplishing the optics and language of his speech are utterly horrible.

uponit7771

(90,193 posts)
295. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SANDERS SAID TEN IS NOT ENOUGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sat Nov 19, 2016, 05:16 PM
Nov 2016

I'll wait

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
321. We could have gotten more, if say, Bernie had won the nomination.
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 03:12 AM
Nov 2016

I don't think Bernie has a problem with incrementalism, or was ever so impractical that he wasn't capable of making compromises. Answer me this. After he lost the primary, did Sanders or did he not, get behind the democratic platform and also campaign for Clinton?

The problem is that interests of the poor and working class have been given short shrift by the democratic establishment, under Hillary and the DLC at large for a long time. That isn't incrementalism. It's regression. We are very much where we are because the democrats stopped having the tools to court the middle class, because that would have meant speaking of class warfare, and their corporate overlords would not have that, not that they themselves believe in it.

so since we wouldn't tell the people the effing truth about why they have so much financial insecurity, they bought the lie that came with the most red meat, and until we change that, they are going to continue to pin their hopes on crazy nationalistic racist tripe.

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
313. what happened to 15/hr?
Mon Nov 21, 2016, 11:48 AM
Nov 2016

It's impossible to live on $10/hr. minus taxes, Soc. Sec. and Medicare "entitlements" withdrawn, etc. People making $10/hr. are taking home $7-8/hr. and need a second job just to get by or they're bringing in only $60/day.

Let Trump live on that.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
322. BREAKING: Sanders Still Trying to Raise Minimum Wage
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 09:01 AM
Nov 2016

What president did you think he was going to have to work with?

 

Uponthegears

(1,499 posts)
327. Having failed people of ALL races, genders, orientations, religions and races
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:10 AM
Nov 2016

by losing to an orange orangutan, Hillary loyalists now want to show their disappointment by punishing minimum wage workers

NICE





jmowreader

(50,419 posts)
337. Let me get this straight
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 06:09 PM
Nov 2016

During the election, $14.99 per hour was a Sin Against God And Society. Now he's willing to accept $10?

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