Question for Hillary supporters: Are Bernie Sanders' supporters successfully converting you?

[Cali_Democrat]

At this point, Hillary is leading Bernie by a substantial margin in the polls. In order for Bernie to win, Bernie and his supporters will need to convert Clinton supporters.

I'm curious how this is going so far. Do Clinton supporters feel that Bernie and his supporters are doing a good job of converting you guys?

What do you guys think?

Have they convinced you to #FeelTheBern?

[Fred Sanders]

1. I #FeelTheWarm. Does that count?

[uponit7771]

2. Yes they are, they're converting me into listening to Bernie's "... we should..."'s more...

... and I'm thinking he's not giving any more specifics than she has any anything knowing there's an overly gerrymandered GOP congress.

[aikoaiko]

3. I was in the Hillary camp by default until I heard more about Bernie.

I initially dismissed him a good leftie with no ability to lead (i.e., develop followship), but then I saw it start to change.

At first he had no chance and was just trying to shape the conversation.

Then it started looking like he might take NH.

And then IA.

Yeah, I've become convinced that a focus on economic issues is paramount these days.

[1StrongBlackMan]

6. And ...

I've become convinced that a focus on economic issues is paramount these days.

That is what is dividing the Party.

[Alfalfa]

10. The people trying to divide us by racial lines

Are the ones dividing the Party.

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. I would argue that ...

those promoting the economic primacy path are the ones promoting the division along racial lines.

[Alfalfa]

16. How so?

From what I've observed, the people promoting the economic path are color blind.

[1StrongBlackMan]

30. color blind? or Blind to color (i.e., Blind to issues affecting PoC)? n/t

[Alfalfa]

38. The issues that affect PoC affect everybody

[cheapdate]

82. Are you saying that racism affects white men, such as myself, just as much as it does black people?

Please elaborate.

[1StrongBlackMan]

93. That is not true ...

Well, maybe in a pedestrian way.

[Android3.14]

43. Golly, you say that as if it actually means something in this case

You should work on your authenticity.

[jfern]

107. Bernie has been fighting for PoC for a long time

See this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026743701

[1StrongBlackMan]

108. Yes ... He was a member of SNCC (before leaving the organization because ...

they wanted to focus on racial equality) and he marched with Martin (and then moved to Vermont)!

[BainsBane]

67. IMO the entire worldview is bound to race and class

and I don't see it as an economic path for everyone. I see it as angst over the decline of the white upper-middle and middle class. That they talk about it as a recent phenomenon indicates as much, as well as the hearkening back to the gold ole days when the majority were denied equal rights and lived in poverty.

[Alfalfa]

69. The angst is understandable

Nobody wants to be cheated out of what is rightfully theirs.

[BainsBane]

71. And therein lies the problem

"Rightfully theirs" as opposed to the rest of ours. That is why I do not see these calls for so-called economic justice as applicable to me.

[Alfalfa]

72. You identify with the people who don't want to earn their fair share?

[BainsBane]

79. Is that what you call the poor and people of color?

Because they are born with less privilege, through mere accident of birth? Or did you lose the train of the conversation?

[gollygee]

14. Well let's not get divided!

We are all opposed to racism, right? So we can easily all unite on that issue. We don't have to let it divide us at all.

[Alfalfa]

19. You'd think so

But apparently racism is ok, just as long as you target a so-called privileged group. That is one of the biggest divisive issues.

[gollygee]

22. You think people are being racist toward white people?

Hmm it sounds like you're the one being divisive.

[Alfalfa]

24. Yep, the people calling out the racists are the ones being divisive

[gollygee]

29. Are you calling people concerned about discriminaton againt African Americans "racists?"

What?

[Alfalfa]

33. No, don't put words in my mouth

Thanks.

[gollygee]

39. Well like I just said in another post

I'm worried that I'm misunderstanding a bunch of your posts. I don't understand what you're saying.

[zappaman]

52. I have no idea either.

[Bobbie Jo]

75. You're not the only one.

[cheapdate]

56. That's absurd.

Racism is alive and well in the United States. I don't need to read about on Huffington Post or learn about it in a documentary film. I've lived in the South my whole life. I've dealt with racism with friends, family, and coworkers. I've literally fought with racists more than once. In Mobile, AL the racists across the street called our family "nigger lovers" because my mother sometime brought coworkers over after work. They picked a fight with me. Walking home with a black friend after football practice, some racists literally pulled over in a car to assault my friend and I. In LaGrange, GA a black coworker of mine was taken to jail for little more than being black. I was in a closed-door private setting with a high school principle in Tennessee who went on a long tirade against "niggers." My father's college roommate was Alabama State Attorney General Bill Baxley, who worked for years to bring the 16th Street Baptist Church bomber to justice (4 black girls were killed in the explosion at their church.)

I don't know what in the hell you're saying.

Either you're saying that racism isn't a real problem, or else you're saying it is a real problem, but one that demands silence.

Either way is absurd.

[Alfalfa]

59. With all due respect

The plural of anecdote is not data.

[cheapdate]

62. The plural of anecdote is anecdotes.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

105. Is this anecdotal data?

The wealth of white households was 13 times the median wealth of black households in 2013, compared with eight times the wealth in 2010, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of data from the Federal Reserve’s Survey of Consumer Finances. Likewise, the wealth of white households is now more than 10 times the wealth of Hispanic households, compared with nine times the wealth in 2010.


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/12/racial-wealth-gaps-great-recession/

[cheapdate]

109. The poster to whom I was replying

criticized (in a backhanded way) an earlier post of mine for being anecdotal.

The poster and I have since exchanged some private messages in which I learned that:

"...if anything, it (racism) affects white men more (than black people.)"

I suggested that he check out the League of the South (a neo-confederate, white supremacist group from Georgia.)

[gwheezie]

63. I just don't understand that post

What does that mean?

[Alfalfa]

64. gollygee was suggesting that people who call out others for their racism were being divisive

Rather than the actual racists themselves. I know, I have no idea either.

[gwheezie]

66. Sorry I meant to reply to you

Are you saying the people talking about racism are divisive. Who exactly do you think is divisive?

[Alfalfa]

68. The racists are divisive

However according to gollygee, the people talking about racism are divisive.

[gollygee]

83. I guess the question is

Who are you calling racists?

[zappaman]

53. Uh huh.

Welcome back!

[okasha]

92. My, you've been a busy little bee

in just the last three days. What's your fair share of what you're working for?

[Armstead]

15. It shouldn't. They're not mutually exclusive.

IN fact they go hand in hand if someone actually gives a damn about poverty, housing, healthcare, the nature of the criminal justice/prison system, voting rights, etc, etc.etc.

There are connections between all of them.

[gollygee]

25. If we want to bring people of color into Bernie's camp

we have to specifically say that we need to focus on economics AND racial violence, discrimination, etc. Economics is a very important issue and should be a focus, but people who are scared their kids are going to get pulled over, put in jail over nothing, and mysteriously die, need to hear about that too. Racism also needs to be a focus.

[Armstead]

37. Sure. I think its been said many times, but if people want to hear it again, why not?

I;m sorry but this whole "division" between social and economic justice seems to me to be a contrived thing.

It's a basic common set of goals. I don't it as either/or.

And none of it is going to be solved in the political arena alone. It also involves other social institutions, economic systems and basic human relations.

[gollygee]

44. There's a lot of overlap, and we need both

but they aren't exactly the same. For instance, wealthy people of color also get pulled over, put in jail, shot for no reason, etc. Trayvon Martin was walking in his father's middle class neighborhood. He wasn't poor, but racism caused his death. People of color know that not all of their problems are related to the economy, and that fixing the economy won't help everything.

Also, many of the economc problems of people of color are a direct result of racism. There's racism in hiring practices, the education system, the criminal justice system, the banking system, and housing, all of which contribute to their economic problems. Generally fixing economic problems without also focusing on racism could keep some of the economic fixes from reaching them.

It isn't either/or, but both need a specific focus.

[aikoaiko]

17. Its a conversation within the party and, yes, its important enough to cause divisions in the primary

[Armstead]

20. WHY?

Is the conversation: "Lets only focus on the economy for the next four years" or "Lets focus only on race for the next four years" or "Let's only focus on women's issues for the next four years"?

I think it is possible to multitask.

[aikoaiko]

23. Who ever said "only"? A president can have a priority while addressing other issues. They must.

But I do think that economic injustice and unfairness has become ingrained in American culture that it will take being a priority to get anywhere.

[Armstead]

26. I was responding to your statement that it is causing divisions

and I don't know why it should.

[aikoaiko]

36. Because the other side likes the status quo where economic issues are backburnered.

[bettyellen]

95. not really. A friend of mine said the same thing- then said Hillary killed Vince Foster, LOL.

[Cali_Democrat]

8. I think a lot of folks, especially blacks, would argue that social justice is paramount. nt

[Alfalfa]

11. You can't have "social justice"

Without economic justice.

[gollygee]

27. Why is social justice in quotation marks? n/t

[Alfalfa]

31. It means different things to different people

[gollygee]

35. What do you think social justice means?

It sounds like you think ending discrimination and racial violence against African Americans isn't actually social justice. I'm worried I'm misunderstanding a whole bunch of your posts.

[Alfalfa]

41. African Americans aren't the only ones who experience discrimination and racial violence

Social justice applies to everyone.

[gollygee]

45. Of course it happens to all people of color.

Not just African Americans. Fair enough.

[Alfalfa]

46. All people. Discrimination knows no bounds

[gollygee]

47. White people can face discrimination from time to time

but not on a systemic level. It isn't anywhere near what people of color face.

[Alfalfa]

49. There is no systemic level

[nc4bo]

50. Oops

because........oh hell just because

[gollygee]

51. Uhm yeah there is

You need to do more reading on this subject. White people are not oppressed in the US.

[Alfalfa]

54. Nobody is "oppressed"

Could you elaborate more on this "system"?

[gollygee]

57. It's actually systems plural

Criminal justice, education, employment, housing, banking, etc.

Here's a start: http://academic.udayton.edu/race/2008electionandracism/raceandracism/racism02.htm

And after that you could google something like "systemic racism United States" if you want to read more.

[Alfalfa]

58. So there's a nationwide conspiracy between every employee of the education, housing.....

banking industry, etc? And every single police officer, and judge, and correctional officer is in on this conspiracy too?

[gollygee]

60. It's built into our systems

because of our history of slavery and racism. I'm surprised this is new information for you. Do you really think people of color don't face racism is this country, far exceeding any discrimination faced by white people? If you do believe that, I'd like to know why.

[artislife]

91. I cannot believe this is for real.

This is the Democratic Underground and while we may be asshats to each other ...for the most part we all recognize that racism exists. It is a given.

I see you post in the Israel/Palestinian threads so you must be able to understand the concept of oppression, no matter which side you fall on in that debate.

This America is stacked against ethnicities and if you cannot see it as institutionalized then I invite you to check out some of the GOP candidates. Because they may align themselves to your point of view much more closely than any of the the candidates running for the Democratic ticket.

[okasha]

94. Mistake, Alfie.

Big, big mistake.

[gollygee]

87. Ability level is another thing that people often get discriminated for n/t

[Adrahil]

101. And the other way around.

Bernie, based on his philosophical underpinnings, pretty much always brings back any issue to class. But racism is not just an aspect of economic inequality.

[aikoaiko]

12. Hows that been working for African Americans?

Really. Social justice has been the emphasis of the Democratic party since the 1960s while economic justice (aka. economic fairness) has been sliding away.

eta: I've written before that more money and resources in minority control will empower social justice issues.

[Alfalfa]

9. +1

[mcar]

4. No

Bernie supporters are not helping their candidate.

[1StrongBlackMan]

5. I am not a HRC supporter; but, NO ...

DU and Internet:Bernie supporters are not moving me towards him ... rather, they are pushing me farther away.

[DanTex]

7. In order to be converted I would need to be convinced of his electability.

Nothing so far has given me even the slightest indication that he could win against the GOP.

[whatchamacallit]

18. Oh noes!

We've been instructed by people who don't want to be told how to vote, and have no intention of listening anyway, we must somehow convince them to vote for our candidate. And we're failing, FAAAAAAILING!... OMG we suck.

This shit just gets dumber and dumber...

[JaneyVee]

21. I used to be firmly in camp Bernie, but...

I couldn't sit back and watch "progressives" attack one of our own so voraciously. I will enthusiastically vote for Bernie if he's the nominee, but Sanders supporters turned me into more of a Hillary fan. Besides, I feel Hillary has a better chance of creating a blue wave, which is really the only thing that matters, since lawmakers write the laws.

[liberal N proud]

28. I will post the same thing I posted on the other thread: WOW just @#$%÷ WOW!

[peacebird]

34. My thoughts exactly! Obviously, my thread was a response to this one.

Or at least I assumed it was obvious....

[Persondem]

32. Not even close. I like Bernie a heck of a lot more than I like his supporters.

I have seen HRC blamed for some outrageous shit - 5 degrees of separation charts "linking" her to some KXL funder, blamed for the current state of TPP as if she has anything to do with that for years, labeled as a "corporatist" for promoting US businesses overseas, labeled a "Goldwater girl" (true but who gives a shit about 1964?), recycled RW nut job talking points aimed at her and folks here have blamed her for NAFTA (wtf?).

Ok, yes, she has some weaknesses (so does Bernie), but don't ignore her record as a senator and first lady.

[Sancho]

40. I've listened to Bernie for years on Thom Hartman, and I thought of him as OK, but a little gruff.

I would say that some Bernie supporters have caused me to look into his record and positions more deeply. I've actually moved more away from Bernie because of what I've seen.

I'm less "converted" now than I would have been before debates with various supporters.

[Thinkingabout]

42. I am a Hillary supporter and should Hillary drop out I will be looking for another candidate.

If Biden gets in then he would be my next stop, and then O'Malley. Has Bernie supporters turned me away from a Bernie supporter, yes. I still have some problems with his stand on some of the issues.

[Alfalfa]

48. Turning away from a candidate because of their supporters is completely irrational

It's a convenient excuse though.

[Thinkingabout]

55. I did not base my decision on his supporters butbhis supporters are not

Delivering any terms of endearment for sure. They have encouraged me to do research on Bernie and I determined I do not agree with his stand on the issues. Convenient excuse, I did not use the supporters as an excuse, it was through research.

[procon]

78. Its a valid observation as it reflects on the candidate.

Pick any group and look at the type of people that support that cause, then ask yourself if you want to be associated with whatever they are connected to.

From political factions, to any social issue, religion, guns, you name it, it is the loyal followers in any particular group that sets the tone and spirit of organization. While good leadership can modulate the attitude of their most ardent supporters, once it gets out of control, it's almost impossible to rein it back and then the tail starts wagging the dog.

[freshwest]

98. +1

[BainsBane]

65. Yes, actually

They helped convert me into becoming a Hillary supporter, something I never contemplated for a nanosecond in 2008.

Thanks, folks!

[handmade34]

70. I love Bernie (my Senator)

respect him, his message and everything about him… I was, still am and probably will continue to be a "Hillary 4 President' supporter

[Iliyah]

73. Inasmuch as I believe that Sanders, O'Malley, Webb and Chaffee are good men,

I am a HRC supporter. Plus reading the hateful threads and responses from BS' supporters which friends and relatives have read on my computer, they are turned off.

[Skidmore]

74. At this point, no one is converting me.

Not either side. I haven't made up my mind about any of the candidates yet in spite of their supporters. And, I am waiting to hear about Biden now.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

76. Many BS supporters have actually turned me OFF to Bernie even though I generally like/support him.

I still need some convincing, however, that he will be able to take down Hillary like Obama did in 2008 and have enough widespread appeal to win in the general (though given the choices in the Republican field, I feel more optimistic about our chances to hold the WH in 2016 pretty much regardless of who wins in the Primary). I will gladly support him for POTUS if he wins the Democratic primary, but, right now, I think that Hillary has more widespread appeal in both the Democratic Primary and the general electorate and is more likely to win.

[Cha]

77. Good question, Cali.. they're certainly trying, aren't they?

[Starry Messenger]

80. I'm already a socialist.

I just think Bernie's support is an inch deep. I want to keep the WH out of right-wing hands, as that would finish off any progress for about a generation, if there are rw USSC appointments.

HRC's numbers still look great. If we get another bite at the WH apple, we can keep pressing on with reform, instead of trying to fight our way out of the next pit of despair the right wing will unleash on us.

His supporters have no effect on my goals. The only thing that would affect my thinking would be a massive poll shift.

[Lil Missy]

81. I love Bernie, I just think Hillary is better qualified.

What is really disappointing is that some DUer's here have assumed that since I support Hillary, it means I "hate" Bernie. It's just delusional thinking. Not to mention the absurd notion that Hillary supporters AND the media are "running scared". My gawd. There is no reasoning or common sense with some people.

[Historic NY]

84. Trying here doesn't reflect the Burn nationwide....

because they have to climb a Hill, and so far its not working as well as they think it is.

[Control-Z]

86. The only thing they've done is cause me to

look deeper into Sander's past and past accomplishments - to better understand him and the personalities supporting him.

The more I learn about Sanders the more I respect and understand just how hard Hillary has worked her entire adult life. For us. On every issue imaginable. The contrasts are staggering.

[Sheepshank]

90. I was so very excited when Hillary announced

I was so very close to saying she was the one for me. I'd heard much about Bernie right here on DU so when he announced, I figured this was a chance to find out more, see what all the excitement was about. I was disappointed in big part at the attacks and vitriolic hatred exhibited by Bernie supporters to Hillary and at her supporters. It almost felt like a revival, and I cannot abide that type of cultish fundy-type thinking. I lived enough of that in my,youth to know it when I see it. I have walked back, irrevocably into the Clinton camp and I'm perfectly fine with that.

[cherokeeprogressive]

96. Yep.

[leftynyc]

97. Not even a little bit

In fact, I have to continually remind myself that you can't (or shouldn't) judge a candidate by their supporters. If anything, they've driven me away from Bernie.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

99. I'm personally not trying to convert anyone

Some people will vote for Trump in the primaries, some will vote for Clinton, some will vote for Sanders. Any adult who has twisted themselves to the point where they'd consider voting for more war and more Wall Street isn't someone I can reach.

[NCTraveler]

100. Sanders appeals to outsiders. I know they don't like to think that, but it is accurate.

What's kind of funny is that most of his supporters recognize and respect that. It is the outsiders that fight against that claim tooth and nail.

A big part of that support is based in anger at the system. Those individuals are often the ones who find themselves on left leaning message boards railing against the PTB. Many simply aren't democrats and never claimed to be. For them, it is about spreading their "truth." They view any support for democrats to be supportive of the current status in DC. They are not here to garner support for anything. They are here to increase opposition to the party and its platform. They are thoughts based in opposition, not support. This is a very small but very angry and loud group here. Overall, many of his supporters are excellent. My current favorite poster on du is all in for Sanders. They do so for excellent reasons, which they discuss in a very educated manner, including in their discussions of issues they have with Hillary. At this point his supporters are being broad brushed on this board. It is a very loud minority of them that many Hillary supporters are railing against.

Most of the worst offenders at this point have hit desperation mode and won't be around for long. Keep giving that small group of posters rope.

It's not like Hillary supporters here are winning hearts and minds.

[Comrade Grumpy]

102. Hey, I know! Let's chew ourselves to pieces. It's not like we have Republicans to worry about.

Good God, the political wanking-off that goes on in this forum.

[Gothmog]

103. I like Sanders but will support Clinton in the primary

I have yet to see a good explanation as to how Sanders will be viable in a general election campaign where the Kochs will be spending $887 million and the GOP nominee will be spending another billion dollars.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

106. I have the mother of all headaches or I would elaborate.

Did someone really argue we have eliminated all vestiges of racism from the United States of America?

I do believe we have made some progress because most folks truly want to get along and are offended when anyone gets disparate negative treatment but we have still have work to do.

[Jamaal510]

110. I'll hold out for Biden or vote for O'Malley.

At first I liked Sanders the most, but I don't like most of what I read and hear from his supporters online and on TV, and his plan of action as president just sounds vague to me (e.g. starting "revolutions" and going after banksters) as I find out more about him. He has said almost everything I want to hear, but how would he work with Congress to make those things a reality? How would he realistically build on the things that Obama did?