I don't give a flying patootie that Bernie can't win. This primary is about far more than that.

[cali]

It's about what this party stands for and will fight for. It's about highlighting the ever increasing corporate dominance of our government by someone who actually has a record fighting against it. To be corny it's about defining the soul of our party at this time in our nation's history. It's about cutting through the bullshit and hypocrisy.

Yes, HRC will almost certainly win the nomination. The money that she is now so vocal in opposing, ensures that. Bernie has some notable strikes against him: He's a "socialist". He's 73. He's Jewish, etc. But by running, he'll force a real and much needed debate.

It's ironic that the person to do this is an Independent.

Oh, and this is GOOD for the Democratic Party.

[CTyankee]

1. I think that Bernie's entrance into the race is a GREAT thing for progressives!

He and Warren are getting their message about inequality out there and making it a BIG part of the political dialogue. I think it has begun to dawn on the voters that Bernie and Elizabeth's message is right on. Americans are feeling the pain of inequality and these ideas are just what we need to attract more folks into the Democratic Party and win in 2016...

[cali]

4. I think it's good for the party and good for HRC

as the likely nominee.

We agree.

[leftofcool]

2. Okay.

[cali]

3. Do you support Hillary's alliance with Bibi?

Do you support her backing of Israel 100% of the time, right or wrong?

If you're going to dish it out, you're going to get it dished right back at you

For the record: Bernie did not attend Netanyahu's ill begotten speech to Congress- and spoke out strongly against it. Your accusation that Bernie is allied with Bibi is wrong. He is not.

[Agschmid]

12. What was his stance on the recent Israel/Gaza skirmish?

Actually asking, as I don't know.

[cali]

13. pretty much defending Israel- alas

[Agschmid]

14. Okay.

If I remember correctly that was the stance of our government as a whole mostly.

[blkmusclmachine]

5. +1

[Sancho]

6. Berni will be good for a primary race.

To the far right wing, he's is a crazy outlier just like we typically think about Cruz or Palin, but the contrast will give the independents a chance to see Hillary as less extreme and more appealing.

[cali]

7. actually, you're wrong. And the comparison to Cruz or Palin is just dumb

Bernie has demonstrated a lot of appeal to independents, particularly young ones, and he comes off as level headed.

[Sancho]

16. We disagree

talk to voting college students or 20 somethings. Right wingers consider Berni extreme (socialist, communist). The ones who don't listen to Thom Hartman, etc. and only vote occasionally will watch Berni in a primary and see him as more extreme than Hillary. They have name recognition of Hillary, and women particularly know a few things about her.

Just as some middle road right wingers see some from their own party as extreme (so they gravitate to Jeb or other moderates), some middle roaders that are sort of progressive will see Hillary as less extreme.

Think about women business majors in college who don't agree with the crazy repubs, but also have committed to a life in the corporate world. They will choose Hillary over Berni.

Just my observation here in Florida.

[cali]

17. read some of the recent articles

And I've seen Bernie convince republican logger and farmers to vote for him, right here in my town

Prepare to be surprised

[Sancho]

19. I see college students every day.

...and I'm in a purple state with lots of politics on campus.

Bernie is unknown here except the hard core progressives. People around me (even the liberals) are talking business and taxes and environment. Women's rights and LGBT are hot topics. Obviously immigration reform. 25% here were born in another country. Even though TPP is a solid loser on DU, many of my friends and neighbors are not sure it's bad.

Bernie will appeal a little to the SS crowd, and he will be popular on student loans and some domestic programming. OTOH, the socialist label, being Jewish, and little international experience will be negatives. I'd guess that in Florida, side by side with Hillary, she will come out ahead on women's issues, international experience, and likely even knowledge of wall street in the eyes of our independents. We have lots of military contracts in Florida too, so even the independents are more inclined to keep the defense budget.

Bernie may be seen as too liberal for most of the middle road voters in my town if he was on TV sounding like he does on Tom H. Our Democratic and GOP bases are almost equal, so winning the 40% in the middle is the way to win Florida - assuming the base shows up to vote. Of course, in debates and with good campaigning, he might get some support. He would have to be careful not to sound too extreme. I think in a comparison Hillary would appear more centered, even on issues where they essentially agree.

We'll see.

[cali]

20. you're aware that Bernie got a standing ovation at. S.C. state Democratic

Convention, last week, right?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/as-sc-democrats-wait-on-hillary-clinton-likely-foes-plant-seeds/2015/04/25/453f5810-eb5f-11e4-aae1-d642717d8afa_story.html

HRC didn't bother to go.

[Sancho]

24. Yep...

and I used to work in SC for Richard Riley (two term governor from SC and Clinton's Secretary of Education).

I'm sure that at a Democratic meeting, Bernie would be well-received. That's especially true of the hard core base in a state where they are surrounded by the enemy. Likely it would be true in parts of Florida.

Winning purple states like Florida and Ohio are the way to win national elections. That depends on winning the middle and independents.

There's a great article from years ago: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1164602?uid=3739600&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21106205549931
Eelworms, Bulletholes, and Geraldine Ferraro. It explains that the most important sample (voters in this case) are the non ignorable, non respondent. In other words, we know the base. Hillary or Bernie would either get a great reception from most Democratic forums if they were the candidate. What wins or loses elections today (other than hacking and gerrymandering) is getting the independent and non-affiliated voters to pick you. It's the voters absent from the rally that we need to worry about.

We know Hillary has some possibility to win over women and segments of the potential independents. I'm not convinced that Bernie will pull it off in the big purple states. If he makes the primary competitive, then that's great. I've listened to him for years, and he's got a good handle on selected issues. He gets a little testy about some topics, and gives a good speech. To the young folks and some independents, he may not be as convincing. Right now, most of the "TMZ" group probably don't know who he is...

[Sancho]

29. Link that is similar to what I've been thinking....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/upshot/the-problem-for-bernie-sanders-the-narrow-lane-to-hillary-clintons-left.html?contentCollection=us&action=click&module=NextInCollection&region=Footer&pgtype=article&abt=0002&abg=0

[Evergreen Emerald]

8. The independent

is about what the democratic party stands for?

[cali]

9. He is about the issues that we as democrats should stand for.

that's a no brainer.

[dionysus]

37. he is cali.. and you're also smart enough to know that sadly the volting populace at large is

shallow and stupid

[frylock]

22. What does the Democratic party stand for..

and how does that conflict with Sander's policy positions?

[truebluegreen]

10. This is good!

And also indicative: Bernie said he would get in the race if he didn't think the people's position was getting enough attention (or something to that effect). Clearly, he has not been won over by Clinton's campaign so far...whether or not she becomes the nominee, she needs to be challenged from the left. Maybe the triangulators will see where the enthusiasm can be found.

[dmosh42]

11. Bernie would be great for the Dem party due to his clarity on the main issues, unlike some of....

Hillary's 'fuzzy' views on things like taxation, bankers and trade policies. There's no doubt about Bernie's ability to call BS on Repuke lies about Soc Sec and medicare. And being someone who started voting in the 60s, I considered myself to be closer to the center, and Bernie's positions are all close to what I want.

[dhill926]

15. agreed....

[Bluenorthwest]

18. Never apologize for being corny in politics, it is about defining the soul of our Party. That's not

even corny. I think it is just a fact of the matter. Bernie will be a very popular candidate in Oregon. This will be good for the Party, the 2008 Primary was a gift to the Party, a thorn in DU's side but we gained voters like crazy and looked good doing it.

[DonCoquixote]

26. exactly

the 2008 Primary was a gift to the Party, a thorn in DU's side but we gained voters like crazy and looked good doing it.

whereas if this did not happen, the GOP would simply have more time to warm over old crap. Now they will have Bernie biting from the left, Hillary from the center, and they will get the sort of wounds that even Koch money cannot fix, same way even Mitt Money could not fix it.

[John Poet]

21. "Socialist"?! Pah!

I don't think such labels matter much anymore... and the Republicans have done a great job of inoculating future candidates against being harmed by such.

They spent years calling Democrats "liberals"...

Then they spent years calling Obama a "socialist".

When that didn't work, they started calling him a "communist".

The supremely ironic thing about it is, now that a REAL self-proclaimed socialist is running,
they'll say "but Bernie's a socialist!!!"

And everyone will say, "So what? I agree with what he's saying"

[Proud Liberal Dem]

23. I still think that Hillary is still the strongest contender

but we'll see.

[Thinkingabout]

27. I agree, she has experience on broad horizons needed by the president. She has

lots of foreign experience and understands national security.

[totodeinhere]

25. I think that Bernie is in this not as a spoiler but thinking he can win.

It's 18 months until the election which is an eternity in politics. He is certainly a long shot but don't write him off just yet. Lets see how this plays out.

[chknltl]

28. I give a flying paootie! Bernie Believer here.

I see democracy as the ability, the very will of the citizenry to determine their own fate. Our economic model of capitalism has unregulated itself to the point that it may have taken over our democracy....it surely runs all of the Republican Party, most of the Democratic Party and most of our media. Senator Sanders is well aware of our failing democracy. He told us more than once on Thom Hartmann's "Brunch with Bernie Hour" that he would not consider a run unless he believed that a groundswell revolution could rally to him. The very fact that this man has decided to run inspires me because I know he believes he can make it happen.

[Cosmocat]

30. I think I am supporting and voting for him

I have no faith in our electorate relative to him being able to "win" the nomination, and even less the general if he did and the republicans put their full focus on him.

But, he is about as right on policy as you can get, so it is worth supporting him.

[itcfish]

31. It's 2000 All Over Again

another Nader

[cali]

32. complete and ignorant horse shit

[DFW]

33. I think you'll find Bernie Sanders is the Anti-Nader

Ralph Nader cared about Ralph Nader. Bernie Sanders cares about everybody else.

That is a fundamental difference.

Bernie Sanders will support our ultimate nominee if he isn't it. Nader supported Nader.

That, too, is a fundamental difference.

[DFW]

34. One thing I'll bet plenty of right wingers don't know

Because he doesn't have a name like Goldberg or Finkelstein, I'll bet plenty of them that wouldn't vote for a Jew EVER care more about the label "Socialist" than they care about the name "Sanders," because to their ears, it doesn't "sound" Jewish.

Totally off theme, but as an example: my mom once had a friend who taught college in North Carolina. His family name was Lee, shortened generations ago from some longer Irish name. He was assigned an assistant, and was told her name was Mrs. Schwartz. When Mrs. Schwartz came into his office for the first time, both of them gaped at each other and started laughing. Mrs. Schwartz was a Chinese woman who had married a Jewish American, but expected to see an ethnic Chinese boss. Professor Lee, on the other hand, expected a Jewish assistant. Surprise!

[ellie]

35. GO BERNIE GO!

[Tom Rinaldo]

36. "But by running, he'll force a real and much needed debate."

Exactly. Most politicians master sound bites that allow them to skirt the heart of an issue to please as many as possible in a vague sort of way. Bernie masters sound bites that pierce through "sound good" fluff to get right to the heart of an issue. He is a bulldog in that way, he will not be deterred from raising the issues that matter to the middle class, to working Americans, and to all those being left behind by the 1%. With Bernie in the race it will be impossible for that "real and much needed debate" not to happen.

[joshcryer]

38. I don't like the "he can't win" crap.

There are so many variables that can happen it's a joke. His odds are as good as anyone elses.

[Timmy5835]

39. Who says Bernie can't win......

I'll tell you who says it, the media elites, AKA, the corporate oligarchy not the average American. Can Bernie win? Sure he can. Movement campaigns start all the time. Someone with a good message and the grassroots to back him can do amazing things. Now the elites will do anything to convince you otherwise. They have the money and the media to support their oligarchy vision. But we still have the votes and the numbers. A challenging endeavor? well yea, but most major shifts in policy always are. Don't listen to the media and the pundits, they are not the final say. Each one of us has that role, and each one of us can change history.

[Sunlei]

40. I agree with you, wish many more Ds would 'run for president' for the public exposure of issues.

A republican tactic, that works very well.

[kairos12]

41. Goldwater moved the Reich Wing forever right in 1964. We have been fighting on a sliding

political scale going right ever since. I hope the issues Senator Bernie brings up reverses this trend and we start fighting on our ground where any "compromise" still leaves the issue clearly on the left side of the scale.