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Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:58 AM

Anyone Else Notice That We Tend to Use Female Candidates First Names But Male Candidates Last Names?

What's up with that? Can anyone explain this distinction. Why are we so comfortable saying Hillary and then talking about her rivals as Cruz, Bush, Walker, etc?

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Reply Anyone Else Notice That We Tend to Use Female Candidates First Names But Male Candidates Last Names? (Original post)
Joe Nation Apr 2015 OP
daleanime Apr 2015 #1
MillennialDem Apr 2015 #25
House of Roberts Apr 2015 #26
MillennialDem Apr 2015 #30
valerief Apr 2015 #2
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #7
HockeyMom Apr 2015 #9
Alittleliberal Apr 2015 #29
HockeyMom Apr 2015 #33
Justice Apr 2015 #18
awoke_in_2003 Apr 2015 #23
Skinner Apr 2015 #3
Sunlei Apr 2015 #20
yeoman6987 Apr 2015 #4
stone space Apr 2015 #5
djean111 Apr 2015 #6
Proud Public Servant Apr 2015 #8
Joe Nation Apr 2015 #10
Chan790 Apr 2015 #14
MillennialDem Apr 2015 #28
Travis_0004 Apr 2015 #11
jobycom Apr 2015 #12
karynnj Apr 2015 #13
NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #15
Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #24
libdem4life Apr 2015 #42
zappaman Apr 2015 #16
cali Apr 2015 #17
Sunlei Apr 2015 #19
oldandhappy Apr 2015 #21
former9thward Apr 2015 #22
still_one Apr 2015 #27
MillennialDem Apr 2015 #31
mythology Apr 2015 #39
apnu Apr 2015 #32
UCmeNdc Apr 2015 #34
DFW Apr 2015 #35
MosheFeingold Apr 2015 #36
MineralMan Apr 2015 #37
treestar Apr 2015 #38
Jamaal510 Apr 2015 #40
treestar Apr 2015 #41
whistler162 May 2015 #45
phleshdef Apr 2015 #43
HappyMe May 2015 #44
tblue37 May 2015 #46
Bonobo May 2015 #47

Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:58 AM

1. Let me check with Bernie on that....

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Response to daleanime (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 08:04 AM

25. In fairness to Bernie, it may be because of his last name giving the impression of Col Sanders.

 

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Response to MillennialDem (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 08:05 AM

26. Or it could be,

via the Thom Hartmann show, we've been having Brunch With Bernie, for close to ten years now.

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Response to House of Roberts (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 08:14 AM

30. Well that's also part of it I'm sure, though I didn't know Bernie or Thom Hartmann 10 years ago ;)

 

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:00 AM

2. We say Hillary because of Bill, but we say Warren, not Elizabeth. Just two examples. nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:11 AM

7. That's what I was thinking. I never call Warren 'Elizabeth'. nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:39 AM

9. Palin and Backman also

on the other side of the coin. Right. Maybe it is simply reserved for just First Ladies? Michelle?

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 08:11 AM

29. It's just to avoid confusion.

Also no one refers to Jeb as Bush. I've only ever heard him referred to as Jeb. Carter was referred to as Jimmy.

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Response to Alittleliberal (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 01:39 PM

33. Too many Bushes!

You wouldn't know which one. lol

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Response to valerief (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 04:54 PM

18. Totally agree

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Response to valerief (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 07:31 PM

23. Yep...

 

it used to be "Bill and Hil"

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:00 AM

3. To be fair: Hillary Clinton's campaigns have encouraged the practice...

...since way back in 1999 when she first ran for Senate.

Plus, it comes in handy to avoid confusion regarding which Clinton you are talking about.

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Response to Skinner (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 05:12 PM

20. good points, with the new logo- it is as if Mrs. Clinton says, "Call me Hillary"

I will not like it though when republicans call her anything other then, Mrs. Clinton or Madam President.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:02 AM

4. Busy hasn't announced yet

 

Maybe once he does the articles will say Jeb.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:02 AM

5. Fine for Cruz and Walker.

 

But Hillary and Jeb get first name treatment from me, just to avoid confusion.

Bernie's a special case. I should be lumping him in with Cruz and Walker, but I just can't bring myself to call him anything but Bernie.

Force of habit, I suppose.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:06 AM

6. Because if we say Clinton, someone might think we are talking about Bill.

 

We refer to Elizabeth Warren as Warren, and use "Liz" about as much as we use 'Bernie". In fact, I think we say Bernie a lot more than "Sanders". I do not think this is a sexist thing, if that is what you are getting at.

If Hillary was not married to a very well-known ex-president, we would likely refer to her as Clinton. We refer to Carly Fiorina as Fiorina, we refer to Michelle Bachmann as Bachmann. We refer to Bush as Jeb, a LOT, to differentiate from his brother. As far as Cruz and Walker are concerned, there are lots of other Teds, and Walker is the only Walker running. His first name is as common as his last name, is all.

And I think that if Ms. Clinton did not want to take advantage of her name recognition, she would have asked that a money-raising group be called "Ready for Clinton". And her logo would be a "C" and not an "H".
Not sexist. Just common sense and name recognition.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:13 AM

8. We do this in all sorts of areas

Sports comes to mind immediately. Interestingly, it seems somewhat less prevalent in business reporting.

That said, we should note that

(1) on DU we seem to call many Dems and progressives by their first names (Hillary, Bernie, Liz, Sherrod) regardless of gender, unless the name is so generic that it doesn't identify a particular person easily (no one calls John Kerry "John".

(2) Women candidates often encourage this because it "softens" their image. That calculation, of course, takes place in the context of a sexist culture, but it does complicate things.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:39 AM

10. Good points thanks everyone

I've always viewed it as disrespectful to use a woman's first name rather than her title or her last name. I see this practiced in higher education quite a bit and you'd think a more liberal environment would be different. We say Professor Smith for a male but then we see a female professor addressed as Sarah.
When it comes to Hillary Clinton, shouldn't we be saying Secretary Clinton?

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Response to Joe Nation (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 02:59 PM

14. Having worked in an academic department...

 

the differentiation between Prof. Smith and "Sarah" is often at the request of the person being referenced.

One of my bosses was a "Bill" and would not even respond to being called Prof. L_____ because he hated it, thought it was too formal and stuffy for a pothead hippie peace activist. Dr. M_____ likewise would correct anybody (verbally the first time, with the death-stare that could only belong to a young woman who grew up in Nazi Germany thereafter) who called her Ingrid. She didn't go to school for 12 years and two Ph.Ds for strangers to be so familiar. It was always "Doctor M_____" and never "Professor M______" because Dr. means you have a Ph.D and Prof. merely means you're a college-level instructor.

Generally though, the men want to be addressed by title because it sounds authoritative and the women want to be addressed by name because it doesn't sound authoritative but rather friendly and "soft." It's all about how you want to be perceived.

It's often a matter of the addresser as well..."Matt" to me (friends since we were freshmen together) is Dr. H_____ to students and "Professor H" to colleagues. He's a colloquial variation on his last name to his wife and his college nickname to other friends from college.

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Response to Chan790 (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 08:10 AM

28. Technically Professor is reserved for those who are tenured or on tenure track and do research and

 

teach, but out of a sign for respect many students will call any college instructor "Professor ___". Even at a community college. Or will use terms like "My professors this semester are all great!". Though it also boils down to area and upbringing (more common for non first generation students to use professor), I noticed that virtually every student in CA would use the term professor, whereas it's more rare in WI.

That said I prefer use of my first name. Professor ____ sounds stuffy (and I'm not a researcher anyway), I don't have a doctorate so Dr. doesn't apply (would also sound stuffy even if I did), and Ms/Mrs/Miss also sound too high school.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:53 AM

11. Also, Hillary uses her first name only on a lot of campaign materials

 

Why is her campaign logo an H and not a C? Because she goes by Hillary.

I dont see the issue, and she embraces it, and as others have said, its less confusing to just say Hillary or Jeb.

Warren makes more sense for Elizabeth Warren.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:30 PM

12. Yes. That's an old feminist observation about the diminutiveization of women.

It's done with famous women everywhere, in politics, business, and just about everywhere else women are professionals.

There are several variations: As with the Clintons, many people call a woman by her first name and man by his last, as if they knew the woman and were on familiar terms with her. But there's also a variation where women are called by a first name instead of getting a title, like Margaret Thatcher as opposed to Prime Minister Tony Blair. With Clinton you'll sometimes hear "Hillary Clinton" and "Former President Clinton," or "Mr. Clinton." And there's the use of the first name with Miss, for younger women, like "Miss Mary," but "Mr. Whatever."

It's not as bad as it used to be, and certainly it's not an absolute, but it's still there. That's one reason I make an effort to call Clinton by her last name, except when it would cause confusion.

Some will claim that Clinton chose to market "Hillary" in this campaign, and that's true, but she chose it because she's fully aware, at least in part because of her last run, that people will call her Hillary anyway. The misogyny was off the charts eight years ago when she ran, even around here. I remember Obama mocking her gun positions by calling her "Little Annie Oakley," for instance (If anyone doesn't see how sexist that was, they've got some growing to do). Rather than fight it, she has decided to use it--a lot of women do that, similar to the way a lot of under-represented people choose to embrace derogative terms.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:32 PM

13. You have one example -- and there are easier reasons for that

I can say Obama, Biden or Kerry -- and you know exactly who I am speaking of - even though Michelle, Jill and Teresa are all awesome. If I say Clinton's long time policy on something was ...., it is not clear which I am speaking of.

I have tried to use HRC or Hillary Clinton rather than Hillary, but I see no disrespect there. Note that the Republican 2008 VP nominee is usually referred to as Palin and the strange 2012 female candidate was Bachmann - not Sarah or Michelle. (In fact, were Hillary give a more first name, it is likely her initials or full name would be used.

Not to mention, it was no more sexist to speak of "Madonna" than of "Elvis". Note also that three of the 4 Beatles are referred to by their last names -- and it is not that Ringo was either the most talented or popular.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 03:33 PM

15. She's a celebrity, like Cher, Madonna, Bono, Sting, and Snooki!

 

On the left, your left, not her left, is Snooki.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 07:46 AM

24. That was a popular Republican anti Obama jab too 'He's a celebrity candidate'.

 

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 30, 2015, 05:49 PM

42. Oh Noes...You dissin' Brittney? Christina? Elvis? LOL .

 

I vote for Elvis, if he's still in the building. RIP.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 04:19 PM

16. I wonder what Warren thinks. n/t

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 04:48 PM

17. baloney. BERNIE is in.

 

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 04:59 PM

19. you're right, people do tend to do that. I intend to show disrespect when I type ''Jebbie' like a,

like a toddlers name or type republican with a lower case r.

by the way, I always type nazi with a lower case n and the blasted auto- spell checker ALWAYS auto-caps the N, I have to fix it every time

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 05:25 PM

21. Bernie and Jeb

Worth noticing tho.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Tue Apr 28, 2015, 06:38 PM

22. Warren is used all the time.

Rarely do I see Elizabeth. Jeb is also used commonly as well as Bernie.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 08:09 AM

27. Depends to some degree on the difficulty of the name. Arnold Schwarzenegger

many times is referred to as Arnold because of that

Was Sarah Palin referred mostly as Sarah or Palin? I tend to think Palin

Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer are routinely referred to as Feinstein and Boxer.

Martha Coakley was referred to as Coakley,

Carly Fiorina is referred to as Carly all the time I think because like "Arnold", her last name may give some people problems, not only in spelling, but pronunciation



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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 08:20 AM

31. To really throw a monkey wrench into things, what about those who we typically use both names

 

Joni Ernst is one I can think of. I never hear her referred to as Joni or Ernst or Senator Ernst.

Ron Johnson and Chuck Schumer are other examples of this, I've noticed at least in the media I listen to or read.

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Response to MillennialDem (Reply #31)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 10:22 PM

39. That's because nobody wants to acknowledge

 

Ernst is actually an elected official.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 12:01 PM

32. Warren disagrees.

Nobody calls her "Elizabeth"

As for Cruz, I like to call him by his actual first name Rafael or "Raffi"

As for Bush, If we're talking W, I call him "Chimpy McDumbass" Jeb, I call "pig boy"

As for Waker, I call him "that fuck up north"

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 02:15 PM

34. Good Point

Hillery does not sound so serious as Sec. Clinton or Sen. Clinton.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 05:07 PM

35. You mean like Bachmann and Palin?

Yeah, I noticed that too. Um, er, I mean.......

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 06:46 PM

36. Tell that to "I like Ike" Eisenhauer and "Give 'em Hell Harry" Truman

The reason people call Hillary "Hillary" is because there are two Clintons in the public eye and if you said "Clinton" people would go "which one? Bill or Hillary?"

It's the same reason "W" was called "W" (and a few names I won't repeat) and "Jeb" is called "Jeb."

By the beard of Abraham, people need to stop tilting at windmills. You sound silly.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 07:11 PM

37. Maybe you should have another look.

You are incorrect.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 08:30 PM

38. I think Hillary wants to be distinguished from Bill

and uses that on purpose. So we follow.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Wed Apr 29, 2015, 11:09 PM

40. I always say Willard

instead of "Romney".

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Thu Apr 30, 2015, 04:19 PM

41. I was just noticing in GD

the use of "Bernie" is pretty much constant.

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Response to treestar (Reply #41)

Fri May 1, 2015, 12:06 PM

45. Or Newt in a earlier era.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Thu Apr 30, 2015, 10:41 PM

43. Anyone else notice how wrong the premise of this OP is?

 

I switch between first and last name of these folks all the time and so do most other people I see posting around here.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Fri May 1, 2015, 08:04 AM

44. Meh.

I don't think this is a big issue at all.

With Bernie's announcement, I'm just glad I have a candidate to support and work for.

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Mon May 4, 2015, 12:40 AM

46. Bernie, Howard, Bill (and among the GOP--Mitt or Willard; Jeb). I think that with Dems, it

is a matter of how familiar the person feels to us--but with Mitt, it's a deliberate expression of contempt.

We call Elizabeth Warren "Warren" most of the time, and Nancy Pelosi "Pelosi." .

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Response to Joe Nation (Original post)

Mon May 4, 2015, 04:36 AM

47. Other than Bernie, Jeb, Mitt you mean? Nt

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