2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWith the FBI Investigating Clinton's Emails, Bernie Sanders Should Be the Democratic Frontrunner
With the FBI Investigating Clinton's Emails, Bernie Sanders Should Be Considered the Democratic Frontrunner08/21/2015 * HuffPo * H.A. Goodman
Last year, if someone told you that by August of 2015, a poll would show Bernie Sanders ahead of Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire, what would you say? Six months ago, if you were told that Bernie Sanders would draw over 100,000 people at events across the country, how would you react?
The truth is that Bernie Sanders is long past the viewpoint that he's unelectable or "too liberal." Without serious interest from mainstream media, and without billions in campaign funding, the Vermont Senator has been able to generate a nationwide groundswell of enthusiasm. Money can't buy enthusiasm, and money certainly can't buy a person's trust -- Sanders has an abundance of both.
Since Bernie Sanders is sincere and known for his direct and forthright communication style, he won't have to spend any dollars convincing Americans that he's trustworthy. Sanders, unlike others, can simply remind people that he voted against the Iraq War, voted against the Defense of Marriage Act, fought hard against Keystone XL and the TPP, and favors breaking up "too big to fail" banks.
Up until now, the view that Hillary Clinton is the Democratic frontrunner was bolstered by an ever-dwindling poll among Democratic voters between the former Secretary of State and the Vermont Senator. However, with major polls today showing Sanders challenging or defeating Clinton and Republican, conventional wisdom has allowed the possibility of Clinton possibly losing a second run at the presidency. Furthermore, the momentum generated by the Sanders campaign is genuine and will only increase (among all demographics) with greater name recognition across the country.
Most importantly, Bernie Sanders is the only Democrat gaining attention nationwide who isn't linked to an FBI investigation. Why some Democrats still continue to believe a candidate can win the White House with the Justice Department, FBI, and other intelligence agencies investigating this candidate's email practices, seems to overlook one obvious fact. Nobody has ever won the White House with an ongoing FBI and Justice Department investigation, and it doesn't seem that the FBI or Justice Department will cease investigating Clinton's email saga by Election Day; 444 days away.
In reality, the real frontrunner within the race for Democratic nominee is the candidate gaining momentum every single day, without overwhelming media coverage. Bernie Sanders is in reality the likely choice for Democratic nominee, since his competition is linked to an ongoing FBI investigation. Statisticians and pundits can serve as naysayers, but the reality is that Hillary Clinton's lead over Bernie Sanders is constantly dwindling, and yet Clinton's email saga is just beginning. For these reasons and more, the realistic choice for Democratic nominee is the Vermont Senator, not the former Secretary of State who is now under scrutiny from various government agencies.
Fabricated or real, the scandal exists, and nobody can win the White House with the FBI as a running mate.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/bernie-sanders-should-be-considered-the-democratic-frontrunner_b_8019264.html
Metric System
(6,048 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)But there are wall-to-wall talking heads on M$M actively ignoring Bernie 24/7,
while pumping up Trump. and waiting breathlessly for Biden to announce.
On one occasion, there were 3 talking suits, reporting on the Clinton email
thing, then speculating that Hillary might drop out, then literally looking around
the studio, saying "Gee, well then, who else is there?", like Bernie didn't exist.
riversedge
(69,727 posts)Sure do praise up Sanders--and diss Hillary.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)He just states the facts.
Not his fault HC's stuck in the mud of her own making.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Please name them. The innuendo is quite inappropriate. It is a sort of conspiracy theory about Bernie supporters. I have seen no evidence that any of the Benrie supporters on DU are Republicans although some Republicans outside of DU have shown interest in Bernie.
Are you thinking of the independent voters, new voters and traditional Democrats, many of whom became disillusioned with the Third Way mentality, lost faith and stopped voting and are now ready to vote again for Bernie? Because to the extent they might have been Republicans at some point, they certainly are not Republicans now if they are considering voting for Bernie. Bernie is a self-proclaimed Democratic Socialist, hardly the Republicans' cup of tea.
I will tell you who likes Bernie Sanders and who is pushing him on DU and elsewhere based on my experience talking to Bernie Sanders supporters.
Lots of young people who feel their economic opportunity is very limited and increasingly so.
Lots of people who work in helping professions: psychologists, social workers, lawyers (not the big firm kinds but lawyers who work on justice issues), Jewish people, people who feed the hungry, visit prisons, old time progressives who, as I explained above, don't like the Third Way Democrats, etc.
Those are the people I have met who are most interested in supporting Bernie.
So please tell me, if you think that Republicans are supporting Bernie on DU, which DUers are you talking about? Please name names.
Because I think that those you are accusing should have the opportunity to clear their names and save their reputations. It is very unfair to make vague accusations about the sincerity and motivations of other DUers unless you have proof that the DUers are acting on behalf of the Republican Party.
Please respond.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)It should be the duty of ALL at DU to get to know them and remove them and not encourage them.
And these agents are operating against ALL the Democratic Party candidates.
The massive amounts of CU money available goes a long, long way.
To me that is the main source of the strife...these agents must be well satisfied with their work.
They need to be identified...and, repeat, not encouraged and welcomed and then permanently embedded.
We are all on the same side!
On edit: nice OP explaining this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251539502
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Wait till you see what kind of fake scandal the Rethugs drum up against Sanders, once they view him as a threat.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Mmmmmmkay
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)And of being a Muslim, not a Christian.
They will have a field day with Bernie Sanders. He's made it clear he doesn't practice any religion, much less Christianity. And he is certain to have more communist/socialist "connections" than Obama.
frylock
(34,825 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)or even a "Democratic socialist," but did label himself as a Christian.
And partly because Obama had such a strong coalition of Dems, including very high numbers of minority supporters. Unfortunately, many of those supporters didn't come out to vote in the years when Obama wasn't at the top of the ticket.
Whoever is on our ticket is going to need the support of the same coalition that came out for Obama.
frylock
(34,825 posts)and I think Sanders is more than capable of explaining his policy positions to the proletariat in the face of being labeled a SOCIALIST!!12 by the repubs.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)as long as he, unlike many of his ardent admirers, doesn't get perceived as anti-religion.
Among Democrats, African and Latino Americans are more likely to identify as "highly religious" than non-hispanic white Americans.
I was glad to hear him say something positive about Pope Francis recently. There are plenty of DUers who love to disparage Catholics, but that won't help the party get those swing voters on board.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)It appears that they are more interested in the senders of the emails than the recipient.
riversedge
(69,727 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Did your unicorn tell you that?
Hillary's campaign can't even handle this email scandal, which is self inflicted and never should have happened. What happens when the Rethugs start their real attacks?
She is a terrible candidate and she is running a terrible campaign. The fact that this email scandal even exists is proof of that.
Here.. have a ready made series of attack ads, courtesy of Hillary Clinton.
I really love that St. Patrick's Day clip when she says "now that's what happened". Get used to that one. The ad will say "When Hillary, tells you something happened you can bet it didn't."
Terrible candidate.
lobodons
(1,290 posts)All they need to do is repeat Socialist Socialist Socialist over and over again. They are masters at messaging. Bernie could not withstand that onslaught.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)they don't care about the Socialist thing.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)I wonder how Goodman thinks Hillary gets 118 endorsements from the current Congressional members and 15 from former Congressional members and Bernie still has not gotten one endorsement from them. These are people who have worked in Congress with both people, apparently they have confidence in Hillary.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)"I wonder how Goodman thinks Hillary gets 118 endorsements from the current Congressional members
and 15 from former Congressional members"
Hillary's part of the 'good old boys club'.
They want to preserve the status quo.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)know will work.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)They want someone they know will work for the oligarchy.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)in a state that said she couldn't win. And she did.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)for Ann Richards. That, my friend, is something you and I will ALWAYS agree upon. She was a great lady and a great leader!
Best thing she ever said, and she said a LOT of things that make good sense.
And this one:
Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)they don't control become POTUS?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)As far as being in the donation numbers why would they want a lesser amount of the donated money to spread it to Hillary? Maybe another reason can be found.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Right now, people are unhappy with the status quo.
Listen to Bernie's speeches and notice on what lines he gets the biggest applause. Then you will know why people are flocking to support Bernie in spite of his lack of support from sitting members of Congress.
People are very unhappy about the fact that our current political "leaders" have done nothing about the Citizens United decision, nothing about the killing of Black kids by police, about student loans and the cost of post-secondary education, about low wages (declining wages, no less), about the lack of appropriate full-time jobs for people, about the lack of paid family leave for new parents, about the disparity in wealth, about less pay for women. . . .
Just listen to his speeches. The people cheer at what he says and you can tell why he is gaining momentum from the lines that draw cheers.
Where are Hillary Clinton's speeches, interviews, etc.?
Why aren't Hillary supporters posting them on DU? I want to know what her supporters are cheering about.
It's kind of a shame that Hillary supporters attack Bernie supporters but don't seem to do a very good job representing what their candidate really stands for.
This is a primary. Where is Hillary? I know she is giving speeches. But what is she saying?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)members in Congress who a president will have to work, how is it going to work when Bernie wants bills passed and he does not have a Congress in which he works.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)who would never endorse an honest man.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)pennylane100
(3,425 posts)I think that we must stop this criticizing of his opponents until we know they have actually done something wrong. We must be better than our opponents.
So far, Hillary has not been found guilty of any crimes, and I have a feeling that she never will, in regard to her email account. Another thing to consider is that if she is guilty of using her own email account for work related issues, she will probably be one of many, on both sides of the aisle that did the same thing. So we must then investigate them all so it will not look like a witch hunt on one particular candidate.
I am horrified at how this site has reacted to the contest between two very qualified candidates. Yes, I think Bernie is a better leader for our country but it will not be the end of the world if, after an honest contest between these two people, she manages to win. I, of course hope that does not happen but if we keep this snipping at them both, we may end up with President Dump. Now that is a scary thought.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Some DUers just think they need to do it for him.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Who constantly attacks Sanders
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Don't make me break out the advanced search, copy your posts and collate them for all to see.
The "fact" you asserted is absurd.
Advanced Search.
No, they didn't fall into the ether, we still can read your posts.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)I'm really not comfortable with attempts to intimidate me.
If you are implying that you will attempt to get posts that I make hidden, that is *exactly* what intimidation is, and it doesn't reflect well on DU, and it doesn't reflect well on ME if I succumb to your insinuated threats.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Hint. Post 76 is where you first posted to me.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)you are out of bounds, is that a callout? If I disagree with you, is that a callout?
If you disagree with me, is that a callout?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)It's not my intention to be slamming Hillary, but to post OP's -- without comment --
on what's being said 'out there' about how Dem candidates are trending .. or not.
I'm not convinced either that there is much substance to Hillary's email controversy,
yet -- whether or not Clinton did anything wrong -- it's having a deleterious
impact on the viability of her candidacy, which doesn't appear to be going away
before the GE, which makes it even more relevant.
I don't think this ^ subject should be forbidden or off-limits, because to ignore it
as a factor will not bode well for the Democratic nominee -- whoever it is -- winning
the GE.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)An indictment? I doubt it. Bad press coverage. Inevitable.
Bernie doesn't have those kinds of negatives.
He is just Bernie.
I think his colleagues in the Senate are scratching their heads because they can't understand why he has such a big following. I don't think they dislike him or disapprove of him. He just isn't part of their club.
And that is why many of us like him. He is not part of the club that scratches the Republican backs and gets their backs scratched by Republicans in turn.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I do not expect Hillary to be indicted or anything like that. Could happen, but I don't think it will. I think that issues about our policy in Syria and Libya could cause her problems. That is more likely to me than that there will be problems with her e-mail situation.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)brooklynite
(93,873 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)nt
brooklynite
(93,873 posts)Her announced plan has always been the listening tour in the Spring, rolling out policy positions in the Summer, and traditional campaigning starting in the Fall.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Lemme guess, in the name of fairness?
brooklynite
(93,873 posts)...no hurry.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)She started campaigning last spring
short circuit
(145 posts)See the trendlines at Huffington Post? Or do you consider it a right-wing source since Arianna Huffington is more or less a libertarian?
brooklynite
(93,873 posts)...it shows that 1) Clinton started out 20 point HIGHER than in 2008, and her drop-off isn't at a concerning pace considering that she isn't actively campaigning. My expectation is that when active campaigning starts, the media focus will be on that and not on the email story.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)She attended the Iowa State Fair. Bernie drew a bigger crowd so she did not do a lot of publicity about her appearance. That's my guess. She will probably hold some big events in the Fall.
Bernie is just starting to campaign also. His rallies are one thing. His organization of volunteers is just starting to roll out I think.
I'm volunteering. We are just starting. I'm looking forward to working for Bernie. So are my friends. Lots of social workers, psychologists, people who help others are going to be working for Bernie. It should be an effective campaign. Lots of young people too.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)At Bill Clinton's first inaugural?
frylock
(34,825 posts)short circuit
(145 posts)then immediately went into anti-press mode. Great way to reflect the frontrunner status when M$M is against Clinton.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)It's NEVER going away...ever.
Hence I believe...Biden. DWS, DNC, Third Wayers need Plan B, as in Biden.
Obviously she and her campaign don't get it...her attitude and the "look" she gets on her face, will drive the Anybody But Her crowd to the polls.
There is Bush Burnout...There is Clinton Burnout...But Hillary Burnout is THE biggest of all.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)again I will say that we need to get into the debates before we know how this race shapes up.
Bernie does not need to be the frontrunner now. It is still silly season. If he is considered the frontrunner when Americans are sitting around the table and discussing politics on Thanksgiving, he will be in good shape.
We don't want to peak to early.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)It didn't become prohibited until Hillary left and Republicans only passed the law to go after her for something that wasn't even a problem before.
You can't make a law retroactive to prosecute an individual.
Unless the target is a Democrat.
Gman
(24,780 posts)But since Hillary supporters know it's desparate BS, they're sticking with her.
There aren't enough undecideds to put Sanders in the lead. Sanders' support is pretty much maxed.
The author is also highly partial to Sanders. Just more Sanders echo chamber BS.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)"There aren't enough undecideds to put Sanders in the lead. Sanders' support is pretty much maxed."
I disagree. While it may appear that way -- esp. if that's what I want to be true -- looking ONLY at #1
1) the undecideds being like 10-12% in polls;
But that's not the only place Bernie's drawing new supporters. It's also from these sectors ....
2) Independents, who are re-registering as Dems,
3) it's new registrations who had given up altogether on politics, and
4) some GOP's changing parties, as well.
When you combine all 4 of these sources, it accounts for why Bernie keeps trending upward and is not even near being 'maxed' yet. who HAS maxed, is the candidate who's been running since 2008, and who has 100% name recognition with voters.
Gman
(24,780 posts)So that greatly whittled down his max number. He's about there.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)down the road. There's certainly enough time for Bernie to
close whatever gap is there.
Gman
(24,780 posts)you'd think the election was November this year. There's an infinite amount of time politically between now and the conventions and the election. Trump could have a stroke. Hillary may just fade or Sanders peak and fade. A ton of stuff can and will happen. It's way too soon to be calling winners.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Now tell me again how Hillary supporters are not "defecting" to Bernie. Everyone else is pretty steady as far as their support goes. Hillary and Bernie are the two exceptions. If the trend continues, those lines will meet right around the time of the first debate. That is when this race will start to take shape.
Desparate (SIC) BS, yes... there is defiantly lots of that going around lately.
Gman
(24,780 posts)Trivial numbers.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)Pretty much sums up the relationship that the fringe left (or fringe right, as the case may be with Rand Paul supporter H.A. Goodman -- sometimes it's hart to tell them apart) has with the truth. It doesn't matter!
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)The entire "fringe Left" --> under the bus with you.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)or lack there of in the GE.
Beyond a certain point, in this context, it won't matter how much fire is under all that smoke,
her campaign still goes up in smoke, leaving the nation with a President Trump, or worse.
Of course it matters, if it's fabricated, in that it really really sucks to have a candidate 'disqualified'
based totally on GOP lies ... in the M$M echo chamber. I agree with you on that.
Once the damage is done, the fact that it "mattered" (however sadly) will not make the scandal
(however baseless) magically disappear or be of no consequence in the election outcome.
If it all goes away next week, fine. But if this drags into the GE still unresolved, not so fine.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 22, 2015, 07:54 PM - Edit history (1)
HRC supporters would quit conflating a private email account with a private server, and a fake scandal with a FBI investigation.
conflate - transitive verb
1 a : to bring together : fuse
b : confuse
2: to combine (as two readings of a text) into a composite whole
mythology
(9,527 posts)Kind of awkward to the author's point.
It's like how some of the Republican candidates are saying that Trump doesn't reflect real Republican values when he talks about ending citizenship by birth and blasting John McCain for being captured in Vietnam and yet he's clearly ahead in the polls.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I think 'frontrunner' comes down to current national polling, and not much else.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)Clinton, Trump, Biden are all household names.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/2016-presidential-swing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2271
Sure seems to me that the Dems want a candidate that is more 'party friendly' or is just the Repubs turn.
GitRDun
(1,846 posts)Until he makes some headway with minority groups, he's just another guy in the pack.
Enjoyed the fanfare though...thanks.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)I trust he knows what he's doing.
GitRDun
(1,846 posts)as this campaign develops, we need the party to be competitive with everyone in the D tent.
And not just for the Presidency. The coattails matter. If Bernie can get the energy and motivation he has to push down ballot and thru the whole party, we may yet have something....
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eon
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Boy, if only we had one!