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Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:04 AM

Trump Question

This will be my first OP on DUís GD: Primaries forum during the 2016 contest. Like previous primary contests, the current one too often seems the source a lot of nonsense, than can get in the way of meaningful discussions. Add to that, this: the topic that I am writing about was the source of some debate between myself and my younger son.

So, letís start with something that everyone here can agree upon: Donald Trump will never be president. I doubt that he has not entered the republican primary contest because he believes that he will be the republican nominee.

Now, maybe he hopes that there is some tiny chance. But only late at night, moments before he drifts into unconsciousness, does that thought enter his mind. Thus, the question: why did he enter?

My son says it is for the most obvious of reasons -- to get his name in the news, and to use that profile for some future capitalist venture. Fame and money, nothing more, nothing less.

I disagree. I think that Trump dislikes the Bush family -- likely in large part due to financial interests -- and is looking to damage Jeb Bush in the republican primaries. In a sense, what he is doing is similar to Ross Perot in 1992.

My son does not believe that Trump has the intellectual or emotional capacity to play such a role. I think that his public image is largely an act. Running in the primaries is part of that act, and damaging Jb Bush may well help him financially. But I think knee-capping Jeb is his primary motivation.

Your opinion, please?

Thanks,
H2O Man

38 replies, 1913 views

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Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply Trump Question (Original post)
H2O Man Jul 2015 OP
Old Codger Jul 2015 #1
H2O Man Jul 2015 #3
bigtree Jul 2015 #2
H2O Man Jul 2015 #4
daleanime Jul 2015 #5
ms liberty Jul 2015 #6
H2O Man Jul 2015 #11
ms liberty Jul 2015 #19
LiberalEsto Jul 2015 #7
H2O Man Jul 2015 #13
brooklynite Jul 2015 #8
H2O Man Jul 2015 #14
brooklynite Jul 2015 #33
H2O Man Jul 2015 #36
DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #9
H2O Man Jul 2015 #15
DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #16
H2O Man Jul 2015 #18
DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #20
Martin Eden Jul 2015 #10
H2O Man Jul 2015 #17
Martin Eden Jul 2015 #27
H2O Man Jul 2015 #29
Blus4u Jul 2015 #22
Sheepshank Jul 2015 #24
davidpdx Jul 2015 #12
H2O Man Jul 2015 #30
Gothmog Jul 2015 #21
DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #23
Mopar151 Jul 2015 #25
H2O Man Jul 2015 #31
Draug Jul 2015 #26
H2O Man Jul 2015 #32
abakan Jul 2015 #28
H2O Man Jul 2015 #34
CK_John Jul 2015 #35
raouldukelives Jul 2015 #37
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #38

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:09 AM

1. With trump

 

Quite possibly to the extent that they do not contradict one another both may very well apply.

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Response to Old Codger (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:15 AM

3. Very good!

Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:09 AM

2. Trump is a despicable man who has made many despicable remarks over the years

...and while 'kneecapping' Jeb may well be an ambition of his, I think self-aggrandizement trumps all other motivations of his for entering the race.

Btw, this forum does descend into the nonsensical, but so does GD on more than a few occasions. I think posting substantive things in this forum and sparking serious debate might be a challenge, but the noise and distractions are normal elements of any campaign. If you can keep your head above water over here, it's a good sign that you've got what it takes to break through the usual nonsense political campaigns bring with them.

All of that just comes with the territory and I don't believe it's exclusive to GDP.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:16 AM

4. Thanks!

At least you are able to identify Trump's positive attributes. I have trouble being objective, when it comes to a jackass like him. (grin)

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Response to bigtree (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:17 AM

5. +1

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:23 AM

6. Interesting theories, and both are strong possibilities...

And both can also be true. If your son were to accept that Trump has that intellectual and emotional capacity, both theories dovetail quite nicely when you add in Trump's narcissism. He does love only himself and his opinions on everything, and I can definitely see him doing it with either or both motives. He is really fond of being the cat thrown amongst the pigeons as well, so to be the one to upend the GOP primaries adds that thrill for him.

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Response to ms liberty (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:00 AM

11. Great answer!

I think you hit the nail on the head! Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #11)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:18 AM

19. No, my dear H2O Man, thank you!

So refreshing to have a rational, analytical conversation about politicians and current events - we should all do it more often. You set us an excellent example!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:41 AM

7. I think he just craves attention

 

and will do almost anything to get it. Pretty pathetic, actually.

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:01 AM

13. True.

The guy loves attention. He is pathetic. And he is a greedy snake.

Still, I think he has a larger agenda.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:42 AM

8. Not meaning to sound fussy...

...but GD is intended for discussion of the DEMOCRATIC Primary...

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:04 AM

14. By gosh,

what could possibly sound fussy or petty about raising a complaint about an OP/thread that has to do with who our candidate will eventually face in the general election? An OP/thread that has the ability to show what we have in common, rather than what divides us? That hardly belongs on this forum, now does it? (smile)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #14)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 06:36 PM

33. I didn't write the rules.....

My post is related to the Democratic primaries. Post in: General Discussion: Primaries

My post is about something else. Post in: General Discussion


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Response to brooklynite (Reply #33)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 10:53 AM

36. In the most literal sense,

my OP is about the Democratic primary ....for example, it illustrates the hate in American society; the characters our party faces -- and not just in the general election, but now, because the "undecided" voters do pay attention to the freak show; the potential power of several voting blocks; etc.

All of these demonstrate the need to have people here, in primary discussions, rise above attempts to make cheeky debaters' points, and find common ground -- even with those who may favor a different primary candidate.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:53 AM

9. That would be a mistake:

That would be a mistake:

My son does not believe that Trump has the intellectual or emotional capacity to play such a role.



The man finished second at his class in Wharton so he is obviously very bright... He just says what we wants because when you are loaded you have more leeway to be a jerk.


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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #9)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:05 AM

15. Key point!

Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:11 AM

16. I think Tweety as we call him makes some good points about Trump...

Chris Matthews says Trump represents what a lot of working class guys dream of being like if they were billionaires... They would run around with women young enough to be their granddaughters, think they have the solution to every ill that befalls man, and would say whatever is on their mind... I don't know if they would be as virulently anti-Latino though...


Throw in the fact that Trump really, really, ...really loves to fight.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #16)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:16 AM

18. Right.

Mr. Matthews (or "Chris," as I call him) tends to have insight on these issues. He is a highly intelligent man, with a lot of experience in politics. (His show would be far superior if he didn't have to follow the guidelines enforced by the corporate heads. The Plame scandal is the best example; it can be tough to report what you know, or keep your job, when the vice president is gunning for you.)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:20 AM

20. Trump is a gift to us...Somebody said he makes the others look reasonable

One can easily argue he tarnishes the whole brand...


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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:55 AM

10. Trump hurt his own business interests with his remarks about Mexican immigrants

This leads me to believe he lacks the intellectual capacity to devise a political strategy that will kneecap JEB. That doesn't mean he didn't enter the race (at least in part) to damage Bush, but if anything he is making Bush look more palatable by comparison.

Of the following I am certain:
Trump's ego far exceeds his intellect and merits. A presidential campaign putting him in the national spotlight feeds his inflated ego and narcissism -- and that motive "trumps" any other motives or personal vendettas.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:12 AM

17. Interesting.

Good points. Very good.

I suspect that Trump is less concerned with who he offends -- clearly, he has to know he couldn't possibly win the general election after his ugly attack on these immigrants, which should offend all people. I think he is attempting to harness the hatred and paranoia of the republican right-wing. which is unlikely to accept Jeb. By channeling, and giving voice to their diseased beliefs, he damages Bush in the primaries.

You could be right. But I really don't think his tactics are a coincidence.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #17)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:01 PM

27. "harness the hatred and paranoia of the republican right-wing"

I think they all try to do that, but Trump blows the dog whistle more loudly, proudly, and blatantly than most career politicians who understand that such overt toxicity hurts their chances at national office.

Whoever emerges from the Clown Car will likely be a more "mainstream" candidate the corporate oligarchy knows will represent their interests and can win the general election. The Clowns had to appease the rightwing diseased beliefs in the 2012 primary, but look who emerged in the end -- Mitt Romney, who wasn't much liked by the Teaparty faithful and was perceived to lack the ideological creds of many others in that primary.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #27)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:39 PM

29. Right.

We all remember after the 2012 presidential election, how many of the republican analysts decided their party needed to do "outreach" to various groups in the US. Hence, some are a bit more careful than others in appeals to the vile hatreds that define the republican party. Trump is going for the cheapest shots possible, attempting to gain the support of their party's grass roots.

I think that they may go for Scott Walker, if Jeb Bush proves too divisive. And for the exact reasons you note (per "mainstream". He is bland, but a little more sophisticated in his appeals to anger and hostility. It will be interesting to see how he comes across in their debates.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:22 AM

22. ^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

You win the kewpie doll,

Peace

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:06 PM

24. I don't doubt he makes shrewd business decisions.

 

Afterall, He has resurrected his brand from the bankruptcy ashes several times. I don't think he realized how his campaign rhetoric would bleed over into business. It's a hard lesson he has learned and while he tried damage control in the past, you can bet he will be more careful in future public announcements. Unfortunately, the caricature he has created may resonate with some knuckle draggers, but that will never be enough votes to put him into office.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:01 AM

12. In terms of this part....


My son says it is for the most obvious of reasons -- to get his name in the news, and to use that profile for some future capitalist venture. Fame and money, nothing more, nothing less.


With all due respect, I think your son is underestimating Trump. He is a smart savvy guy. Yes, he does have the emotional capacity of a 12 year old. But Trump also has the funds to run his campaign as long as he wants at whatever level he wants to (whether it be an aggressive campaign, or more of a bus tour campaign). He could easily stay in through super Tuesday even if he lost every previous contest.

Whether he wants to damage Jeb Bush, I'm not sure. I wouldn't mind seeing someone knee capping old Jeb. It would set the race wide open among the other candidates if Trump went in for the "kill" early.

Then again maybe this is all me saying I need to go to sleep................................

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:50 PM

30. I agree.

He definitely underestimates Trump. No doubt in my mind. And in life, it can be dangerous to underestimate the opposition -- a lesson that I've reviewed with him frequently while he competes in the sport of boxing.

It is a error to confuse Trump's public character, with the person he actually is. Which is not to say he doesn't have many of the attributes assigned to the public image -- the loud-mouthed, obnoxious, I'm-always-right-because-I'm-wealthy bit. (Can't think of a republican presidential candidate in the past 50 years who didn't fit that description.)

My son points to Trump's crap about President Obama's birth certificate as evidence to support his stance. I view that as proof the guy will say anything, to appeal to a segment of the public that is heavily invested in hatred.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:21 AM

21. Trump will never file a FEC financial disclosure report

Trump has only filed an intent to be a candidate form with the FEC and can delay filing his financial disclosure form for up to 120 days from his announcement. In his announcement, Trump claimed that the value of the Trump franchise was $4 billion. That claim would not be permitted on a FEC financial disclosure form and Trump's true net worth is no where near his claims. I expect Trump to participate in the first two debates and then drop out when the final deadline approaches for filing his financial disclosure forms

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #21)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:51 AM

23. My gf is an assistant controller at a real estate development company.

I suspect Trump is leveraged up the ying yang.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #23)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:15 PM

25. Laurence O'Donnel says as much.

That much of Hump's "wealth" is on paper. Further, he needs TV more than it needs him - for cash income, and a way to live a "mogul's" lifestyle on somebody else's dime.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #21)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:51 PM

31. Great point!

I agree 100%.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 12:35 PM

26. Trump is stirring the pot

 

and the pot, indeed, needs to be stirred.

But the biggest WTF with Trump is the tariffs he wants to impose. Anyone with his experience must know the deleterious effect this has always had--especially on the uneducated, lower-income people he's trying to rile up with this.

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Response to Draug (Reply #26)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:54 PM

32. Interesting.

Very good point. Thank you.

Getting a population to focus their hatred on an "enemy" -- as he does -- is the quickest way to get them to ignore their own low level of being, and blame that "enemy" for all their problems. In fact, they will be willing to finance the efforts that, as you note, would actually do them even more harm.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 01:16 PM

28. I think

He is an egocentric, attention whore, who believes he is so great he should be king. President is the best he can do in this country, so he'll take it. In his mind, he can't see he has as much chance of being president, as I do. I may have a better chance, I haven't pissed off a entire country and all it's people. BTW I agree with your son.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:00 PM

34. Yikes!

My older son & I just watched Trump being interviewed by J.D. Hayseed, on Newsmack. He was focused primarily on Jeb Bush.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 12:08 AM

35. IMO, at his age I think Trump was trying to go out in a blase. A sort of suicide by cop except

this was suicide by politics, although I'm not sure he was ready for the blowback or that it would be as strong or as quick.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 11:56 AM

37. I think he is a just an Ugly American.

An overgrown, spoiled, petulant child who would last about 5 minutes in any of our shoes or in any of the factories that make his shoes.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 10:45 PM

38. I think you are both correct. Trump does not have the emotional capacity to ruin Bush - and

although a brilliant business man, he must lack in intellectual capacity or he would realize if he could control his emotions he would have a better shot at winning.

I agree with you that he would probably love to "do in" Jeb....however, he's a part of the good ole boy's club. Caught a Fox interview - on that week we won ACA and Marriage Equality in the SC. Trump said that he had "already been called" about not playing nice with Jeb. Ergo....Trump will not hurt Jeb. Not because of dislike but because he will play the game. He knows he won't win - so why damage the repukes?

Personally...I think his numbers are gonna come down - and that the polls are lagging. How could they not? This is unfortunate because the more crazy they can show, the better off we are.

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