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Tue Jul 14, 2015, 09:43 PM

 

Oh Boy... Another Sanders Hit Piece By The New York Times... They Are Worried...

Check Out The Title.

************************************************************

Readersí Turn on Bernie Sanders: Idealism vs. Pragmatism (Just Win?)
The Upshot Staff - NYT
JULY 14, 2015

<snip>

Bernie Sanders called up Nate Cohn of The Upshot last week to explain why he thought he could win the Democratic nomination for president. That conversation was mostly about ideology versus class.

But some of our readers started a different debate: idealism vs. pragmatism. In the final few months of an election, when it becomes evident that a candidate you support has no chance, is it better to continue that support (and possibly abstain from voting) or to rally around your partyís front-runner to prevent the opposing party from winning?

Another example of idealism vs. pragmatism: Ralph Naderís candidacy in 2000, or if Donald Trump decides to run as an independent in 2016.

Retina McCormack, USA

Too many think that a Bernie vote is a throwaway vote. Not me ó Iím making a statement: Iím tired of this Plutocratic Oligarchy that has taken over the past several decades. Gazillionaires do NOT have my interests in mind and they do NOT speak my language. While I donít agree with everything Bernie says, I donít agree with anything the ultra-wealthy have to say ó I will not throw away my vote on status quo anymore.

John McGloin, Staten Island, NY

Exactly. Voting for the lesser evil is voting for evil. If everyone voted for someone they thought was actually a good candidate, instead of someone they were told ďcan win,Ē good candidates could actually win.

Notafan, New Jersey

If he trips up Mrs. Clintonís candidacy and causes her to lose, then woe unto the senator who will be the most hated man in America, hated by the howling Republican mobs who despise what he believes but hated more by Democrats like me because he will have caused us to forfeit the next five seats on the Supreme Court, which will be filled by appointees of the next president. Thatís not 4 years but 40 years of the kind of place America will be for our children and grandchildren.

Sanders is a far greater threat to the liberal agenda than any Republican, and if he falls in love with running for president so much as to contemplate a third-party candidacy, then he will surely be the selfish old fool who guaranteed a Republican White House next time around. There is only one thing that matters in the 2016 presidential election: winning. If you donít get that, I have two words for you: George Bush.

<snip>

More: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/15/upshot/readers-turn-on-bernie-sanders-idealism-vs-pragmatism-just-win.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0



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Reply Oh Boy... Another Sanders Hit Piece By The New York Times... They Are Worried... (Original post)
WillyT Jul 2015 OP
AgingAmerican Jul 2015 #1
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #2
AgingAmerican Jul 2015 #8
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #11
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #14
sheshe2 Jul 2015 #17
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #25
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #34
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #38
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #59
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #60
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #61
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #62
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #63
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #64
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #73
sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #68
sheshe2 Jul 2015 #69
sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #70
sheshe2 Jul 2015 #71
sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #72
GoneFishin Jul 2015 #43
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #75
kenfrequed Jul 2015 #58
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #10
DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #40
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #41
DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #42
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #44
DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #46
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #47
DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #48
greatauntoftriplets Jul 2015 #52
wicket Jul 2015 #51
sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #66
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #67
daleanime Jul 2015 #3
WillyT Jul 2015 #5
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #4
WillyT Jul 2015 #6
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #7
WillyT Jul 2015 #9
Segami Jul 2015 #13
WillyT Jul 2015 #15
Segami Jul 2015 #12
peacebird Jul 2015 #37
Sheepshank Jul 2015 #22
Thinkingabout Jul 2015 #26
PatrickforO Jul 2015 #16
winter is coming Jul 2015 #18
Thinkingabout Jul 2015 #29
winter is coming Jul 2015 #49
Thinkingabout Jul 2015 #50
winter is coming Jul 2015 #55
Thinkingabout Jul 2015 #56
Ed Suspicious Jul 2015 #57
Simeon Salus Jul 2015 #19
cyberswede Jul 2015 #20
Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #21
onecaliberal Jul 2015 #76
mythology Jul 2015 #23
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #28
sheshe2 Jul 2015 #24
Thinkingabout Jul 2015 #30
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #27
mmonk Jul 2015 #31
madokie Jul 2015 #32
DanTex Jul 2015 #33
BlueJazz Jul 2015 #35
peacebird Jul 2015 #36
quickesst Jul 2015 #39
GoneFishin Jul 2015 #45
LWolf Jul 2015 #53
99Forever Jul 2015 #54
Doctor_J Jul 2015 #65
zappaman Jul 2015 #74

Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 09:47 PM

1. All 'Pragmatism' got us with Obama was

 

...a bunch of bad deals with the GOP where we got nothing and they got everything.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 09:54 PM

2. And the ACA and the recent Iran nuclear deal and a triple growth in green energy growth ...

 

and a bunch of other stuff, you forgot to mention.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:24 PM

8. I don't recall any of those being "Deals with the GOP"?

 

How many votes did the ACA get from Republicans?
Zero

Iran nuke deal? Hasn't been in front of Congress yet, but: Republicans have warned that the accord will face a wall of resistance in the GOP-controlled Congress

Green energy? I don't recall any deals with the GOP on green energy. Please tell us about them. I do recall Obama fulfilling Sarah Palin's 'drill baby drill' pledge though.

What did we get out of the sequester? Pain and suffering. What did we get in return for the 'grand bargains' where Boehner got 95% of what he wanted?

Nothing but austerity.

Compromise! Compromise! Compromise! isn't pragmatic. It's awful, particularly when the people you are compromising with are psychopaths seeking to destroy you.

All Obama's 'pragmatism' did was drive the country further to the right.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #8)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:27 PM

11. Wait ... wasn't it you that said all we got was ...

 

A bunch of bad compromises?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:37 PM

14. Well,

There were cases (single payer not even at the table, for example), where I wondered whether either the man had never bought a car or was at least partway in the pocket of, again, corporations. Quite possibly he thought it was the best he could do, although that's not where you start a negotiation from, last I heard.

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #14)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:50 PM

17. Well

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) reminded the progressive media gathered on Capitol Hill today that single-payer health care reform was dead before it started in the Senate.

"It would have had 8 or 10 votes and that's it
," he said, addressing a topic central in the minds of many who the bloggers and left wing talk show hosts gathered for the 4th annual Senate Democratic Progressive Media Summit in Washington reach everyday.

Sanders is among the few in the Senate not afraid to say he supports government-run, universal health care. But his calls for such a program have gone unanswered, much to the chagrin of progressives who still feel it is the best way to solve the nation's health care crisis.


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-single-payer-never-had-a-chance

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 05:55 AM

25. Good point on the vote,

but to my recollection single-payer had no place at the table from the very beginning, was not even considered from the very beginning. Bernie's a pretty good demonstration that you don't know what people will get enthused about until you put it in front of them, and the single-payer idea wasn't, again IIRC.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:15 AM

34. Oops, oops! I just realized I meant "public option,"

Which probably changes your and my responses.

Didn't do it on purpose, honest - it's been a long time since that debate, and I was up past when I should have been last night.

Got to go to work now - realized my mistake in the shower.

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #34)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:58 AM

38. The Public Option did not the votes, either. ...

 

It would have, possibly, gotten more, but the Whip determined not enough Democratic votes to put into a bill that already was looking at razor thin margins.

And the millions of now insured, are thankful Pelosi and Co. can count ...ETA: went with what was real rather than what was wished for.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #38)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 03:18 PM

59. Yeah, I just wish

he'd used the bully pulpit a little more, and not completely shut out the public option supporters, which he did IIRC.

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #59)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:17 PM

60. The time for the bully pulpit had passed ...

 

before the legislation was written.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #60)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:30 PM

61. Yes, exactly.

It *was* written on his watch, wasn't it? Or am I completely messed up?

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #61)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:37 PM

62. Yes. It was written on his watch ...

 

typically, the bully pulpit precedes the written of the bill.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #62)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:44 PM

63. Right. And to my recollection it didn't, at least with regard to the public option.

I recall that as being written off from the beginning, no attempt whatsoever to sell it or even run it up the flagpole and see who saluted.

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #63)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 08:21 PM

64. You don't think the PO was run up the flagpole with Democratic legislators? n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #64)

Thu Jul 16, 2015, 06:24 PM

73. Oh, I certainly do.

Who it wasn't sold to was the people, the court of public opinion, who could at least have attempted to push the legislators. And the idea would at least have gotten some publicity.

So nothing might have come of it - something might have. To go with what I think was the theme of this OP, I don't think many people expected what is happening with Bernie. And at least it wouldn't have been written off from the very beginning, and the representatives of that viewpoint, IIRC, completely shut out.

My impression has always been that he starts his negotiations at the point where he thinks they are going to end. I haven't negotiated much, but that's not the idea as I understand it.

Anyhow, thanks for the conversation. I think I've said everything I had to say, probably too many times....!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 10:15 PM

68. What a shameful thing that Democrats failed the people so badly. No wonder

Bernie, who as the article states, is doing so well. If only we had not had so many Corporate Dems Bernie would have had the support he needed to get what the PEOPLE want rather the Corps who pay for our government now, winning. It's been a great racket for them, but the people are far more informed now than they were then when they were PUZZLED by the Reps they though worked for them.

Great article and shows just how important it is now that we fix this rigged system and let the PEOPLE support Bernie since we know that our Corporate funded Dems will always do what is best for Corporations.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #68)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 10:18 PM

69. Snort!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #69)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 10:22 PM

70. A very in depth response. I completely understand!

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #70)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 10:24 PM

71. As was yours~

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #71)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 10:58 PM

72. I never have a problem stating, in depth if necessary, what I think.

One word doesn't do it for me usually. But as I already said your one word was perfectly clear and understandable.

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 07:30 AM

43. I thought MAYBE that could be the case, until I saw how hard he is fighting and arm twisting for TPP

Now I know that in those instances when it felt like he sold us out it is because he indeed sold us out.

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Response to GoneFishin (Reply #43)

Thu Jul 16, 2015, 10:16 PM

75. Ain't that the simple truth.

Yes, the man has done good things, and I thank him. Yes he is ultimately in thrall to the corporations. As are most of them. Do they not realize that we were founded on a rebellion against a corporation?

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 09:16 AM

58. I agree that went poorly

There is plenty of blame to spread to spread around on the lack of single payer or a public option with regards to the ACA.

President Obama should probably have negotiated a bit more aggressively, but he had a group of blue dogs that were squatting on the the finance committee that wouldn't let that even be considered for a vote. Max Bacchus deserves a lot more blame than anyone for screwing us out of at least having a public option.

President Obama also had the worst Chief of staff to serve a democratic president in my memory. Rahm Emmanuel did him no favors, was intensely abrasive, and tended to alienate progressives as just a matter of habit. I know why he had to do it, I just wish he had found other places to put conservative democrats where they would do less harm.

I have to cut the president even more a break because in trying to find compromise he thought he was doing the right thing. I knew they had no interest in any compromise ever with the president but again his advisors were not helpful.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:26 PM

10. Absolutely right, and appreciated, but

IMHO, all our mainstream candidates and elected officials, at least at the upper levels, are at least in part in thrall to corporations.

Uncontrolled corporations are, again IMHO, the root of our problems. We the people are supposed to control *them*, not the other way around.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 07:05 AM

40. FIXED, Brah

And the ACA. marriage equality, amnesty for undocumented workers, rapprochement with Cuba, pay for overtime, and the recent Iran nuclear deal and a triple growth in green energy growth ... and a bunch of other stuff, you forgot to mention.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #40)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 07:28 AM

41. I was on my phone and ...

 

The letters are so small.



But it is so comically reflexive with theseveral folks, isn't it?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #41)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 07:30 AM

42. Barack Obama has been a transformational and consequential president

Barack Obama has been a transformational and consequential president and history will be much kinder to him than his detractors.

Oh, we forgot...He ended the Great Recession...

God bless Obama.


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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #42)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 07:34 AM

44. Yes he has ...

 

I can't wait for time to pass so that DU can remind us how supporive they were throughout his presidency!

It will be this generation's, "I was at Woodstock/Altamont" story.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #44)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 07:37 AM

46. Brah, I was able to do it.

God's truth...I now have my historical hero and my contemporary one in my avatar and signature.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #46)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 07:46 AM

47. Well ...You know what they say about big hands ...

 

And thick fingers, right?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #47)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 07:55 AM

48. My mom met the GOAT in 1986. She said he was so handsome and my mom met Harry Belafonte at the Copa.

My mom worked for HUD in the 80s in the federal building in Orlando which also was the home of the district court. Muhammad Ali was there testifying as a character witness for one of his friends. During a break he sat down to sign autographs and my mom told him "my son loves you" and he asked what my name was. He autographed a piece of paper with my mom's name on it. I have it framed along with the iconic photo of him standing him over Sonny Liston after he knocked him out.


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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #44)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 08:47 AM

52. I'll laugh my ass off when that happens. And it will.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 08:43 AM

51. Wish I could rec comments

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 09:48 PM

66. I supported Single Payer, Obama, in the campaign, opposed Mandated Ins.

I wouldn't remind people of that. Many have not forgotten those broken promises. We got MEDICAL INSURANCE Reform.

I agree with the Iran Deal because we know the usual war mongers are itching for War with Iran especially since none of them were held accountable for the war crimes they committed, the lies they told to get us involved in forever war in the ME which had ZERO to do with 9/11.

We get some crumbs when Dems are in power, Repubs get crumbs when they are in power.

It's a great system for those in power, not so much for the average American.

Now we want way more than that. And sooner or later the people are going to demand it in such massive numbers that we will get it. This MAY be the time, or it may be the beginning of the turnaround, either way, we are definitely in a way different place than we were a decade ago. The winds of change are blowing and it's making a whole lot of people very nervous.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #66)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 09:59 PM

67. Okay. n/t

 

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 09:55 PM

3. When I read articles like that, all I get is....

"your opinions mean shit to us."

Do you think that's an accident?

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Response to daleanime (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 09:57 PM

5. Nope...

 




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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 09:57 PM

4. So who is "worried" when HRC or MO pieces show up. n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:01 PM

6. I Think Were At Stage 3 Now...

 




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Response to WillyT (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:22 PM

7. Did that answer my question? n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:26 PM

9. I Don't Know What A MO is...

 


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Response to WillyT (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:28 PM

13. Martin O'malley

 

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Response to Segami (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:41 PM

15. Oh... I Thought It Was Modus Operandi...

 



Thanks... I really didn't know.




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Response to WillyT (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:27 PM

12. YUM!

 

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Response to WillyT (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:33 AM

37. Bingo!

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 11:47 PM

22. Was thinking the very same thing.

 

Such a lame assumption, especially when one realizes the ratio of anti Hillary posts vs. anti Bernie posts. With that standard now in effect I'd say Bernistas are very much more worried.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:02 AM

26. Good point

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:46 PM

16. Well, I'm firmly in the idealist camp.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:52 PM

18. I'm enough of a pragmatist to realize we're nowhere near "the last few months of an election".

Also, that if Bernie can "damage" Hillary as a candidate, so can anyone else. If she's that fragile a candidate, we should be looking elsewhere.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:04 AM

29. Is this the object of Bernie campaign? wow

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #29)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 08:33 AM

49. No. Nor did I imply it. The article in the OP did. n/t

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #49)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 08:40 AM

50. What does this mean:


"Also, that if Bernie can "damage" Hillary as a candidate, so can anyone else. If she's that fragile a candidate, we should be looking elsewhere"

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #50)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 08:52 AM

55. It refers to the OP, which is regurgitating the bullshit meme that Sanders will run as a third

party candidate. It's not the last few months before November 2016. Sanders has said, more than once, that he won't run as a third party candidate and there's no reason to believe he will, as he's never shown Presidential aspirations before now. This article isn't truly about November 2016.

The real point of this article is to blow the "Bernie dangerous to Hillary!" "Bernie outsider!" "Protect the hive!" "We can't risk damaging our nominee in the primary process!" "Don't even think about voting for that socialist!" dog whistles. I utterly reject the notion that we shouldn't have a competitive primary process, especially when the rationale is that a competitive primary will cost us the general election. That's fear-based non-thinking, and really, so is much of the NYT article in the OP.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #55)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 08:56 AM

56. Yes, having a healthy primary with healthy debates is the correct way to do a primary. We have the

clown car from the GOP for entertainment. The RW will bash us enough and probably several posters here are trolls and continue with the same talking points though they have been debunked several times, still they return.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #55)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 09:04 AM

57. yup.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 11:08 PM

19. What good will it do for people to win the whole world...

...and lose their souls in so doing? Or what will a person give for their soul?

Just win? At what cost? Scare tactics don't impress me.

Sure I want to win, and I think all three of our progressive candidates would be superior to any of the Bialystoks and Blooms the GOPs have up for grift. (I still don't include Webb, who while an honorable fellow and a genuinely good man, is not my choice as party leader; too third-way for me.)

On the other hand, why do we even hold primaries if we are to be told exactly who we MUST favor before they're even held?

We need primaries in order to activate the electorate and get issues on the table. Warren's not running, so Bernie needed to do so. The race needed an honest-to-god bleeding heart liberal (I consider that a compliment). I'm really excited about the Sanders campaign. I may work for him locally. If Hillary prevails, I'll work for her.

I still believe the reason Dems won in 2008 was the long, hard fought primary season. We were told then that Hillary was inevitable. I started off as a Wesley Clark supporter but came over to Obama during the primaries. Primaries make state organizations stronger. This is essential to a national win.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 11:15 PM

20. What's your issue with the title? Just curious.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 11:28 PM

21. I have two words for the New York Times:

Judith Miller.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 16, 2015, 10:23 PM

76. ^^That^^

Wish they would realize not everyone has the attention span of a gnat.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 11:51 PM

23. I fail to see how this in any way shape or form can be classified as a "hit piece"

 

Just because it doesn't fawn over your preferred candidate doesn't actually make it a hit piece.

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Response to mythology (Reply #23)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:04 AM

28. Could it be because the central theme of the entire piece

is about behaving like we're in the 'final few months' of the campaign and abandoning the candidates who aren't already in first place? Even though we basically have barely started the campaign?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 12:40 AM

24. I'm not worried.

Not at all.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:06 AM

30. Agreed.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:02 AM

27. Laugh.

In the final few months of an election, when it becomes evident that a candidate you support has no chance


Cause we're in the final few months of the campaign. Oh wait, we've barely begun, haven't even hit the first debate. Yeah, this is really the time for 'that' conversation. Notafan sounds like a Clinton DUer.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:08 AM

31. Well all I have to say is (borrowing from The Who):

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fold, that's all

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:12 AM

32. Some here are too

I don't want to hear that some one is electable cause they raise a lot of money. I want to hear that one should vote for someone based on what they say, do and plan for us.
fuck this noise that Bernie can't win bullshit. Hide and watch he'll be our next President. Just because a lot of us ain't buying into the lying ass bullshit that we've been fed for way too long now.

I take voting very seriously and I don't throw my vote away nor do I not vote and I dog damn sure ain't going to vote for a republiCON and thats that.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:14 AM

33. Hmm. So now letters to the editor from readers are a "hit piece".

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:21 AM

35. It's 481 days until the election. If Americans can't come up with a decent candidate in that..

 

... length of time, one who will try to make life better for the working class then shame, shame on them.
I, like a lot of other people here, do not throw away my values just because I'll settle for 2nd or 3rd best.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:32 AM

36. Clearly the powers that be are afraid, like the Wizard of Oz they hide behibd a curtain pretending

To be All Powerful. Then here comes a Truth Teller and they are terrified that people will actually follow him!

What stage are we at now? First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then....

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 07:01 AM

39. If hit pieces....

...on Bernie Sanders are an indication of worry in the Clinton camp, then Bernie's DU posters have got to be scared shitless.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 07:34 AM

45. Screw worrying about what THEY say. Vote for who you believe will do the best job.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 08:48 AM

53. Is that an attempt

to derail Sander's momentum by scaring supporters into resigning themselves to losing before a single vote or caucus is done?

It somehow sounds familiar.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 08:51 AM

54. Pragmatism. How neoliberals say...

....let the 1% and Republicans have everything they want.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Wed Jul 15, 2015, 09:39 PM

65. having a corporate boot licker as a president is not pragmatic

 

President Clinton will continue Obama's handover of the government to bankers, Monsanto, Wal-Mart, the Bush family (education), and oil companies. What's pragmatic about that? We lost 50 house seats and 15 Senate seats in six years due to Obama's contempt for liberals and liberal ideas. That's enough.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #65)

Thu Jul 16, 2015, 06:35 PM

74. Yeah!




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