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Fri Dec 2, 2016, 11:28 PM

Bernie as VP. That's my 2 cents

on how Hillary could have easily won. She integrated many of his policies and ideas in our platform. Sometimes it was hard to discern their differences as they were both campaigning on the same liberal ideas. Why not solidify our party by bringing in Bernie and his followers?

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Reply Bernie as VP. That's my 2 cents (Original post)
ALBliberal Dec 2016 OP
SpareribSP Dec 2016 #1
ALBliberal Dec 2016 #3
BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #2
SpareribSP Dec 2016 #4
JudyM Dec 2016 #11
BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #13
Grown2Hate Dec 2016 #20
JudyM Dec 2016 #28
PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2016 #5
ALBliberal Dec 2016 #7
PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2016 #10
pangaia Dec 2016 #32
JudyM Dec 2016 #14
PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2016 #18
JudyM Dec 2016 #24
PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2016 #38
JudyM Dec 2016 #39
PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2016 #40
JudyM Dec 2016 #41
TexasTowelie Dec 2016 #6
NRQ891 Dec 2016 #8
ALBliberal Dec 2016 #9
PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #12
TexasTowelie Dec 2016 #22
PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #27
Me. Dec 2016 #15
budkin Dec 2016 #16
Shemp Howard Dec 2016 #19
StevieM Dec 2016 #25
Lotusflower70 Dec 2016 #29
Efilroft Sul Dec 2016 #23
Lotusflower70 Dec 2016 #30
Squinch Dec 2016 #17
AgadorSparticus Dec 2016 #21
WheelWalker Dec 2016 #26
kerouac2 Dec 2016 #31
ucrdem Dec 2016 #33
pansypoo53219 Dec 2016 #34
BlueProgressive Dec 2016 #35
killbotfactory Dec 2016 #36
NWCorona Dec 2016 #37

Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 2, 2016, 11:32 PM

1. Or Elizabeth Warren.

I've never understood the Tim Kaine choice.

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Response to SpareribSP (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 2, 2016, 11:44 PM

3. Kaine was "safe" and I personally

Loved the guy. But he didn't solidify the party. Warren would also have sewn it up. I think Bernie would have accepted but Warren would have (and maybe did) decline.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 2, 2016, 11:40 PM

2. Try ego...Bernie or Warren would have been an admission of need/vulnerability

I like Kaine a lot but he added very little. She needed more credibility on economic fairness, but you never would have gotten her to admit it so publicly as with a VP choice.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 2, 2016, 11:48 PM

4. That's an interesting take that I admittedly didn't think too much about.

However I think it did unfortunately poison some relations further, as people didn't buy her really supporting Bernie's rhetoric and figured she wouldn't really be up for fighting for it. Perhaps the VP pick wasn't the right way to go, but it was one of the few high-profile ways should could show she really was willing to commit, because people sadly didn't trust her words.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:12 AM

11. I think you're right, but I also think she didn't really buy what Sanders and Warren were selling.

Had she seen the signs that a tsunami was rolling in with tRump largely due to disenfranchised workers and rural folks she probably would have swallowed her pride and picked Warren. She thought she had it in the bag and didn't authentically care enough about Sanders' peeps to address their pain.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:16 AM

13. Doubt she makes the same choice if she had to do it all over again

AKA that fun game we never get to play in real life.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:46 AM

20. I never thought it was that. I think she figured she had it in the bag, yes. But the choice was

more to solidify the Senate. Warren would have had her seat replaced by a Republican governor. Kaine helped sew up and solidify Virginia in the GE (which did happen) and would have been replaced by a Democratic governor. And I always thought that Bernie would have been more powerful in the Senate (and would have had a committee chair with a Democratic majority).

Alas, like you said, if she could have seen what would happen, you bite that bullet and pick Bernie as the VP to unify the party (not Warren; couldn't afford to lose ANOTHER Senate seat to a Repub).

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Response to Grown2Hate (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:13 AM

28. I agree but I don't think she would've been able to stomach him even if she did see the tsunami.

She could've chosen someone else with a more progressive viewpoint though...

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 2, 2016, 11:51 PM

5. There was never any way he'd have been on the ticket with her,

nor her with him the other way around.

They really are sufficiently different that it would never have happened.

And this notion was sufficiently mentioned before the end of the primaries.

Plus, I can never quite wrap my head around the notion that anyone ever votes for the ticket because of who is in the VP slot. I realize I'm simply extrapolating from my own take on things, but it still boggles the mind.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:00 AM

7. Bernie had true followers.

I'm a lifelong Democrat. I always support our nominee. Bernie brought new voters in. This is all ancient history now but I truly believe we need to tap into these voters that normally don't pay attention. He did get new and unexpected attention. I think we should have capitalized on it.

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Response to ALBliberal (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:10 AM

10. The way to have capitalized it was to have nominated him.

To think that either of those two would have been willing to take the VP slot profoundly misunderstands how truly different they were from each other. Or how elective politics actually works.

Honest. I was a strong Bernie follower, and I'm still genuinely angry that he didn't become the nominee. But in the end I voted for her, even though I live in a very Blue state that came out pretty strongly for her. I knew there was no point in voting for a "third party" candidate. People who think they can do a "protest vote" that way don't understand that we do not have a parliamentary system and if you're not going to vote for either the R or the D, you may as well not bother to vote.

Again, this was widely suggested, at least here on DU, way back during the primaries. It was never going to happen. Never. And trying to project backward and suggest it doesn't make sense.

Yes, Bernie was the best thing that has happened to the Democratic Party in a generation or two. Unfortunately, between the DNC rigging this for Hillary, and the mainstream media ignoring him, he didn't really have a chance. But he came incredibly close. I seriously doubt he'll run in 2020. Our best hope is that he continues fighting the good fight in the Senate.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 03:50 AM

32. Thank you !!

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:18 AM

14. If sanders had some kind of assurance from her that he'd be granted authority to manage bold actions

on some of his core issues, he would've taken the VP post. He as much as said so, one time that I saw.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:46 AM

18. I will say I missed that.

But Clinton would never have given him that authority, and I'm sure he knew it.

By saying that, it made him look open to the VP slot.

Also, "He as much as said so" doesn't quite sound like he actually said that. I thought I was following his campaign closely and didn't notice anything like that.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:08 AM

24. It was a video of him being interviewed on a talk show or news show this week. It surprised me, too,

Last edited Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:33 PM - Edit history (1)

as I'd also been following him pretty closely and didn't think he'd have wanted to be subsumed in her administration.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:48 PM

38. If he only said that recently, it doesn't really mean much,

other than a long-after-the fact bit of perhaps wishful thinking.

Back during the entire primary season it was clear that only one of them would be on the ticket in the end.

Yes, he did force her to move a fraction on some issues, such as minimum wage, but not far enough.

And for all that Hillary's supporters kept on saying that she'd been "vetted" and because of that she was immune, completely impervious, to any negative campaigning, it sure as hell didn't work out that way. It was beyond obvious that all of the old dirt and plenty of new would be thrown at her, and of course it was.

And while there certainly would have been plenty of crap thrown at Bernie, had he been the nomination, Bernie would have been (in my opinion) far better at countering it and challenging Trump, calling him out on his bullshit.

But unfortunately, we'll never know.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:54 PM

39. Maybe but I doubt he'd say it now if he hadn't thought similarly before.

I agree with everything else up you wrote

Found the link for you, wasn't a vid, though: https://trofire.com/2016/11/27/bernie-sanders-admits-taken-v-p-slot-offered/

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Response to JudyM (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:05 PM

40. It's interesting that he would have taken it,

but there was no way it was ever going to be offered.

And as Hillary's VP he'd have been out of the Senate, where (if he wasn't going to be President) he belongs.

Similarly, a lot of people seemed to think Elizabeth Warren should have been the VP pick, this before Kaine was tapped. Some of these were the very same ones who didn't want her to run in the first place, because she belonged in the Senate. Again, if she's not going to be at the top of the ticket, she needed to stay in the Senate. Which is what's happened.

Personally, I wish she'd run, forced Hillary out of the race, and selected Bernie as her VP. That would have been my dream team.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:10 PM

41. They would've probably won but might've been a tad too activist for our corporate sponsors to allow.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 2, 2016, 11:56 PM

6. It wouldn't have been a good choice.

Anything negative that Bernie said against Hillary during the primaries would have been used by Trump during the general election.

The only times that I can recall a president choosing a VP from among the other candidates in the primary are when Kennedy chose LBJ and Reagan chose Bush. In both cases it resulted in that party taking Texas. The only way choosing Bernie would have helped is for at least three different states to flip (such as the ones where the recounts are being held). While having Bernie on the ticket may have attracted some voters on the left, it can also be pointed out that the pick may have alienated voters that are moderate.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:00 AM

8. 'Anything negative that Bernie said against Hillary during the primaries'

Romney & Trump seem to have gotten over that. Romney has no self respect

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:01 AM

9. All good points.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:16 AM

12. Let's not forget that

Bernie won Wisconsin and Michigan in the primary. Exit polls show he beat Hillary 72%-28% among independents in Wisconsin. In Michigan, he beat her 71%-28% among independents. 72%-26% in Pennsylvania. 66%-33% in Ohio. 72%-28% in Indiana. 67%-33% in Missouri. 58%-34% in North Carolina. If Hillary brought in the centrist Democrats and Bernie brought in the left and independents, I think that could have been a winning combo.

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Response to PatsFan87 (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:03 AM

22. Keep in mind that those winning percentages that you mention

are among independents that voted in the Democratic primary and not the total population of independents. We also don't know how many of those independents that voted in the Democratic primary decided to vote for Hillary in the general election. In addition, when Clinton selected Tim Kaine as a running mate Virginia was considered a toss-up state so while picking Sanders may have help somewhere it could also resulted in losing Virginia in the general election.

In the genera election there wasn't much said about Hillary's selection of Tim Kaine as a running mate since he was recognized to have the minimum qualifications to be president by both parties because of his previous political experience. If Hillary had selected Bernie then Bernie would have become an issue for the Republicans where her judgment would have been questioned. There would be more scrutiny on issues barely mentioned during the primaries and despite Bernie's appeal to many, there are also many liabilities associated with Bernie. Those liabilities did not exist by having Kaine as a running mate. It's because of those liabilities that I believe that any votes that she might have gained would have also been lost if she selected Sanders.

At this point there is nothing to be gained by posting an OP of this nature and all it does is to rekindle the divisiveness that was present during the primaries. As the nominee selected by the party, Clinton deserves the respect of selecting whoever she believes will be the best choice to carry out her policies as VP and also carry out her policies if something happened to her while she was in office. She felt that Kaine was a better choice than Sanders for furthering those goals.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:13 AM

27. Not a lot of argument here, it's all purely speculation at this point.

I do find the narrative, not by you but by many Clinton supporters, that Bernie only appealed to the far left to be quite interesting though. As the exit polls show, he consistently beat her 2 to 1 with independents in open primaries. And from following his campaign, the support from many laborers, those on the picket lines, etc. was interesting to me. Trump was the candidate getting support with independents on the Republican side and Bernie/Trump had some crossover there. It would have been interesting to see who independents swung for in the general and if some of the Republican primary indies came over to our side- or if some of the Democratic primary voting indies voted for Trump when Hillary was the nominee.

I hated the Kaine pick from the start and it doesn't look like he excited many people. His debate performance was fairly poor as well. Woulda shoulda coulda at this point though.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:24 AM

15. Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:26 AM

16. Me too... I was begging for her to pick him

Seemed like a no brainer.

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Response to budkin (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:46 AM

19. Hillary picked Tim Kaine for the same reason...

...Bush the Elder picked Dan Quayle.

Bush the Elder longed to get out from Reagan's shadow. Bush wanted all eyes on him. So he picked the rather colorless Quayle. Hillary wanted all eyes on her. Hence the rather colorless Kaine.

That's one of my many theories, anyway.

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Response to Shemp Howard (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:08 AM

25. I don't think this is a reasonable conclusion.

HRC felt that Kaine would help her win Virginia. I think it is as simple as that.

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Response to Shemp Howard (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:33 AM

29. Good point

I also think a factor that influenced picking him was because he speaks Spanish. As a Mexican American woman, I thought it was an interesting thing to bring to the table. His Spanish is excellent. Some people viewed it as pandering. I thought he was bland and boring but she probably thought the contrast between them was a good thing. I didn't think it was a good choice. Nothing against him personally though.

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Response to budkin (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:06 AM

23. So much for "Stronger Together." n/t

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Response to Efilroft Sul (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:35 AM

30. Moving forward

I think that's the point though, we aren't all together.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:42 AM

17. Ugh. This shit again.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:47 AM

21. Enough, already....let it go.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:10 AM

26. Face the danger.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 01:54 AM

31. I agree.


My own parents did not like Hillary because they didn't trust her. Very sad. But they still liked her more than Trump.

However, when I asked about Bernie, they were quick to say they trusted and liked him.

I agree with President O, it's hard to compete when Fox is on everywhere. I would add right-wing radio as well. It's horrible.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 03:58 AM

33. The problem there is that Sanders basically ran against the Democratic party

meaning Barack and Hill. That was his whole schtick. So putting him on the ticket would send the way wrong message.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 06:14 AM

34. yes. unify. excite the base.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 07:02 AM

35. Our ticket was as WHITE as the GOP's.

 

I thought we needed a person of color on the ticket, from the beginning, no matter who got the nomination...

Bernie didn't fit that bill, but it sure seems like he might have bumped the millennial vote up a tad, and kept a few from abandoning the Democrats (if many actually did). This election was so close in the three critical states, any number of small things could have changed the result... but Kaine really didn't help us at all. We barely even held on to Virginia, where there had been about a 12-point lead going in.





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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 11:30 AM

36. But, He doesn't speak spanish

how would he possibly appeal to spanish speaking voters?

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 3, 2016, 11:53 AM

37. Fyi, it might be best to just

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