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busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 01:45 AM Mar 2014

Wake the fuck up everyone.

These right wing uber nationalists groups which are trying to overthrow a dually elected govt. are nothing but Tea Baggers on Steroids.. Sure Yanukavych and his cronies are corrupt and need to be cleaned out, but thats what fucking elections are for.. And the E.U. which is trying to court the Ukraine, perhaps Yanukavych is looking for a deal which does not include austerity cuts which you just know have to be part of the EUs deal..

In the meantime I suggest everyone reads up on these racist nationalist scum bags...
But don’t try to get anything from the MSM..Who are about 2 weeks behind on the latest developments.

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-right-sector-militants-210/

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
1. Wrongo. Everyone who believes Russian propaganda needs to wake the fuck up.
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 01:52 AM
Mar 2014

Russia has ZERO pretext to invade, the government is less than a week old, and Putin desperately needs the new government to seem undesirable and illegitimate because he can't afford revolution in his own country and doesn't want sympathy for Ukraine as he crushes and subjugates them again. Jesus fucking Christ, I am so tired of this propaganda bullshit.

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
9. Guys like you who are determined just to hear and read what they want to hear are
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:26 AM
Mar 2014

just incomplete..

This is an article from the Socialist Worker by Alan Maas and Lee Susta:
As Ames makes clear, the leaders of the opposition to Yanukovych--those now in power in Kiev--are every bit as complicit in the corrupt system presided over by the oligarchs, with all their factions and rival political allegiances. The popular uprising of the Maidan gave them the chance to pose as champions of democracy--but they are anything but, and they are already showing as much.

For example, until Russia's intervention in Crimea, the first order of business for new Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk was pursuing a financial bailout to replace the aid withdrawn by Russia. That means going to the International Monetary Fund, which will demand the usual austerity measures as a condition of making any loans.

In other words, as an alternative to continued subservience to Moscow, the new rulers of Ukraine are offering a future of subordination to European economic interests instead. Promises of prosperity are an illusion--as the populations of Greece, Spain and other countries hit by the eurozone crisis know well.

Yatsenyuk is a leader of the Fatherland party, along with Yulia Tymoshenko, among others. Their corruption was laid bare in the years after the Orange Revolution--for them to now claim leadership of a movement demanding democracy and improved livelihoods for ordinary people in Ukraine stinks of hypocrisy.

The stench gets worse when you look at the connections of the new rulers of Ukraine to the far right. As one of his last acts as president, Viktor Yushchenko honored as a "Hero of Ukraine" Stepan Bandera, a collaborator with the Nazis during the Second World War, responsible for carrying out the Nazi genocide against Jews and the mass murder of Poles who resisted ethnic cleansing in Western Ukraine.

This enthusiastic embrace of ultra-nationalism by mainstream parties set the stage for the development of those even further to the right--like Svoboda (Freedom), with its ties to the European far right. In parliamentary elections in 2012, Svoboda won 10.4 percent of the popular vote and the fourth-largest number of seats among national political parties.

Within the mass mobilization of the Maidan movement, the far right had a very high profile--particularly among those who defended the occupation from police attack. These self-defense units were reportedly controlled by the Right Sector, an extra-parliamentary grouping with a disciplined command structure and explicitly fascist ideology.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

THE PROMINENCE of right-wingers on the speakers' platform and of the far right among the protesters led some on the left to dismiss the Maidan movement entirely. But the so-called "leaders" of the Maidan among the opposition parties found it increasingly difficult to control the uprising. For example, Vitali Klitschko, another opposition leader, was booed in a speech at the occupation after a power-sharing arrangement was announced that would have kept Yanukovych in office.

As for the presence of the Right Sector and other far-right forces, the Russian Socialist Movement's Ilya Budraitskis, in his interview with the German magazine Marx21, insisted that the left had

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
13. In a scenario of shades of grey and complexity.
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 12:00 PM
Mar 2014

In a scenario where all available information beyond what we can observe and discern ourselves from first principles...which is not much, frankly. In a scenario where there is no non-bad faction.

That finally is one position I can simply reject.

Isolationism is a moral evil. I'm reminded of that frequent misquote of Edmund Burke:

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.”


What Burke actually said is actually more situationally relevant:

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."


Great evils are never not everybody's concern.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
15. Yes...
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 06:48 PM
Mar 2014

...... we've done a good job of deciding what is good and evil and sticking our bombs into it.

You might be easily fooled, but I am not. The US has not fought in a just war since WWII. We don't need to stick our noses into this regardless of how much YOU think you know who is right and who isn't and how military intervention would turn out.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
16. Who said anything about military intervention?
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 06:58 PM
Mar 2014

I said that your position of "none of our business" was contemptable and that we had an obligation to pursue the moral good and not sit idly by as Russia encroaches upon its neighbors.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
5. I would suggest everyone read this:
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:07 AM
Mar 2014

This was originally posted by frazzled earlier this evening.

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/mar/01/ukraine-haze-propaganda/

Ukraine: The Haze of Propaganda
Timothy Snyder

From Moscow to London to New York, the Ukrainian revolution has been seen through a haze of propaganda. Russian leaders and the Russian press have insisted that Ukrainian protesters were right-wing extremists and then that their victory was a coup. Ukraine’s president, Viktor Yanukovych, used the same clichés after a visit with the Russian president at Sochi. After his regime was overturned, he maintained he had been ousted by “right-wing thugs,” a claim echoed by the armed men who seized control of airports and government buildings in the southern Ukrainian district of Crimea on Friday

Interestingly, the message from authoritarian regimes in Moscow and Kiev was not so different from some of what was written during the uprising in the English-speaking world, especially in publications of the far left and the far right. From Lyndon LaRouche’s Executive Intelligence Review through Ron Paul’s newsletter through The Nation and The Guardian, the story was essentially the same: little of the factual history of the protests, but instead a play on the idea of a nationalist, fascist, or even Nazi coup d’état.

In fact, it was a classic popular revolution. It began with an unmistakably reactionary regime. A leader sought to gather all power, political as well as financial, in his own hands. This leader came to power in democratic elections, to be sure, but then altered the system from within. For example, the leader had been a common criminal: a rapist and a thief. He found a judge who was willing to misplace documents related to his case. That judge then became the chief justice of the Supreme Court. There were no constitutional objections, subsequently, when the leader asserted ever more power for his presidency.

In power, this leader, this president, remained a thief, but now on a grand, perhaps even unsurpassed, scale. Throughout his country millions of small businessmen and businesswomen found it impossible to keep their firms afloat, thanks to the arbitrary demands of tax authorities. Their profits were taken by the state, and the autonomy that those profits might have given them were denied. Workers in the factories and mines had no means whatsoever of expression their own distress, since any attempt at a strike or even at labor organization would simply have led to their dismissal.

2naSalit

(86,565 posts)
6. Interesting how
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:18 AM
Mar 2014

when we do it, all's good but when anyone else takes action that we can spew propaganda to get the hate on, it warwarwar!!

Fuck that.

From what I can tell, and I have been looking at sources from many places, it appears that Russia is interested in keeping their one and only warm water port open and in their hands. It is a Russian exterior base much like the ones we have in more countries than I can name. I also contend that some translations are suspect for the sake of propaganda from the west.

Look, anyone who advocates that a country should just roll over on its back and spread 'em for the IMF dollar is not paying attention to (or sadly, blatantly ignorant of) the reality of world politics and what a bunch of lying assholes the western countries who use the IMF funds as a bludgeoning stick for austerity really are.

Observe how this is done:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=confessions%20of%20an%20economic%20hitman&sm=1

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
7. You need to wake the fuck up?
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:30 AM
Mar 2014

It seems you are looking at this thru your own sleepy eyes?

This was a popular revolution which was peaceful up until the anti-democratic leader sicced the police on them. Then the violence started. And the people finished it off by standing up for their rights. Then crooked leader fled for his life. That piss-ant weeny little shit fled his country because his gig was up.

Those are the facts we know. The rest of it is just mouthing off. Kerry is going to go there and give some encouragement to the new leaders. Is there a better man than him to do so? If you think there is someone better, speak up.

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
10. Perhaps you should explore this complicated issue with a little more diligence.
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:48 AM
Mar 2014

From one source
The Socialist Worker.Org.
By Alan Maas and Lee Sustar..

Putin's military intervention in Ukraine is a naked power play--the latest in a long list of Russian imperialist adventures. But the corrupt, right-wing parties now in charge of the Ukraine government will try to use the seizure of Crimea to further whip up nationalism--while failing to offer a genuine alternative that speaks to working people's needs.

Full Link..
http://socialistworker.org/2014/03/03/threat-of-war-hangs-over-ukraine




 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
11. Putin invaded? No.
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:58 AM
Mar 2014

He shot up the citizens? No.

It's been 10 days. What is he waiting on?

Maybe he won't do much of anything. And if the Ukraine puts up another crook as president, the people will run his ass off too. Like we should have done to bush.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
8. Russia doesn't want Ukraine to continue on their path towards the European Union.
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:32 AM
Mar 2014

Russia is not a member but all of Ukraines neighbor countries are. WW2 is over Putin.

European Union member countries http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/index_en.htm

EU and Ukraine dealings- http://eeas.europa.eu/ukraine/index_en.htm

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