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Tue Nov 22, 2016, 02:40 PM

 

3 key states that Hillary lost, which have been blue in recent presidential elections: PA, MI, WI

Last edited Tue Nov 22, 2016, 04:57 PM - Edit history (1)

2 of them (MI, WI) have been taken over by hard right Republican governors and strong Republican statehouses in recent years.

I'm sure it's not a coincidence that these states flipped red in 2016.

And of course in the key swing states, FL and OH, hard right Republican governors and strong Republican statehouses have taken over.

Of course, new voter ID laws and ensuing voter suppression were a major factor in some of the states.

But was there something more?

Could a real election theft have been going on too? Does anyone here really put it past the GOP to rig this thing?

This article is quite interesting and informative on how it could have been done--
http://www.billjamesonline.com/fixing_a_presidential_election/

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Reply 3 key states that Hillary lost, which have been blue in recent presidential elections: PA, MI, WI (Original post)
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 OP
geek tragedy Nov 2016 #1
exboyfil Nov 2016 #10
SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #11
Raine Nov 2016 #26
geek tragedy Nov 2016 #13
pstokely Nov 2016 #23
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #15
meow2u3 Nov 2016 #17
Pathwalker Nov 2016 #22
The Wielding Truth Nov 2016 #2
LenaBaby61 Nov 2016 #6
The Wielding Truth Nov 2016 #7
LenaBaby61 Nov 2016 #9
Blanks Nov 2016 #3
SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #8
Blanks Nov 2016 #20
LenaBaby61 Nov 2016 #4
RockaFowler Nov 2016 #5
frazzled Nov 2016 #12
geek tragedy Nov 2016 #14
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #16
politicaljunkie41910 Nov 2016 #18
SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #19
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #25
Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #24
NWCorona Nov 2016 #21
Lotusflower70 Nov 2016 #27

Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 02:50 PM

1. Michigan doesn't have a voter ID requirement.

 

Neither does Minnesota, which Trump almost won.

Pennsylvania has a Democratic governor.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 03:49 PM

10. I remember being shot down when I showed concern about Minnesota on DU

when Trump visited there because I was concerned about the DM Register poll showing Trump up by 7 in Iowa (he actually won by 10).

I can tell you virtually every engineer that I discussed the election with here in Iowa voted for Trump. That is at least 15 different individuals. My SIL did not vote for Trump, but he refused to vote for Clinton. My wife held her nose and voted for Clinton (she still remembers Bill's activities in the White House) because of my strong endorsement. My two daughters were very angry at how Sanders was treated by the DNC in the primary, but I convinced them to vote for Clinton as well.

Just my observations, but I am not surprised that Trump won in the way that he did. I am not sure besides my wife, daughters, and myself, that anyone else in my family voted for Clinton (mother, brother, SIL, cousins, etc.).

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 03:53 PM

11. Anyone that showed concerned

was shot down, after of course, being mocked as a "concern troll". I didn't even bother, because with so many people in a bubble and ready to pounce, it wasn't worth the aggravation.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 11:35 PM

26. Yup, not a discouraging word was to be heard even

when those concerns were very real ... don't let reality intrude.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 04:43 PM

13. to be blunt, I think the middle part of the country had major Clinton fatigue.

 

Democrats desperately need a new, fresh face.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 08:06 PM

23. but that was the same state that elected a pro wrestler governor and sent a SNL alum to the senate

the anti-politicians seem to do well there

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 04:57 PM

15. my bad, thanks

 

will correct OP!

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 05:27 PM

17. Pennsylvania has black box voting systems

that were put in place when repigs held all the cards. Democratic executive and judicial branches won't be enough to change that law; we need a Dem legislature, which will require a lawsuit challenging the naked partisan gerrymandering that made it damn near impossible for Democrats to take back the legislature without suppressing repug votes.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 07:52 PM

22. Yes we do! We in Michigan have been required to show ID

at our polling places for at least the last 3 elections! In Michigan, if you don't have ID, you'll only get a provisional ballot. I've been challenged, my husband's been challenged, I know this for a fact.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 02:51 PM

2. Doesn't PA have a Democratic Gov.?

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 03:04 PM

6. Doesn't PA have a Democratic Gov.?

That won't matter if you have some faceless cyber-entity with a dog in the fight hacking voting machines for their own pleasure and as a favor to their buddies the GOP. Also, having a Dem governor won't matter if you have an FBI who also is complicit in "the act" as well.

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Response to LenaBaby61 (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 03:21 PM

7. True. The article said that the PA gov. was GOP. I thought it wasn't. That's all.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 03:37 PM

9. True. The article said that the PA gov. was GOP. I thought it wasn't. That's all.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 02:59 PM

3. Interestingly, news prior to the election...

In places where Trump had no chance of winning come to mind.

We all assumed that he'd given up on some of these states because he was so far behind. What if they knew the 'fix was in' so they stopped working that area?

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/27/483749518/donald-trump-campaign-largely-ignores-swing-state-of-north-carolina

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShaneGoldmacher/status/784449564027805696

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Response to Blanks (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 03:26 PM

8. If you're going to use a news story

to bolster the idea that Trump didn't campaign in NC because he knew the fix was in, you might want to avoid using a story from June...he campaigned at least a dozen times in NC between June and November.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #8)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 07:15 PM

20. I suppose if I was making a serious case...

You're probably right. It's mostly chatter that I remember hearing around here prior to the election.

There was talk about how they were shifting resources away from Trump in certain states because it was clear he wasn't going to win.

At the time, I didn't pay much attention to it. I didn't expect him to win. I thought it was good news for Hillary.

If there's nothing there, then there's nothing there. I was just hoping to jar other people's memories about those stories. I probably shouldn't have even provided a link, but North Carolina is of interest because the democratic candidate for governor won by 0.1% and Trump won by 1%.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 03:01 PM

4. Gonna be ...

Extremely difficult for a Dem to win the presidency without those states moving forward, and NO I don't put anything pas the GOP. They had help from the Russians, WikiLeaks, FBI and next time around in 2018's Senate races the thuglicans may just pick up that 60 plus seat majority so they'll have the true dictatorship they've always wanted, and in 2020, the Rethugs just might pick up super blue states like California, New York too.

We may have seen our last Dem President in Pres. Obama in 2012.

And no, I say that there's nothing too low that the thuglican party won't do to make the USA a Monarchy for the Rich again. How do you fight a monster on all fronts like that? Rigging, stringent voter ID's to the point of voter disenfranchisement, the Russians hacking and messing with our elections and our OWN FBI complicit with these treasonous acts as well. I mean, if the Russians chose to hack our elections again, do you think a tRump DOJ would investigate them or even look into it? Of course not, and especially not when their president's in bed with the enemy.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 03:03 PM

5. How about the fact that Fl Governor Scott had a Super Pac for Trump??

Such a load of crap!!

Never mind the fact that Pam Bondi took a bribe from Trump. Or that she is an Elector for Florida. Yeah everything is up and up here in Florida.

Oh and Trump's little lawsuit against the Palm Beach International Airport is now squashed. He got his wish. No more planes can fly over Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach. A flight path that had happened for 40 years, but OK!! Oh this area is gonna be for shit when he starts coming around. Glad I'm out of town for Thanksgiving.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 04:10 PM

12. The something more is ...

It would be fairly unprecedented, historically, for another Democrat to be elected after two terms of a Democratic president, much less even after one term.* The public likes to sway:



The last Democrat elected to succeed a Democratic president was James Buchanan, the 15th president and the only one ever to come from Pennsylvania. Buchanan succeeded President Franklin Pierce.

You'd have to go back even further in history to find the most recent instance of a Democrat being elected to succeed a two-term president from the same party. The last time that happened was in 1836, when voters elected Martin Van Buren to follow Andrew Jackson.

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/presidenc1/fl/The-Last-Time-Voters-Elected-Two-Consecutive-Democratic-Presidents.htm


We thought it could be different this time, because of the obvious idiocy and vulgarity of the Republican candidate. But, alas, a goodly number of Americans seem to like, or overlook, those kinds of things. Crudeness and hate are the new black.

Other things that contributed have been discussed endlessly here: people who didn't vote, people who voted for third parties, media equivalence, voter suppression, and on and on.

But face it: we were bucking history in the first place. History also tells us that the Democrats should do well in midterm elections during a Republican presidency. But then, there won't be as many seats open in the Senate, and that pesky gerrymandering in the House just might blow that chestnut apart, too.


*ON EDIT: We might like to say that Harry Truman is also an exception, coming after Roosevelt (who had four terms before term limits were enforced). But Truman ascended to the presidency when Roosevelt died shortly into his fourth term. He was, however, elected on his own in 1948.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 04:45 PM

14. the parallels between Gore 2000 and Clinton 2016 are pretty remarkable nt

 

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Response to frazzled (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 04:59 PM

16. yes, that was a huge factor, no doubt!

 

Still check out the linked article if you have time, it's interesting.

http://www.billjamesonline.com/fixing_a_presidential_election/

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 05:49 PM

18. Appreciate the information in your OP, but if we're not going to do anything about it NOW,

why should we give a damn about subsequent elections. If we have enough reasons to suspect that the recent election was hacked, and we turn a blind eye to it and we don't do anything about it NOW, I why should I give a damn about 2020?

If this was the GOP with the amount of evidence we have about Russian hacking and possibly the GOP, why should we believe that 2020 will be any different even with the suggested changes made. Future hackings would just have to take into consideration the recent changes made to the current systems, should those changes even be made. And why should those Red States who were likely hacked make changes to a system where they don't acknowledge a problem exists, if we aren't willing to fight this out RIGHT NOW? My husband has worked with the DNC for the past three elections. I couldn't in past years because I was a federal employee and working while he was retired. But knowing how hard those people worked in our area to get Hillary, why should people want to work for a cause that isn't willing to fight for themselves. There is plenty of evidence that some type of fraud was perpetrated as evidenced by the evidence presented in this OP as well as others I've read here, and elsewhere. The GOP would not have accepted this theft, and yet there are people here that call those of use who even bring up the possibility of the theft, are labeled as conspiracy nutjobs. I assure you I am not a conspiracy nutjob. But it drives me crazy that the Democratic Party never seems willing to fight for itself and is so quick to roll over like lapdogs when so much is at stake. Yet the GOP will fight to their last breath when they have nothing to stand on and then they'll just make up shit or disregard the law or the Constitution. Exhibit A, failure to appoint a SCOTUS Justice in an election year. You can be damn sure, had the roles been reversed, that seat would have been filled.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 05:55 PM

19. What evidence do we have

that the Russians hacked this election? Not the emails - we know they did that. But actually hacking the election? Changing votes? Where is there any evidence of that?

I would never call anyone a conspiracy nutjob, but all I've seen is people pointing to "anomalies" that are only anomalies to them because they simply can't believe that so many Obama voters would have switched and voted for Trump, or that so many new voters would come out for Trump.

Funny how we never question the fact that we're able to engage new voters, but some of believe that the Republicans can't.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 08:27 PM

25. there's no direct evidence of course--- but we know

 

1) Trump said it was rigged, and he loves to give hints

2) we know Russians had the capability

3) we know they wanted Trump to win

4) hackers were probing election systems prior to the election

5) there are ways to hack the election as noted in the article linked, and elsewhere

6) Trump's win was a surprise and went against polling before the election

7) Trump's win went against exit polling in key states

There's a good case for further investigation, that is for sure.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 08:18 PM

24. I agree so much about the Dem party-- they never fight like they should. It's damned annoying.

 

FFS, Obama has nothing to lose, neither does Hillary to at least say something about the irregularities.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Tue Nov 22, 2016, 07:45 PM

21. I think we will be re-adopting the "fifty state strategy" once more

We can't take any state for granted regardless of how blue.

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 02:23 AM

27. Ugh

Florida turned out to be an issue for Clinton like it was for Gore. But she totally missed the boat on part of the Midwest. She ignored the working class. Huge mistake.

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