2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIS CLINTON'S BENGHAZI DILEMMA REAL OR IMAGINARY?
How do we interpret Hillary Clinton's comment on Benghazi, "What difference does it make?" It was in reference to whether the terrorists were just out on a casual walk and decided to attack the embassy, or was this an official protest. And does it make any difference either way or at all. Four Americans died including Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens. The big question is, whose fault was it, and could it have been averted. David Brooks, conservative writer for the New York Times says it is not fair to blame Clinton since this all happened at an operational level that she can't be blamed for. Another report says that more protection was needed at the embassy and allege that Stevens asked for it, but there is no indication of which level of the State Dept. was responsible. Right now Hillary Clinton's congressional testimony is up for grabs due to scheduling problems. The committees chairman, Rep. Trey Gowdy has done his best to keep this in the news and it may be the reason for her recent drop in the polls.
http://nastyjackbuzz.blogspot.com/
GeorgeGist
(25,311 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)to read?
I think there were two Right Wing attempts to blame Hillary that failed and now Trey's kangaroo court wants to try again.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Its only because she is running for President they made up
the Benghazi attack.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,392 posts)but they made up/believe all of the conspiracy theories about it- but can't prove any of them, taking it from a tragedy to a sinister conspiracy of sorts.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)What lib's need concentrate on is what the GOP has failed to do
is govern,
The country's infrastructure is failing down the American people's
heads, and its because of the GOP.
Taxes cuts, are not a plan to keeping the roads usable.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)The actual decision to destroy Libya, based upon trumped-up bullshit about 'genocide,' is a much more abhorrent thing.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,392 posts)The Republicans were arguing semantics with her, she got irritated, and they got that soundbite from her. Nobody who is being honest would seriously argue that Hillary Clinton just didn't/doesn't care about Ambassador Stevens or the others whom died at the outpost. If there is truly something dark and sinister about Benghazi, it's a marvel that the Republicans, whom have investigated it to death, haven't uncovered this evil conspiracy to do.......something. Talk about beating a dead horse.
blm
(113,008 posts)Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 05:41 PM - Edit history (1)
he was NOT in charge of the dozens of agents and operatives on the ground there before, during, and after the attack?
Is the GOPs position that HRC and the State Dept took over the command of that CIA op?
Nah - they won't dare mention the truth about Benghazi when they have most of their base already believing their fairy tales.
swilton
(5,069 posts)Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Some of the same players,just a new POS accusation.
mcar
(42,278 posts)More RW talking points on DU.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)She was talking about what difference does it make what the spokesperson said on TV.
Another Day, another RW DU dump on Clinton
Wounded Bear
(58,598 posts)Sure I'll click over there. Right away.
Oh wait, I need to go take a shit first. Be right there.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)doing on DU!?
This horseshit was settled a long time ago!
What about MF Ronnie Rayguns and the Marine Barricks in Lebanon hmmmm?
What about all the attacks on us embassy during king Bushes reign hmmmm?
What about the fucking scum republicans that cut the security budget for embassies before the attack hmmmm?
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)quadrature
(2,049 posts)street thugs, my term
for the '17th of February Martyrs brigade'.
hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)Anytime somebody is killed or something bad happens, in retrospect things could have possibly been done to avert them.
The question is always whether NOT doing those things was somehow truly negligent. Benghazi? No.
quadrature
(2,049 posts)Samantha
(9,314 posts)In Washington, DC, there are always several perspectives from which to view a situation. The one that is constantly ignored by the Republican party is protocol. In a situation such as this one, it is always the Ambassador's shot to call.
This op ed reports that Stevens asked for assistance, but at the time, it was reported that he was contacted by a military officer who was ready to send in the cavalry so to speak, but Stevens declined the assistance. I do believe someone under his command might have requested help, but I do know that officially Stevens declined.
I personally THINK that Stevens underestimated the situation. Because his rapport with the local community was so exceptionally good, I think he did not believe he was actually in any harm. What he probably underestimated was the ire against the CIA clandestine operation in the back which participants of the attack were attempting to raid. It had been rumored the CIA held captives I believe 3 people whom the attackers wanted freed.
In cases of trouble, the administration defers to the Ambassador's call, and that is what happened here. No matter how much the Republicans wish this weren't true, ignoring the governing protocol which determines the call does not make Hillary Clinton responsible.
Sam
karynnj
(59,498 posts)that what happened at Benghazi was a tragedy, that resulted from the instability that many wanted to not believe. Part of the problem is that it was the result of the US intervening way beyond the initial call to help stop a genocide.
However, if anything, the Republicans were more gung ho about entering the conflict than the Democrats - so other than Rand Paul, this is unlikely something that HRC will be called on. The same goes for Syria. I suspect that the strategy of arguing in her book and in interviews last year that she wanted to more aggressively help the Syrian rebels is that it puts her position near that of McCain/Graham et al. This gives the Republicans little room to attack her on. Additionally, it means she did not support the actual policy and she can say aiding the rebels would have prevented ISIS.
Given the Republican position on Benghazi, it is hard to imagine that she will be challenged on whether we should have intervened. As to the questions of whether decisions were made on the safety of the consulate, these questions are likely not to play well.
But, in addition, to was the Libya policy wrong, there are two other issues.
1) One is whether the Obama administration was concerned with how this could affect the election and did that affect what they said. Here, this issue is 4 years old and I think most people understand and believe that ANYTHING said in September/October of a Presidential year will be parsed for political consequences.
In reality, this is the Republicans whining that this SHOULD have harmed the Obama campaign more than it did. (I personally think that Romney reaction within hours of the news - where he was the FIRST to conflate a statement mentioning the film made by the Cairo embassy BEFORE the attack with the attack - it possibly why it had little impact. He was disgusting and I think people reacted by feeling this was an unseemly reaction.)
It is also a pretty convoluted argument. The Obama administration did not hide the reality that the ambassador was killed. Even if a film were partly (or completely) to blame, the action STILL shows that terrorism existed there. The argument that a film caused it does not help a campaign argument. This all related back to the silly Republican tactic that the words "Islamic terrorism" were not said - and any others words "act of terror" don't count. I suspect that few people - not already in the far right - got that strange argument.
It is hard to believe that what did not resonate 2 months after it happened, will resonate 4 years later.
2) Can the Republicans make this a "cover up" story? The answer here is what exactly was covered up. We knew day one that terrorists killed 4 Americans including the ambassador. To me, the answer is of course not. However, I do think the committee's charges may morph if they find anything in any emails provided. (One variant of this, which does scare me is that I would not be surprised if there is a covert effort to get some right leaning businessmen or foreign leaders to look through THEIR email for anything - that was State Department related but not flattering. Then if even one of those emails is NOT included, they will claim that she did NOT hand over all relevant emails. Obviously if they tried this, it could backfire on them.)
In summary, I don't think there is any likelihood that the foreign policy decisions in Libya or the 2012 comments of Rice/ HRC/ Rhodes etc will create any problems. This may be a case that - like Ken Starr, who was supposed to look at Whitewater and ended up with Monica, Republicans are hoping to use their subpoena power on Benghazi to find something that sticks. At this point they already did get a lot of attention on the email story -- that without Benghazi might have never been known.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)CTyankee
(63,889 posts)that until or unless they have a shred of evidence to back up their "suspicions", we have paid for ENOUGH "investigative committees" in Congress.
"circus events" is exactly right. I was yelling this at Joe Scarborough earlier this week for attempting to dredge this old canard up again. I noticed he didn't continue to harp on it. Probably because one of his producers tapped him on the shoulder and said "give it up, Joe."
yellowcanine
(35,693 posts)DFW
(54,276 posts)Rove's/Murdoch's/Bonehead's/Gowdy's pursuing of "Benghazi" wouldn't be happening if they weren't terrified of facing a scandal-free Hillary in the 2016 election (we haven't even had a primary or a debate yet, and here they are, at battle stations as if the 2016 election were next Tuesday).
So they will come at her with all the fervor of Joe McCarthy chasing his Communists or Dick Cheney chasing his Weapons of Mass Destruction, with just about as much sincerity behind their actions, and just about as much justification for them.
But you knew that.
Didn't you, Jack?
quadrature
(2,049 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)lamp_shade
(14,816 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)yellowcanine
(35,693 posts)Which one are you?