Clinton Strategist Karen Finney Blames Election Loss on Sexism from Bernie Bros

[Grey Lemercier]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/clinton-strategist-karen-finney-blames-election-loss-on-sexism-from-bernie-bros/

In an interview with CNN Newsroom Wednesday, Hillary Clinton senior advisor Karen Finney blamed the Democratic candidate’s loss on the fact that male supporters of Bernie Sanders made young women feel hesitant to express their support for Clinton online.

Finney was asked what factors she believed contributed to Clinton’s loss. “Electing the first woman president was always going to be tough,” she responded. “I think given the level of sexism and misogyny that we saw come to the surface and be very public, I think that supports the fact that in this country, we are going to have to have a real conversation about that.”

Host John Berman returned to that point a few minutes later.

“You said you thought that sexism and misogyny may have played a role in Hillary Clinton’s defeat… What evidence do you have that voters made their decisions based on sexism or misogyny?” he asked. “I think one of the things we never really had a conversation about– but again, I think going forward we should talk about– is how this country, how people feel about women in power,” Finney repeated.

“Some of my colleagues won’t like this, but I think even in the primary, some of what we saw with the Bernie Bros had a real chilling effect on a lot of women, and young women in particular,” she argued. “We learned about during the primary, there were a number of these secret Facebook groups of young progressive women who were supporting Hillary, but frankly they didn’t want to deal with the backlash online from some of the Bernie Bros.”

snip


video at link

[radical noodle]

1. I don't know if that actually played any part in losing the election

but I will testify loud and long that there were either Bernie supporters or people pretending to be Bernie supporters who harassed and intimidated Hillary groups and individuals all over Facebook. They were as bad as Trump supporters with a great deal of anti-Hillary lies. I'm not sure I feel like it necessarily changed the vote but I know a lot of women went behind closed doors to post after a while which I believe is one reason people thought there was no enthusiasm. There were a lot of enthusiastic supporters for Hillary, but we just got tired of the constant battering.

[TheBlackAdder]

97. Disengagement of Indy/Rep/Bernie support during primary, V.P selection & co-opting. But, whatever.

.


I emailed an analysis of what appeared to happen for posting, from a neutral poli-sci standpoint, when the site was under initial repair. After the submission and a follow-up inquiry as to why it was not posted, it remained unpublished.


I am not going into further detail, as it will probably be flagged for takedown. What's really the point now?


If that's is the result of the failed introspection into the 2016 campaign loss, there is little hope for repair.


.

[OrwellwasRight]

109. Most DUers

seem to think the party does not need to change anything. There's nothing to learn and only people to blame.

And I guess it is fun to pretend that all Bernie supporters are dudes. They are not.

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/31/the-bernie-bros-narrative-a-cheap-false-campaign-tactic-masquerading-as-journalism-and-social-activism/

[lonestarnot]

2. That is bullshit.

[otohara]

6. Bullying is Not Bullshit

Of course I wouldn't expect a bully to own up but one doesn't have to look far to find how horrible it was for female supporters.

And the memes my God deplorable

Good on Karen for speaking out

[lonestarnot]

9. Not in the voting booth! Bullshit! Stolen maybe, but not bullied on the vote.

[otohara]

13. Bet you had no problem with caucuses

In blue Colorado mere 127,000 participated because it's voter suppression at its worst. What a clusterfuck. Shoved into teeny classrooms cat hear shit. Hill won our room then some Sanders guy with a pen and clipboard talking about a weird rule math equation and Sanders ends up the winner? Whuuut the fuck?

Million registered Dems here what happened to a million voters? Large groups of voters unable to spend 4 hours with people you don't know. Can't vote in the privacy of your own home like every god damn election we have including municipals.

Spare me there's an article one The Nation (who endorsed Sanders) if anyone lost millions of votes, was her.

Volunteers from three candidates did not pull off stealing 3.4 million votes. But in caucus states like mine I can easily show you how one million people could not vote. Colorado has the highest voter participation in the country

It's exactly how Obama won in 08 low voter turnout. Hillary again did better in states where people are allowed to vote. All day long Not during a specific inconvenient time when most people are preparing dinner. All the ladies in my aunts assisted living home who wanted to vote for Hillary couldn't go. PM workers the list goes on and on.

She didn't whine or complain. Here's the article read it FACTS. Oh and by the way 4 states will no longer have caucus including Colorado. People were furious.

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-democratic-primary-wasnt-rigged/

[pnwmom]

17. Exactly. The caucuses were the ultimate exercise in peer pressure,

with the Bernie guys doing their best to take over.

[otohara]

19. It still blows my mind how they continue to yell stolen

My Millennial was all into conspiracy Bullshit for years

[pnwmom]

28. And they were so paranoid

that as we waited the FULL HOUR just to go inside the caucus rooms, they were trying to get people to take photos of their ballots on their cell phones -- so there would be proof of how people voted. Then we went inside and sat around tables where all the ballots were counted in full view of everyone. No paranoia turned out to be necessary.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. The Primary wasn't stolen. Hillary won it.

But she also lost the GE. It wasn't the fault of those all purpose villian "berniebros", FFS.

[pnwmom]

53. How do we know? What about the supporters

who pushed for a Bernie write-in?

[Warren DeMontague]

56. They didn't cause her to lose a whole ton of rural rust belt counties that Obama carried in '12.

Hell, if we want to go into speculative narrative territory, maybe the fact that DWS was such an awful front person for the campaign who spent months doing terrible moves like going to the Times and insulting millennial women, maybe that hurt us in FL, where we lost by about a percentage point?

[pnwmom]

58. She lost by very small margins, and with depressed turnout due to voter suppression.

How do you know that the Bernie-write-in campaign didn't further depress Hillary's vote count in PA?

http://www.theskanner.com/opinion/commentary/24576-op-deny-70-urges-voters-to-write-in-bernie-sanders

Here’s what Op Deny 270 says in a letter they sent to The Skanner News:

“There are 10 states in which no prior registration is required for write-ins to be counted for Bernie Sanders. These states are Vermont, Oregon, Washington, Iowa, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Wyoming, Alabama, New Jersey.

[Warren DeMontague]

62. I do think voter suppression was a factor.

As to your question, it seems there were 732,635 write-in votes cast nationally. Nationally, as in all 50 states total.

My guess is most of them were cast either for Harambe or Deez Nuts, but since official tallies are hard to come by, we may never know.


For the rest of it, I think trying to blame this loss on "berniebros" is ridiculous. Period. Full Stop. Predictable, though.


People want to do it, hey, who am I to tell anyone what to expend their energy on. Knock your bad selves out.

[JI7]

69. she lost those states because the campaign treated them like safe blue states when they should have

put more resources into it.

[pnwmom]

78. How do you know she lost PA fairly? They have a type of voting machine

that computer scientists at Princeton proved could be easily hacked, without leaving traces. And these machines can't be audited because they leave no paper trail.

[JI7]

79. i don't think she lost fairly but that was mostly due to comey, media and other crap. but i'm

specifically talking about what the campaign itself had control over and could have done.

[pnwmom]

80. Hillary couldn't be in all swing states at the same time, and just 11 days

before the election the polls had her substantially ahead in Pennsylvania. The numbers dropped after Comey dropped his bomb. She shouldn't be blamed for not anticipating that.

[JI7]

82. i'm not blaming her for that. i'm referring to regular GOTV efforts . and people in michigan

said they asked for help and they were dismissed by the campaign.

[Omaha Steve]

112. Clinton loses 32 IOWA counties to Trump won by Obama in 2012

[The Wielding Truth]

155. Best point of this thread. Thanks, Warren DeMontague.

[Champion Jack]

159. bingo

[pnwmom]

15. Proof that it is not bullshit

is that when a couple women decided to make a "secret" FB group to talk about how Hillary inspires them, the membership went from 2 to 600K in a couple weeks, and it's at about 3.7 million now, four weeks from when it started.

These are all Hillary supporters who came together in a group that doesn't show on searches, and you can only join by invitation, because they were tired of being harassed online for supporting her.

[redwitch]

86. Mostly harassed by Trump voters.

Family and colleagues and friends. I belong to that group and that is my take on it.

[JTFrog]

98. That group was the only thing that has helped me keep it together.

I was actually kind of glad that DU was down for so long because that group is absolutely amazing. I am so thankful to all the people who have been there for each other.

This place is right back to where Skinner said he didn't want it. But I'm sure that comes as no surprise to many of us.

[otohara]

105. Wish I'd Known About This

instead I deactivated Facebook until after the primary - silly me thought the hate would subside after Hillary won, but the RIGGED claims kept coming. The bullshit Hillary hate never stopped.

Now I'm off for good.

[JI7]

3. race was more a thing than sexism

when you look at non white men v white women votes.

[Grey Lemercier]

8. The Racist Side of Bernie Sanders Supporters

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/26/the-racist-side-of-bernie-sanders-supporters.html

For decades, one narrative has dominated American politics: That while white liberal Democrats may not be perfect, they are far more trustworthy and far less scary when it comes to race than conservative Republicans. The backers of Bernie Sanders’s never-ending kamikaze campaign remind us of an older truth: that there are good people and terrible people in both parties and that Republicans do not have a monopoly on intolerance.

Donald Trump has without question run one of the most racially and ethnically divisive presidential campaigns in recent memory. So much so that as former Senator Bob Bennett lay dying, he asked his loved ones if there were any Muslims in the hospital. His reason? So that he could go up and apologize to each one of them for Donald Trump.


snip

While high-profile Republicans step forward to denounce one of their own and to argue that minorities should be treated with courtesy and respect, plenty of white progressives seem intent on putting us in our place, so to speak, and keeping us there. Though much of the media coverage of so-called Bernie Bros—overzealous, predominantly white, young, and male Sanders supporters—has focused on their treatment of female journalists online, their lack of respect for racial and ethnic minorities who deign to challenge Sanders has been perhaps more chilling.

The Washington Post noted that at one point #MississippiBerning became a hashtag used by Sanders supporters on social media—a witty and clever turn of phrase unless of course you are a black American who hears the words “Mississippi burning” and immediately thinks of church bombings and lynchings.

Black writers and activists who have had the temerity to challenge Sanders’s record have been targeted by his supporters in ways that go against not just civility but even decency. I should know. I’m one of them. For having the gall to share my perspective, buoyed by polling data, that self-described socialists are pretty much unelectable to the American presidency, his supporters attempted to harass me offline. (Emphasis on “attempted.”)


snip

[JonLP24]

114. I have never been a racist

I have challenged many racists here at DU going back to 2008 (some of those were PUMAs) but I supported Bernie Sanders.

The idea that he or his supporters are racist sounds like a smear to me.

[Grey Lemercier]

122. so you are calling the reporter and thousands of others

who have been attacked online liars? I NEVER said all Sanders supporters were racist, but some unfortunately are.

[bettyellen]

138. Some were. Here they stalked AA posters relentlessly ...

As well as feminists. There wasn't a lot to distinguish the attacks when they were coming from Trump supporters, in fact they cribbed a lot of their script from the Bros.

[still_one]

21. Race was more of a thing, for those that voted for trump, concern about the "browning of America"

Comey started the ball rolling 11 days before the election by providing the opportunity to the republicans in congress to LIE that the "email investigation was being reopened". MSNBC was the first network who grabbed that headline, and then proceeded to trot every right wing hack across their screen amplifying the same LIE. The other networks then followed suit.

That was the catalyst, and significant damage was done by that lie, along with the news media, and the fake news from Facebook and Google insuring maximum exposure of that lie.

But in the end, it was the self-identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary that did the fatal blow.

[Beartracks]

38. Yes, why hack election machines when you can hack the election *process*?

The media is so dependably manipulatable.

==================

[athena]

94. Women can be just as sexist as men.

Doesn't anyone read anything about feminism? What is this crazy assumption that only men can be sexist?

People love to assume that sexism doesn't exist. That, in fact, is in itself sexist. To someone who believes deep down that women are second-class citizens, it is not sexist that women are treated as second-class citizens. It's completely natural and acceptable.

DUers may scream all they want that this election was not about sexism. A hundred, two hundred years from now, historians will not have the sexist hangups that men and women are drowning in today. They will see what happened very clearly, and they will look down on us for being so bigoted against women.

[JTFrog]

99. A good article about that in History of Feminism right now.

I am just flabbergasted that this shit still needs to be explained on a Democratic website.

[JI7]

100. are white women more sexist than non white women AND

Non white men ?

[athena]

107. You're mixing up sexism and racism.

Nonwhite people tend to vote overwhelmingly Democratic. So it's not surprising that they voted for Hillary in larger numbers than white people.

[JI7]

110. that's my point. race plays a huge part in voting

[bettyellen]

139. They are more easily co-opted into a patriarchal worldview, particularly when they are

Surrounded and their survival in that environment depends on supporting it. You should ask Priyanka about this, it's part of her field of study.

[otohara]

4. Intimidated Into Silence

Shit parents were intimidated.

Being called every nasty name they could think of was fare game. And the memes were disgusting.

I have a great article to post tomorrow that addresses the abuse and online bullying millions suffered.

So glad it's finally coming out.

[onecaliberal]

5. This is EXACTLY why so many of them refused to vote for our candidate when it came down to it.

The verbal attacks and accusations kept coming even when the primary was over. I do not agree with what they did in any way. But this stupid bullshit needs to stop or we will continue to lose. People are OVER the top fed up.

[spin]

7. At a minimum that could be called a stretch. ...

Hillary was definitely well qualified but she does lack charisma. In the modern age charisma obviously trumps charisma (no pun intended).

Bernie had charisma in spades and while Trunp is an asshole he managed to win the electoral college. Trump and Bernie offered change while many seen Hillary as the establishment candidate and this has been described as a change election.

[yallerdawg]

10. A stretch.

Now it's 45 men and not one woman.

Republicans claim it's all about opportunity.

Democrats focus on outcomes - the proof is in the pudding.

"No, there's no sexism here. We let her run, right?"

[spin]

22. I will totally agree that it's long past time for our first woman President. ...

Unfortunately it appears that it was the wrong time for Hillary. Now we are stuck with Trump.

I really feel Trump thought he would lose but now he is stuck with the fact that he won. Often it seemed that he was trying his best to give the election to Hillary. Perhaps he planned to launch a new right wing cable network. Who knows.

However I may still live long enough to see a female President but I have to take in consideration that I am now 70 so it better soon. I feel our nation will be ready for a female President after four years of Trump.

I hope and pray Trump works out well but I lack confidence that he will.

[sheshe2]

12. Bernie and Trump offered no change.

Just two more old white men, we have 45 of them now. So happy for the change....not.

[phallon]

14. I have been living in an alternate universe the last 8 years

and had a paranoid aura that I was drinking the media koolaid

[sheshe2]

16. what exactly do you mean?

[spin]

30. Trump will be the 45th President but the 44th President was not ...

another old white man.

If Obama could have run one more time he would have won by a landslide.

[sheshe2]

40. He could not.

She should have won by a landslide. She was the candidate, yet white misogynist men won the day, they preferred the white man that eats a tic tac and then grabs a woman's p**sy. Gawd bless Amerkkka.

[spin]

50. I agree that was a significant factor however ...

there are other factors to consider that were in play. The combination resulted in the surprising result.

I will admit that I thought for certain Hillary would win in a landslide. So did a lot of other people, many who decided to avoid standing in a long line to vote. The media basically said Trump had no pathway to win the electoral college based on early voting and the polls. That is one of the factors in play during the final days of the election. Since Hillary obvious had the election in the bag why bother to even vote.

Another rarely mentioned factor is the Democratic Party's position on gun control. There are at least 80,000,000 gun owners in this nation and they saw Hillary and the Democratic Party as a serious threat to their Second Amendment rights. Gun owners are often one issue voters and a high percentage vote.

While Trump is obviously not a religious person many fundamental Christians felt Hillary would put enough liberal justices on the Supreme Court to turn it into a liberal court for the next several decades. They decided to hold their nose and vote for Trump as he promised to stack the court with conservative justices if he had the chance. In almost all cases fundamental
Christians are conservative.

[sheshe2]

76. your take makes me laugh my ass off.

Since Hillary obvious had the election in the bag why bother to even vote.

Sorry....she beat the p**sy grabber by 2 million popular votes. They did not stay at home.

Another rarely mentioned factor is the Democratic Party's position on gun control. There are at least 80,000,000 gun owners in this nation and they saw Hillary and the Democratic Party as a serious threat to their Second Amendment rights. Gun owners are often one issue voters and a high percentage vote.

Hmmm. I watched the debates pretty closely. Never saw this come up. I never watched Donnie spew his filth, did he say this? Are you making this stuff up?

They decided to hold their nose and vote for Trump as he promised to stack the court with conservative justices if he had the chance. In almost all cases fundamental
Christians are conservative.

Lol! So, what you are telling me is these devout Christians that are bigly conservative dropped all their Christian values to vote for a man that is a misogynist that sexually attacks women after chewing a few tic tacs, then grabs p**sy at will. He groped his own daughter on stage at the RNC. He had his hands all over her ass. He told Howard Stern it was okay to call her a great piece of ass. They did all of this for getting judges on the court? For what? Getting sexual predators like him put away???? They ain't Christians. They are pathetic hypocrites.

[spin]

85. I know gun owners and the fact that gun control was not a significant factor ...

in the debates would make little difference to many. Many gun owners felt Hillary posed a threat to their rights and their minds were made up to not vote for her long before the Presidential debates. Many gun owners I know are conservative Republicans who simply refuse to vote for any Democrat period.

The NRA ran many ads on TV that constantly reminded gun owners of the importance of their weapons for self defense and freedom. The object wasn't to convince people who don't own such weapons to vote for to protect the Second Amendment but to insure many gun owners would show up and vote. It's my feelings that those NRA ads worked well.

Where I live at there are plenty of fundamental Christians. A large number I've talked with planned to vote for Trump even though they didn't feel he was a practicing Christian.

Oddly enough I have never run across an individual who stated that no woman should ever be our President. Of course that may have been their true feeling and they simply didn't want to mention it to a person they didn't know well.I'm certain that bias against women played a large role in the final result but in my opinion there were other factors in play.

Bias against women in power might even have played a role in turning out the fundamental Christian vote for Trumo.

I knew a fundamental Christian who refused to vote for Romey as in his opinion the Church of Latter Day Saints is a cult. Unfortunately I lost contact with him so I don't know who he voted for this time. I know that he would not permit his wife or daughter to wear pants or dresses So I doubt that he would vote for a woman as President. He eventually ended up divorced when his wife found he had been messing around with a woman he worked with. Don't kid yourself. There are a lot of religious hypocrites to be found. I tend to be more careful when I deal with a person who claims to be a devout Christian from the lessons I have learned in the past. To be fair I have known some people who were Christians who won my admiration and full respect because of their high moral values and their generosity and help for others.

[jmg257]

104. "They ain't Christians. They are pathetic hypocrites." Yep - its laughable a lot are 1 issue voters.

Just like gun owners.

It is funny, but abortion & gun rights matter to a lot of people. Especially in the rural areas.

Gun rights did come up in the debates, and Hillary botched it (mis-represented the Heller decision). And the NRA dedicated almost a whole magazine referencing it and her stances, along with all the social media covering the issue.

The abortion thing would be more anecdotal, but I gather quite a few women didn't vote Hillary because of it.

[tenderfoot]

11. from mediaite...

so I call bee ess.

[Grey Lemercier]

18. it about a CNN interview, so bee ess back at you

typical shoot the messenger dodge

[SunSeeker]

20. Finney nailed it. nt

[Feeling the Bern]

23. Alot of fingerpointing, so little introspection. Everyone, prepare to get drubbed in 2018

and lose again in 2020 until shit begins to change. This fingerpointing bullshit is annoying.

Next, she lost because of bicycle riders and stale brownies.

No more fucking fingerpointing!

[Grey Lemercier]

24. 2018 (unless Trump implodes in fantastic way) is shaping up as a Senate bloodbath

but if we bollocks up 2020 (census year), especially at state legislature level, we will be fucked for another decade due to further gerrymandering

[Feeling the Bern]

25. The fingerpointing circular firing squad going on with the Democrats isn't fucking helping our

prospects in 2018.

[Grey Lemercier]

26. I think everyone is still in a daze of anger still, and shock

Soon we need to get moving or the austerity-fascism/white nationalist steamroller will flatten us like cookie dough.

[PotatoChip]

130. Agree. (nt)

[SMC22307]

116. An astonishing lack of introspection.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, is Hillary's fault.

[TexasBushwhacker]

152. Yup n/t

[jalan48]

27. It couldn't possibly have had anything to do with Hillary-the most beloved politician in the US,

It had to be those bad Bernie Bros.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. Berniebros forced young Hillary supporting women to set their facebook groups to private

which, uh, directly led to us losing rural rust belt counties which Obama won in 2008 and 2012.

Clearly.

[jalan48]

35. And, don't forget, the Bernie Bros forced young women to think about dates instead of politics.

So says Gloria Steinem.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. Remember when Bernie went to the NY Times and Insulted Millennial Women?

Oh, whoops, sorry, that was Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

[SMC22307]

119. You're on a roll.

[SMC22307]

118. ...

[SMC22307]

117. Too intimidated to vote because of some assholes on Facebook.

It gets goofier and goofier every day.

[bettyellen]

141. If it was only in Facebook, you'd have a point. This was at caucus sites and parties,

Poker games and Dem meet ups. It was inescapable. And like trying to talk to fundies- only it was Wikileaks and Guccifer.

[SMC22307]

148. Say that's true, what prevented these women from voting on election day?

Go to the polling station, stand in line, vote, and shut up about it.

"Poker games"?

[Warren DeMontague]

29. well, who could have seen that narrative spin coming.

Okay, if she really is that great of a candidate, run her again, then.

Sanders certainly isn't going to run again in 4 years. By then we should have straightened all this "berniebro" stuff out, amirite?

[spin]

31. I'm a year older than Hillary and I never could have endured a presidential ...

campaign. I doubt if she will feel up to trying again in four years but then I could be wrong.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. I think trying to blame this on "berniebros" is beyond fucking ridiculous.

but I could have set my watch by how predictable it would be.

[spin]

39. I could be wrong but in my opinion this was a change election. ...

Unfortunately Hillary was viewed as the establishment candidate by enough voters to lose in the electoral college.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. I agree. And I think there was a combination of messaging and tactical errors by her campaign

Now I think Hillary overcame some natural skill deficiencies as a politician, grew as a candidate both in terms of performance and message, particularly during & after the convention. She as a candidate did a great job.

(And I am firmly convinced, despite this sort of bargle we've been subjected to nonstop for months, now, that having Bernie Sanders competing against her in a vigorous primary process caused her to hone her message and made her a better candidate)

But her own campaign and people down the pipeline in some of those rust belt states have acknowledged that there were problems. Major strategy and resourcing errors. Taking states for granted.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-campaign-neglect_us_582cacb0e4b058ce7aa8b861

If someone wants to blame a single individual or event, I think a case can be made that Comey threw the election or seriously impacted the results. But to blame it on Berniebros, again...

Honestly, though, the minute I logged back on I said to myself "okay, how long before some folks try to blame this on berniebros?"

Predictable.

[spin]

52. There is no doubt that Comey did no favors for Hillary in the end. ...

I still can't understand why he made the statements he did.

[Warren DeMontague]

54. he knew exactly what he was doing, he had to.

and it was a gross break from protocol that said "don't do anything that might interfere with an election within 60 days of the thing".

He sent that letter to the GOP congress knowing full well that the Friday News Dump would be 100% "CLINTON INVESTIGATION REOPENED ANTHONY WEINER LOPTOP EMAILS TEEN SEXTING SCANDAL"

You could see the paroxysms of glee on Kellyanne Conway's face.

[spin]

71. That does seem logical to me. ...

He definitely overstepped the boundaries and protocols his job with his last statement.

[Raster]

115. Kellyanne, what if there is nothing there, what if there is no indictment?

"Well, the damage is already done to Hillary Clinton..."

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

129. Ding! Ding! Ding!

That is it in a nutshell!

I know people who voted for Trump who would have voted for Bernie if Bernie had been the nominee against a Bush or even Cruz.

And that attitude was commonly referred to as "sticking the middle finger to the establishment."

[yallerdawg]

41. I reckon Karen Finney should keep her opinion to herself.

Her bein' a woman and all.

Right, bruh?



You do know what you all sound like - don't you?

[Warren DeMontague]

44. yeah, someone who is calling bullshit on a patently ridiculous narrative.

That's what I sound like.

She's entitled to her opinion, as am I. My opinion is, blaming this on "berniebros" isn't gonna fly.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-campaign-neglect_us_582cacb0e4b058ce7aa8b861

[yallerdawg]

49. No Hillary bashing?

And then a link bashing Hillary at a website that told us not to worry about the entertainer Trump at all. By a "pundit" eating crow every day now!

Karen Finney, no. This guy, yes.

[Warren DeMontague]

51. except there is actual objective evidence that gels with this explanation.

Namely, the fact that we got clobbered in the rural rust belt.

[yallerdawg]

65. Are you talking about the primary or the general?

Didn't Bernie do really well in those states up there near Canada?

If there was some residual sexist resentment from Bernie supporters - could that have impacted the results in the general?

Isn't this the point of Karen Finney's comment?

[Warren DeMontague]

72. I suppose it could have, particularly if one buys the line that Sanders support was motivated by

sexism.

OTOH, if one buys the line that Sanders support was motivated by a perception that he was speaking directly to economic concerns of people who felt HRC represented more of the economic same when they desired change, then that explanation would probably make more sense.

It would also be compatible with the fact that she did just fine in states that Sanders won handily that were not experiencing the same sorts of direct manufacturing job-loss economic distress, like Oregon. Unless people in the Rust Belt are somehow more preternaturally inclined towards sexism.

[ucrdem]

46. It isn't spin. Remember what happened to Barbara Boxer in Nevada?

She was booed and harassed like she'd wandered into an NRA convention and that was effectively the end of her efforts as a surrogate. In fact it was the end of just about every high-profile California surrogate's efforts on Hillary's behalf. She was on her own after that and it fell to Bill and Chelsea, basically her and Bill, to get out the vote in California. No wonder Bill looks exhausted. Anyway that's one example of how sexism damaged Hillary's campaign.

[Warren DeMontague]

47. And yet Hillary won Nevada. I'm pretty sure she won California, too.

We can refight the primaries- I suspect some people enjoy it because it brings them back to the happy place they occupied a few months ago, or something - but that has jack diddly shit to do with why Hillary failed to carry a whole fuckton of rural rust belt counties that Obama won easily.

anecdotal tales of "berniebros" forcing young women to set their facebook groups to private didn't lose us the Rust Belt, either.

[ucrdem]

55. She won CA but it was a fight and shouldn't have been

and she didn't get the surrogate support I'd been expecting. After the Nevada foodfight it fell to her and Bill and they had to waste time in a state that hadn't been in play. The Bernie crowd scared off the CA surrogates who were in cheerful abundance previously meaning Hillary had less time to spend gladhanding in the rust belt as they supposedly needed her to.

[Warren DeMontague]

57. Bill Clinton was apparently telling the campaign to focus on the rust belt, & they didn't listen.

She "spent energy in CA"? According to who? What are you even talking about? There were a lot of states that were assumed to be in the bag that weren't, but CA actually was in the bag, and everyone knew it.

[ucrdem]

59. You're quoting something else. Please rephrase your question okay?

Anyway my point is that bullying Boxer materially damaged her campaign by scaring off not just Boxer but other California Dems who could and should have helped her with that primary.

[Warren DeMontague]

64. You claimed she was forced by berniebros to expend energy for the GE in California.

But whatever. Didn't feel like fighting this mountain of made-up primary bullshit during the actual primaries, certainly not gonna do it now. Enjoy your narrative. Hope it helps.

[ucrdem]

68. Look I live here. I saw the effects of that disgusting melee in Nevada. It hurt the campaign.

Yes she won CA but it took a lot of unanticipated time and effort she could have put into campaigning elsewhere.

[Retrograde]

144. She put some effort into CA during the primary

Noting obvious in the general, but carried the state by almost 30 points over Trump.

[JI7]

66. Nevada was always going to be in play. it leans blue but like wisconsin can easily go the other way

if you ignore it and not put into it what you need.

[ucrdem]

73. Possibly but my point is that Boxer didn't help in CA because she got trashed in Nevada.

And the other CA surrogates went radio silent too, notably Jerry Brown.

[JI7]

74. Jerry Brown didn't campaign for himself either , she had california because of the hispanic vote

there was no help needed in california.

[ucrdem]

75. She should have had CA, but the support she'd been getting from Boxer and others including Brown

disappeared and when the going got tough it fell to her and Bill to do most of the heavy lifting. They were here for weeks doing three and four events a day.

[JI7]

77. you are probably thinking of fundraisers.

[ucrdem]

84. By surrogate support I mean media availability and campaign events.

Some local pols came to the events but the statewide pols went mum. And yes, Jerry campaigns for himself, and had been making statements favoring Clinton for at least a year.

[bettyellen]

90. That was part of the reason I picked Nevada's senate race to help....

The truth is, there was a lot of "bern it down" bullshitthat was just exhausting to deal with. I really didn't have the energy to keep arguing with my Berner friends and just shook my head in disbelief when they cited "Guccifer" the hacker and various RW sources.
I was kind because I knew I would have fully supported Bernies run. I only put my foot down in May when it was know he had lost. Personally I'm a very vocal person and for too long, the harassment made me less so. Many Clinton supporters have shared their dismay at feeling like they were harassed into silence.
It's actually a thing that many of us have been discussing this year. I'm not surprised to see guys claim it's not relevant or important- that's ALSO part of the thing. Nope.

[otohara]

106. Disgraceful & Disrespectful

Like Trump's mobs

[aikoaiko]

132. There were a lot of problems with the NV convention.

I also remember the seriously contentious convention process that preceded Boxer's "unity speech".

"You're booing Bernie when you boo me" said Barbara Boxer, was probably the exact wrong thing to say.

You say that HRC surrogates decreased their appearances after that and you may be right, but it may be because the Clinton campaign saw how much Boxer's poor response was helping Bernie. By the end of her unity speech, Boxer was openly antagonizing Bernie supporters.

[closeupready]

96. lol, I know right? She is either 100% delusional, or deliberately misleading people.

[herding cats]

43. Sexism was a part of the equation, but not by and large from the real Bernie supporters.

Yes, I know there's a real issue with some people's ability to know what's real vs. fake on the internet. Yes, there was a plethora of supposed Bernie supporters who were all kinds of sexist (I encounterd them daily on Twitter and Discus), but I question their credentials. We all should. This election season was owned by trolls, and they did manipulate some of our more emotionally vulnerable fringe. That I'll agree with, but the real (real being people who voted Democratic in US elections previously) Bernie people who went to the darkside on sexism was a very small amount. Those who did were already people who hated Hillary on a personal level, or were emotionally vulnerable on other levels (there's probably more than a little overlap there) and they were easy to be plucked by the quasi professional trolls hunting them. They were not a large group, though. However, a few here, and a few there does make a difference. You hit on enough fronts, and drain off enough votes for various reasons and it will add up.

My belief is Bernie's people were trolled and infiltrated by a rabid group of non Democrat's who did, on some formats, contort his voice into something more ugly, and dark than was intended. Now, oddly, many of these rabid people have vanished from those formats. Huh, I wonder why that is? Sure, their feces hasn't been cleaned up yet, and the damage they inflicted on some people surely hasn't gone away (meaning their victims in both Bernies, and Hillary's camps) yet. Some of it never will. I realize that. That's why these trolls used hyperbole like, "Hillary's going to start a nuclear war!" They preyed on the fears of the weak, and then proceeded to manipulated them when they had them hooked. It was shocking to see people fall for it. But, I'm dangerously close to digressing here.

They were much more successful in that regard than the PUMA's who preceded them. Which was started by a McCain supporter in sheeps clothing, to my understanding. The trolls added success this year makes sense, methods of interaction have changed greatly since 2008, and it now makes it much easier to organize via social media without needing a real leader (who can be vetted), or a "home base" of operations. Which is a perfect storm for a troll army hell bent on harvesting the fringe ideologues and unwitting out there.

This is all JMO, but it's based on what I saw from the many, many, many people I interacted with this election season.

[Duppers]

61. Amen!!

Thank you.

[BlueProgressive]

48. Seems like pretty ancient history by now.

[yallerdawg]

60. A reminder to not forget implementing the "Sanders Rule" before the next election?

You know, where each state Democratic Party bars anyone from running as a Democrat unless they identified as a Democrat in the office they hold from the previous election (2, 4, or 6 years depending on office held), or as a first-time candidate who has never publicly identified as something other than a Democrat.

See - we do learn from our mistakes.

[BlueProgressive]

67. Sounds like a good way to keep the party from expanding.

We wouldn't want that to happen, of course. Clearly we have everyone we need.

[Duppers]

63. OJFC!

[Chakab]

70. This silly shit again?

:large

[aidbo]

91. Am I reading this data correctly to say..

..that Bernie primary supporters voted for Clinton (85%) in the 2016 general election at a higher rate than Clinton primary supporters voted for Obama (69%) in the 2008 general election?

Let me know if I'm misinterpreting it please.

[Chakab]

92. No, you're not. Additionally, the mud slung at the Clinton campaign by Sanders, which was all

related to policy, is nothing like the vitriol that Clinton surrogates directed at Obama in '08.

EG leaking these photos to "otherize" him:

[lostnfound]

81. Sexists living in Pennsylvania Ohio Michigan and Wisconsin. And Liz Warren?

What a stupid excuse.
Everyone knows Bernie supporters hate Elizabeth Warren too.

[riversedge]

83. REC.But the title is wrong. She said partly a factor.

[Cobalt Violet]

87. In other words

Another Clinton strategist blames voters for not living in her bubble.


Stop blaming voters! How many more losses do we need before they get it.

[BeyondGeography]

88. My goodness

[left-of-center2012]

93. So it's back to bashing Bernie? Guess you have to blame someone.

Trashing Bernie and his followers during the primary probably caused many to not vote Nov 8th.
Trashing Bernie and his followers now will not help the party moving forward.

[duffyduff]

95. She is right about the addle brained male dudes on the so-called left, BUT

the blame for Trump lies squarely with the media. The media, Jeff Zucker of CNN especially, are solely responsible for pushing this demagogue, this shitbag, on the public:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/jeff-zuckers-singular-role-in-promoting-donald-trumps-rise/2016/10/02/7c3d4366-865b-11e6-a3ef-f35afb41797f_story.html


Interesting this article was put in the "lifestyle" section rather than page one where it belonged.

There are numerous other articles talking about this brazen conflict of interest between Zucker and Trump.

The country is now in a tailspin because of this demented push for ratings and ad revenue.

[heaven05]

101. also covertly racist

bernie bros were a large problem with those type of attitudes, whitespaining, condescending toward AA during primaries. A lot of AA got banned and chastised with the false and stupid charge of being reverse racist here over that fact if I remember correctly. The juries.......well I have an opinion on that but I'll keep my counsel. I wouldn't be surprised if it's found out a majority of them voted for trumpfuhrer. Not surprised at all. And that is what I see as the truth concerning one reason we lost this election to the iron heel of the NNPA.

[Lil Missy]

102. One of several factors that tipped the scale, the Bernie Bros were definately a factor.

[oasis]

103. Kinney should've listed the "Comey Factor" as being the number one cause

before exploring anything else. Comey's role in Hillary's defeat needs to be brought up in every discussion with the MSM.

[OrwellwasRight]

108. Guess that means she's off the hook.

I'm shocked that she didn't step up and take any blame at all for her strategic advice.

[KittyWampus]

111. It was up to HILLARY CLINTON to make up the difference. She failed. Her team failed.

There are multiple reasons why she and her team failed.

Sanders' supporters and sexism are only the smallest parts.

The fact I've yet to see a Clinton or one of her team do any self-introspection is appalling.

Blame everyone but yourselves

The biggest reason Clinton failed was over confidence and trying to expand the map while failing in the Rust Belt.

And after that I put Comey and the Media and Voter Supression.

[otohara]

113. Nice Try

It was nearly impossible for her to overcome the onslaught of hate from the right/left and Alt-Left especially.

They were so clever with their memes and bros were all to eager to pass around.https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+memes&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS694US694&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj70Yel1rPQAhWBSyYKHVTUCNIQ_AUICCgB&biw=1522&bih=714

[KittyWampus]

126. If they were that "clever" it was up to her and her team to counter that.

[SMC22307]

120. ONLINE assholes prevented women from getting their asses to the polls?

I'm not buying it... makes women sound weak.

[ucrdem]

121. Not just online:

[SMC22307]

134. I bet every one of those women voted.

This "women-are-delicate-flowers-intimidated-into-not-voting" bullshit is just that -- bullshit. And it's quite odd that so many on DU are embracing it. Suffragettes were beaten in the streets, but modern American women can't get to the polls because of vocal *Berniebros*? If so, they should be ashamed.


Ada Wright, Black Friday

Anything to counter Gloria and Debbie's digs at millennial women, eh?

[ucrdem]

136. I hope so. But the point is that the intimidation was real

and that it changed behaviors. Heck it changed Barbara Boxer's behavior, and no one would call her a delicate flower, but she fell noticeably silent when her voice was needed most, in the CA primary. Another example: Clinton is winning by over 3 million votes in Calif but I can count the Hillary bumper stickers I've seen here this year on one hand. Why do you think that is?

[SMC22307]

140. You're seriously trying to convince us that Brooklyn-born, bird-flipping Barbara Boxer...

was intimidated by *BernieBros* and declined campaigning for Hillary? Come on. She'd travel with security, so she'd be "safe." She couldn't get to the Rust Belt or North Carolina to help Hillary?

I too live in a major blue bubble and didn't see many Hillary stickers, either. Most in my circle weren't that inspired by her, but were stoked about voting for the first woman president. And against Trump, who is absolutely dreadful.

[bettyellen]

142. You don't think there was a target on her- and she declined because of concern there'd be more ugly

Shit in the press? When all the media wanted to do was show ugliness and strife the BOBs rose to the occasion and gave it to them. A lot of us felt it was worse than what the Trump folks dished out, and that's because we knew we were 90% aligned on issues and being bullied by a bunch of obnoxious men.

[SMC22307]

147. Boxer, a woman with an NRA "F" rating was *concerned* about....

"ugly shit in the press"? The woman who vociferously opposed the Iraq War, getting quite personal with Condoleezza Rice? The woman with a "100%" NARAL rating? She's suddenly afraid of... *BernieBros*?

I just learned down-thread that she didn't campaign for Hillary because she was promoting her latest book. Wasn't she afraid that *BernieBros* might show up at Barnes & Noble during a book signing?

[ucrdem]

143. After Nevada Boxer basically retired from the campaign.

Instead she focused on promoting her latest book which came out in June. I'm not pretending to read her mind, just noting that as a Californian her sudden absence from the campaign trail in the heat of the CA primary was noticeable and weird.

[SMC22307]

146. So rather than campaign for Hillary, she chose to promote her latest book?!

WOW. Wasn't she afraid that *BernieBros* would show up at Barnes & Noble during a book signing?

[ucrdem]

149. Can you blame her?

She didn't need that crap. She's in her 70s and done with elections. I imagine she was involved as a favor to the Clintons and only because of their family connection. She backed Obama in 2007 and it was a long time before Bill and Hill forgave her..

[SMC22307]

150. OK, so it wasn't *BernieBros*, but age, a newly released book...

and only recently being allowed back into the Clinton fold. Interesting.

[ucrdem]

151. You do realize that her life was threatened in Nevada?

So she found better things to do, yes.

[SMC22307]

156. Blowing kisses, flipping the bird, and confidently walking off stage?

No, just no.

[ucrdem]

158. Boxer: "It was frightening. I was on the stage and people were six feet away from me.

"When you have people not listening to a word and angry, their faces red. They were shouting obscenities," Boxer said. "It was a frightening situation. It was not under control."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/boxer-i-felt-threatened-by-sanders-supporters-at-nevada-convention/article/2591683

The fact is that Sanders partisans unhappy about losing the NV primary acted out by physically threatening a 76-year old woman who is also a respected US Senator. That's what she said and I believe her.

[Mc Mike]

123. I like Ms. Finney a lot. But she's wrong here. rec, nT.

[Ligyron]

124. So women are so weak and easily led in their eagerness to lick the feet of their boyfriends

that they were intimidated into silence? Did they then vote for Trump, 'cause 53% of the white ones sure did.

Clinton failed period.

8 years to plan her campaign and with the DNC firmly in the bag for her, tons of money, (some of it mine) and she loses to the most un-electable candidate the GOP could possibly put up and she friggin' loses?

Bernie could have won this.

So could Biden, O'Mally or Liz Warren if our main objective was to have a woman be President, 'cause it IS about time - but fact is we ran someone with too much baggage and all of it BS and all of it unfair, but we ran her anyway and she fucking lost.

Yeah, she won the primary but with the DNC (who all need to be fired) with their thumbs on the scale and no serious competition (out of respect for her) except Bernie.

I guess winning the popular vote is our conciliation prize but that and three dollar will get you a decent cup of coffee - and that's about it.

[KittyWampus]

127. Bernie would have been pulp after the first week. Don't delude yourself.

[athena]

160. Given the outcome,

I almost wish Bernie had been our candidate so that his supporters would have seen how badly he lost to Trump in the General Election. We would still have had President Trump, but at least we wouldn't have had to continue to put up with this endless Hillary hatred.

[geek tragedy]

125. Oh good grief nt

[aikoaiko]

128. Not surprising that a HRC strategist blames others and not herself.

Not campaigning in Wisconsin or very much in the rust belt was a key strategic move that failed.

[JTFrog]

131. Too bad, she is right. nt

[SMC22307]

135. Exactly. And who's the putz who gave us "basket of deplorables"?

And how does one get a gig as a highly paid, perpetually wrong strategist?

So much finger-pointing, with no one accepting blame. The Democratic Party better get its shit together.

[Denis 11]

133. I felt Hillary was a weak candidate, too much latent resentment of the Clintons. Not Misogyny

I dreaded the battle with my in laws trying to defend the Clintons again, they were unhinged in their hate for the Clintons and Obama. They watch Fox news and are not rooted in reality. The Right Wing propaganda machine had plenty of dirty tactics already at their disposal and I believe Hillary faced their weakest candidate and still lost.
However I believe Bernie Sanders would not of been allowed to carry the day either. Our Democratic leadership needs to be completely overhauled.
The deranged Republicans get to define us as weak leaches looking for free hand outs and our leadership as pandering, corrupt and unpatriotic. Trump dodged the draft, paid no taxes for years, had to settle the Trump university scam case, but none of that matters to the die hard Republican voters.
I will have a tough Thanksgiving this year and I am usually the lone Dem at the table although I live in a blue state.
I dread a recession that nearly always occurs when the Republicans have the Executive and both houses of Congress
Michael Moore seems to have a good handle on the current situation, so does Olberman.
I hope there is a Roosevelt in our party to help us survive Trump. God help us.

[jalan48]

137. OMG-enough already with the lame excuses.

Hillary lost to someone who is considered to be the worst Presidential candidate ever. She should have won by double digits, it has nothing to do with Bernie Bros. Look in the mirror Karen, that will give you a better answer as to why Democrats lost.

[BootinUp]

145. Clearly sexism is the main factor

In her loss.

[SMC22307]

153. Iraqi women managed to vote...

while their country was destroyed by war:











I've heard some lame-ass excuses about why Hillary lost, but Finney's takes the cake.

[HassleCat]

154. Stop the presses!

Clinton strategist blames everyone but Clinton strategist.

[SMC22307]

157. And there it is.

The excuses are UFB.