2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI'm a woman and I support Hillary Clinton.....
When in 2015, I see someone say that some women won't vote or support Hillary because she didn't leave her husband when their marriage was going through a rocky period, not to mention it was all being smeared across the tabloid press at the time.....tells me that people who say that do not know what Hillary Clinton is all about AT ALL.
I love Hillary Clinton. She has been a hero to me as a woman for much of my adult life. She is a fantastic mother, she's a wife who loves her husband and who has stood by him through thick and thin, for better or worse. She has never, ever run from a fight. For anyone to pass judgement on her for not abandoning her marriage is incredibly sad that they just dont 'get' Hillary.
Hillary has paved paths for women like no woman has before her. She took on the battle for National Healthcare before it's time....but that didn't stop her from trying. She paved the way for what would take two more decades to achieve....and even now, the thought of National Healthcare is still being attacked.
When it comes to women's issues, children's issues, education and other social issues, she has fought for what is important and been a true champion around the world for them.
After 8 years of George Bush, she travelled over a million miles to 112 countries restoring the reputation of America and repairing the damage that the Bush administration had wrought. She was relentless and undaunted and she damned well did her job....and did it better than I think anyone else could. While she was restoring America's reputation she was also still fighting for women's and children's rights around the world.
So if Hillary decided to stay with her husband and decided that her marriage was worth fighting for....all those that want to judge her for doing so can kiss my feminist ass and grow themselves a vagina.
Thank you for allowing me to get up on my soapbox.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)When people drag this old news out, its hard to believe they're dems. They sound just like Rush and Drudge.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)I selected her as the back up in case we can't insert a Bush family member by name. Just like her husband I hand picked her as she is an "honorary" Bush family member.
SCantiGOP
(13,868 posts)Think you're getting senile, Poppy.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)SCantiGOP
(13,868 posts)George Bush has endorsed Clinton? That's what passes for 'reality' these days?
If we disagree, let's at least try to discuss things rationally and remember that, at the end of the day, we're on the same team.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Clinton is the Bush enterouge back up candidate.
SCantiGOP
(13,868 posts)It's batshit crazy, in the same league as FEMA tunnels under Texas WalMarts.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)calimary
(81,193 posts)BooScout
(10,406 posts)You know it and I know it....and more importantly the GOP knows it and can't do one freaking thing about her except make spurious attacks on her that she smacks down with aplomb.
I would say 'nice try' regarding your spurious attack....but in all honesty, it's pretty pathetic.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)SamKnause
(13,091 posts)I don't give a squat about her personal life.
I don't care who stays married or gets divorced.
She is not trustworthy.
She is too friendly with Wall Street.
She is too willing to support wars and invasion.
She is too willing to give tax cuts to corporations.
She lied and included her daughter in that lie. (Sniper fire in Bosnia)
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)There's way too much at stake.
riversedge
(70,182 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)party is at stake.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Republicans thank you for your lack of participation.
840high
(17,196 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Thank you in advance.
ismnotwasm
(41,975 posts)*sigh*
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)I think I'm being pretty reasonable here.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)They frown on that here in Minnesota. I fairly certain it just might get your ass arrested. Even put curtains on the booths so people with nose problems can't stick them into other people's PRIVATE business.
Must suck to live somewhere there isn't a secret ballot.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)How do you plan to enforce it?
Telepathy? Spy cameras? Hypnotism?
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Martin Eden
(12,862 posts)Loyalty must be earned, and far too many elected Democrats have betrayed The People they ostensibly represent.
I vote for good public policy, and for results.
Sadly, the choice often comes down to status quo vs horrible public policy.
I will vote AGAINST Republicans in the general election, but my faith in the American Dream dies a little bit every time I do that instead of casting my vote FOR a candidate I truly believe in.
I don't think I'm alone in this regard.
I also think GOTV -- motivating people to come to the polls who often don't bother -- is the key to winning the White House and regaining the houses of Congress. The People need/want something to vote FOR.
I believe in Bernie Sanders.
I cannot in good conscience vote for Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary, partly because of her close ties to Wall Street but mostly because of her vote for the IWR. That's a deal breaker for me, period.
I will vote in the general election, and if my blue state of Illinois is even close to being up for grabs I will vote for the Dem presidential candidate regardless of who it is.
If that candidate is Hillary Clinton, I will vote AGAINST the Republican.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You should repost that as an op.
BRAVO!
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)This is probably a much better way to respond to those who say they refuse to vote for Hillary or Bernie in the general. Just say "please vote against Republicans", rather than staying home...even if it makes you die a little bit inside each time. It's still better than the real people who will die a real death because of Republican policies if we lose the White House in 2016...especially if that means more conservative Supreme Court nominees.
It's not all about you. Your vote matters for everyone, not just you. (You in general, not you Martin)
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)They really need to calm down.
They're turning people off to Hillary.
ismnotwasm
(41,975 posts)Some of the responses are not, and that's really sad and pathetic.
840high
(17,196 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)London Lover Man
(371 posts)And you can thank the inept campaign staff of Clinton's for not fully preparing her against the progressive wave.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)They bring nothing of value.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)is now discouraged and of "no value."
840high
(17,196 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)On Thu Jul 16, 2015, 09:56 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
U don't get shit. I'll vote for Bernie.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=450019
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Vulgar reply that is uncalled for.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jul 16, 2015, 10:23 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It is a vulgar reply, but it's also an easy idiom (Doesn't require much thought) and not over the top. Perhaps the best way to ensure we get every Democratic vote after the Primaries, is to not burn bridges at this early juncture.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This alert is for real? This alert is just......argh spare me.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Stand up to the bullies.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)If you think Clinton supporters are bullies, then this ought to scare the shit out of you.🐀
Walk away
(9,494 posts)the Democratic candidate in the general election) are gone! It really stinks up the place!
BainsBane
(53,027 posts)London Lover Man
(371 posts)Massive progressive wave with Bernie as the head is heading towards 2016.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)London Lover Man
(371 posts)Are you committed to voting for Bernie at the end?
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)I just spent 10 minutes of my life typing "Just make sure you vote for the 2016 Dem nominee" into numerous posts here. Pffft. Will you be voting for 2016 Dem nominee?
London Lover Man
(371 posts)But for Clinton, I must be stinking drunk to fill out the ballot and then sober enough to place two stamps on it and mail it in.
Duval
(4,280 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)might suggest the imperative necessity of working to insure that a person so many of us will not vote for doesn't become the nominee.
George II
(67,782 posts).... to be "at stake" after four years.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)If Martin or Hillary wins then I will vote for them. Cheers!
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Aren't you guys the ones constantly complaining that Sanders' supporters are trying to control who DUers vote for?
Hypocrites.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)nominee? I've been here a long time, I don't ever remember a time when it was cool to say "if candidate X wins the primaries,I'm not voting democratic",do you?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I don't think it's liberal to demand loyalty to any candidate.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)You're completely ignoring what I said.I'll say it again this way, on DU you can argue for whomever you want during the primaries but what you've never been able to do here is advocate not voting for the democratic nominee or a third party,is that not true? Surely you're not really saying that anyone on any forum can actually demand you vote a certain way? All forums have rules,the only thing capable of being "forced" here is the TOS.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)That's telling someone who to vote for.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Claiming that someone can "tell you who can actually vote for" is pure,silly hyperbole.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Sorry you can't see that but considering who your candidate is I'm not surprised you expect everyone here to swear out a loyalty oath.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)Because that's all that was said...
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Don't tell me who to vote for.
Period.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)The post didn't tell you WHO to vote for. No one was named except for the primary winner.
So just answer the poster's question about the primary winner or move on. Quit spinning.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)That's telling someone who to vote for.
I believe you're the one guilty of that.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)"Just make sure you vote for the 2016 Dem nominee"
Are you saying that couldn't be Bernie?
That's how it's obvious you are spinning.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It's a sacred duty and I take it seriously.
This isn't a game to me.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)"This isn't a game to me."
Yes, deciding whether to vote for the Dem 2016 primary winner is so tough, lol. Uh huh.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But then after 2008 nothing surprises me.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)See how you spun that?? That's what I'm talking about...
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)They wore that label proudly just a few short years ago.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)"they"
You are still spinning the fact that the question in this thread was about the 2016 Dem Primary winner. Just answer the question or move on. Quit spinning.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Why?
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)Oh dear.... I've seen this scam before.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Why should I?
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)Nice spin.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)with nothing but unrelated spin. Its' either intentional spin or willful misrepresentation.
We're starting over now with this whole charade now as this was my response upthread; remember?
Post No. 5:
"Just make sure you vote for the 2016 Dem nominee.
There's way too much at stake."
The question was about voting for the Dem 2016 Primary winner. No one knows yet who that is, so it's a yes or no question. This isn't tough if you honestly answer the question instead of axe grinding.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Honestly.
And I've already explained how I would vote if Bernie doesn't win the nomination.
I just resent it when people are badgered about it.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)it's not who you've directed any posts to. It was a simple question about the 2016 Dem Primary winner. Not hard to answer. It's not honest to twist something so simple as Post No. 5 into a 20-something-response subthread of feigned confusion.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Got it?
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)You can still buy at cafe press
Here's a little article on who they were and where they are now
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/they-were-hillary-clintons-die-hard-loyalists-heres-where-they-are-now/2015/05/02/82025cf2-e92a-11e4-aae1-d642717d8afa_story.html
They existed, still exist. They really don't like being told what to do. I understand..
Bryce Butler
(338 posts)On Thu Jul 16, 2015, an alert was sent on the following post:
Watching PUMAs tell Sanders supporters to vote for the nominee is hypocrisy squared.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=450101
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Calling Hillary supporters PUMA's is an insult.Especially considering that Clinton/Obama supporters on DU seem to be one and the same. It's an insult aimed at painting Clinton supporters as DUers who did not vote for Obama.It's a stereotype created by Rove and pushed by Rush.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jul 16, 2015, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter needs to toughen up. This comment is not worth a hide.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: puma was a pac that was in protest of bo's nomination. I believe the poster was tring to point out that hrc supporters now want bs supporters to accept her inevitability. Given the history of puma, the hypocrisy angle is a fair argument to make imo.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Alerter either needs a history lesson or a spanking for being so dishonest.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)"Just make sure you vote for the 2016 Dem nominee.
There's way too much at stake. "
To twist that into saying someone is telling you who to vote for is simply not honest.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'd hate to think someone wasted that alert and got a 24 hour break for nothing.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)Uh huh
btw, not my alert, but it looks like your motives are transparent to others.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Sanders supporters have rec squads and alert patrols who will try to silence you and purge DU of any and all dissent.
See chapter on Big Rec.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)I KNEW you weren't *that* confused..
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)demanding loyalty oaths and then turn around and try to smear them with the old Hillary supporters are disloyal PUMAs insult?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It's not like people forgot about what happened in 2008.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)or was it mostly a small group of malcontents that the GOP gave disproportionate attention to out of mischief? Have you ever seen the breakdown of democratic primary voters who voted for Obama after their candidate lost? It's out there,do some googleing. Are you accusing Hillary supporters here on DU of being PUMAs?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And I'm not accusing you of anything.
It's nobody's business who they vote for.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Especially the last one. It shows a distinct lack of character. Creating fairy tales about war for personal gain is disgusting and lacks honor.
-
Oh, and before I click post. I know someone is going to respond with misdirection stating "Bush did this...." or "Bernie did that..." It isn't relevant. We're talking about someone running for office who lied about an experience that our soldiers go through everyday. It is quite frankly, offensive.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)SamKnause
(13,091 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Thank you.
SamKnause
(13,091 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)SamKnause
(13,091 posts)Well said.
SamKnause
(13,091 posts)timdog44
(1,388 posts)And I feel the same way.
Is she a Democrat
Or is she a republican is all I care.
Does not matter what she claims on the ticket
peacebird
(14,195 posts)I do not care about her personal life, I do not care about her gender.
I do care that she lied about coming under sniper fire.
I care that she states she will not reinstate Glass Steagal
i care that she will not break up the too big to fail banks
i care that she voted FOR the Iraq war
i care that she talks hawkishly about Iran.
I do not trust her, and for the record she was NOT "dead broke" when they left the White. House
Rockyj
(538 posts)even if she wins the primary.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)strike me as disingenuous. Anyone who has read or followed the Clinton's personal story can see that their attraction has a large element of fierce intellectualism to it, and they are both true intellectuals probably unrivaled in ordinary circles. They have a rich and deep history together, not easily thrown away. So attacks on Hillary without considering the depth of their relationship don't ring true.
Great points, BooScout!
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Fearless
(18,421 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,975 posts)I always figured she didn't leave her husband because of the politics of the time-- Republicans were out for blood, one phony scandal after another. So they find a real one. Several male polititical figures who pointed fingers at Bill Clinton got busted for similar or worse behavior later on.
I don't have privy to Clintons hearts or their bedroom. Her decision then was her business, but it helped Clinton's career and legacy, turned the scandal into another Teflon moment.
And She certainly bounced back didn't she? Yes indeed look at her now. Madame president has an awfully nice ring to it
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Bill's many failings are his to own.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)that the vast majority of people adamantly opposed to Hillary have judged her on her own merits and found her lacking.
The argument that we're opposed to her because she didn't leave her husband is a strawman meant to marginalize opposition to that free-trading war-hawk corporate-interests-over-people fake-Democrat.
I don't care if she leaves her husband...if she wants to stay with him, that's her decision. I care that Hillary has never met a corporatist interest that she won't sell her constituents down the river for; I care that she's an opponent and not a champion of bedrock Democratic values and ideals.
I care that she's just not worth voting for.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Tikki
(14,556 posts)I will support the Democratic nominee in the General Election.
Tikki
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Who should I vote for?
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)and she happens to be a woman. I'm a proud supporter of HRC. I'm especially excited that we have wonderful odds to keep the White House with HRC as our candidate.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)No woman should automatically support Hillary just because she's a woman. But if you have what you find are good reasons to support her, that's quite different.
William769
(55,144 posts)Get up on your soapbox anytime you want.
Autumn
(45,042 posts)Ino
(3,366 posts)Could be she stayed with him because she thought it was the smart thing, the expedient thing, the thing that furthered her ambitions the most. That's the calculating Hillary I've seen -- the one who is always triangulating, strategizing, choosing her words oh-so-carefully, her silly canned "listening tour" (as if she didn't have a clue what the peons care about?), not taking a position on anything until she sees what will serve her plans best.
I don't really care why she did or didn't leave her husband. And I think she would be all right on equal rights, LGBT, and other such social issues.
But she always has, and always will, fall on the side of the corporations, the rich, the military. She is not on my side.
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)as trust worthy as the millions from Wall Street allows her to.
840high
(17,196 posts)mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)people who criticize her because she stuck by Bill despite his wandering ways are, IMHO, sanctimonious buffoons.
People should try to remember the old cliche about walking a mile in her shoes before finding fault with her.
I support Bernie but I wouldn't miss a second's sleep if Hilary won. She'd be a very good president. I just happen to think Bernie would be better. That's just my opinion, not a slam at a remarkable and inspirational woman.
And if he does win I hope he offers her that old Sec of State job.
BooScout
(10,406 posts)I glad you understand what my message was!
Stellar
(5,644 posts)I'm still looking.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)in the Honduran military are hardly the vanguard in protecting women, children, and education
she's repeated every stupid FP initiative Bush has brought us and in fact built on them
women's orgs veritably spit at her name, and wonder why we delude ourselves into thinking she's the best human being in existence because she has both power and a vagoo
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Coincidentally, I'm a man and I ALSO support Hillary.
Response to BooScout (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Pastiche423
(15,406 posts)She offers me nothing but more of the same.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)and we cannot win back the House until 2022 at the earliest and most likely not until 2024.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)1) How long have we been electing Presidents?
2) How many Presidents have there been?
3) How many have been women?
4) What percentage of the population is women.
Anyone who says this should play no role is a flat out fool who does not support equal representation. To be clear, I am not talking about those who will not vote for Hillary for good reasons. Just those who say her gender should play no role at all. It's complete bullshit and goes against our fight.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)To drag out the Clinton marriage as a reason not to vote for Hillary is right-wing bullshit. I support HRC but don't doubt the sincerity of dems who question some of her positions, let's find the best nominee but to repeat Rush talking points?
BooScout
(10,406 posts)silenttigersong
(957 posts)Is Bernie a feminist?I think so ,if you are talking about income equility,edjucation,fair wages.I would argue that Hillary Clintons World tour was doing damage control on The NSa wiki leaks,the apology tour.Furthermore the Scotus argument is a moot argument at this point in time .Does anyone believe Bernie would appoint activist Judges?As far as a vote about Hillarys marriage you are right her buisness .But Bill to many Feminists abuse his power with Monica Lewinsky,to me that is relevent.For instance ,Bill Cosby is in the news ,are you going to say that men in power do not get away with more?