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Thu Nov 6, 2014, 12:56 AM

Election stats and MSNBC: Black Voters Were ‘Offended’ by Dems Running from Obama

Link 1: Election results.

http://sos.iowa.gov/elections/pdf/2014/primary/statestats.pdf

Note that dems didnt show up. The GOP outnumbered us better than 2-1. Why? No, really 2 to 1!!! Why?



Link 2: Interesting link that additionally supports a low turnout.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/msnbc-guest-black-voters-were-offended-by-dems-running-from-obama/

It is amazing to me that very few dems wanted to be seen with Obama. They kept saying this election was not about Obama. One even said she was going to eliminate the ACA. Ummm, No it wasn't about Obama, but YES it was!! He is a DEMOCRAT, not a republican!!! And it just so happens that this guy happens to be the President of the United States, and has put his ass on the line many times during his tenure to date, to keep democracy working in this country. So how can you distance yourself from this gem? He's there for the taking. You would have to be a total idiot not to use him as an ally. Well, that's exactly what they did, and they paid the price of a total disaster.

IE: I never heard anything about how, he as a democratic president, has stood by our democracy, making this a better country. He's been awesome in my opinion. I mean, the ACA, gas prices, Wall Street, recovery from 750k jobs a month, and the list goes on and on. There was NOTHING said. Nothing!! The electorate never knew what the dems stood for. I wouldn't show either, even though I did vote.

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply Election stats and MSNBC: Black Voters Were ‘Offended’ by Dems Running from Obama (Original post)
SmittynMo Nov 2014 OP
Lithos Nov 2014 #1
calimary Nov 2014 #2
LeftInTX Nov 2014 #13
SmittynMo Nov 2014 #30
leftyladyfrommo Nov 2014 #26
calimary Nov 2014 #35
leftyladyfrommo Nov 2014 #36
liberalmike27 Nov 2014 #3
bravenak Nov 2014 #4
karmaqueen Nov 2014 #5
bravenak Nov 2014 #6
Major Hogwash Nov 2014 #19
bravenak Nov 2014 #20
Major Hogwash Nov 2014 #21
bravenak Nov 2014 #22
a kennedy Nov 2014 #29
LawDeeDah Nov 2014 #8
MattSh Nov 2014 #18
alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #7
TroyD Nov 2014 #23
bravenak Nov 2014 #25
mikekohr Nov 2014 #24
bravenak Nov 2014 #27
mikekohr Nov 2014 #28
Sunlei Nov 2014 #9
Lugnut Nov 2014 #10
LeftInTX Nov 2014 #11
ErikJ Nov 2014 #12
SHRED Nov 2014 #14
freshwest Nov 2014 #15
world wide wally Nov 2014 #16
Stallion Nov 2014 #17
Paladin Nov 2014 #31
ellie Nov 2014 #32
SmittynMo Nov 2014 #33
Dawgs Nov 2014 #34
smorkingapple Nov 2014 #37
Name removed Nov 2014 #38
DCBob Nov 2014 #39
ravik Nov 2014 #40
SmittynMo Nov 2014 #41

Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 01:04 AM

1. How could it not be about Obama?

The underlying narrative was always about "impeachment"

L-

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 01:17 AM

2. I was offended too.

I'm almost glad they lost. Fucking turncoats!

They didn't even TRY to help voters remember the FACTS as opposed to the Pox Noise spin. You'd think he'd done NOTHING...

Quoting SmittynMo here:
"I never heard anything about how, he as a democratic president, has stood by our democracy, making this a better country. He's been awesome in my opinion. I mean, the ACA, gas prices, Wall Street, recovery from 750k jobs a month, and the list goes on and on. There was NOTHING said. Nothing!! The electorate never knew what the dems stood for. I wouldn't show either, even though I did vote."

There's so damn fucking much "gummnt baaaaaad" and ABSOLUTELY NO ATTEMPT to educate voters into why government is not only NOT bad but necessary and needed for MILLIONS of Americans who don't have a fancy-ass big name or big corporation or big bank account speaking for them. MILLIONS of Americans need government help just to get by. MILLIONS of Americans need government assistance and intervention when they cannot do for themselves or speak for themselves or fight for themselves. It was INFURIATING to see too many quisling Dems responding to "gummnt baaaaaad" by saying "uh, er, um, well, yeah, I guess so..."

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Response to calimary (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:52 AM

13. Your's is the first post that has made feel better!!!

They deserved to lose. (For some reason it makes me feel better)

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 08:30 AM

30. TY and you're welcome

Last edited Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:38 AM - Edit history (1)

I try to keep it real, and to the point. The truth hurts sometimes.

The dems totally failed America. What amazed me was the fact that the GOP showed in big numbers to support the lies, obstructionism, and hatred. I mean, WTF!!!

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Response to calimary (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:53 AM

26. I was offended,too

I hate the way Obama has been treated.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:37 PM

35. Preach it!

I'm just so damn disgusted at the double standard at work here. I'm a mom and an old nag so I guess I qualify for being around long enough to be able to remind everybody about the context, and what happened, and what I'm old enough to have lived through. I think if we are indeed to play the "blame game," then we might as well be 100% accurate about it, so our assertions are true and reliable and provable. If we remember what happened, then we can see trends of behavior appearing. I find that doing this kind of decidedly amateur armchair analysis helps me size things up in ways that make sense. It helps show trends developing. Trends of behavior that prove out what we say. Trends like tracking the convergence of extremist "Christianity" with anti-environmentalism, and you watch it unfold through the decades, or the presidencies, or the movements, where you have people who are predisposed not to believe science because they're the take-it-on-faith crowd. Because God. Because God said so. And science is human and fallible and only God is perfect.

I am MOST distressed to watch this trend of utterly abandoning this president.

I am OUTRAGED at times, especially when I recall the last decade, the decade of bush/cheney, and compare it to now. The "sanctity" of bush/cheney was force-fed to us by CON infrastructures from the political arena to broadcasting and publishing and other machinery that can be used to drive a message. We were lambasted as traitors and Saddam-lovers and al Qaeda lovers and Sore Losermen as well as the usual boring "commies" and "fascists" and "socialists" epithets. If you were critical of bush/cheney you were un-American, a traitor, and an enemy-sympathizer. We were told to "get over it" and move on (which if memory serves is where MoveOn got its name - we hijacked it from the bad guys and turned it into something positive and progressive, nyah-nyah-nyah). How come we don't have a constant drumbeat of support at OUR guy's back all the time? How come we're not jumping all over them anytime even one of them opens his/her yap in the way we don't approve of? Where's our militant and hair-trigger support system for this man? Why? BECAUSE. BECAUSE HE'S THE FRICKIN' PRESIDENT. He STILL has a bigger voter mandate, today, than any of these provincial pipsqueaks yapping at his heels could even dream of having. Support from more people in more places than some of these asshole idiots can even find on a map. And whatever bowing and scraping or reverent'ing they did toward the president and presidency during bush/cheney and also demanded the rest of us fall in line on our knees with them, frankly, President Obama should get that, too.

Because he's the PRESIDENT, dammit. DEAL WITH IT. That's what they sure told us after Selection 2000. Shut Up, Get Over It, Move On, Deal With It. Well, why aren't we jamming the same thing down THEIR throats? He's OUR President. And he's lightyears better than the last mercenary dry-drunk pea-brained doofus. In a few years when the historians are starting to have the floor about the Obama Presidency, the actual record of accomplishment will shame many of his peers. He will be a landmark president. I would bet you that the vast majority of big names throughout the campaign, be they candidates for Senate, the House, Governor, or other stuff, party big shots or media people etc., ALL of them who dissed him, abandoned him, lied about him, insulted him, obstructed him, and/or tried to undermine him (if the situation were reversed, we'd be harangued as traitors) will be fighting for airtime to heap praise upon Barack Obama after his death. I bet they'll be fighting for places in church on the day of the Obama State Funeral. I'm so pissed off about this that I find myself gravitating toward the "serves you right" department when thinking about Alison Lundergan Grimes. Could it be that this pissed off voters on our side and motivated them to stay home? Moved them to say "fuck this! I'll show you!"?

Hey, I don't know. I'm just guessing based upon behavior and behavior trends I see. You look at the result and try to figure out how you got there. But it pisses me off to see all the dumping on President Obama. Every damn day seems to be "Dump on Obama Day"! If the bad guys are doing it, WHY are we aiding and abetting? If the bad guys are doing it, shouldn't that tell us we should do the opposite? Because how many times have the bad guys called it correctly? They say they're the "right" wing and yet they're anything but. They insist they're "right" and they seldom are! I'm tired of it. And the more President Obama's picked on, the more I'm gonna defend him. On his worst day, President Obama stands MILES above any of the opposition on their best days.

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Response to calimary (Reply #35)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 08:10 PM

36. Absolutely.

Idon't always agree but I really like and respect the man. He is just in an impossible situation yethe just keeps his cooland keeps on slogging.

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 01:19 AM

3. So, Then

What was it that caused blacks to not show up in 2010? Not that I'm dismissing this, as a viable reason. But let's face it, a lot of Democrats, black, and white, simply failed to show up.

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 01:48 AM

4. I tried to tell people how offensive it was.

 

Nobody cares what us black voters think. We are expected to vote dem no matter what, while our democrats try for the slighly racist vote that they will never get and ignore and insult us. Can't d anything for us, it might piss of independents who are much more important than we loyal dems are.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:00 AM

5. My whole family was MAD!

Every time the Dems try to Not offend people who do not like Obama they offend us who love him. Black, white, whatever.. He should have Never been treated that way! We are white but none of that matters... i am just so angry.. Who is advising these people???

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Response to karmaqueen (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:02 AM

6. They are weak willed pansies.

 

I keep biting my tongue, but I expected the black vote numbers to slip. They will keep slipping.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:10 AM

19. I seriously doubt that the numbers will continue to slip.

It wouldn't have made any difference in my state if President Obama would have parachuted in to a political rally, offering free balloons, the Republicans were bound and determined to go vote in droves for the craziest people they could get on the ballot.
They re-elected 3 out of 4 members of our Republican delegation who belong to the most "Do Nothing" Congress in the last 80 years!!!



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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:30 AM

20. I do not think the next person running on the Dem side will get the record levels of support.

 

Over 90 percent African American support is very high, even for a democrat. Combine that with the record AA turn out in 2008 & 2012, I just can't see who could bring all those people back to the polls in 2016. I am looking, mind you, but I really don't hear much besides " they're not going to let you vote!" I know that Voter ID is a big issue, but most AA people actually do have ID. We need more than that to bring them to the polls. We need a cohesive and coherent message and our politicians need some cojones. Maybe now, with us in the minority, our politicians will stop being so fearful of what moderates think and start coming up with good policy that will satisfy their base and fight against bad legislation tooth and nail. I'd like to see a bill for free community colleges. We need them and our young people deserve something.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:43 AM

21. I was thinking along the same lines.

I was also curious to see how many Mexican-American/Latino Republicans are in Congress now, yet I couldn't find one.
Now that marriage equality is well on the way to being a done deal while Obama is in office, I think that will be the next big social issue of the day.

And since immigration reform is now mostly up to Republicans to advance toward some kind of solution, I am sure they will fuck it up beyond imagination.

So, I think the next Democrat who runs for President should massage his/her message towards the Latinos, and spend some quality time discussing immigration reform.
I may be wrong, but I think the next 2 years are going to be very contentious.
Yet, this time, it is not going to be the Democrats and Obama who wind up being frustrated!


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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #21)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:01 AM

22. I think it is our job to force them to put out legislation.

 

Whatever they put out will be horrible, and that gives us two years to show the nation how crazy they are. And we need to produce legslation geared towards each segment of our base. Stop just saying middle class all the time and speak to all groups. We have lots of poor people and people who feel poor, middle class folks who are cash poor and living on credit. Spending all of our energy on small business owners leaves them out of the conversation. Even red states voted for minimum wage last night. MY state voted to increase it to 8.75 in 2015 and 9.75 in 2016, and in think there will be incremental raises after that. We could not have done ot without conservatives coming out in droves and voting FOR it. It won over 60% support. We called it 'Vote Yourself A Raise' I think. They voted with us to protect Bristol Bay. Some voted for Pot. But it was OUR legislation that won the day, just not our candidates. It took years to get them to see the light, but they did. They just hate liberals. Love our policies.

Basically, I don't think we have bad policy. We have limp liberals. Not all. But enough to drag us down and it's time to figure out what works, where. And stop supporting the drug war and mass incarceration. Even Republicans are tired of it out here. If we push policy like minimum wage, lowering drug sentences, ending the drug war, decriminilization of small amounts of drugs, peopke will come to the polls, and even some conservatives and many libertarians will vote for them. We just have to stop being scared. People want these things, we should give them to them.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #21)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 08:01 AM

29. The Most Latino Congress Ever Is Coming In 2015

With 29 Hispanics in the U.S. House of Representatives and three in the U.S. Senate, 2015 will be the most Latino Congress in U.S. history, according to an analysis by the National Association of Latino Elected Officials Educational Fund.

The incoming Congress will have one more Latino representative than it does currently, while the number of Latinos in the U.S. Senate remained unchanged at three.

“Latino candidates made history on election night, securing groundbreaking victories in contests across the country and in both political parties,” Executive Director of NALEO Education Fund Arturo Vargas said in a press statement. “Latinos will continue to shape the nation’s political landscape as candidates, demonstrating their ability to lead and win at all levels of office.”

The incoming class of Latino Congress members leans toward the left, with Democrats making up almost three out of four of the 32. The largest Hispanic delegation comes from the state of California, with 10 members, all of whom are representatives. Texas will send the second-highest number of Latino members of Congress, with seven -- six representatives, and one senator.

Five new Hispanic faces will join the U.S. House of Representatives next year, including two Democrats and three Republicans. Alex Mooney, a Republican, will become West Virginia’s first Latino U.S. Representative.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/05/latinos-in-congress_n_6111410.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics

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Response to karmaqueen (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:19 AM

8. That is The Question. Who is advising these people?

 

and for what reason is this bad advice given?

Could it have anything to do with 2016 and the fact that the results from yesterday's catastrophe might actually help a candidate?

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Response to LawDeeDah (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 04:10 AM

18. If Democrats were *thinking* and opening their eyes...

they wouldn't need advisors.

It was clear as day what things needed to be done, and the Democrats did not do those things. And it makes them look incredibly stupid. IMHO.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:17 AM

7. Yup

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:25 AM

23. Unfortunately it causes a vicious cycle

When Obama voters decide not to vote Democratic because they dislike the way some Dems have run from Obama, it just ends up hurting Obama. The loss of support then gets used as evidence by the press, the Republicans and disgruntled Democrats that Obama is unpopular and that he is the problem.

And then the cycle starts all over again.

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Response to TroyD (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:51 AM

25. But Obama wont be around much longer.

 

His voters need to be won back. Many of them were young and are Obama Democrats. You won't draw Obama democrats to the polls by kicking him around all day every day instead of pushing policy that will help them. If you want them to be lifelong democrats, how do you make that happen?
Good policy would be helpful. Not trashing the person that convinced them to vote for the first time would help too. We could try supporting better candidates that are for things that they want, like more money, better schools. All we talk about are the middle class and small business owners. There are millions of cash poor Americans we neglect that vote for policies that are liberal. Many vote for minimum wage last night. And legalizing pot. We have too many dems still fighting the drug war and fearing republicans being mean to them about voting for Obama. They are pandering to a group of folks who would never vote for them anyway while ignoring liberals.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:50 AM

24. I care, my Dad cared, many White People care, the assholes get all the press

A Letter From President Obama, on my father's death.


Dear Mike:

Thank you for the moving letter you sent this spring. I was touched by your words, and saddened to learn of the passing of your father, Patrick.
Stories like your father's remind me why I ran for this office in the first place, and I trust you take great pride in his legacy of service and in the values he passed on to you. Please know your message will remain in my thoughts, and I will not stop fighting to build a brighter future for our nation.

Sincerely,
Barack Obama
9/3/2013

------------------my letter to President Obama 5/20/2013-------------------

Dear President Obama,
My father and I met you in July of 2004 at the Depue, Illinois VFW. It was just a few weeks after your address before the Democratic Convention. I was the last person in line to shake your hand after you had addressed the people gathered to meet you. I told you I was not sure you understood or were aware of the hope and promise that people saw in you. As you signed a copy of your convention speech that I had brought with me, I added, "Don't get the big head when you get to Washington, DC." You motioned to Michele and said, "She won't let me."
Neither of you have disappointed me. Both of you have inspired me as you have held your poise and grace in the face of vitriol most extreme and regrettable. But you should never lose sight of the fact that for every bitter voice there are many more that quietly admire and respect you.
My father passed over on March 3rd of this year. His last few years were a struggle. His last days were hard. As we talked the day before he passed into the Great Silence he told me he was glad he had lived long enough to see you re-elected. A life-long Democrat, a former precinct committeeman, he took great comfort knowing you were putting this nation back on the path of prosperity and respectibility. You gave my father something to smile about during his long goodbye. For that I am forever grateful.
Respectfully,
Mike Kohr


A SMILE
A smile is a very special thing. It costs nothing, but gives so much.
It creates happiness in the home. It fosters goodwill in business.
It is rest to the weary, daylight to the discouraged, sunshine to the sad.
It happens in a flash, but the memory of it sometimes lasts forever.
Yet it cannot be begged, bought, or stolen.
It is something that is of no value to anyone until it is given away.
Some people are too tired to give you a smile. Give them one of yours.
For no one needs a smile as much as he who has no more to give.
-Olde Irish Saying-


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Response to mikekohr (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:54 AM

27. Thank you.

 

I didn't mean ALL, shoulda have said that. Many. It's just that I tried to warn that certain things were not helpful, more of a hinderance.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:04 AM

28. I understand.

God bless, God speed.

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:24 AM

9. United we stand, divided we fall

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:33 AM

10. It ticked me off.

I told my husband this exact thing today. They're nitwits for running away from his accomplishments but we're the ones who'll pay for it.

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:49 AM

11. I don't know what they were thinking

I assume it was based on his "approval ratings" which weren't that low and highly subject to interpretation. I don't think they bothered to realize that congressional approval rating is like 17% and they get reelected.

I don't know what they were thinking. Were they watching Fox News and did it scare them?

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:51 AM

12. Should have hammered hard on Bush/Republican economic collapse and

 

Obama recovery. Gas prices and insurance rates coming down. Dow jones and jobs going WAY up. Idiots.

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:11 AM

14. not voting is worse

 

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:27 AM

15. As well they should be. And we were warned early on. A hint of what was squandered since 2009:



Obama '...a democratic president, has stood by our democracy, making this a better country.'

Yes indeed. He believes in this country more than many ever did. Americans committed a great wrong to our POC brethren. They led the way for so many, despite all odds. They were our teachers.

Obama works for all of us and is hated from all sides. He knows how the words of the Founders have been interpreted by progressives like himself - a true liberal and progressive - anyone who can't grasp that is beyond help.

The best opportunity this nation had to overcome 30 years of increasing fascism has been wasted. He has been loyal to a nation who didn't deserve him and I will never forgive the haters.

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:43 AM

16. The cowardice without conviction was glaring here in Colorado

I could go on and on about the campaigns I saw here in Colorado, but I am burnt out on it. My only question isn't "how" they lost, that was obvious and stated above. My question is, "Did they… CAN they learn anything from it or is it too late now"?

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:57 AM

17. Folks-Nobody Knew It was "Morning in America" Until Reagan Said it Was

We forgot to tell America it was morning

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:22 AM

31. Chickenshit Democratic candidates caved to racist Republican sentiments.

What a shame that the rest of us have to pay for their lack of courage and character.

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:24 AM

32. Sorry, I don't buy it

People need to grow the fuck up. I have been hearing how people vote based on how the candidates make them "feel." Listen assholes, you are not picking a date you are picking a politician to represent your needs. Politicians are loathsome people generally; they have to appeal to a wide range of people to be elected. They ain't gonna be your dream date.

This election has really opened my eyes on this type of behavior. Mark Udall could not be more clear what Corey Gardner wants to do. But what did women say? "Oh, the campaign is so negative, blah, blah, blah.

I tell you what, I don't give one shit what the repukes do. Abolish birth control! Outlaw abortion! Drill in every pristine corner of this country! But god forbid the voters get their feelings hurt because a politician was pointing out his opponent's horrible record lest they get offended.

None of what the rebukes do will affect me and I am done caring about the plight of the less fortunate if they can't get off their ass to go vote. As for the people who were "offended," they have now made President Obama's job so much harder. Congratulations morons!

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:36 AM

33. This post makes it obvious what happened

Kinda gives me a new view on voting in America.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017224925

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:07 AM

34. I think it's why Nunn/Carter didn't get as close as expected.

 

Ignoring the large AA population in Georgia by not inviting Obama to the state was dumb on so many levels.

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:00 PM

37. My biggest far is Hillary does same dumb shit in 2016

We know her inner circle not huge on Obama for obvious reasons although they should be glad he sucked up the past 8 years vs her so she inherits a great economy instead of the shit show Bush left him.

If she's stupid enough to not use him she deserves to lose. She has a natural defense against the "another Obama term". She ran against him 8 years ago but broadly supports him and his policies. She can highlight specific differences she has with him without tossing him under bus and then quickly pivot to attacking Republicans and highlighting how the past 8 years were much better than the previous 8 under Bush.

There's your playbook. Let's pray she's smart enough to follow it.

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)


Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:21 PM

39. I'm a white voter and I was offended also.

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Response to SmittynMo (Original post)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 09:59 PM

40. Beat on Obama

The Republicans won because they had a simple message the majority of ordinary people could understand........they have been stating that message for last 6 years, we do not like Obama........we will stop him........democrats should have been offensive defending their policies from day 1.........beating up on congress approval rating of 13% why did we let them say 44% approval of Obama so many times no one spoke of low congress approval......dems lost because...there was no unity.....Republicans unified against Obama..........

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Response to ravik (Reply #40)

Sat Nov 8, 2014, 12:42 AM

41. But the dem reps distinctly said

this election wasn't about Obama. Pretty stupid to say that, eh? We looked like idiots. Ooops, sorry. I meant Republicans.

We made that look even worse by not using him as an ally. It was so disappointing. We got exactly what we asked for. Nothing!!!!

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