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Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:01 PM

WE Are NOT the Problem

As is normal after an election, the losing party engages in a lot of introspection and asks the looming question: Where did we go wrong?

But this was by no means a “normal” election – nor is it a “normal” loss when the loser is the one with the backing of the majority of voters, and the winner has clearly demonstrated that he is not fit for office.

I think what we need to focus on is the fact that Democrats are not the problem, nor are our policies, nor is our message. The problem is gerrymandering, voter suppression, a complicit media, unverifiable vote counts – and now we have the added components of Russian interference, and James Comey clearly having used his office for partisan purposes.

In other words, while we’re busily distracted looking under the hood searching for a mechanical failure, the GOP goes about stealing the car – one hubcap, one tire, one fender, one taillight at a time.

This election wasn’t about Democrats having the “wrong message”, or having forgotten its core values, or having ignored certain portions of the populace. The Democrats have always been on the side of the working-class; we have always fought to maintain and strengthen the safety-nets that get our fellow citizens by during the worst of times. WE have always been on the side of The People.

We didn’t lose this election because we didn’t “connect” with people – we lost because many of the people we connect with weren’t allowed to vote. We didn’t lose because we had a failed strategy – we lost because the GOP, via James Comey and the Russians, had a “strategy” all their own.

We didn’t lose because our candidate had too much “scandal-ridden baggage” – we lost because the MSM never even mentioned the hundreds of scandals the Republican candidate was, and continues to be, involved in. Despite thirty years of unrelenting attacks by the GOP, Hillary’s “baggage” was two carry-on suitcases when compared to Trump’s cargo-hold full of steamer trunks bulging with lies, deceit, and outright theft.

We didn’t lose because we don’t say the right things – we lost because what we have to say is continually drowned-out by FOX-News et al. We didn’t lose because we chose the wrong candidate – we lost because their candidate was backed by a well-oiled machine that pursues the dismantling of fair elections.

We didn’t lose because our candidate failed to exemplify Christian values – we lost because so-called “Christian” leaders told their flocks that a self-proclaimed “pussy-grabber” was chosen by God.

I try to be patient with the “but we have to figure out what HRC/Dems did wrong, so we can correct our course in future” comments – most of which seem to be centered on “I told you so – you shoulda picked my guy” rather than any real concern about future political endeavours. But the truth is that as long as we are not focusing on how to fight GOP tactics, the integrity and honesty of our candidates will always be a fatal flaw rather than a vote-getter.

This is not to say that our Party and it’s members should never be criticized, or that election strategies shouldn’t be continually scrutinized, discussed, and altered when and where warranted. However, given our present circumstances, endlessly blaming ourselves and our Party for “what went wrong” is to ignore the fact that what’s wrong is not who we are, but who our opponents are, and what depths they will sink to in order to undermine us.

We lost to an ignorant, lying bigot whose entire life has been spent enriching himself by cheating and stealing from hard-working Americans, with a complete disregard for anyone’s welfare but his own. We lost to a self-aggrandizing, mentally unstable idiot who outsources the very jobs he claimed he would now protect. We lost to a bloviating, immoral bully who has deliberately encouraged xenophobia, misogyny, intolerance, and racism – and has promoted violence as a means to an end.

This was not a loss to a candidate with a superior strategy, a better “image”, a more worthy message. It was a loss to a man who – despite his obvious failings as a candidate and as a human being – had the support of a party that consistently undermines fair voting practices, controls the airwaves through the likes of Limbaugh and Alex Jones, and has learned to rely on the mainstream media to NOT do its job, all while looking the other way as our sworn enemy, Putin, promoted a puppet who will do his bidding as opposed to the bidding of the American people.

That said, it seems rather pointless to be arguing amongst ourselves about how an ad buy here, or a rally there, or a speech delivered in a different tone would have changed the outcome of this election. We were never up against a “better candidate”; we were up against a party that is without scruples. We were up against a party that will lie, cheat, steal in order to “win”, with absolutely no regard for the welfare of the country, or the well-being of its citizens.

Declaring that we shoulda-coulda won this election if only we’d done this, said that, chosen a different candidate, campaigned here rather than there, spent more time on this topic as opposed to that topic, is meaningless. The damage has been done, and we are now facing a pResident who stands for everything we as Democrats abhor, and that we as citizens will suffer the consequences of.

If you want to continue tinkering under the hood, so be it. Just remember that while you’re trying to figure out why the car stalled-out in the middle of the highway, the Republicans are busy constructing road-blocks, shutting down on-ramps, draining the gas tank, and devising ways to ensure we ain’t going nowhere, no how, no way.

Playing the Blame the Democrats Game is always fun for some. But it doesn’t move us forward an inch; it doesn’t solve the problems we face. And I, for one, am sick and tired of those who think that playing that game is going to get us anywhere. We have a clear and recognizable enemy that needs to be fought - and guess what? That enemy ISN'T us.

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Arrow 146 replies Author Time Post
Reply WE Are NOT the Problem (Original post)
NanceGreggs Dec 2016 OP
niyad Dec 2016 #1
CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2016 #2
FSogol Dec 2016 #3
stopbush Dec 2016 #4
madamesilverspurs Dec 2016 #5
asuhornets Dec 2016 #6
Fiendish Thingy Dec 2016 #7
Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #15
Garrett78 Dec 2016 #27
NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #21
Garrett78 Dec 2016 #30
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #32
Garrett78 Dec 2016 #33
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #34
maddiemom Dec 2016 #65
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #66
Gothmog Dec 2016 #105
treestar Dec 2016 #71
MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #78
Gothmog Dec 2016 #108
Fiendish Thingy Dec 2016 #45
NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #46
delisen Dec 2016 #52
gopiscrap Dec 2016 #144
Gothmog Dec 2016 #110
Fiendish Thingy Dec 2016 #128
Ghost OF Trotsky Dec 2016 #56
Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #69
LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #90
mountain grammy Dec 2016 #131
Berlin Vet Dec 2016 #106
Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #114
Berlin Vet Dec 2016 #115
GreenEyedLefty Dec 2016 #130
Gothmog Dec 2016 #117
stopbush Dec 2016 #102
Gothmog Dec 2016 #112
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #63
treestar Dec 2016 #70
Snarkoleptic Dec 2016 #8
Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #17
LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #9
ailsagirl Dec 2016 #13
gademocrat7 Dec 2016 #10
mac56 Dec 2016 #11
baldguy Dec 2016 #12
BlueCaliDem Dec 2016 #80
mcar Dec 2016 #14
The Wizard Dec 2016 #16
spooky3 Dec 2016 #18
volstork Dec 2016 #19
pnwmom Dec 2016 #20
Hekate Dec 2016 #22
bdamomma Dec 2016 #23
elmac Dec 2016 #24
True_Blue Dec 2016 #25
Cha Dec 2016 #26
Skittles Dec 2016 #28
Cha Dec 2016 #29
oasis Dec 2016 #88
spooky3 Dec 2016 #129
Cha Dec 2016 #132
Wounded Bear Dec 2016 #31
aikoaiko Dec 2016 #35
Garrett78 Dec 2016 #37
aikoaiko Dec 2016 #41
Garrett78 Dec 2016 #43
aikoaiko Dec 2016 #44
Garrett78 Dec 2016 #47
TCJ70 Dec 2016 #59
intheflow Dec 2016 #48
AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #82
Garrett78 Dec 2016 #84
AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #86
Garrett78 Dec 2016 #89
kaitcat47 Dec 2016 #36
brer cat Dec 2016 #38
dlk Dec 2016 #39
Akamai Dec 2016 #40
recount now Dec 2016 #42
intheflow Dec 2016 #49
coco22 Dec 2016 #51
Yurovsky Dec 2016 #53
Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #100
OrwellwasRight Dec 2016 #101
The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #107
kcr Dec 2016 #125
Hekate Dec 2016 #50
lunasun Dec 2016 #54
PearliePoo2 Dec 2016 #55
Berlin Vet Dec 2016 #111
secondwind Dec 2016 #57
zipplewrath Dec 2016 #58
Gothmog Dec 2016 #60
Mike Nelson Dec 2016 #61
uponit7771 Dec 2016 #62
maddiemom Dec 2016 #64
George II Dec 2016 #67
ffr Dec 2016 #68
horseshoecrab Dec 2016 #72
lunatica Dec 2016 #73
Paladin Dec 2016 #74
DesertRat Dec 2016 #75
lark Dec 2016 #76
MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #77
Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #103
The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #113
Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #116
ladym55 Dec 2016 #79
AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #81
pandr32 Dec 2016 #83
NastyRiffraff Dec 2016 #85
paulkienitz Dec 2016 #87
nolabels Dec 2016 #91
mtnsnake Dec 2016 #92
OrwellwasRight Dec 2016 #95
dionysus Dec 2016 #97
NeoConsSuck Dec 2016 #127
HenryWallace Dec 2016 #93
kcr Dec 2016 #124
JustAnotherGen Dec 2016 #145
WestCoastDem42 Dec 2016 #94
JCanete Dec 2016 #96
Scurrilous Dec 2016 #98
Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #99
NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #118
Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #120
NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #135
Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #137
NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #138
Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #139
NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #140
Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #141
NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #142
Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #143
Gothmog Dec 2016 #104
TheKentuckian Dec 2016 #109
BlueWI Dec 2016 #122
mountain grammy Dec 2016 #134
Midwestern Democrat Dec 2016 #136
lordsummerisle Dec 2016 #119
Jakes Progress Dec 2016 #121
raccoon Dec 2016 #123
MarkCross7 Dec 2016 #126
Amaryllis Dec 2016 #133
yurbud Dec 2016 #146

Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:07 PM

1. off to greatest with you, and, as always, spot on, nance.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:08 PM

2. Out of the park again, my dear Nance!

Even Joe Biden is wrong.

I could not agree more with you.

K&R

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:09 PM

3. K&R. n/t

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:10 PM

4. K & R. Bigly!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:14 PM

5. K & R & S

Kicked, recommended, and shared.

One thing: You wrote "... we are now facing a pResident who stands for everything we as Democrats abhor..."

It could also be said that "... we are now facing a pResident who stands for everything we as humans abhor..."

.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:22 PM

6. BINGO!!!!!!.N/T

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:22 PM

7. So, with all these factors that aren't the Democrats fault

And are largely beyond progressives' control, what is within the Democrats' control?

I've read your posts for years, but it seems the height of naïveté to suggest that, knowing almost all the things you mentioned in your post before the election, that there was nothing the Democrats could have/should have done differently.

If Democrats are to have a hope in 2018 and beyond, there needs to be an unrestricted, thorough moral inventory and examination of the Democratic Party inside and out.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:45 PM

15. True!

It is foolish in my opinion to ignore the anti-establishment sentiment in this years election. I agree Hillary should have and would have won, but for the shenanigans perpetrated by Republicans and Russians. However, Democrats have come to rely on corporate money and the quid pro quo's that come with it. That is directly against our interests and will be the cause for further erosion of Democratic office holders.

Our representatives represent Donors now, not their constituents.

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:16 AM

27. The incumbent re-election rate was even higher than normal this year.

And that's really saying something given how high it typically is.

That includes the re-election of strong proponents of the TPP and opponents of Wall Street reform. Meanwhile, candidates strongly backed by Sanders did worse than Clinton.

This was cultural, not economic. And not really anti-establishment either.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:52 PM

21. We're all ears.

So please enlighten us as to what the Democrats could have done to un-do the voter suppression legislation the Republicans have put in place and is now law?

Tell us how we could have launched enough progressive radio/TV stations to combat FOX-News, when the media is owned and operated by corporations that only see their next tax break coming from the GOP side of the aisle.

Explain to us why "good Christian voters" supported a pussy-grabbing pedophile over a candidate who promoted feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, and caring for the sick - and how it was OUR fault that they did so.

G'head - we're waiting for what you have to say.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:22 AM

30. The one thing I would say is more outreach to rural areas in purple states.

As Obama said, he did more outreach to rural areas of purple states. That enabled him to minimize the losses in those areas enough to carry the state.

Would that have been enough to get Clinton wins in WI, MI and PA? There's no way to know, but that would be my one major critique of the Clinton Campaign.

But she had a hell of a lot to overcome. Shelby County v. Holder decision of 2013 that made voter suppression much easier, the FBI, 25+ years of vicious attacks (much of it rooted in sexism), a white backlash that's been building for 8+ years, a pathetic media (obsessed with spectacle while promoting false equivalencies in the name of "balance", etc., etc., etc.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #30)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:55 AM

32. Yes, precisely the reason Obama said he would have been reelected if allowed to run... and he would have using his tried and true strategies.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #32)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:03 AM

33. Obama probably would have won even if his campaign was run just like Clinton's.

If for no other reason than the fact that the FBI wouldn't have interfered and Obama hasn't been victimized by 25+ years of hate.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #33)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:05 AM

34. Obama is a MASTER strategist... he woulda run rings around that Nazi bastard regardless.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #34)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:02 PM

65. Obama/Trump debate?

That would have been worth seeing! Not that Hillary did badly.

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Response to maddiemom (Reply #65)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:12 PM

66. I agree, not that Hillary did badly, but, let's be honest, she's no Obama, one of the greatest orators and genuine politicians in our lifetime.

I'm a little surprised that some of Obama's skills and strategies didn't rub off on Hillary, especially his ability to reach out to the middle class in rust-belt states in a way that didnt seemed forced.

Of course, Bernie sounded the warning, whose advice, for the most part, was criticized and ridiculed, rather than heeded. But, Hillary still should of won goin away.

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Response to maddiemom (Reply #65)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 06:51 PM

105. I am a former college debater and Hillary Clinton did great in the debates

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #32)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:40 PM

71. One thing I wish they had done

Obama bought 30 minutes of airtime for an appeal to voters.

We should have had one for Hillary. All that negative press - to have a program about Hillary's positives could have helped a lot. There seemed to be nobody out there doing that - talking up the good Hillary has done. It was all defensive.

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Response to treestar (Reply #71)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:07 PM

78. The HRC campaign definitely should have done this. Even her own ads were mostly about Trump. nt

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #30)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 06:55 PM

108. Nance-I volunteer a great deal of my time on voter protection efforts and I would like to know the

answer to your question. Fighting voter suppression is not an easy thing to do. Even with the favorable rulings of the 5th Circuit and the support of the DOJ, the Texas GOP did their best to suppress the vote in Texas. We made some progress in Harris County (which turned blue) only because we trained over 200 poll watchers who were there documenting violations of the court order on voter id.

Heck, I even helped get a trump supporter arrested from attempting to vote twice but even these efforts failed to stop the voter suppression efforts of the GOP.

If someone has any real suggestions, let me know

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:29 AM

45. Those are all things beyond the Democrats control

My post was in reply to your OP, which ignored the factors under the party's control, and instead focused on external factors beyond their control.

The most painfully (and I do mean painful, to acknowledge this truth) obvious factor under the Democrats' control was the strategically risky nomination of a candidate with the highest negative ratings of any Democratic nominee ever. A candidate who was known to be hated by a large enough segment of the electorate that, along with voter suppression, low millennial turnout, media complicity and other shenanigans, put the Electoral College within reach for Trump.

HRC was smeared for 30 years; as unfairly treated as she was, the reality is, it damaged her as a candidate, and reduced her chances of winning, making what should have been a landslide victory into the second ELectoral College/popular vote mismatch in 16 years.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #45)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:44 AM

46. Throughout the campaign ...

... HRC had millions of supporters (that's how she won the primary, BTW.) She had endorsements from her colleagues, activists, newspapers, and prestigious progressive organizations.

Despite all of the "things beyond the Party's control" - which were numerous and game-changing - she still won the popular vote.

It looks like HRC wasn't as "hated" as some would like us to believe.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #45)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 08:00 AM

52. Trump's negatives were higher. If Trump won the candidate with highest negatives won.


Maybe Clinton needed higher negatives.

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Response to delisen (Reply #52)

Thu Dec 29, 2016, 03:15 AM

144. Welcome to DU

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #45)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:01 PM

110. Sanders would have been a very weak general election candidate

What other choice. Sanders had no or little support from Jewish, African American and Latino voters who are the base of the party. Sanders got less than 43% of the vote in the primaries and did not represent the party as a whole. Sanders would have been a disaster as nominee. Sanders was rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino votes. Sanders did not come close to getting enough votes.
http://pleasecutthecrap.com/a-message-for-hardcore-bernie-stans/

Hillary Cinton won the nomination because of democracy. She received more than 57% of Democratic votes cast. Bernie Sanders virtually only won caucuses, which are the least democratic aspect of the primary process. And most of those he won only because she decided to save her money for the General election. He won very few primaries, except for his “home states” and Michigan and his clock was cleaned in virtually every other state that mattered. Demographically, he only won white liberals. The fact that YOU think he made it close, or only lost because of “Super Delegates” is a hallmark of your delusion. Bernie Stans largely didn’t seem to notice that she reached out to you repeatedly and you bit her hand off, making you more like Republicans than you should be comfortable with.

Sanders could not win the popular vote and was in the process only due to caucuses

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #110)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 09:41 PM

128. If Hillary had been convinced not run

The Dem's primary field would have been much larger- Biden, Warren, and many others. How would Trump have campaigned against them? They would have had a significant advantage in higher favorable ratings and less baggage, despite all the other factors mentioned in the OP.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 10:31 AM

56. Two things that I have heard

 

merely data points from associates and relatives, for what they are worth: Guns and sanctuary cities. Gun control, regardless of what one thinks of it, is a political loser, it just is, unless you live in a big, blue city. And sanctuary cities, while a good idea (allowing police to interact more effectively with people of undocumented status) seem to have gone way overboard, at least as being even petty criminals having protection from deportation.

Two issues that play well in SF, NY, Chicago - but we already easily win those areas and have nothing to gain from another 1 million votes in California - but are absolutely toxic to a lot of folks in areas where we *SHOULD* have appeal based on being for the working and underemployed classes.

Not saying what my opinion is on those, just saying that unless we forget additional gun restrictions and admit that once someone comes to be identified as a lawbreaker then immigration status becomes a big issue. we will have a much harder time in areas we really should win.

Personally, I don't care where someone's mother's womb was when they were born and I damn well know people who should NOT have guns.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:31 PM

69. You hear, but don't listen. Objectivity is something you should strive for.

I agreed that Hillary would have won but for the dirty tricks, i.e. voter suppression which was the single biggest factor in my opinion. Democratic politicians did very little to address Cross Check. This was not the first election it was used. Democrats have known about Cross Check and electronic voter fraud for some time but said very little and did nothing. At the very least they should be making a big stink about it until it is addressed. Democratic AG's should be investigating and filing charges over Cross Check and fighting to protect the security of our votes. The DNC should be leading the charge. Maybe with new leadership coming in they will.

As for the media, Democrats should be introducing bills to break up the media oligarchy and requiring the News to report the truth. Sure they will not pass, but the conversation must start somewhere. Fox News won an appeal overturning a judgment in Florida several years ago. The Court of Appeals said it was ok for Fox News to knowingly lie because they are not "News" but "Entertainment." The 4th Estate is now a wholly owned subsidiary (literally) of the Plutocrats. Democrats need to ignore Trump's tweets and in lock step start talking about these issues non-stop.

"Good Christian voters", what an oxymoron. In my experience, most Christians are not really believers. They use religion as a tool to manipulate people. Religious people are some of the most gullible of all. The Christians who actually believe abandoned Trump early if they supported him at all. They fall for the likes of Ted Cruz and the fat preacher from Arkansas who's name escapes me at the moment. If they are real Christians they would not be supporting a Republican agenda in the first place.

My actual point was that the Democratic Party broke away from their blue collar roots when the union money started to dry up during the Clinton years. Instead of fighting harder to help unions grow, they took them for granted and paid them lip service. They chose a new direction in taking corporate money. The problem there is that there are always strings attached, a quid Pro Quo to be given. In many cases it was to put up token resistance to things they should have fought tooth and nail against. They take money from the same donors as the Republicans in many cases. These corporations expect something for the money, and they have been getting it. It was not lost on most Americans that the Democrats and Obama did nothing to Wall Street for all of the fraud committed in causing the 08 crash except to bail them out and leave Main Street to fend for itself. Republican light has been a dismal failure except to keep the Democratic incumbents in office.

True or not, Hillary is associated with this. She accepted massive amounts of corporate money which gave the appearance that she had been co-opted by the big Donors. She did too many private fundraisers at wealthy Donor's houses, like the one in the Black Lives Matter video of the brave young woman holding the sign in the entry hall where Hillary was speaking. The young lady paid her money and was hissed at and told, "You don't belong here!" before she was escorted out without speaking to Hillary. Obama criticized Hillary for not attending enough of the kinds of events, such as fish fry's and county fairs where the majority of Democratic working class people would be. Money was more important than meeting large numbers of Democratic voters. When voters take the trouble to come see you at a large campaign rally, they tend to stick with you to the voting booth. Seeing your slick ad 20 times doesn't guarantee the same type of loyalty. The Democrats need to go populist and give up corporate money altogether. At this point there are a lot of us willing to donate all we can to get us out of the mess we are in! In one respect Trump/Pense will help a lot in that regard because things will be so bad a lot more people will come to realize they have been duped.

YOU, not WE, may be "all ears", but you will need a brain and objectivity if you wish to improve over what we just experienced. I don't have all of the answers as I am sure you will agree, but these are my opinions. I think we both want the same things, but we cannot keep doing what we have been doing because it is not working for many Democrats. Too many have seen through the curtain and realized that the corruption of our system from all of the cash swirling around Washington to both Parties. Trump was a weak candidate, albeit a unique attention grabbing (among other things) one at that. Had the Democratic Party not taken their base for granted it would not have been close despite all of the dirty tricks.

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #69)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:40 PM

90. Well said

Also, the Republicans have mastered the art of CREATING news. They create scandals, no matter how baseless, by repeating them over and over by coordinated efforts by many spokespersons and media over a long period of time. Democrats REACT to those stories in a defensive posture ad nauseam. Wash, rinse, cycle.

Why do the Democrats refuse to use this method (only with the truth behind them). Who cares if they look hysterical. The wingnuts look that way all the time and it works. We always want to be polite, glass half full. It sickens me the way Obama is treating the Trump takeover as some honorable thing. Obama is a wonderful man, with a great family, but he is also one that detests a fight...even if one is warranted. He is the President FFS. We are faced with a clear and present danger. I know he doesn't want to be remembered as the figurehead for the sore loser club of the Democratic party, but he is the President. And he has a great gift for communication. He, along with other prominent members of the Democratic party should be up on the soap box and not go down easy.

But HRC had one arm tied behind her, as does Obama with their membership in the Third Way, triangulation club. How can they fight against Republican cronyism, when they either strategically, or naively appoint similar right-leaning directors and heads of departments, and accept huge donations and speaking fees?

Republicans have moved from working with "the gentleman or woman from the other side" to full scale war over the last few decades. Democrats are still living in some Pleasantville reality. Republicans were seething after Bill Clinton not only survived their bows and arrows of fake scandal and "blown" up charges, but left office with a nice surplus and an relatively high approval rating. And meanwhile co-oped much of their platform with his three strikes, welfare reform, Glass-Steagall repealed, NAFTA, etc..It worked for a while, but what happened is that the GOP were all but forced to move even further right and meanwhile had a lifetime goal of destroying the Clintons and never ever allowing another one to become President again.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #90)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 10:50 PM

131. Yes

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #69)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 06:51 PM

106. You Nailed It.

Excellent observations. Bernie showed it is possible to run a campaign on small donations from millions of people. We have to get rid of the corporate money and work on issues that affect the poor and working class in America. We need to target every Republican that goes along with cutting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and use to to unseat them in 2018.

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Response to Berlin Vet (Reply #106)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:14 PM

114. Welcome to DU!

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #114)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:17 PM

115. Thank You

I've been lurking here since January after hearing Thom Hartmann mention DU so many times. I'm even thinking about posting something of my own.

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Response to Berlin Vet (Reply #106)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 10:24 PM

130. Clinton did this.

Clinton talked endlessly about issues that affected the poor and working class. My only critique is that she needed to talk *to* the basket of deplorables, not about them. This is what Obama did... and Trump did it too.

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #69)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:20 PM

117. The claim that Democrats did not try to stop voter suppression is sad

I am not sure what you did but I help set up the statewide hotline for a group led by Battleground Texas, the DNC Victory Council Program and the Clinton campaign. I also trained and supervised 200 plus poll watchers in Harris County. The DOJ, Marc Elias, the Victory Counsel program (which is different from the DNC Victory Council program) and a group of plaintiffs have sued like crazy to fight voter suppression.

Chad Dunn and the DOJ got an important ruling from the 5th Circuit on the voter id law with an opinion written by a former Baker Botts partner. Where possible lawsuits were brought. If a plaintiff could have been identified, the cross check program would have been challenged more directly. As is, Marc Elias got a similar program in Ohio enjoined with stricken voters allowed to vote. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/federal-court-rules-ohios-voter-purge-unconstitutional/story?id=42343068

Just weeks before the Nov. 8 election, a federal appeals court has ruled that Ohio’s method of purging names of inactive voters from voter rolls is unconstitutional.

Ohio, a battleground state in the presidential race, removed the names of tens of thousands of registered voters under what it calls its “supplemental process."

Under this controversial method, voters were taken off the registration rolls after six years of not voting, regardless of whether they remained eligible to vote.

As ABC News reported in June, many of those removed were from low-income neighborhoods or neighborhoods that tended to vote Democrat.

It is not accurate to say that efforts were not taken with respect to voter suppression. The poll watchers and statewide hotline helped stop some voter suppression including forcing Bexar county to use the correct signage as to the voter id law.

I have been volunteering on voter suppression efforts for a long time. It is not that easy to fight these efforts but I can assure that Democrats were fighting and achieved some successes. Harris County elected a Democrat as District Attorney for the first time in 36 years. There was still a great deal of voter suppression existing but I can assure you that it is being fought where it can be.

Fighting voter suppression is hard but can be fun. I help get a trump supporter arrested for trying to vote twice. You may want o volunteer in this area.

I can assure that if Marc Elias and the DOJ could have found proper plaintiffs there would have been a lawsuit on cross check.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 06:38 PM

102. Misogyny was a huge part of Hillary losing.

Had the Ds run a man with the same or even lesser qualifications of Hillary, they would have won.

Set everything else aside - misogyny was THE main factor in Hillary's defeat.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #102)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:02 PM

112. As the father of two daughters, I am so sad about this

You are correct.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 11:49 AM

63. The Primaries are over

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:37 PM

70. Disagree what we have to do is start paying attention

to the lower offices and get more Democratic held state legislatures. We hang onto this idea the POTUS can do it all. The gerrymandering happens letting the Republicans have these lower seats. Apparently it's not glamorous enough for most of us. Same with the federal House and Senate.

We need a Democratic House in 2018.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:23 PM

8. +1000

And where is the long-overdue investigation/legal action against Kobach et al and his "Interstate Cross-Check" program?

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Response to Snarkoleptic (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:47 PM

17. +10,000!!!!

What does it take to get an investigation into intentional interference with Americans Constitutional right to vote. Kobach and Co., set out to disenfranchise millions of voters and succeeded.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:26 PM

9. I can't rec this enough. THANK YOU!!!!

 

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Response to LaydeeBug (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:40 PM

13. +1000000000000

As always, right on target!!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:29 PM

10. K&R!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:31 PM

11. Thank you.

When you're playing against cheaters, it does no good to try and improve your game.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:35 PM

12. K&R

 

The people placing the blame on the Democrats - especially after the shit that went down during this election - never wanted the Democrats to win in the first place!

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Response to baldguy (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:27 PM

80. +10,000 for the truth in your post, BG! eom

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:41 PM

14. This a thousand times

Playing the Blame the Democrats Game is always fun for some. But it doesn’t move us forward an inch; it doesn’t solve the problems we face. And I, for one, am sick and tired of those who think that playing that game is going to get us anywhere. We have a clear and recognizable enemy that needs to be fought - and guess what? That enemy ISN'T us.


Why do so many purported Democrats insist on doing this?

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:46 PM

16. H.L. Mencken

“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:48 PM

18. Very well said. Thank you!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:49 PM

19. Nance, I'm being serious here--

have you ever considered running for office? We NEED someone like you; you are insightful, compassionate, passionate, and have a tremendous gift for cutting to the core of an issue.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:50 PM

20. THANK YOU!!!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Tue Dec 27, 2016, 11:57 PM

22. Kick baby, kick

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:03 AM

23. great post

we are not the problem, we are the solution.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:05 AM

24. I don't blame the Democrats one bit for losing this election

 

their message was spot on, the campaign was about as good as it gets. But, I will be quick to blame the Democrats if they work with sniffles instead of opposing him at every turn. If they bow down to the fascists in any way then the blame will lie squarely on their shoulders.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:07 AM

25. ITA 100%!

We just need to somehow stop the republicans from using dirty tricks to steal elections.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:08 AM

26. Thank you, Nance!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:18 AM

28. THANK YOU Nance

I am ESPECIALLY fed up with the Trump-voter apologists on DU - they make me SICK

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Response to Cha (Reply #29)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:10 PM

88. That statement is so true Cha.

It boils down to the basic mentality of deplorables, they are predisposed to believe what they want to believe.

That's why they stay stay glued to Fox News.

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Response to Cha (Reply #29)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 09:53 PM

129. Perfect! Thank you, Cha!

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Response to spooky3 (Reply #129)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 10:54 PM

132. You're Welcome, spooky!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:45 AM

31. K & R ......

Well put, Nance.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:10 AM

35. So you keep saying but there was a difficult primary for a reason



And it had little to do with Republicans.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #35)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:21 AM

37. The primary was essentially over by mid-March and arguably after Super Tuesday.

It was only remotely close due to caucuses, which are undemocratic.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #37)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:04 AM

41. Arguably what made it over in March was the hastily declared superdelegate votes...

...which are really undemocratic. Caucuses occur with the assent of the people, at least.

I'm sure you remember the 400+ declared superdelegate votes before any primaries or caucuses.



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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #41)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:21 AM

43. I don't think the superdelegates had much, if any, bearing on the results.

I seriously doubt anyone was going, "Wow, all of those superdelegates are endorsing Clinton, so I guess I should vote for her." And if this is such an anti-establishment climate, the superdelegates would have only served to motivate Sanders supporters.

Do away with superdelegates and caucuses. Make every primary open or semi-open. And Clinton wins in a landslide.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #43)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:27 AM

44. I don't think so at all. The superdelegate count was touted constantly by her surrogates and minions


It was "proof" that Bernie couldn't win even before the first vote. It was an obvious attempt to make any challenge by anyone look futile.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #44)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:46 AM

47. Even if it was touted as much as you claim, and I don't think it was...

...that doesn't mean it had any impact. In fact, as I said in my last post, it could have served as a motivation for Sanders supporters.

I'm reminded of all the people who claim Clinton said "it's my turn." Neither she nor her surrogates ever suggested that it was her turn or that she was owed the nomination. The only people you heard "my turn" from were her opponents in an effort to bash her.

Clinton had the support of the base (POC, women and urbanites), and that's why she won with ease.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #44)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 05:17 AM

48. "Superdelegate touting" could fall under "media complicity" in Nance's OP. n/t

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #43)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:48 PM

82. And yet, we were beaten about the head and neck with the 'results' and the 'insurmountable lead'

all through the primary, having included those numbers.

Do away with superdelegates and caucuses. Make every primary open or semi-open. And Clinton wins in a landslide.


That would have been awesome, but would not have had the result you expect.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #82)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:59 PM

84. The insurmountable lead had nothing to do with superdelegates.

Clinton had the support of the base (most notably POC and women) and she won a majority of the open primaries. If not for caucuses, the delegate count wouldn't have been even remotely close.

By mid-March, Clinton's lead in *pledged* delegates was insurmountable based on the demographic information we had at that point.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #84)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:03 PM

86. Historically incorrect.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #86)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:14 PM

89. No, it isn't. You can dig up my posts and the posts of many others making that very point.

The demographic information we had after Super Tuesday and again after the March 15 primaries made it abundantly clear that Clinton would end up with a clear majority of pledged delegates.

In fact, many of us were using delegate calculators in March to predict the final pledged delegate count. Myself and others ended up *very* close in our predictions. Not because of luck or some special talent. But because the writing was all over the wall. You simply had to read it.

Here's something I wrote in late March as just one of many examples: "Clinton will likely end up with around 2200 pledged delegates (give or take 100) and Sanders will likely end up with around 1800 pledged delegates (give or take 100). With 2026 constituting a majority."

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:19 AM

36. K & R & s

 

My pulse went down reading this.

Thanks.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:24 AM

38. K&R

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:29 AM

39. Well Said - We're Up Against a Party that Cheats to Win

Republicans cheat to win and they have been getting away with it for decades. Just think how different life in the U. S. would be if we actually had fair elections. The Republicans have gone a long way to destroying our democracy and will continue as long as we let them. Election post-mortems about the Democratic message or candidate's shortcomings are simply a waste of time.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:42 AM

40. Democrats have always been too reluctant to call out the Republicans for what they are--treasonous

 

and without empathy, willing to lie or do anything to ensure that their overlords win. They care not not about their own family members, the future of their localities, or even the livability of the earth.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:11 AM

42. what about the senate races?

 

The clinton campaign wasn't running in 2010 or 2014. Trump should not be such a problem if we controlled the house and senate. Republican control most state legislatures and governorships. None of this can be blamed on clinton campaign and needs to be addressed before 2018.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 05:29 AM

49. Why can't it be "both/and?"

You're absolutely right that all those factors were instrumental in getting Trump elected. However, to say the Democrats weren't their own problem... their complete dismissal of Sanders and his supporters, DWS' shenanigans throughout, the Clintons as most popular representations of the corporate wing of the DNC, these are things that the DNC needs to examine.

I always thought the Republicans were the ones who didn't think, who just reacted. Saying the Democrats are blameless is very reactionary and doesn't take into full account the many, many nuances in the party and in our country that made this election the clusterfuck that it was.

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Response to intheflow (Reply #49)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:41 AM

51. +1

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Response to intheflow (Reply #49)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 09:43 AM

53. It's a sure fire way to lose another close election...

its like the fucking boardroom at GM in the early '70s... yep, we're not the problem, just carry on, status quo, everything's great...

I won't deny outside factors played a role, and some of them really piss me off and I want my pound of flesh. But in the final analysis, we have to look at what was important, and what was not. What was controllable, and what was not. Focus on the important controllables and quit wasting to your fucking time boo-hooing about the unfairness of it all.

Get busy fixing the goddamn boat and quit bitching about who put the fucking holes in it.

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Response to Yurovsky (Reply #53)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 06:31 PM

100. you don't carry out a post-mortem by standing in the morgue going "the patient is SO NOT dead!"

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Response to Yurovsky (Reply #53)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 06:32 PM

101. Word.

Get busy fixing the goddamn boat and quit bitching about who put the fucking holes in it.


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Response to Yurovsky (Reply #53)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 06:54 PM

107. "Get busy fixing the goddamn boat and quit bitching about who put the fucking holes in it."

Right on.

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Response to Yurovsky (Reply #53)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 09:16 PM

125. But why would you ignore who was putting the holes in it? That makes no sense.

If you're going to use an analogy, at least have it make sense. So you fix your boat. If you ignore the hole maker, you're still going to have holes! If you insist that the problem must be your perfectly good, otherwise sea-worthy boat, even though there's some asshole over there with a gun shooting at it, you're still going to get holes. It can't be Dick Cheney over there with the gun! The problem MUST be that we didn't get the right kind of boat insurance! Get our agent on the phone, right now....

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:10 AM

50. KnR

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 09:52 AM

54. Quite right

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 10:19 AM

55. Good post! Here's a little factoid that blows my mind and disgusts me beyond words:

48% of eligible voters did NOT vote! How can this be? It's beyond pitiful. arrrghhhh


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Response to PearliePoo2 (Reply #55)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:02 PM

111. The Projections

I wonder how many people may have stayed home because they heard/saw/read that Hillary was going to win big in their state.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 10:32 AM

57. K&R!!!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 10:44 AM

58. Sorry, no.

Nice try, and it's not that those aren't factors. But we've been losing alot up and down the ticket for decades. There are a lot of factors in play here, and some are cultural. Pretending that they don't exist, or just blaming others isn't going to get us anywhere. To some extent what you are describing could be called "political realities". One has to work within reality, not in defiance of it.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 10:47 AM

60. K&R

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 11:04 AM

61. Great essay...

Too much attention is given to what Hillary did "wrong" and not to how the Republican Party "won" the electors and has been cheating for years.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 11:49 AM

62. +1, " The problem is gerrymandering, voter suppression, a complicit media, unverifiable vote counts"

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 11:58 AM

64. YES!

I'm reminded of John Kerry in 2004, not refuting the "Swift Boat" comments because they were "so ridiculous." A few of his men stood up to the swift boaters, but there was no Democratic organized effort. Then, of course, his later anti VN war actions. No real effort to counteract the implications by the Repugs. I thought I was disgusted with the party when they didn't make much effort to refute the stupid allegations about Al Gore's "lies" in 2000. Then the 2004 election came along, and the Dems REALLy disgusted me, a lifelong Democrat.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:22 PM

67. Excellent points, as usual. And one other factor was the candidate who forgot....

.....that the Convention was over, and he didn't get the nomination. So he set about on a course to take every opportunity (either directly or through his "surrogates" or his online cult) to denigrate the significance of Hillary Clinton's historic nomination, and it continues even today.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:27 PM

68. Let's not forget the Rudy Giuliani's in this. FBI was feeding him info illegally.

Now, what Putin did in directing the espionage against the United States was well known over at the Federal Bureau of Investigation. For dog’s sake the “pro-Trump “alt-right rogue” contingency at the Bureau appears to have given information about the Russian hacking to Rudy Giuliani. Back in July Giuliani boasted, exactly one day after Trump appealed to the Kremlin for campaign aid, that he was certain the Russians were on the job and had already “acquired” the stolen data.

According to an in depth investigative article on Huffington Post, one touted as an “Outline of What Increasingly Exhibits the Hallmarks of a Criminal Conspiracy,” it reports that traitor Giuliani “confessed on the Lars Larson radio program that current FBI agents working on the Clinton investigation had illegally leaked information to him about the Abedin emails before it became public and before Director Comey had been told of the emails, and, moreover, were intending to leak this information as a (in Giuliani’s words) pro-Trump ‘October Surprise,’ thereby establishing a political motive among a faction of the FBI.” - PoliticusUSA


STOLEN

ELECTION

STOLEN

FUTURE

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:41 PM

72. K&R!!!

Yes, indeed Nance Greggs!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:56 PM

73. My sentiment exactly

The only reason we lost was because we're not as bad or worse than the GOP and Donald Trump.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:58 PM

74. Trump won on the basis of a massive voter death wish, courtesy of Fox "News."

A candidate like Hillary Clinton doesn't get beaten by the likes of someone like Donald Trump, for any logical, preventable reasons. A whole segment of the voting public, cultivated by the right-wing media for decades, decided to throw the election to a lunatic---just for the hell of it. This crazy groundswell went undetected by the media and the pollsters until it was a done thing. Mass insanity, pure and simple.

You non-stop Democrat bashers, get it out of your systems and make it quick. We need to see if this country is salvageable or not.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:02 PM

75. k&r!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:02 PM

76. Thank you!

You are exactly right.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:04 PM

77. "Doesn't move us forward an inch" - Ok, so what does?

You've listed a plethora of things to blame besides our candidates, their campaigns, or the Party. But no solutions to those things.

How do you fix a complicit mainstream media, or counteract Fox News? From a media perspective, there are far more people willing to buy what the Right is selling than to buy what we are selling. We tried that before; Air America was a joke in the ratings. Something like 4-5 million idiots watch O'Reilly and Hannity every night; Rachel is getting what, a third of that?

Some of your fellow Democrats that you're "sick and tired of" for playing the internal blame-game may be doing so because people naturally want to take action when they lose. We want to "fix." But you've offered no fixes, just a list of enemies. I think you would get more people on board with the "outward-looking" blame game if you offered solutions.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Reply #77)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 06:47 PM

103. TIM KAINE/DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ 2020!



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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #103)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:11 PM

113. There's a winning team!

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #113)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:18 PM

116. Smells like victory to me! Especially since DWS can speak to "concerned soccer moms"

worried about all those dangerous medical marijuana-addled grannies who belong in prison.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:11 PM

79. Thank you, Nance

You said what I have been thinking and said it so well (like always). This was in no way a "normal" election. It was a circus freakshow with lies and cheating and voter suppression at every turn. When I hear that is was somehow the fault of the campaign or the message, I get angry. I was a volunteer for Hillary in Ohio. I know how hard the campaign was working day in and day out.

Maybe instead of fighting inside we should put our efforts into standing together and blocking the oncoming trainwreck of Cheetolini and the Rethuglican Congress.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:46 PM

81. Always been on the side of the working class? NAFTA. TPP. Repeal of Glass-Steagall.

Only 51 D's in the House opposed Gramm-Leach-Bliley's act to repeal Glass-Steagall. Only 51. We voted 3:1 on our own side of the line to pass a republican financial red meat wet dream, widely regarded as the catalyst for the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis.

So no, no we haven't and we are reckless beyond all reason to assume the working class sees us their ally, bar none. We're not. We should be, but we're not.

And there have been shots fired:

http://www.politico.com/story/2010/02/unions-bash-dems-warn-of-fallout-032781

Warnings we didn't heed.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/15/union-chief-threatens-to-back-independent-candidates-against-democrats-who-oppose-health-care-bill/?_r=0

http://www.ibtimes.com/teamsters-abandon-democrats-union-withholds-hillary-clinton-endorsement-after-twice-2121237

We're going to end up with an actual labor party splitting off from our party if we don't get our shit together and actually BE on the side of the working class.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:54 PM

83. I love the car stealing analogy!

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:03 PM

85. BAM!

This, especially this:

This was not a loss to a candidate with a superior strategy, a better “image”, a more worthy message. It was a loss to a man who – despite his obvious failings as a candidate and as a human being – had the support of a party that consistently undermines fair voting practices, controls the airwaves through the likes of Limbaugh and Alex Jones, and has learned to rely on the mainstream media to NOT do its job, all while looking the other way as our sworn enemy, Putin, promoted a puppet who will do his bidding as opposed to the bidding of the American people.


One of your best, Nance. And that's saying a lot.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:08 PM

87. It's not your right to vote that protects you from dictatorship:

it's your right to have your vote counted.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:48 PM

91. Fill the seat on the bus and bring your technology

The conservatives have spent trillions trying to render some voiceless (now you know why they hate your smart phone). I also love your lines

If you want to continue tinkering under the hood, so be it. Just remember that while you’re trying to figure out why the car stalled-out in the middle of the highway, the Republicans are busy constructing road-blocks, shutting down on-ramps, draining the gas tank, and devising ways to ensure we ain’t going nowhere, no how, no way.


As a truck mechanic for the last forty years i can tell you this is exactly what they do as far back as i can remember.

It doesn't matter if it's the fastest but more if it gets there.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 04:29 PM

92. Here we go again, another "feel good" post that refuses to face reality

and blames the entire mess on other people.

Yes, the Russian connection and Comey's announcement had impacts, but to suggest we did nothing wrong or that we made no major mistakes is nothing less than a total cop-out. Our candidate should have been far enough ahead of a scumbag like Trump to more than make up for any of those handicaps you cited.

It's so easy to put the entire blame upon other people for our losses while never facing the cold hard truth that there were too many people in this country who just did not like Hillary Clinton at all, and nothing, not even Trump, was going to change their minds about her, no matter how good a president she would have been.

Not only that, but the people running our campaign thought we had it all wrapped up and left us wide open to a last minute surge by the biggest con artist of the century. That was a monumental blunder.

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Response to mtnsnake (Reply #92)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 05:34 PM

95. I don't understand the motivation

for the "do everything just as we did" posts. Everyone has something to learn from a loss, including to be more confrontational about the forces we are fighting. That in itself is a lesson. But that's not the only lesson here. However, so many want to put their heads in the sand and pretend the Democratic Party is perfect. It's not. And it must adjust if ti wants to win and create change for the people.

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Response to mtnsnake (Reply #92)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 05:36 PM

97. Spot on!

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Response to mtnsnake (Reply #92)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 09:22 PM

127. Thank you for your posts

One of the rare honest posts in this thread.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 05:15 PM

93. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh, Wrong, but thanks for playing!

 

"I think what we need to focus on is the fact that Democrats are not the problem, nor are our policies, nor is our message. The problem is gerrymandering, voter suppression, a complicit media, unverifiable vote counts – and now we have the added components of Russian interference, and James Comey clearly having used his office for partisan purposes."

Wow!

Don't ever change; your perfect the way you are! I understand, you need a little more time to cry in your beer!

PS: Don't worry about that sound you hear to your left, its just the rest of us (off somewhere else) unashamedly fighting for progressive issues without the muzzle incremental attainability.

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Response to HenryWallace (Reply #93)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 09:05 PM

124. I think the ones who aren't crying in their beer right now

think this is all a game, and that's why they don't get it.

Don't bother with your buzzer sounds. I don't think we're on some game show.

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Response to HenryWallace (Reply #93)

Thu Dec 29, 2016, 12:53 PM

145. Re this

its just the rest of us (off somewhere else) unashamedly fighting for progressive issues without the muzzle incremental attainability.

Are you running for office? Do you have an Act Blue Page? I'm giving money to school board, town council, county clerk elections, etc. etc.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 05:26 PM

94. AGREE!

Could not agree more with your observations. Nicely stated, thank you.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 05:35 PM

96. If our party isn't fighting the MSM, we are the problem. nt

 

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 06:01 PM

98. K & R

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 06:25 PM

99. Hmmm. Maybe "2016 Post-Mortem" isn't the best forum for you, then.

Because - and this bears repeating - despite all you say, we still lost the election.

And it's also worth noting that the same people who insist there must be no criticism of Hillary Clinton or her campaign or its strategists, seem to have no problem weaving elaborate narratives about how Bernie and his "Bros" damaged her irreprably by having the temerity to mount a vigorous primary challenge.

Looking forward, what can we do better, how can we appeal to more voters? Even those relatively straightforward and obvious questions seem to piss a contingent here, off. We aren't supposed to consider how to appeal to any Trump voters, anywhere, even the Rust Belt, because fuck those people and here's a long list of everything that's wrong with them since they voted for DT. Fine, I can live with that.

So someone asks "how can we expand our voter base"- my perfectly logical suggestion to that is, okay, we have the Hillary voters, we say "screw you" to the Trump voters- who is left? If you're going by the people who actually went to the polls, by my math the next-largest slice is the Gary Johnson voters. Why not look there? The GOP will undoubtedly skew towards authoritarianism, like they always do, which I should think would leave us a big opening among voters who support the bill of rights, personal freedom, choice, etc. Obviously we aren't likely to get a ton of traction among the hard-core econo-Randroids, but the rest of them?

By reminding people that real progressives support personal freedom, the right of consenting adults to make their own decisions about their own bodies, ending the drug war/fully embracing marijuana legalization, marriage equality, opposing things like censorship of what consenting adults can watch or read.. pushing back against noxious and intrusive theocratic laws- really, it seems a natural fit.



But that suggestion seems to get stony silence, or worse. It really seems to bother a few people, even. Not sure why. Hmmmmm.

After people get through "Greens are deluded assholes, Trump Voters are racists, and Libertarians are just idiot Republicans who smoke pot har har hyuk"... who, exactly, do they think is left besides those of us already on board?

The point is, arguing "what we've been doing is perfectly fine and how dare you suggest there is any room for improvement"- seems a bit, um, unrealistic. We can't fix Gerrymandering, or voter suppression for that matter, without winning some elections first, either.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #99)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:40 PM

118. Who are the people ...

... insisting there must be NO criticism of Hillary Clinton, her campaign, or its strategists? I've not seen that.

What I have seen is people who want to do nothing but criticize. They are usually the same people who say, yeah, yeah, we had all of these problems going in, and then there was Comey and the Russians - but let's forget all of that, and figure out how we can stick the entirety of this loss on Hillary.

And a lot of those people are Bernie supporters who still can't get over the fact that Bernie lost the primaries, big time - and yet insist THAT loss was everyone else's fault, never his own.

"The point is, arguing "what we've been doing is perfectly fine and how dare you suggest there is any room for improvement"- seems a bit, um, unrealistic."

Can you point out where I said that?

My point here is that there's a BIG difference between saying "let's improve what we can" and saying "the Party is wrong about everything" - and there's been a lot more of the latter.



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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #118)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 08:25 PM

120. Well I fall somewhere in between those two extremes, I guess.

Like I said- I have concrete suggestions for how we can broaden our appeal, given that we're going to have an AG sessions and no doubt a renewed push from the moral majority types to wage war on media, ungodliness, nekkid bodies on cable, and our so-called "culture in crisis".

Recommit to a personal freedom agenda, for starts. You want smaller government? Fine, keep it out of the bodies, bloodstreams and bedrooms of consenting adults.

As for criticism, I don't see much point in criticizing Hillary Clinton personally. We as a party made the decision to run her, and my own take is that from the convention onward, she was an exemplary candidate. What I perceived as many of her weaknesses prior to that, she addressed, and then some. In retrospect, however, if reports from Democratic field officies are to be taken at face value, strategy-wise there may have been some serious lapses from her team.

Either way, though, what's done is done.

Are there people here who never have anything good to say about the Democratic Party in general? Sure.

(It's worth noting that there are people here who do nothing but criticize Bernie Sanders, too, or spend all day trying to come up with cute ways to insult his supporters or appellate "bro" onto words. There are also people here who do nothing but complain about DU and the other people on DU, which begs the question as to what it is they get out of this place)

Although I've gotten accused of that- "bashing the Democratic Party" - just for specifically calling DWS out on working with Sheldon Adelson, for fuck's sake, in her quest to ensure that cancer-ridden grannies in Florida would keep getting sent to prison for eating pot brownies.

She (and Adelson) lost that battle, and to my mind it's also maybe worth asking whether her misguided crusade against all things weed hurt our chances in a state where measure 2 ended up passing with over 70% of the vote. Since this forum is the post-mortem, and all.

But Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and Hillary Clinton for that matter, are only part of the Democratic Party. They are not synonymous with it. Now is the time for us to decide who we are and what we stand for. Personally, I'm looking to leaders like Gavin Newsom, who represent a new generation, a different geographic focus, and who haven't been afraid to lead on issues like cannabis or marriage equality.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #120)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 11:17 PM

135. The thing is ...

… the Democrats have always been on the side of personal freedoms – and we have never wavered away from that.

WE are the people who want to raise the minimum wage, provide affordable healthcare, protect and strengthen social safety nets. WE fight for women’s rights, minority rights, LGBT rights, better care for the disabled, better care for our vets.

And yet, we lost to a man who is AGAINST all of the above. We lost the votes of people who have had their jobs outsoured to a man who has been outsourcing jobs for decades. We lost the votes of people who thought Michelle was an unfit FLOTUS because she goes sleeveless to a man whose wife was a nude model. We lost the votes of people who claim to be “Christians” to a self-proclaimed pussy-grabber – who was touted as “chosen by God” by their “Christian” leaders.

We lost the votes of people who want someone in the WH who “knows’ their day-to-day financial struggles to a billionaire who doesn’t pay his debts to people exactly like them. We lost the votes of people who think their tax burden is too onerous to a billionaire who doesn’t pay taxes.

IOW, we lost the votes of the very people whose side we’re on, and have always been on. And it’s not like we don’t make that apparent every election.

What’s the answer to turning this around? If I knew, I wouldn’t be posting on DU – I’d be living it up in DC as the best-paid political strategist in the country.

But I have to add one thing: The constant cries of the Bernie supporters are – to put it nicely – less than helpful. I can assure there would be a lot less criticism of him and his supporters if they would stop bringing him up in every thread as though he and he alone is the great saviour of the party – and that would be the party he refuses to be a member of.

Bernie lost the primaries; he was not the nominee. It’s time people acknowledged that fact and moved on. It’s time for his supporters to recognize that his message didn’t resonate with the majority of Democrats, and that HIS loss was not the result of some vast conspiracy to silence him or his followers.

If we are to move forward at all as a party, if we are to focus on the future and any hopes of achieving anything, we must do so as a united force. In short, we can’t move forward while some Bernie supporters are clinging to our ankles yelling “but it should have been MY guy who ran, and I’m not letting anyone go anywhere until all of you acknowledge that.”

It’s time to pick a side. Either you’re with the Dems, or you’re more interested in whining about how badly done-by your preferred candidate was. It is truly sad that some people would rather re-fight the primaries ad nauseum than accept the fact that “their guy” wasn’t “THE guy”.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #135)

Thu Dec 29, 2016, 12:40 AM

137. I am sure we agree on some things, and disagree on others.

Particularly in terms of who is sowing more division.

Some bernie supporters cant let go, some Hillary supporters cant either. Spinning elaborate narratives about how if she had only had a basically uncontested primary field, she would have emerged stronger- that doesnt help us unify, either. Personally, I think it would have been a disaster, the media would have ignored the stagnant D side entirely. And as Obama himself said, Sanders helped Hillary to be a better candidate.

For every ankle-grabbing Berniebro, there's also a righteously aggreived Hillary person who is holding up the "where to now" train until everyone acknowledges how profoundly wronged Hillary was, how she was the victim of a singularly monumental injustice which dwarfs all other considerations around the post-election conversation. And yeah, she wasnt treated fairly. But you know what? she - and her campaign - also made mistakes. The party apparatus made mistakes. i can be a loyal democrat and want a party chair who isnt debbie wasserman schultz, who doesnt work with sheldon adelson to kill medical marijuana reform.

Its not about Hillary or Bernie anymore, that's the bottom line. Neither is going to run in 2020, nor should they. Sanders lost the primary, as you say.. and, popular vote or no, Hillary lost the general. There are probably lessons there, for all of us.

As for time to pick a side, surely you're not talking to me. I've always been on the same side. And yes, certainly MY definition of what constitutes Democratic and Progressive values includes things like choice and personal freedom. Imagine my surprise when I run into folks here who oppose reproductive rights. Or think censorship -of anything from sex and nudity to 'blasphemy'- is okay. Or who, like DWS, think granny should be behind bars for smoking a joint in her own living room.

Unfortunately, in that vein, while we should be on the side of personal freedom, we haven't always been. We have had our share of drug war enablers and architects, for instance. There has been some progress, in that regard, but I think that is an excellent example of an area where we are overdue for some soul searching.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #137)

Thu Dec 29, 2016, 01:27 AM

138. It's always about Bernie.

Bernie LOST. The majority of Democrats REJECTED him and his "message". It is TIME to move on.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #138)

Thu Dec 29, 2016, 01:59 AM

139. You seem a bit obsessed with that man.

Like I said, he's not running in 2020, and neither is Hillary. We sorely, desperately need new leadership. Generationally, ideologically and geographically.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #139)

Thu Dec 29, 2016, 02:01 AM

140. I'm not the one ...

... who keeps bringing him up.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #140)

Thu Dec 29, 2016, 02:01 AM

141. Bringing who up?

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #141)

Thu Dec 29, 2016, 02:14 AM

142. Apologies.

I thought I was responding to someone else.


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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #142)

Thu Dec 29, 2016, 02:16 AM

143. That's alright.

No worries.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 06:48 PM

104. Democrats and Hillary Clinton were not the problem

Great post Nance. I am tired of people blaming Hillary Clinton and the Democratic party

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 06:56 PM

109. Flat out willfully delusional. See Congress. See State Legislatures. See Governor's Mansions

You can't govern the country with just the Presidency. Winning it is better than the alternative but Clinton being inaugurated in a few weeks would just be brakes to be pumped we are in terrible shape. Like pre Depression piss poor so no everything isn't basically okay. If if Clinton won we'd just be slightly less fucked.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #109)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 08:55 PM

122. This.

Popular vote win or not, the results of this election are nothing to brag about if you're a Democrat. It's a shame to have lost the presidency, but the failure to take the Senate and the steady losses at the statewide level are not to be ignored. Short coattails in my opinion are another symptom of a presidential campaign and a party brand that needed and still needs improvement. Since Clinton may not be likely to run for public office again, the big question is what do Dems do now as an outvoted opposition party across most of the country and in every branch of government in Washington.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #109)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 11:14 PM

134. Agree.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #109)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 11:28 PM

136. 100% correct - but good luck trying to get some on this board to admit it

The rationalizations and excuses well isn't quite empty yet - I only wonder how long our present circumstances can continue without any improvement (or God forbid, get even worse) before that well finally runs dry and the party's forced to acknowledge that the present strategy of running up the score in the cities and on the coasts isn't working.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:44 PM

119. K&R n/t

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 08:38 PM

121. K&R Very clear and spot on.

If you're not one of those with a dozen theories to deflect guilt.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 09:04 PM

123. Excellent post, and you are so right. nt

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 09:19 PM

126. The gerrymandering has been there since 2011. The Democrats had 5 years to so something about it.

The Democratically appointed justice depart sat on it thumbs for 8 years. They also know the Republican have been dropping minorities off the voting rolls (with one or another version of cross check) since 1999. That is a long time to stand idly by.

It's time the Democrats stop doing this:




At some point you have to acknowledged you are part of the problem.

Also the justice department could have put a banker or torture or two in jail. A few bankers in jail would be fewer robber barons in the Trump Cabinet. And no Trump saying torture works.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 11:03 PM

133. Yes, yes, yes!

I got very involved in election reform after the 2004 election theft. Why has it been so hard to get Dems to take this seriously? Greg Palast Gregpalast.com, Brad FRiedman http://bradblog.com/?p=11973 and many others have been screaming about this for at least 12 years. Every time I got a request for donations, I would email back and say not until you take election fraud seriously (NOT voter fraud; it's not the voters doing the fraud- that is just a ploy to pass restrictive voter ID laws.)

This is why it's so hard to see the endless analysis of what we should have done differently and what we need to do differently next time with no mention of voter suppression, voting machine issues, vote counting issues, etc. And this year we add Russian involvement, which goes far beyond hacked emails and certainly merits an investigation into potential treason, but this should have happened long before the election:
Is Donald Trump Connected to the Kremlin
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/is-president-elect-donald-trump-connected-to-the-kremlin_us_582786c1e4b0852d9ec217ba

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Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)

Thu Dec 29, 2016, 01:21 PM

146. we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Also, the same pols who betrayed key segments of base...

didn't go all out to block voter suppression, voting machines that can easily be rigged, and on and on.

and while Democrats can be hard-hitting during election season, the rest of the time, they seem more concerned about not hurting Republicans feelings than blocking their destructive policies.

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