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Mon Dec 26, 2016, 11:28 AM

After Trump victory at Electoral College, world views collide

This is a long article with some very good information about the election. I found Ion Sancho's comments most interesting since he has been the Supervisor of Elections in my county (Leon, Florida) for 28 years as a non-partisan official. He is retiring now and for the first time is criticizing one of the major political parties.

I also found some of Sancho's comments very relevant to discussions here about what we as Democrats, liberals and progressives should work on to make our elections fairer. His comments are what I extracted, the entire article is worth a read.
After Trump victory at Electoral College, world views collide
Text by Christine BUCKLEY , reporting from Tallahassee, Florida

Latest update : 2016-12-21

<SNIP>

{Ion} Sancho later questioned the integrity of electronic voting machines used in Florida elections and was featured in the award-winning HBO documentary "Hacking Democracy". He was not surprised by Monday’s outcome at the Electoral College. “I’m a pragmatic realist,” said the man who will retire at the end of the month after almost thirty years (seven terms) on the job. But before he does, he hopes the American people will realise they’ve fallen asleep on the job, and act quickly to take back their power.

The voter suppression story ‘no one cares about’

“It’s good to see that people are disturbed,” Sancho told FRANCE 24, “But now I hope we can focus this energy on real election reform, because voter suppression has been going on here since 2000.” He estimates that more than 1.5 million African-American votes were suppressed in Florida during the 2016 election. Which for him, means that “the real story is not whether Putin manipulated the US election - he did. But our elections aren’t fair; they’re manipulated by both major parties, and I haven’t even started to talk about gerrymandering yet".

<SNIP>

“Since 2010 when the ‘ideological Republicans’ came to power in this country, the focus has been on ideology over facts, which has all kinds of ramifications,” Sancho said. “Evidence or data is irrelevant because faith-like ‘beliefs’ do not rest on evidence and I believe this has destroyed the American republic. Because it means that the end justifies the means for this kind of public official. And that can only lead to disaster for this nation.”

So what does Sancho suggest the average citizen do now? Read history. Educate yourself and your children. Vote and ensure that others have access to the polls. Believe in the public good. Talk about politics and listen to people who don’t agree with you. Debate. Hold politicians accountable. Demand proof and underlying evidence for everything. “All across the board, we need to get to evidence,” he said. “Opinions are irrelevant. One of the greatest con jobs politicians have pulled off in the last 25 years is to convince people that if you’re arguing on principle, you don’t need to compromise.”

Much more: http://www.france24.com/en/20161220-trump-victory-electoral-college-world-views-collide-protests


A favorite quote of Ion Sancho:
Principles is another name for prejudices.”
Mark Twain, 1900

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Response to csziggy (Original post)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 12:29 PM

1. In 2000 Jeb Bush, Harris, & DBT kept from 50 to 90,000 blacks from voting in Florida ...

.... in 2004 Kewn Blackwell, Karl Rove, Michael Connell, and smartech kept over 250,000
blacks from voting in OH, and in 2016 millions of blacks were kept from voting and or having
their vote counted all across America.

Trump even has taunted us about it too.

https://thinkprogress.org/donald-trump-thanks-african-americans-for-not-voting-2d35fbf00753#.ubx78aum7

During a “thank you” rally Thursday night in Hershey, Pennsylvania, President-elect Donald Trump thanked various groups of people for his expected Electoral College victory over Hillary Clinton. Among them were African Americans, but Trump acknowledged them for a reason you might not expect — he specifically thanked those who didn’t turn out to vote at all.

Trump won just eight percent of the black vote, after a campaign in which his main message to African Americans fell along the lines of “your lives are terrible so why not try something different.”

And at Thursday’s rally, Trump emphasized that his last-ditch efforts to persuade black voters to stay home worked.

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Response to Botany (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 12:38 PM

2. Yes - Katherine Harris used voter rolls purging to remove people

And not just black voters - many others were affected also.

One of the articles at the time mentioned that the Seminole County Supervisor of Elections stopped taking people off the voter rolls when she realized her name was among those to be removed. Ion Sancho did a random check and decided the lists were inaccurate and he never took anyone off based on the state provided list. I doubt that link still exists but I saved the article which is archived with all my other records from 2000.

Ion Sancho is targeting the reinstatement of felons and believes that it should be automatic once they have served their sentences. That is 1.5 million people just in Florida, mostly minorities. Think of the difference that would have made this year!

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Response to csziggy (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 12:49 PM

3. Not only did "they" suppress the black vote in Florida and in other states w/"cross check" ...

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Response to Botany (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 02:29 PM

13. That's the only way the GOP can win. There are just too many of us on the other side.

They either cheat, or be the minority.

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Response to csziggy (Original post)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 01:14 PM

4. Can someone please answer these questions?

 

If it is a fact that Russia hacked our votes, that the GOP cheated via vote suppression, QUESTIONS:

WHY IS IT THAT NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT IT ANYMORE?

WHY IS IT THAT THE FBI HAS NOT BEEN MADE ACCOUNTABLE?

WHY IS IT THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE NO INVESTIGATION OR EFFORTS TO PROVE AND PUNISH THOSE INVOLVED?

IS THERE ANYTHING GOING ON THAT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT?

WHY IS EVERYONE ACTING LIKE TRUMP WILL BE ABLE TO DO WHATEVER HE WANTS AND ALL I HEAR IS DOOM?

WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH Greg Palast's PROOF WHICH HE TURNED TO SOMEONE IN GOVERNMENT? (http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/)



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Response to Perseus (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 01:19 PM

5. answers

WHY IS IT THAT NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT IT ANYMORE?
The media will not touch this story

WHY IS IT THAT THE FBI HAS NOT BEEN MADE ACCOUNTABLE?
we bring a knife to a gun fight

WHY IS IT THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE NO INVESTIGATION OR EFFORTS TO PROVE AND PUNISH THOSE INVOLVED?
Republicans will block it and the media will kill the story

IS THERE ANYTHING GOING ON THAT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT?
doubtful

WHY IS EVERYONE ACTING LIKE TRUMP WILL BE ABLE TO DO WHATEVER HE WANTS AND ALL I HEAR IS DOOM?
Because he will do anything he likes and our nation is fucked.

WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH Greg Palast's PROOF WHICH HE TURNED TO SOMEONE IN GOVERNMENT?
Did you hear about HRC's emails?

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Response to Botany (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 10:20 PM

16. Those are pretty much the answers I would have given as well.

The truth is depressing as Hell.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 01:51 PM

9. Good questions - and I don't have any answers

I'm drafting a list of issues to include in letters to my Democratic elected official - specific issues - I want them to fight for in 2017. An investigation into the Russian and FBI interference in our elections is one of those issues.

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Response to csziggy (Original post)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 01:31 PM

6. Probably too far gone.

The comments by Sancho suggest a thoughful enlightened approach, which simply may be out of reach for many Americans these days.
I'm not convinced that the USA has the intellectual capacity to save itself anymore.

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Response to Loge23 (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 02:19 PM

12. Sancho has been lucky - this county is very blue and has been for decades

But he came in after a screwed up election.

A supervisor before he was elected was elected by a fluke. There had been a woman supervisor for decades and no one expected her to retire any time soon. But in 1984 hours before the close of filing she announced she was retiring. The only candidate who got the news soon enough to file was her son who had been working in the office for years. Of course he won - the position then was not controversial and people assumed he had the knowledge to run the elections because his experience in the office as a worker.

The first election he ran was a disaster. The old lever machines had not been properly set up, ballots were not aligned with the levers and voters were not sure they voted for their selected candidates. That election ended up being challenged in court and the state supreme court decision that elections could not be re-held was a precedent in the 2000 election.

Meanwhile, Ion Sancho took courses in election machine management and became certified in their use and that was part of his platform when he ran for supervisor of elections in 1988. He introduced paper ballots with optical scanners to our county and programmed the scanners to kick back any flawed ballots. Since the voters feed their ballots into the scanners themselves, that allows the election officials to give the voters a chance to correct any problems or to submit a fresh ballot.

Since then our county has had no issues with the elections. In 2000 once the recount was ordered it took 45 minutes to recount the "good" ballots with no change in the totals. The under 200 "flawed" ballots were released in a PDF file (that I still have in my archives from those days) so that they could be examined by the public. Most had multiple votes for the same office, extraneous marks, and other defects that not only made them not able to get through the scanner but also made it impossible to determine the will of the voter who cast that ballot.

Sancho has also participated in efforts to improve voting reliability - and has been censured by the Republican Party and the manufacturers of voting machines for his work.

He will be missed now that he is retiring. I can only hope that the man who he endorsed and who has worked with him for many years will be as good as Sancho was in office!

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Response to csziggy (Original post)


Response to csziggy (Original post)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 01:47 PM

8. Do you remember when

In 2012 Rove was adamant Obama DIDN'T win the election?
It was set up to be rigged then.
They knew it.
Something happened...I don't know what...
Obama was not supposed to win a second term.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 02:04 PM

10. Insufficient payola?

just a thought

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 02:37 PM

14. Yes. I recall Rove was on tv and refused to agree Obama won Ohio. He looked very nervous.

Even Romney was shocked when it was over and his supporters waited and waited for him to concede—with no speech in hand.
From what I recall, a plot (that perhaps Rove set up) to shift votes to Romney in Ohio was detected by an outsider (I think it was Anonymous) and was foiled.

Of course, the Democratic party learned nothing from this the first time because we won, so in this election Rove made sure everything was in working order, and it all went off without a hitch.

And the Democratic party is doing nothing.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 05:07 PM

15. The margin of victory for Obama was to great

n/t

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Response to csziggy (Original post)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 02:07 PM

11. Facts, logic, reason

and the strength of our intellectual arguments are all the remaining tools

Senators, public officials, a free press are the methods and conduit

Gas up the tank and gun the engine for all it's worth

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