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Wed Dec 17, 2014, 01:29 AM

How can Cruz run for president?

Born in Canada though he renounced his citizenship in Canada. How can that work? Am I missing something?

55 replies, 8794 views

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Arrow 55 replies Author Time Post
Reply How can Cruz run for president? (Original post)
ALBliberal Dec 2014 OP
onecaliberal Dec 2014 #1
Rosa Luxemburg Dec 2014 #3
leftofcool Dec 2014 #12
66 dmhlt Dec 2014 #13
onenote Dec 2014 #18
66 dmhlt Dec 2014 #42
DFW Dec 2014 #21
Journeyman Dec 2014 #2
CTyankee Dec 2014 #43
okaawhatever Dec 2014 #50
unblock Dec 2014 #4
Reter Dec 2014 #14
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2014 #37
unblock Dec 2014 #39
Reter Dec 2014 #45
unblock Dec 2014 #46
DFW Dec 2014 #22
LynneSin Dec 2014 #26
unblock Dec 2014 #38
HeiressofBickworth Dec 2014 #5
TreasonousBastard Dec 2014 #6
MiniMe Dec 2014 #8
TreasonousBastard Dec 2014 #9
MiniMe Dec 2014 #10
TreasonousBastard Dec 2014 #11
DFW Dec 2014 #23
onecaliberal Dec 2014 #15
TreasonousBastard Dec 2014 #17
onecaliberal Dec 2014 #31
madinmaryland Dec 2014 #48
olddots Dec 2014 #7
LeftinOH Dec 2014 #16
grasswire Dec 2014 #19
madinmaryland Dec 2014 #49
ALBliberal Dec 2014 #20
DFW Dec 2014 #24
Nay Dec 2014 #32
DFW Dec 2014 #34
Nay Dec 2014 #35
DFW Dec 2014 #40
LynneSin Dec 2014 #27
ALBliberal Dec 2014 #33
hughee99 Dec 2014 #25
LynneSin Dec 2014 #28
hughee99 Dec 2014 #30
Nay Dec 2014 #36
hughee99 Dec 2014 #41
Nay Dec 2014 #44
jberryhill Dec 2014 #51
Fearless Dec 2014 #29
rtracey Dec 2014 #47
Cleita Dec 2014 #52
Skittles Dec 2014 #53
MatthewStLouis Dec 2014 #54
tosoris Dec 2014 #55

Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 01:37 AM

1. He was NOT born in the United States

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 01:44 AM

3. He can't run, period

end of story

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:44 AM

12. Yes, he can.

His mother was an American citizen at the time of his birth. That makes him a citizen as well.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 08:41 AM

13. Yeah, well I want to see his Mother's LONG-FORM Birth Certificate!

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Response to 66 dmhlt (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 11:48 AM

18. Because being as big an idiot as, say, Donald Trump, is something you aspire to?

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Response to onenote (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 09:55 AM

42. You have a prodoundly dismal sense of humor, don't you?

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:45 PM

21. Kind of a grey area, though he'd probably get away with it.

My children were born in Germany and my wife is German. They were automatically German citizens from birth. They only became American citizens as well because I went to the American embassy immediately after they were born and applied for American citizenship for them, brought the birth certificate listing me as the father and my own passport. US citizenship was NOT automatic. If this is not done right away, the embassy will ask why the delay, and there had better be a very good explanation or they can turn you down. Even then, there might come a point at which the person born abroad gets considered a naturalized (as opposed to natural born) citizen, if he or she waits until adulthood. I don't know where that cutoff might be, but I know that while I was at the Embassy here in Germany getting US citizenship for one of my newborn daughters, there was a German woman with her son, about 15, trying to get him US citizenship due to his American father, and they were giving her a very rough time. She had gotten nowhere by the time I left with my baby girl's US passport.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 01:38 AM

2. Not certain if he's eligible or not, but ultimately, it works out to IOKIYAR . . .

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 10:44 AM

43. After Cruz's latest stunt I think the pukes are mad as hell and won't be so fast to forgive him.

Maddow had a great segment on it the other night. It made him look like a loon and clueless about the "unintended consequences." I think that finished him as far as the GOP is concerned...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #43)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 02:09 AM

50. Video of that segment is on the cnbc webpage under "recent videos" It is titled


"Democrats take advantage of Cruz showboating"
Rachel Maddow reports on how political grandstanding against President Obama’s immigration actions by Ted Cruz in the Senate allowed Senate Democrats more time to confirm more presidential nominees, including Vivek Murthy for Surgeon General.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show

I just watched it. Very good information.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 01:47 AM

4. same way mclame and george rmoney (mitt's father) were able to.

born outside the u.s. but to a u.s. citizen parent means you're a u.s. citizen from birth.

in cruz's case he also apparently had canadian citizenship automatically due to being born there. as you said, he renounced that, but he's also always been a u.s. citizen.


in truth i think the "natural-born" thing is an archaism, leftover from the early days to prevent some british person from becoming a naturalized u.s. citizen and then president and then putting us back under british control. a sort of anachronistic manchurian candidate fear i guess.

i don't think it's a meaningful requirement these days, if someone can become a u.s. citizen and then get elected president i don't really see a problem with that.


that said, if republicans are going to play games about obama's constitutional qualifications, screw them, i'm gonna fight back! it's ludicrous given that they're the prime offenders. they even wanted ahhhnold to run!

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Response to unblock (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 10:02 AM

14. I wouldn't put McCain in that group

 

Both of his parents lived in the US and were citizens. He was born in a US military base.

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Response to Reter (Reply #14)


Response to Reter (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:50 AM

39. on a u.s. military base *in panama*, not in the u.s.

moreover, the law that granted citizenship in such cases didn't even exist at the time of his birth. it was enacted later.

and vaguely recall some uncertainty as to whether he was actually born on the military base or in a nearby hospital.


the point is obama's obviously a natural born citizen because he was born in hawaii; he's also a natural born citizen because his mother is a u.s. citizen. his case is stronger than the cases of several people republicans have not had a problem with.

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Response to unblock (Reply #39)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:37 PM

45. Then what about being on vacation in France when your mom gives birth?

 

Would that count too? Is the constitution that absolute? And for the record, the US military base in Panama could be argued it was the US, since it was technically US soil.

Yes, Obama is a Natural-born US citizen. No one mentioned him. Cruz's case, however, is a bit more complicated. He might be, or might be not. The SC never ruled on it.

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Response to Reter (Reply #45)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:54 PM

46. you can be an automatic citizen from birth if born abroad to a u.s. parent, but

the paperwork should be taken care of promptly. it's more of a challenge if done long after birth.

cruz's case is really no different afaik.

yes, the supremos haven't provided much guidance and it's hard to imagine them responding in a non-partisan way given that their decision could determine a future president. they've got a horrible track record when the presidency is at stake....

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Response to unblock (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:50 PM

22. It is definitely archaic, but:

If you are born abroad and have a foreign parent, you must APPLY for US citizenship. It is not granted automatically unless you apply for it reasonably shortly after the child is born. You cannot walk into any US embassy at age 15 and say "gimme a passport, one of my parents is/was a US citizen." I saw this firsthand at the US Embassy in Germany while I was applying for US citizenship for one of my daughters. Show up with a birth certificate listing the US parent on it with 8 weeks of the birth, and it's no problem. Wait until the kid is in his or her teens, and they'll make you jump through many hoops, and can still deny the application if your paperwork isn't to their satisfaction.

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Response to unblock (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 09:12 PM

26. Which means all the bullshit they gave to Obama makes the tea bag idiots even bigger idiots

Because even though Obama's father was Kenyan, his mother was an American born in Kansas. Cruz comes from the same exact parentage - father was born in another country (this guy was from Cuba) and mother was born in Delaware.

The difference - Obama was born in the states, Cruz was not.

BUT....

If these jackasses somehow claim that their darling Cruz is eligible to run then the look like idiots because for 8 years they used that same logic to say that Obama was NOT qualified be president.

It just boggles the mind.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:43 AM

38. you give the birther crap too much credit. it was always just to remind people that obama's black.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 01:49 AM

5. It depends, I guess.

If Teapartiers want him, all laws, rules, customs, and history will be fried, tied, lied, and broken to achieve their goal. If not, he won't get past first base. Expect to see some astounding hypocrisy from the right!

For those of us who are interested in upholding laws, we need to see that all conditions were met whereby a child born of an American parent while abroad were met. Cruz's father was a Cuban citizen at the time of Teddie's birth and it was Teddie's mother who was the US citizen living in Canada. Citizenship was never a valid issue for President Obama as he was born in Hawaii and had citizenship by virtue of birth in an American state.

Here's the website that contains the requirements for securing US citizenship if born abroad: http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html It's a State Department website so I think we can count on the accuracy of the statement of requirements. I am particularly interested in this: "Parents of a child born abroad to a U.S. citizen or citizens should apply for a CRBA and/or a U.S. passport for the child as soon as possible. Failure to promptly document a child who meets the statutory requirements for acquiring U.S. citizenship at birth may cause problems for the parents and the child when attempting to establish the child’s U.S. citizenship and eligibility for the rights and benefits of U.S. citizenship..."

Oh, and about that renunciation -- It isn't just a matter of SAYING he renounces his Canadian citizenship, there are DOCUMENTS required to affect the renunciation which need to be filed with and approved by the Canadian government. At the very least, we need to see the long-form documents, don't ya think?

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 01:50 AM

6. His mother was born in Delaware, so...

good for the goose, good for the gander...

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 02:39 AM

8. What does that have to do with anything?

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Response to MiniMe (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 02:51 AM

9. One of his parents is a US citizen-- that makes him one, too...

lots of debate on the law on this, since it doesn't come up very often.

At any rate, dump him for being a dipshit and lay low on the citizenship thing.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 02:53 AM

10. Just trying to figure out what you were getting at with the goose and gander reference

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Response to MiniMe (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 03:04 AM

11. Oh, that-- just about the bullshit over Obama being born in Kenya...

and the horror of McCain born in the Canal Zone.

(For Schwarzenegger, however, there is no excuse.)

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:53 PM

23. Not automatically, it doesn't

If he was born abroad with one foreign parent, US citizenship must be applied for at a US embassy by presenting proper documentation. It is not automatic. Been there, and had to do that (twice).

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 10:59 AM

15. What goose would that be? Obama was born in HI

Last I checked that was America.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 11:46 AM

17. So? There was still a huge ridiculous discussion about it.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 09:51 PM

31. By republicans. Not people living in reality.

This a a completely different situation.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:11 PM

48. Yeah. I guess the only difference in the two situations is one person looks white and the other...

Doesn't.


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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 02:10 AM

7. he should run really fast

 

And never stop running till he leaves earth orbit .

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 11:14 AM

16. I hope he gets the R nomination ..if only to see the

birther nutjobs -who have not shut up for the last 6 years- explain their sudden redefinition of citizenship.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 01:26 PM

19. technically, Cheney was not qualified to become vp, either. nt

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Response to grasswire (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:18 PM

49. Yeah. Cheney is from planet Warrrrblegarrrrble, which is not part of the US. I want to see

his fucking birth certificate!!

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 06:17 PM

20. I can see being born on a military base

As an acceptable exception like McCain being born in Puerto Rico (I think that's where he was born) But with the grief they have given President Obama the right will have some interesting spins to sell this. It truly makes me sick to think of the hypocrisy that will ensue.

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Response to ALBliberal (Reply #20)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:55 PM

24. Panama Canal Zone, actually

And it was technically US territory at the time. Cruz is a different story.

I'd really like to know at what age his US citizenship was applied for.

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Response to DFW (Reply #24)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 10:41 PM

32. Cruz got a U.S. passport at age 14, IIRC. This situation was all hashed out back

last year when it was revealed he had a Canadian birth certificate.

If he was issued a U.S. passport by the U.S. govt, I am assuming that his parents went through the process to declare him a citizen. It is odd, though, that no State Dept certificate of foreign birth of a US citizen has ever surfaced.

Also, Cruz was granted a revocation of his citizenship by the Canadian govt.; since Canada will NOT revoke the citizenship of a person who will then become stateless, we have to assume that Cruz has citizenship in another country and the documents to prove it. His passport would be enough. But, of course, we have no idea what documents he used.

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Response to Nay (Reply #32)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 11:39 PM

34. One part is definitely weird there

" no State Dept certificate of foreign birth of a US citizen has ever surfaced. "

Both my girls were issued a "Birth of an American Citizen Abroad" birth certificate the very first time I went to the Embassy to register them as citizens. If he doesn't have that, then he has no valid US birth certificate at all--in which case he comes up empty every time we toss their words back at them: "Show us the birth certificate!"

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Response to DFW (Reply #34)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 11:56 PM

35. That is certainly true. Per the St Dept., parents are supposed to apply for

that piece of paper when the child is born. However, on the St Dept site, it says that it is 'suggested' that the application be done then. Cruz has never produced any piece of paper whatsoever except his Canadian birth certificate and his US passport. So we have no idea how he qualified for the US passport. One would think that a crazed Pub like Cruz would be eager to prove his US citizenship, but knowing those people, I'm sure he thinks HE shouldn't have to do a damn thing, it's just those dark-skinned furriners who need to do such things. Hypocrisy, IOW.

US passports aren't issued without proof of US citizenship, so he's got some kind of paperwork, but he doesn't think he should have to prove himself to us unwashed assholes out here. I have always wondered what was used to get him that passport at age 14. Had to be something.

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Response to Nay (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:21 AM

40. That's what they told me, too

And notice the language they use. "APPLY" for the paperwork. It is not granted automatically. The USA doesn't know if someone born abroad has a claim to citizenship or not. The parents have to come in, present documentation, and ask for it, just like I did.

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Response to ALBliberal (Reply #20)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 09:17 PM

27. Personally I think the law is stupid. If someone spent most of their life being raised in the USA..

and is a US Citizen then they are qualified.

Personally I think Cruz should be qualified because his mother was an American Citizen, she was born in Delaware. They only happened to be in Canada because of a job his father had. The tricky thing is the fact that Cruz' father happened to be born in Cuba.

So for me I have no problem with Cruz' right to run for president or his American Citizenship.

What I have an issue with his hypocrisy and trust me - I won't let that one slip past me and I suspect many others will not either. To say Obama was not qualified, whether or not he was born in Hawaii or even if he was born in Kenya, his mother was an American Citizen and thus he had the same rights.

There are several presidents before Obama who had the same type of birthright and it was never and issue but then again they were white so I guess that made a difference.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #27)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 10:42 PM

33. Bingo

When comparing Obama and Cruz (with Obama being born in the US and Cruz NOT born in the US) it's pretty clear racism comes into play.
Already the history and discussion of Obama's birth is seemingly being put on the back burner by the right as they make way for Cruz's candidacy. They sure don't want us to avenge the hell they put the country through on their fool's errand of proving Obama's citizenship by questioning Cruz's right to run for president.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 09:00 PM

25. Hooray! Now Dems can be "birthers" too!

Really looking forward to that.

My favorite part will be the "it's different this time because..."

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #25)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 09:18 PM

28. I don't think any of us are birthers. It is more about the Hypocrisy

I know I have serious issue with that.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #28)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 09:42 PM

30. If Dems start in on this, they'll likely be enough

hypocrisy to go around.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:11 AM

36. Since Cruz had Canadian citizenship through a Canadian birth and a

Canadian birth certificate, I don't think it's crazy to ask. There ARE certain restrictions -- a baby born abroad should be registered with the US embassy and get that certificate. For babies born abroad of a US citizen mother, there are other restrictions -- the mother, for example, has to have lived in the US for 5 uninterrupted years after the age of 14, before the birth of the child. IOW, US citizenship is not always automatic even if one or both parents are US citizens.

Now, I'm sure the St Dept is pretty liberal about granting citizenships to older children and maybe even adults if the circumstances of the birth are clear, but still, it doesn't answer the question: what paperwork did his parents use to get him his US passport? If I were he, I'd just produce that paper and renounce my Canadian citizenship. My bet is that he can't produce that paper. Maybe his parents are total ninnies with paperwork, maybe they're hoarders, who knows.

But it's still a strange situation and any normal politician would have squared up and produced his paperwork to destroy all the speculation immediately. Cruz? He still hasn't produced anything except his revocation papers,which, if you'll remember, he said he was consulting his lawyers about. Riiiiight. The form is 4 pages, one of which is a signature page, and all he needed to do was fill that out, enclose a check for $100 Canadian, and Bob's your uncle. But it took him A WHOLE YEAR to get this done. This idiot can't find his asshole with a flashlight.

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Response to Nay (Reply #36)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:28 AM

41. Just to clarify, I don't have an issue with people asking the question, because

not everyone is clear on what the law is, or what Cruz's particular circumstances are. Cruz will no doubt provide some documentation (just like Obama did). The issue you'll see is when people don't believe the documentation (in Obama's case, the "birthers", because there are people who think this way that vote Dem too).

Personally, I don't think it really matters because I don't think he has a real shot at winning (though it would be great if he were their nominee). More to the point, though, anyone that spends much time raising objections to Cruz based on his citizenship status is wasting time they could be spending raising objections to Cruz for any one of the thousands of reasons he'd be a shitty president, whether he's from the US, Canada or Mars.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:25 AM

44. No problem. I wasn't trying to come down on you hard or anything. And you're

right (I hope) that he has little chance of winning the nomination. It's just so goddamned irritating that Obama went through all that birther shit and Cruz doesn't have to show a thing.

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Response to Nay (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 02:32 AM

51. He was entitled to US citizenship at birth

 

Citizenships are not mutually exclusive.

He is not a naturalized U.S. Citizen. Because he was born to a U.S. citizen who had met a threshold residence in the U.S., he is a US citizen by virtue of the circumstances of his birth.

The residence requirement cuts off successive generations born abroad.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Wed Dec 17, 2014, 09:38 PM

29. He can't.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:54 PM

47. Actually

 

With the Cuba restrictions being dropped, and new alliances being formed, It won't matter if Cruz is Canadian, American or North Korean.... Ain't gonna be no Right Wing President, and I think the lazy asses that didnt vote this year......the are going to vote in 2016, and that will be ok for the Senate....not the House... too much gerrymandering there.......

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 02:42 AM

52. Yes, you are.

We no longer have laws that apply to everyone. Apparently, he gets a Republican exception. I dare any Democrat born out of the country to Americans like myself to even try to run for President. It wouldn't happen but as a Republican I guess the laws don't apply to him like they didn't apply to George W. Bush when the Supreme Court awarded him the Presidency even though they were totally out of sync with the laws up until then that only State Supreme Courts could arbitrate election results.

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 03:54 AM

53. American-born Obama is a foreigner but repukes like Cruz and Schwarzengger are not!!!

what's not to get?

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 03:11 PM

54. The guy makes my head hurt. He cannot run for President.

Ugh!

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Response to ALBliberal (Original post)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 08:21 AM

55. cruz is bad news

he wouldn't be a good president.

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