Does Mitt make his 10% tithe on gross or net income?

[hedgehog]

[muriel_volestrangler]

1. There's scarecly any difference

since he pays so little in tax.

[Igel]

2. Somebody should ask him.

Then again, it may vary over time and it's probably a personal choice.

Difficult thing is that there are usually donations above and beyond tithes, but in tax returns you just list "charitable contributions" to an organization--not what they're called. Unless you include all the documentation, which seems a bit much, if you ask me.

I've known people that did one or the other, and people who ignored the totals reported to the IRS as income. In some cases those ignoring the IRS figures tithed what they considered their gross income (which might not be the same as the IRS) and in some cases their net income (which also might not be the same as the IRS).

When I tithed long ago I ignored my tax return figures. I tithed my "increase." That included backyard produce that the IRS ignored. It included what I was given for helping somebody move. But I didn't tithe on the money I had to spend in order to keep my job, even if the IRS said I couldn't deduct it from my taxes.

If I were Romney in some of the years there'd be limits on my deductible losses as far as the IRS is concerned--I'd have to carry them over, some might never be deducted. I'd deduct them from my tithable income the year they were incurred. He might not. LDS doctrine might be more explicit than my church's guidelines, but in the end they're still guidelines.

[stuffmatters]

3. i.e.Is Romney stiffing the Mormon Church?

I've been wondering this. With all the Romneys' tax evading accounts and hundreds of millions in secret offshore accounts plus the hundred million they passed through tax free to his sons, what ledger sheet does the Mormon Church get access to for determining their tithe? Has the Church been allowed to access their real records/wealth each year or have they worked from the deliberately minimizing accountings furnished the IRS? Gross income would be all of their income, without the tax shelters, off shore and undeclared accounts,"pass through trusts", outsized IRA's etc. Net income would be only the bottom line of taxable income on their IRS statement.

Are their two sets of books--one for the American IRS & one for the Mormon Church? Or just one set of books,the IRS ledger , and the Romneys have serially dodged paying their fair share to both their government and their church.

[sofa king]

5. I have heard...

... that full disclosure of a member's finances--and appropriate tithing--is the thing that the Mormon God demands above all else, even more than an unlimited supply of Scandinavian blondes and unquestioning loyalty.

There is no reason to think that Mitt would not lie to them as easily as he has lied to the rest of us, but there is also no reason to think that Mitt would tell them the same lies he's telling us. The Church likely has information which the rest of us do not, like a record of annual tithes which do not corroborate at all with Romney's tax returns for those years.

That's some powerful leverage over a candidate who is obviously more afraid of going to jail than desirous of winning a Presidential election. It's not going to work out real well for that candidate, either, since the Church's goal is to legitimize itself in the eyes of the public, which does not require actually winning this election.

That is why I think the church is going to have the final say over whom Romney picks as his running mate. Jon Huntsman isn't out of it just yet.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

6. Didn't Ann say they give 10% of their income to the Church each year?

that must be a lot of money - millions!

[sofa king]

7. Yes, but 10% of WHICH income?

The income reported to the federal government, or the much, much larger sum that we can now safely assume was neither reported to nor taxed by the federal government?

Because if Mitt was lying to the government and telling the truth to God, then the government has a problem with him. If he was lying to God and telling the truth to the government, then God has a problem with him.

The one thing we can be nearly certain of at this point is that he wasn't telling the truth to one or both of them. Otherwise, he wouldn't risk losing a Presidential election by refusing to disclose the relevant details now.

He wants to be President real bad, so his refusal to disclose must risk imprisonment, excommunication, or both. My guess is both.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

8. He hopes that Karl rove and the media are going to save him?

[sofa king]

9. President Obama has the hope market cornered, I think.

So good luck to him with that!

[hedgehog]

10. I have been ambivalent since it became clear that Romney was in this time

about whether or not to fear the Mormon elders. As a Catholic, I separate my Church from the damage the Vatican and the bishops do; I more or less ignore the right wing attitudes and misogyny and fear of teh gays coming from that direction. I haven't given a penny in a long time. (OK, maybe I donated $20 during Lent for the collection for Heifer international). I'm also just old enough to personally recall the bigotry the JFK faced.

I know a lot of good Mormon people.

On the other hand, I know that Mormons really do tend to obey their leaders (unlike a lot of us Catholics.) That gives me pause.

But - then someone pointed out that the Mormon Church has been instrumental in lobbying against gay rights. So that's where Mitt's money has been going. Mitt doesn't just listen to Mormon elders, Mitt is a Mormon elder. As such, the attitudes he holds dear mean that no one has to give him orders, he's already there.

[davidpdx]

12. Well put

[eliminerlesud]

4. Mitt is more afraid of the Mormon Church then the IRS

that is why he does not want to release his past tax froms.

If the Church found out that a Bishop in thier Chruch was cheating it out of its rightful cut, Mitt would be in deep do-do.

[Lil Missy]

11. Only the income he can't hide

[Kablooie]

13. Whatever it is, it's a tax deduction to a charitable organization.