Throwing Obama under the bus all for the good of the campaign...

[BooScout]

Lately I've seen quite a few threads and posts here throwing President Obama under the bus. Comments like he's not a Democrat, he didn't do what he promised, he sold out to corporate,etc.

May I respectfully remind folks of just how bad a shape the country was in after 8 years of The Republican slime machine? And folks blaming The war in Iraq on Hillary?! .....well Bullshit.

The war in Iraq and the subsequent destabilization of the mid-east lies squarely in the lap of George Bush. It was his administration that went before Congress and the UN and lied about WMDs and you know what? The majority of America bought it hook, line and sinker. A lot of Democrats voted for the Iraq resolution. They were wrong, I thought so at the time, but like it or not, they were representing what the majority views of their constituents was at the time and they were assured by the President of the United States that the evidence about WMDs was golden. At the start of the Iraq war, opinion polls were as high as 79% in favor of it.

Hillary Clinton and other Democrats have since apologized for their votes and admitted they were wrong. I am not a vindictive person, if someone has the courage to own up to their mistakes and admit they were wrong and apologize for it, then I am willing to move on. Especially when you have someone like Colin Powell who was pretty well respected by both parties at one time, enough for Democrats to try and recruit him into the party btw....when someone of his calibre stands on the world stage and assures us there were wmds then a lot of people were going to believe him.

And trying to blame Obama and Clinton for all that is wrong in America and the world is duplicitous. Obama and Clinton have both worked their asses off trying to restore America's reputation around the world. A reputation virtually annihilated by the Bush Administration.

Under Obama, we now have available health care for all Americans. The groundwork for the ACA was laid down by Hillary Clinton decades ago. Yes, Hillary didn't achieve health care for all, but she introduced the premise into the American psyche and allowed Democrats (not Republicans) to map their battle plans thru the minefields of congress, with the Insurance Lobby and rabid republican politicos frothing at the mouth to destroy it any way they could.

The ACA is far from perfect, but it's a damned sight better than what we had before, which was nothing....but a noble idea. Many things in this life do not come easy. The best things in life you have to work hard for.

To dismiss President Obama and Hillary Clinton of not being true Democrats is preposterous and mendacious. It's an argument meant to deflect and we all know who it's meant to deflect scrutiny from now don't we?

[mcar]

1. It's been going on here since PBO was inaugurated

No credit, all blame. He's a POSUCS, remember?

[Fred Sanders]

2. Evidence be damned, Obama is a failure! Who does that assist? Folks are blinded by their

impatience at the pace of change, even as so much change is happening all around them.

Look at the evidence. Look at what Obama's accomplishments has done to the GOP...it has driven them entirely mad.

[mcar]

3. Exactly!

[George II]

6. Precisely, but I can remember weeks after his inauguratoin people were already pissing and moaning..

...that he broke his promises already!

Un-freaking-believable.

Considering the republican stonewalling of everything he wanted to do, he's been unbelievably successful.

[yeoman6987]

50. It's up to the candidate to make that decision

I personally wouldn't because president Obama is great on the campaign trail and can get voters excited. However I am not running. I think gore should have used president Clinton at least in Tennessee so gore could have won his homestate at least but he chose not too. Again I was not running then either. It's easy for us to tell candidates what to do since we bare no responsibility or accountability for the outcome.

[Scootaloo]

45. I find it interesting that the evidence of this argument is always the same one thread from 2013.

[mcar]

49. It's the most obvious

You cannot seriously claim that there are not dozens of threads proving the OP's point?

[Scootaloo]

53. It's two years old. The author was harassed off the site. You guys "won"

[mcar]

60. You cannot seriously claim that there are not

dozens of threads supporting the OP's point.

[Scootaloo]

63. The OP's point is that Sanders supporters are "throwing Obama under the bus" to deflect from Sanders

The OP has provided not a single shred of support for this premise. Nor have you. Best you've got is a post from 2013 that you're STILL mad about after two years and the abandonment of the piece's author. Which, being two years old and having nothing to do with the primary campaign whatsoever, isn't exactly a bolstering point for the OP's thesis.

By all means. Support your BooScout's claim.

[eridani]

91. Sanders supporters are thrilled with the Iran deal and pissed about TPP

That's how those into issue discussions roll. ACA has been helpful, but it certainly doesn't provide health care. It provides insurance, which people may or may not be able to afford to use. Still, it allows for state implementation of single payer, a major plus.

[Fred Sanders]

105. Sanders was mentioned and was the focus of the OP? Must have missed that. I will re-read...

nope, still nothing!

[Scootaloo]

110. Don't play dumb, Fred.

[Fred Sanders]

112. Ditto. Scootaloo, that was the point of my comment.

[Scootaloo]

115. Are you really confounded by the target of the OP, Fred?

Are you reading it and being all confused about whose campaign Booscout is referring to? Are you gaping like a landed carp trying to figure out who the OP believes is having scrutiny deflected from them?

[Fred Sanders]

116. Landed carp's gape? The things you learn at DU!

[uponit7771]

118. Irrelevant how old it was, it's speaks volumes for generations of some peoples attitudes

[MineralMan]

4. Hillary Clinton is closely tied to Obama. That's why.

President Obama will be campaigning for Clinton after the Democratic Convention, so it's important for some to continue finding ways to trash the President to attempt to get people to vote in the primaries for someone other than Hillary Clinton.

It's really simple. It also isn't going to work.

[questionseverything]

62. or could it be we believe in the Constitution?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141199194

i worked and voted for O to stop this kind of unconstitutional behavior.....do we collectively close our eyes because our guy has been in charge of the fbi?

2000 cases in one city because of illegal behavior from the locals to the feds...which all stems from the patriot act, which hillary supports and bernie voted against

[underthematrix]

84. Lord have mercy. The POTUS is in charge of the executive branch

FBI directors serve 10 year terms no matter who is in the WH.

[George II]

5. Thank you! Excellent points. Glad someone took the time to point out the GOOD things....

...about President Obama and Hillary Clinton and their long list of accomplishments.

[DanTex]

7. Good post. Though Obama's been under the bus for a long time now.

The Hillary bashing we've seen is in large part an extension of the Obama-bashing that has been pretty much constant since 2008. Obama has been a transformational president, but people on the fringe left are determined to be dissatisfied no matter what the facts are.

[Andy823]

75. Exactly

Last edited Sun Sep 6, 2015, 09:51 AM - Edit history (1)

Same group that bashes Clinton based Obama, the democratic party as a whole, and everyone here on DU who supported the president. They made daily bashing threads and put labels like "Obamabots, drones, party loyalists, marching in lockstep, authoritarians, etc. on those who sided with the president. It's just like nowadays, but now instead of Obama, Clinton is the recipient of their bashing. Who knows who they will go after next. I am wondering what will happen to Warren if she endorses Clinton

[sheshe2]

88. +1000. You nailed it.

[virtualobserver]

8. well, we all know who this OP meant to deflect scrutiny from now, don't we?

admitting that she made a mistake is not an apology, although it is more of an apology than yesterday's "I'm sorry this has been confusing to people."

you are linking President Obama with Hillary with a straw man with your absolute phrase
"trying to blame Obama and Clinton for ALL that is wrong in America and the world" as if anyone is doing that.

Hillary Clinton is not Barack Obama, though both have worked hard for this country.

Some of us have a different view concerning the direction that the Democratic party needs to go in, that's all.

[Vattel]

14. perfectly stated and clearly true

[Human101948]

26. There is no need for Hillary to apologize for anything!

Buying into that meme enables the Republican smear machine. We should be fighting it with every fiber of our being. Attack and attack Republicans. Accuse them of child molestation and make them prove beyond an unreasonable doubt. Do no accept their crap!

P.S.--I am supporting Bernie Sanders. I am hoping we get that demonstration of support with a million people marching down Constitution Avenue.

[virtualobserver]

31. the OP said that she DID apologize, and I disagreed

I could care less if she actually apologized, I just don't want the false argument that she did apologize to go unchallenged.

I don't excuse her vote on Iraq. It was obvious to me watching from the comfort of my couch that the rationale for that war was an invention.....Bernie saw the same evidence that Hillary saw and he saw through the BS, just as most DU'ers did.

I don't want a President who can be swept along by a wave of bullshit that enriches corporations and kills people.

When the primaries are over, I'll support the nominee....but until then, I will respond to threads that tell me that Hillary should be immune to criticism.

[Human101948]

70. I think I responded in the wrong place...

I think that Hillary was making a political choice on the Iraq invasion. She was worried that she might be branded as not manly enough to be Commander in Chief.

Just cant understand why we can't get a good counterattack going on Republicans,

[arcane1]

76. Political choice = allowing good people to get killed and mutilated in order to advance her career.

An apology isn't going to change that.

[A Simple Game]

34. Nice post and I agree completely, thanks. n/t

[LovingA2andMI]

44. Agreed, Hillary Clinton is not POTUS Obama

And although she worked for President Obama as Secretary of State....let's not forget that this was always a secondary settle for Hillary....

"A series of comments from Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, her husband and her supporters are spurring a racial backlash and adding a divisive edge to the presidential primary as the candidates head south to heavily African-American South Carolina.

The comments, which ranged from the New York senator appearing to diminish the role of Martin Luther King Jr. in the civil rights movement — an aide later said she misspoke — to Bill Clinton dismissing Sen. Barack Obama’s image in the media as a “fairy tale” — generated outrage on black radio, black blogs and cable television. And now they've drawn the attention of prominent African-American politicians.

“A cross-section of voters are alarmed at the tenor of some of these statements,” said Obama spokeswoman Candice Tolliver, who said that Clinton would have to decide whether she owed anyone an apology."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2008/01/racial-tensions-roil-democratic-race-007845#ixzz3ksvwm8Z4

[leftofcool]

67. Oh please, why do you care?

[virtualobserver]

68. I care because I don't like to see President Obama used as a shield for Hillary

I trust and love President Obama, whereas I can vote for Hillary if I have to.

I do not see them as equivalent.

[99Forever]

9. Plenty of room down here...

... with us damn "professional leftists" and unicorn wanters.

[Betty Karlson]

10. O come on! Disagreeing with Obama is not allowed because...?

Because the country was in a bad shape 8 years ago? The country was in a bad shape because policy was privately decided (under Bush), but never discussed publicly.

If some of that bad shape still lingers on, it's because of Democratic attempts to silence discussion. Speaking of which: where do you stand on Debbie Wasserman-Schultz?

[cali]

11. while I think the ACA is an improvement on the system, we do not have available

health care for all Americans. That claim is just what you rail about in your OP; mendacious

And your claim that dismissing Obama and Clinton as democrats is motivated by a desire to deflect scrutiny of (hint, hint) Sanders, is that other thing you so piously preach about: Preposterous. Make that fucking preposterous.

[McCamy Taylor]

12. Those who call Obama "not a true Democrat" do not know what a Democrat is.

[McCamy Taylor]

13. The GOP would love for the Dem nonimee to campaign against the sitting president.

Because this has worked out so well for our nominees in the past.

[Vattel]

15. Your last sentence is ludicrous, of course.

[cali]

18. the op is just another PA attack on evil Sanders supporters.

[virtualobserver]

21. alas, this is true.....

[MannyGoldstein]

16. Shame on those people

[Bobbie Jo]

19. yawn

New material; get some.

[Stellar]

25. Jeebus!

[DemByDefault]

17. I stopped reading at dont blame Hillary for Iraq

[cali]

20. you didn't miss much. And I'm so tired

of the stinky bullshit excuses for her vote for the IWR and the claim that she apologized for her stupid or calculating vote. Hillary defended that craptastic vote for years and years. And though she wasn't responsible for that debacle she, like the others who voted for it, sure as hell enabled bush/cheney.

[virtualobserver]

22. she waits for her internal polling

hence her recent shift to the Private Email Server 'Clearly Wasn't The Best Choice' stance.

[BooScout]

29. oh hello...

[DemByDefault]

61. Hiya Scout

Sry to be so dismissive. But I'll never forgive Mrs. Clinton for her Iraq vote. Nor do I buy her or any of those sorry excuses for representatives garbage about bad intelligence, or not thinking bush intended war. Thats a crock of shit and Mrs Clinton, especially, understood that better than most in Congress.

[Stellar]

23. Point taken...

Neither one of them are perfect, but I do appreciate what they have done for our country. Also, there are people here that have given me link to the Washington Times as proof to an argument, in which I understand to be a Republican rag. Another person (on facebook) claiming to be a Bernie supporter would not accept a link from me to the Daily Kos...told me I had to do better than that. I have noticed every time an election season is coming up, it appears that people that are supposed to be from the same party become very brutal with each other...that when I leave, and let them have it. But we definitely have to be careful of outsiders.

[MisterP]

24. if they don't want to be blamed on TPP and Iraq

they shouldn't have pushed them over Dems' heads

had the Dems voted no it wouldn't have passed--and your argument is "opinion polls were as high as 79% in favor of it"? that just confirms her vote was COWARDLY

[Scootaloo]

27. Got some links to go with your finger-wagging?

Also, this?

Hillary Clinton and other Democrats have since apologized for their votes and admitted they were wrong. I am not a vindictive person, if someone has the courage to own up to their mistakes and admit they were wrong and apologize for it, then I am willing to move on.

People are dead, Booscout. Hundreds of thousands of people are dead. Several nations have either collapsed or are in the porocess of doing so, creating a humanitarian crisis of a magnitude not seen since the latter half of the 1940's.

Does any of this register? Does apologizing to you fix this?

What a callous, glib statement from you.

[ctsnowman]

42. X 1000

[Phlem]

52. It's cricket hunting time!

[Fairgo]

83. From the heart

Backed by reason. Thanks for the distilled truth.

[Hydra]

97. Thank you for being the brick wall of reality

I hate all of this "well, I think we should just ignore all the damage our Reps have done because...it's her Moment!!(TM)"

[MoveIt]

106. Bravo

callous OP.

[LW1977]

28. k&r

[tularetom]

30. What are you gonna say when the Clintons throw Obama under the bus?

Bill Clinton obviously dislikes him and has publicly disrespected him in the past.

And once Hillary has the nomination sewed up and needs to broaden her appeal to "moderate" and "independent" voters (that means lower and middle class whites), she won't hesitate for a minute to distance herself from Obama policies that her focus group handlers and media gurus tell her are "unpopular" with those demographics.

[BooScout]

32. gee... I seem to remember both Clintons campaigning for Obama....

And Obama asking Hillary join him in his administration and help restore America to the right path. I seem to remember Hillary working very hard for party unity....not to rip it apart and criticize everything about it. Isn't that odd how we live in a different reality from one another?

[Fawke Em]

43. THAT'S the reason they campaigned for him.

So Hillary would be asked to join the administration.

[Scootaloo]

46. Hey Booscout. Over three hundred thousand human beings are dead.

Want to tell me how it is an apology to you clears that fact up? Please? I'd really like to know.

[Phlem]

54. So it's OK for Obama to throw the "Professional Left" under

the bus on Fox News but not the other way around? Are you sure your in the right party?

Complete and utter hypocrisy.

[Turbineguy]

33. It's really astonishing what he's accomplished.

Even without the opposition of the republicans. If Roosevelt had these clowns, the allies would have lost WWII.

[Fred Sanders]

58. Astonishing and not to be mentioned ever again in case gloom and doom Americans end up celebrating something.

[Fumesucker]

95. "These clowns" tried to pull a coup on Roosevelt

[roguevalley]

35. actually when I disagree with politicians I will say. period

[jomin41]

36. We were extremely lucky to have Obama instead

of McCain or Romney. Can you imagine where we'd be right now? I've seen presidents since FDR and Barack Obama is one of the greats, imho. History will be kind to him, even if some idiots don't think so now.

[jwirr]

48. I think it is too early to decide how history will treat

him. I think they will be fair but a lot will depend on the long run outcome of his individual successes.

One example will be the TPP. If he gets it passed during his last term and it does what many of us are afraid it will do then historians will look back at the rest of his economic decisions - appointments etc. - and that will play into his legacy.

When one looks at the things Bill Clinton did like NAFTA, the Communications Act and Glass-Steagall the long range effect is not so great. Many of us who once supported him are waking up. The historians will be seeing the same thing.

The legacy of any president is more dependent on the long range effect of his actions than just on the passage of bills. On the effects of his actions on the people not the corporations.

[frylock]

37. SUBTEXT: Don't fuck this up for Hillary.

[draa]

38. The childhood poverty rate

is higher than it was at the height of the recession in 2008. 16 million children are doing without basic necessities. But oh, Wall Street and corporations like GM got bailed out to the tune of trillions of taxpayer dollars. That's a failure anyway you look at it.

Obama is the President. If we can blame people like GWB for their failures then it's only fair to blame Obama for his. Children starving, while the rich continue to profit, is a failure and Obama must share that blame. Especially when so little has been done to try and prevent it.

[Bohemianwriter]

39. Throwing under a bus?

How is that?

No. There are still millions of Americans denied coverage under ACA.

Whistle-blowers are still facing persecution, war criminals still goes free.

She still wants to prosecute pot smokers under federal law.

Why this obsession with keeping up establishment, corruption, and what I call political dynasties?

[Z_California]

40. Fall into line proles

The President is above criticism. What do you think this is, a political discussion board?

[Gothmog]

41. Obama has been a great president

[davidpdx]

100. Unless you say that out loud people will accuse you of Obama hate

or not defending him enough. They (a certain group of DUers) are creative in their accusations.

[cherokeeprogressive]

47. Yawn... who cares? Do you think HE does?

The Obama's are going to live a billionaire lifestyle starting in early 2017. Do you think He agonizes over what gets posted on DU when He lays his head on the pillow every night? Yeah, me either.

Funniest thing about DU... this handwringing over what gets posted about politicians; as if they cared about that OR us.

[Bobbie Jo]

65. What?

No RW garbage to drag up in here today?

[cherokeeprogressive]

66. That was so brilliant I got a sunburn just being exposed to the words you typed...

That's all you got?

Still yawning.

[Bobbie Jo]

71. Yeah, well

Already saw "what you got."

The concept of shame is foreign to some folks, apparently.

Keep yawning, beats the other crap getting drug up in here.

[cherokeeprogressive]

72. Some at DU use shame as a rhetorical device...

And its purpose is to stifle any and all discussion they find distasteful, which pretty much equates to anything they disagree with.

Yeah... if it's an echo chamber you want; keep looking.

[Bobbie Jo]

73. Back when this place had actual standards

Anyone seen dragging in such utter RW garbage would have been shown the door and publically humiliated.

Rightly so....

I came here to get away from the Limbaughs of the world. If you want to call that an "echo chamber," fine...just goes to demonstrate how much the standards have devolved. Seems to suit you just fine.

Meh, welcome to the new DU.

Stand proud.

[cherokeeprogressive]

74. Wow you made my point 10x better than I ever could have.

"Stand proud." indeed.

[Bobbie Jo]

77. No I didn't

You have no valid point here.

RW garbage is RW garbage, makes little difference who is serving it up.

[cherokeeprogressive]

78. I am SO ashamed.

[Puzzledtraveller]

85. My sentiment exactly Cherokee.

[Phlem]

113. Exactly.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

51. As a Kucinich supporter all I can say is.....

Obama was still better than Hillary.

[Phlem]

55. What a pant load. Unrec!

[Hoyt]

56. Yep, "never good enough." Disgusting reading some of the crud.

[JoePhilly]

57. Those who've attacked Obama endlessly have been wrong over and over and over ...

... you'd think at some point they'd become slightly more introspective.

But they have not.

Instead, they continue to write very bold OPs pronouncing their judgements on what Clinton would do, as if their predictions about Obama had been correct.

They were wrong about DADT, DOMA, Social Security, Medicare, the Bush tax cuts, the ACA, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Egypt, and Iran. They demanded a primary of Obama that never came. They claimed Obama was definitely going to force through the TPP and the XL pipeline ... its been 4 years plus for both ... neither has happened, and Obama has vetoed any effort to force the XL pipeline through .... so much for him "forcing" those through.

Wrong over and over. And still their hair spontaneously bursts into flames with little warning.

They've adopted Bernie as their new savior (after Warren turned it down) ... and were Bernie (or Warren) to become President, they'd be crucifying him (or her) immediately after the first compromise.

[Bobbie Jo]

64. This.

Falling in line one by one here.

Track record, abysmal.

[Armstead]

86. Yes those values and principles and beliefs are such a pain in the ass

[JoePhilly]

108. Nothing is always better than something ...

... is that the principle/belief you are defending??

Some on DU wear being wrong repeatedly as if it were a badge of honor.

All of those predictions of the evil things Obama was going to do ... predictions made by DU's self-appointed high Priests of liberalism.

Wrong over and over.

And yet each day, they climb back up into the pulpit to make their pronouncements.

The sanctimonious Baptist ministers I encountered in my youth have nothing on them.

[Number23]

89. For real. And it would be funny as hell if it wasn't so fucking BIZARRE

Those who've attacked Obama endlessly have been wrong over and over and over ...... you'd think at some point they'd become slightly more introspective.

Or at least would have the sense to wait until the thing they're shrieking over has actually happened. But instead, they continue to be loud and wrong. And when the thing they're shrieking about doesn't happen -- AGAIN -- they just move on to the next "issue" like it ain't nothing in the world.

[Armstead]

59. Stale old memes deserve a stale old reply

Some people care about ISSUES and the DIRECTION OF THE COUNTRY more than the Red Team/ Blue Team "ooooooooo it's all the GOP's fault" partisan straightjacket.

Most people in that category are members or independents who identify with the Democratic Party and will support whomever against any GOP candidate when it comes down to it.

And I'd dare say a large majority like and ultimately support President Obama in a broad sense. But we disagree with him on specifics, and or general strategies since he has been in office. Criticizing that doesn't mean we "hate" him or want to "bash" him or don't ultimately support him.

Likewise, we don't "hate" or mindlessly oppose Clinton.

BUT we're also angry and frustrated by many of the tendencies of the Democratic Party over the last 35 years -- especially the "centrist" DLC Third Way types -- because too often it has either surrendered to, or collaborated with, bad policies and bad messages and bad strategies, including GOP and Corporate Bullshit. And thus, have been a big part of the problems that we see today.

The litany of specifics is too long and complicated to go into here. But the point is that that many people -- to varying degrees -- believe that it is more important to express and work for the principles, values and policies we believe are important for the country than to mindlessly cheer on the D Team regardless of what they do.

[Z_California]

81. There's too much nuance here

Can't we just have black or white?

[Armstead]

82. Thinking is Good

Nice and simple

[beam me up scottie]

90. Don't confuse the op by bringing up issues!

Don't you know they're not important?

All that matters is that the coronation is being interrupted by some rude commoners!

Must swarm Bernie!

Buzz Buzz BUZZ!

[Scootaloo]

93. "Bernghazi! Bernghazi! Bernghazi!"

If they were half as enthusiastic about Clinton as they are hostile towards Sanders, they MIGHT get somewhere.

[beam me up scottie]

94. Why are they being so nasty today?

[ericson00]

69. This party needs an 11th commandment

and we must honour our heroes.

[Scootaloo]

98. You know that "11th commandment" is a Ronald Reagan thing, right?

[davidpdx]

101. Apparently it is a Hillary Clinton thing as well

[SunSeeker]

79. K & R

[Drunken Irishman]

80. Democrats would be stupid to throw Obama under the bus. He's done something Hill or Bern haven't..,

He's won a national election - twice. Only a fool would toss that out the window. Obama has a winning coalition the Dems NEED to win - namely minorities and younger voters.

The problem is that Hillary can't seem to connect with the younger voters and Bernie can't seem to connect with minorities.

[davidpdx]

102. DI, long-time no see

[Martin Eden]

111. Democrats ran away from Obama in the 2014 midterms

Rather than dispel the false memes and extol the accomplishments, they accepted the rightwing frames and the voters went for real Republicans instead of fake ones.

[Phlem]

114. yep.

[SouthernProgressive]

87. I think Obama has been strong to the point...

That almost my whole thought process is who is best suited to continue the progress that has been made since Bush left office. I think the momentum is in our direction and Republicans are currently doing more damage to their brand.

[Scootaloo]

92. Pfft, snipe-and-run n/t

[Armstead]

96. "we all know who it's meant to deflect scrutiny from now don't we?"

No please tell us who it was meant to deflect from in the 1990's when unions and many progressves went to Seattle to protest "free trade globalization."

Or in the 1990's when many people warned what would happen of we kept deregulating the banks and financial sector. Asking the Democrats to stand up against that.

Or in the early 009's when many of us stood in 10 degree weather to protest GWB's rush to war

Or.........

It guess it was all a long plot to deflect scrutiny from that great Lord of Darkness........Bernie Sanders!

moihhaha....You've caught into the 30 year long plot

[jfern]

99. Remember when Hillary attacked Obama for not arming the Syrian jihadists?

Yeah, we'll side with Obama there.

[BlueStateLib]

103. President Obama on Friday

Sep 19, 2014 - President Obama on Friday signed legislation that gives the U.S. approval to arm and train Syrian rebels in the fight against the Islamic State

[jfern]

104. Well, at least he wasn't in favor until Hillary attacked him

But yeah, obviously I side with Sanders who voted no.

[Martin Eden]

107. STRAWMAN much???

"And trying to blame Obama and Clinton for all that is wrong in America and the world is duplicitous."

I'm not sure who is more off the rails -- an internet troll who would actually lay that blame, or the OP in this thread engaging in extreme hyperbole by lumping together all criticism of Obama and Clinton into that colossal strawman.

There is such a thing as legitimate criticism. It's not throwing someone under the bus to strongly disagree with them on policies that affect people's lives, and it certainly doesn't amount to blaming them for all the ills of the world.

Here's another one:
"And folks blaming The war in Iraq on Hillary?! .....well Bullshit"

I've been consistent in my criticism of Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Joe Biden, et al, for their IWR vote. It is inexcusable, and I will never vote for any of them in a Democratic primary. The argument that HRC or any of them were fooled by the Bush administration's systematic campaign of propaganda or that they believed Bush would act in good faith once given the authority for war is an argument against the competency of those politicians and their fitness to hold high office. I wasn't fooled, and if you weren't fooled how can you trust a US Senator whose excuse is that they were fooled?

No. They were either on board with the neocon agenda or they stuck their fingers in the post-9/11 winds and decided it was better for their political careers to be hawks.

The most ridiculous and absurd argument I've seen is they were doing what their constituents wanted, based on polls that the public was fooled by the propaganda.

Is that how you define leadership in a time of national crisis -- go along with the propaganda and vote for a war based on lies rather than stand up and truly represent the interests of your constituents (especially the people of New York City who were attacked) by speaking truth to power while advocating a course of action that actually made sense for our national security??!!!

There's plenty of blame to go around for the disastrous war in Iraq. It's not an all-or-nothing equation. Every member of Congress who voted for it has a share, but the lion's share goes to the Cheney/Bush cabal. THEY are the ones we say should be tried for war crimes, not Hillary Clinton or John Kerry or Joe Biden.

So yeah, it's a Bullshit assertion that DUers are blaming Hillary for the Iraq war and all that's wrong with America and the world. It's a huge strawman constructed by someone who doesn't have a compelling argument in this matter. Sure, Hillary admitted her vote was wrong; it was a political necessity because WTF else could she do -- stand by it?

[aikoaiko]

109. Some people want better. That's all its about.

If you don't want better than Obama, then vote for HRC. You'll get what you want.

[uponit7771]

117. The hatred for Obama and Clinton go hand in hand damn near... Let either Clinton or Sanders run

... from Obama and they have no black vote to speak of

[uponit7771]

119. Whom ever is the dem candidate will be Obama best friend or lose 30% of the black vote, see off year

... elections for example. Blue dog democrats ran from Obama and black folk ran from the blue dogs