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Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:11 PM

Joe Biden: ‘Abortion Is Always Wrong’

Vice President Joe Biden believes that life begins at conception, according to a statement he made while inviting pro-lifers to join the Democratic party in conjunction with Pope Francis’s visit to the United States.

Biden maintained that the question of when life begins is a religious matter. “I’m prepared to accept that at the moment of conception there’s human life and being, but I’m not prepared to say that to other God­-fearing [and] non­-God­-fearing people that have a different view,” he said during an interview published by America, a Jesuit-run outlet, on Monday.

“Abortion is always wrong,” Biden continued. “All the principles of my faith, {which} I make no excuse for attempting to live up to — I don’t all the time. But I’m not prepared to impose doctrine that I’m prepared to accept on the rest of {the country}.”


I have never thought of myself as a "non-God-fearing" person, but I suppose I cannot deny that label.

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Reply Joe Biden: ‘Abortion Is Always Wrong’ (Original post)
Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 OP
Metric System Sep 2015 #1
yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #51
magical thyme Sep 2015 #105
randys1 Sep 2015 #153
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magical thyme Sep 2015 #164
valerief Sep 2015 #2
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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:14 PM

1. ALWAYS wrong? Even in the case of rape?!? Very disappointed to hear this from Biden.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:44 AM

51. He's always felt that way

 

Actually nothing wrong with him having an opinion. He said the same thing during the vice presidential debate.

His issue is forcing others to believe what he does and he refuses to do that.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:13 AM

105. Biden is a Catholic, so yes he believes teeny humans are created at conception

 

and that all abortion is wrong. No matter how the conception took place.

NO MATTER IF CARRYING THE FETUS TO TERM WILL KILL THE MOTHER.

NO MATTER IF CARRYING THE FETUS TO TERM WILL KILL THE MOTHER AND THE BABY.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #105)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:51 PM

153. Reminds me of Ben CArson. How can these two men who are both SO

intelligent in some areas, be so dumb in others.

I am a recovering Catholic, and I know better than to hold this ridiculous view.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:46 AM

109. He said that's his belief but he doesn't believe in imposing that on others . . .

which is reasonable and unlike that kook county clerk in Texas.

He will lose much support by saying this though.

I believe Biden was signaling he won't run.

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Response to brush (Reply #109)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:19 PM

164. I'm aware of that. Was responding to Metric's surprise at his personal beliefs.

 

I oppose Biden for other issues....financial, military, national security, police.

I believe him when he says he won't impose his personal beliefs on others.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:19 PM

2. Joe, you might not always be wrong, but you're sure as hell wrong this time. nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:27 PM

7. Why is he wrong about his personal beliefs?

The keyword there is personal. I'm a staunch supporter of abortion. But I'm very confidant in my choice. I don't need joe Biden to validate me. All he is required to do is keep his religion out of public spaces in his role as a government official.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:28 PM

10. Not playing. Ciao forever. nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:33 PM

15. good decision

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:30 AM

46. "Abortion is always wrong"

 

Demonstrably and objectively untrue.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:22 AM

75. Because his opinion demonstrates ignorance. Some pregnancies are destined, for example, to cause

death to the mother and/or one or more fetuses. A categorical statement like that indicates a willingness to reach an absolure opinion on an issue without first learning all the facts.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #75)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:22 AM

88. I am not surprised about the "I don't want to impose my religious views on others" statement

That's pretty standard.

I am disappointed to see the "Life begins at" argument. It exploits ignorance of biogenesis to endorse a myth regarding the over-arching specialness of conception that is hypocritical and primarily applied, to deny women the right to reproductive self-defense.








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Response to underthematrix (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 08:05 PM

183. Well, that certainly sends a message to women.


I'm glad he draws the line between his personal beliefs on abortion and his desire to impose those beliefs, but still....

This is an example of why he will never be the Democratic nominee.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:21 PM

3. Here's the critical part:

But I’m not prepared to impose doctrine that I’m prepared to accept on the rest of {the country}.

That right there is the way you handle your personal faith in a public space

Now the PSYOPS part of the title of this article is to pull a statement from his personal beliefs a statement that ONLY refers to him and not to the other people.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:26 PM

6. THIS!!!!

I cannot stand these types of OPs.

Joe Biden is for a woman's right to choose.

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:36 PM

16. The OP title is the title of the article. Before saying "Biden is for a woman's right to choose,"

you should read up on that position.

Biden has repeatedly supported the Hyde Amendment.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #16)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:54 PM

27. What article?

The only cite I see is one to National Review buried in some text.

Did you write this, or did you never learn copyright law?

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #27)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:56 PM

29. The article linked which is the article quoted which is the title of the OP

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:06 AM

34. The article from "National Review", then.

You should learn how to do attribution, counselor.

BTW, the quotes in the article are edited and contextually twisted.

Here's the PDF from which these concoctions were obtained:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B64aMhgtMmKyRDFsb1k5R0NEb0U&usp=sharing

End of page 4 to beginning of page 5.

Case dismissed.

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:39 PM

18. It's that mentality that I hate

on both sides. It's like middle school. If you don't wear the same outfit as me, it means my outfit isn't as good as yours.

Joe Biden is great on women's issues. He married all the women he had children with, which is a sign of respect for the mother and the child.

Bernie was married twice but had his daughter (his only biological child) by a third woman out of wedlock.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:45 PM

21. WTF? "Bernie...had his daughter (his only biological child) by a third woman out of wedlock"

Jesus Christ, you don't even know what the hell you're talking about.

No wonder you're defending Joe.

Guess who this is?:


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Response to underthematrix (Reply #18)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:57 AM

91. are we really going to go there?


"Joe Biden is great on women's issues. He married all the women he had children with, which is a sign of respect for the mother and the child.

Bernie was married twice but had his daughter (his only biological child) by a third woman out of wedlock."

wow. just wow.

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #91)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:10 AM

103. And Bernie had a son "out of wedlock" so they're not even smearing him correctly.

That tells you everything you need to know about that poster.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #103)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:12 AM

115. low information poster

hey, can we coin that?

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #115)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:16 AM

117. I like it! I'm sure we'll have a chance to use it daily here.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #117)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:17 AM

118. bwahahahaha, yes we will!! nt

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #115)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:55 PM

155. please do. I would love it.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #155)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:00 PM

160. :) nt

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #155)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:22 PM

167. So anything to say about Bernie's "daughter"?


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #167)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:32 PM

168. Damn, Bernie's son, Levi is a boy

and he's with my favorite most awesome person in the world. President Obama before he was president.

thank you for the correction

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:33 PM

14. That's the difference between Democrats and Republicans. Huckabee, take note.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #14)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:37 PM

133. Except Huckabee never voted to overturn Roe. Biden did.

http://www.nrlc.org/archive/ObamaAbortionAgenda/BidenProofVoteForHatchAmendToOverturnRoe.pdf

(In fairness, Huckabee never had the chance to vote to overturn Roe)

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:11 AM

37. Yes

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 03:31 AM

84. It's good that he added that part, but...

he's still adding fuel to the anti-abortion rights fire. Furthermore, the basis for his opposition is unscientific and has no place in public policy.

I don't understand why faith, believing in that for which there is zero evidence, is considered a virtue. Religious belief is personal, so let's keep it that way.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:01 AM

87. ^ YES ^ Thank you!

And that's been his consistent legislative position and impeccably honorable constitutional philosophy -- and that of almost all Catholic congressional Democrats -- since forever.

He has supported pro-choice legislation consistently, not out of hypocrisy or pandering, but out of unshakeable conviction in the vital importance of the separation of church and state. Isn't this what we want, folks?

Wow, not a single debate or primary yet, and I'm already exhausted by the daily hysteria and distortions. .

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Response to MBS (Reply #87)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:02 AM

99. Except he didn't consistently support pro-choice legislation.

Maybe you should get all the facts before you accuse women of hysteria.

You couldn't possibly have exhausted yourself reading the thread otherwise you'd know Biden voted against pro-choice legislation.


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Response to underthematrix (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:57 AM

110. When rights are under assault, that is not good enough.

"I agree with them, but I'll let you plebes get away with it" is not good enough. Because we need someone to actually fight back against the gradual chipping away of Roe.

Someone who fundamentally disagrees with Roe is not going to be an effective fighter for Roe. They're going to say things like "Well, we can ban this one procedure". Or "Waiting periods are OK". They will internally excuse it by claiming women have other options. Forgetting that "women" includes more than women living in a Northeastern city with plenty of money and their own car and a job they can repeatedly take time off from during the day.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #110)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:55 AM

126. Thank you.

Well said, jeff!



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Response to jeff47 (Reply #110)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:11 PM

127. ^^This.^^ Thank you, Jeff. nt

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:36 PM

132. It "only refers to him" but he can't get pregnant.

 

I never understood that.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:49 PM

151. Biden will not impose his personal beliefs on the nation...separating religion from policy is good.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #151)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:51 PM

152. He already did more than once, Fred.

Keep up.

http://www.nrlc.org/archive/ObamaAbortionAgenda/BidenProofVoteForHatchAmendToOverturnRoe.pdf

Allow women to choose, but no federal funding

I remember vividly the first time, in 1973, I had to go to the floor to vote on abortion. A fellow Senator asked how I would vote. “My position is that I am personally opposed to abortion, but I don’t think I have a right to impose my few on the rest of society. I’ve thought a lot about it, and my position probably doesn’t please anyone. I think the government should stay out completely. I will not vote to overturn the Court’s decision. I will not vote to curtail a woman’s right to choose abortion. But I will also not vote to use federal funds to fund abortion.“

***

No public funding for abortion; it imposes a view

Q: Are you still opposed to public funding for abortion?

A: I still am opposed to public funding for abortion. It goes to the question of whether or not you’re going to impose a view to support something that is not a guaranteed right but an affirmative action to promote.

Source: Meet the Press: 2007 “Meet the Candidates” series , Apr 29, 2007

***

Supports partial-birth abortion ban, but not undoing Roe

Q: You supported the ban on partial-birth abortions or late-term abortions.

A: I did and I do.


***

Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions.

This legislation, if enacted, would ban the abortion procedure in which the physician partially delivers the fetus before completing the abortion. [A NO vote supports abortion rights].

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Joe_Biden_Abortion.htm

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #152)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:56 PM

156. I guess just attacking Clinton using RW rags is not good enough for some. All Democrats are targets?

Is Obama the next meal on the plate?

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #156)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:57 PM

157. What RW rag? On the issues? His own signature on the HLF amendment?

Do you deny he signed the Human Life Federalism Amendment?

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:23 PM

4. Even when a child is raped and gets pregnant?

Or when a mother's life is at risk?

That's fucked up, Joe.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:29 PM

11. it doesn't matter what Joe Biden believes

personally, the Supreme court upheld Roe v Wade which says a woman has a right to make personal decisions about her body. That's the law.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:31 PM

12. Yes it fucking well does when he tells women that "abortion is always wrong".

I get enough of that holier than thou sanctimonious "Abortion is always wrong" horseshit from forced birthers, I don't want to hear it from the vice president.

A Democrat no less.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:42 PM

19. he said that it's his personal belief. It wasn't meant for you and me

it's his personal belief for himself. I think you've got him confused with GOP KKKochroaches.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:48 PM

23. It is meant for me, he's telling women that our choice to abort is always wrong.

That includes children who were raped, women whose lives are at risk and women whose fetuses have severe defects.

We don't need men to tell us we should feel guilty because it's WRONG to choose to abort a fetus.


THAT IS FUCKED UP.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:35 AM

48. Personal beliefs are kept personal

 

When stated publicly, they are his public belief, and they carry judgement of other people given his position in society. His "personal beliefs" on bankruptcy influenced bankruptcy law. His "personal beliefs" on the death penalty led to more death penalty crimes, "three strikes", mandatory sentencing and many other grave injustices.

He doesn't get a pass for claiming a "personal belief" exemption.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #12)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:49 AM

54. Did you miss the vice presidential debate with Paul Ryan?

 

He said the same thing 4 years ago. Did you vote for the ticket?

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #54)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:50 AM

57. No. Are you really going to lecture me on abortion?

I voted for Obama because he is 100% pro-choice.

Shouldn't you be defending the Duggars in GD instead of telling me who and what I voted for?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:55 AM

59. Interesting. I voted for the Obama Biden ticket

 

Who knew they were separated. Learn something new everyday.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #59)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:57 AM

62. Go peddle this crap elsewhere. It's not your life on the line.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #62)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:02 AM

64. I didn't start the OP

 

Perhaps you can request it be taken down if it concerns you. I see many different opinions offered here.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #64)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:02 AM

65. No, you're just in here lecturing women on their rights and how they should feel about them.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #65)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:04 AM

68. I didn't give my opinion at all

 

I offered up proof that Biden has held these beliefs for a long time and that the country voted for the ticket anyway. In no way did I give anything more then facts.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #68)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:09 AM

71. And asking me if I knew who I voted for is what, sincere concern?

Spare me.

Someone somewhere on DU is criticizing the Duggars, maybe you should go counsel them.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #71)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:10 AM

72. The duggars are old news. We are discussing current news of the VP

 

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #72)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:11 AM

73. Yes we are, and his lousy judgmental opinion about women and abortion.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #73)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:13 AM

74. True. I never said otherwise.

 

Have a great night!

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #12)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 08:16 AM

95. i wish dems could stay on point on this


all dems should be hammering home the point that if we had better and universal health care, more widely available contraceptives, an economy where women did not have to work three jobs to barely be able to feed their one kid and stay with deadbeat losers becsuse they have no financial freedom, where male dominance and rape is always condemned as the evil it is, that abortions would drop even further because the factors leading to those pregnancies would have been dealt with.

imo we have the financial, medical, and technological capability to make abortion necessary to save a woman's life but otherwise obsolete (because unintended pregnancies could almost disappear).

we just need the collective will. and that is what the gop doesnt get...they want to stop (most) abortions? give women proper health care and contraception, and the ability to be financially stable, and lock up the losers who rape and exploit them. lets start there, misogynistic assholes.

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #95)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:08 AM

101. They don't want us to have any options.

They want to slut shame women and doom us to a lifetime of poverty when we get pregnant.

That's the Republican/Christian way.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #101)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:18 AM

106. then they sure as hell are not christians

forced poverty is completely antithetical to the beatitudes, the words of Jesus himself.

your christians are so unlike your Christ.---gandhi

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Response to restorefreedom (Reply #106)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:23 AM

108. Yes they are.

Judeo-Christian religion is full of misogyny and it's been used to keep women oppressed for thousands of years.

Liberal Christians aren't misogynists but they aren't the only ones who can claim that title.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #108)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:16 AM

116. unfortunately the historical foundation is there

but i believe that within every religion as well as atheism, there is an option to live out the best version of that religion or the worst.

most republicans have clearly chosen the worst

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:24 PM

5. I disagree with Joe but I respect his personal belief.

I am also very happy that he chooses not to try to impose his personal belief on any of the population. He is separating church from state and that is good.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:27 PM

8. In case you haven't noticed, Joe, generally pro-lifers who

think abortion is always wrong ARE intent on forcing their views down others' throats.

There isn't a tent big enough for me and for them.

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Response to CharlotteVale (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:33 PM

13. Joe Biden was in the Senate over 20 years and he never sponsored a bill to

overturn Roe v Wade. we are goverened by the rule of law not anyone's personal belief system. That's why kin Davis is such a weak crazy shit. She's like so many other weakass people who can't strong for their beliefs unless someone is agreeing with them or vaidating them. Geez.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:39 PM

17. I never said he did. But

he did invite pro-lifers to join the Democratic Party. How much further right can it go? I will never, under any circumstances, vote for a pro-lifer no matter what letter is after their name.

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Response to CharlotteVale (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:45 PM

20. what's wrong with prolifers?

The MAJORITY of BLACK people are PROLIFERS. The MAJORITY of LATINOS are PROLIFERS.

Im AA and spent my youth in church but i have always been pro-choice.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #20)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:49 PM

24. I don't answer to you. I will not vote for a pro-lifer. Period.

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Response to CharlotteVale (Reply #24)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:55 PM

28. Oh I see. You wear your values on your

sleeve and unless it's reflected on the sleeves of others, you just can't go there. Bless your heart.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #28)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:00 AM

31. Yes, how dare we uppity women get hysterical over a piddly thing like reproductive rights?

You're a real piece of work.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:43 PM

149. Well I really stepped into a cesspool of outrage

As a 65 y/o AA woman I woud say I know a little something abot reproductive rights. i was part of the Civil Rights movement and sexual revolution. I didn't get involved in the 2nd wave feminist movement because many black women at that time were busy mocking it more in an ironic rather than mean way.

Biden would never sign a bill depriving women of their reproductive rights because his PERSONAL VIEWS differ from the majority of Americans. This is just silliness. He's a mature individual who took an oath to uphold the Constitution which includes separation of Church and State. It does not allow him to impose his PERSONAL BELIEFS on our secular gov't.

You may not like his personal beliefs but he has not demonstrated he would impose those beliefs on Amercians through policy. Never.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #149)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:47 PM

150. NEWSFLASH: HE DID SIGN A BILL DEPRIVING US OF OUR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS:

http://www.nrlc.org/archive/ObamaAbortionAgenda/BidenProofVoteForHatchAmendToOverturnRoe.pdf

You may not like his personal beliefs but he has not demonstrated he would impose those beliefs on Amercians through policy. Never.


http://www.nrlc.org/archive/ObamaAbortionAgenda/BidenProofVoteForHatchAmendToOverturnRoe.pdf

Allow women to choose, but no federal funding

I remember vividly the first time, in 1973, I had to go to the floor to vote on abortion. A fellow Senator asked how I would vote. “My position is that I am personally opposed to abortion, but I don’t think I have a right to impose my few on the rest of society. I’ve thought a lot about it, and my position probably doesn’t please anyone. I think the government should stay out completely. I will not vote to overturn the Court’s decision. I will not vote to curtail a woman’s right to choose abortion. But I will also not vote to use federal funds to fund abortion.“

***

No public funding for abortion; it imposes a view

Q: Are you still opposed to public funding for abortion?

A: I still am opposed to public funding for abortion. It goes to the question of whether or not you’re going to impose a view to support something that is not a guaranteed right but an affirmative action to promote.

Source: Meet the Press: 2007 “Meet the Candidates” series , Apr 29, 2007

***

Supports partial-birth abortion ban, but not undoing Roe

Q: You supported the ban on partial-birth abortions or late-term abortions.

A: I did and I do.


***

Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions.

This legislation, if enacted, would ban the abortion procedure in which the physician partially delivers the fetus before completing the abortion. [A NO vote supports abortion rights].

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Joe_Biden_Abortion.htm




You obviously know NOTHING about Biden and very little about who is actually fighting for our rights.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #28)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:08 AM

35. Keep your blessing to yourself, I don't believe in that stuff.

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Response to CharlotteVale (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:51 AM

58. Interesting. Did you vote in 2012?

 

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:49 PM

25. Didn't he vote for the Human Life Amendment?

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #25)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:40 PM

187. The one he voted for was called the "Human Life Federalism Amendment"

It's the only constitutional amendment to overturn Roe that actually got a floor vote. He voted for it.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #13)


Response to underthematrix (Reply #13)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:32 PM

130. Nah, he just voted for a bill to overturn Roe.

http://www.nrlc.org/archive/ObamaAbortionAgenda/BidenProofVoteForHatchAmendToOverturnRoe.pdf

I'm sure the difference between voting for overturning Roe but not sponsoring it is somehow meaningful.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:28 PM

9. Who cares what Joe is prepared for, anyway?

What he thinks has ZERO to do with what any woman is prepared to do based on an informed, sensitive consultation with her doctor.

I fear Joe's imagined wisdom more than anyone's ignorance around this issue.

Joe.. STFU

Got it?

Good.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:47 PM

22. Sigh, it's a long time since Mario Cuomo so eloquently

talked about his beliefs vs. policy in that incredible talk he did...

No one can ever match that speech...

Certainly not Biden...

And I am so SICK of the pandering to this Pope...or any Pope.

If the Vatican is "state" and a Pope represents this entity, then its offshoots should be TAXED!! They get involved in public policy all the time...TAX all churches!!

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Response to Gloria (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:00 AM

63. The president doesn't share you concern

 

He has accepted the pope in the United States and has been welcoming and respectful. Thank goodness he is president.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #63)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:03 AM

66. Fuck the pope.

He's another forced birther who thinks we should be incubators for the Church.

He also thinks lgbt people are disordered and shouldn't be allowed to marry or adopt children.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #66)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:05 AM

69. Again the president doesn't share your opinion

 

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #69)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:07 AM

70. He sure as hell doesn't agree with the pope about women's and lgbt rights.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #70)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:33 PM

131. However, he made sure to say a woman should talk to their

religious person when making a decision...as if everyone wants to do that or could do that, with the attitudes a lot of them have...

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Response to Gloria (Reply #131)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:38 PM

134. That is seriously fucked up too.

Not as bad as the Pope but telling women who they should and shouldn't consult before they exercise their right to choose is bullshit.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #134)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 03:40 PM

146. It's called being PATRONIZING

and Obama has done that, too.

He was in bed with evangelicals and I wrote about it....never have trusted him on this issue...

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Response to Gloria (Reply #146)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 03:44 PM

147. And for campaigning with rabid homophobes too.

Religious bigots usually all agree on one thing: women's and lgbt rights.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #147)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 12:02 PM

189. You should go to my blog and search

for Obama on preachers, Matthew, justice dept. all the deals he was making, including the big religious media people....UGH

Never gung ho on this guy from the start.....

Just google InsightAnalytical and you'll see a treasure trove of crap on Obama behind the scenes as
he was trying to get elected...Hence, the PUMAs...

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:54 PM

26. ‘Abortion Is Always Wrong’?

False.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:58 PM

30. OH. EM. GEEE!! Roman Catholic espouses Roman Catholic beliefs! Alert the MEDIA!

Harry Reid has the same POV. He doesn't foist it on others, though.

He can parse, and he does.

Not sure why people are excited or annoyed by this--it's not news.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:04 AM

32. he's allowed to have his own personal opinion if he's not legislating it, but I'm not sure how it is

a helpful contribution to the conversation while womens' reproductive rights are under attack by people who would shame and blame them.

But Biden has a lot to answer for, if he's running. If his statements around his historical support of things like the drug war or the bankruptcy bill are anything like this, I predict practically zero enthusiasm for him in the primaries.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:05 AM

33. Life doesn't begin at conception

Both the egg and sperm are in fact, human life. Ascribing some kind of completely arbitrary metaphysical properties to human tissue at the point of conception is nothing more than hocus pocus nonsense.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #33)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:13 AM

39. Exactly.

Life began somewhere around 4 billion years ago, most likely.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:10 AM

36. Trying to have it both ways.

He could have phrased it differently. Made him look like a wuss. Disappointing.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:12 AM

38. Biden on abortion:

Allow women to choose, but no federal funding

I remember vividly the first time, in 1973, I had to go to the floor to vote on abortion. A fellow Senator asked how I would vote. “My position is that I am personally opposed to abortion, but I don’t think I have a right to impose my few on the rest of society. I’ve thought a lot about it, and my position probably doesn’t please anyone. I think the government should stay out completely. I will not vote to overturn the Court’s decision. I will not vote to curtail a woman’s right to choose abortion. But I will also not vote to use federal funds to fund abortion.“

***

No public funding for abortion; it imposes a view

Q: Are you still opposed to public funding for abortion?

A: I still am opposed to public funding for abortion. It goes to the question of whether or not you’re going to impose a view to support something that is not a guaranteed right but an affirmative action to promote.

Source: Meet the Press: 2007 “Meet the Candidates” series , Apr 29, 2007

***

Supports partial-birth abortion ban, but not undoing Roe

Q: You supported the ban on partial-birth abortions or late-term abortions.

A: I did and I do.


***

Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions.

This legislation, if enacted, would ban the abortion procedure in which the physician partially delivers the fetus before completing the abortion. [A NO vote supports abortion rights].

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Joe_Biden_Abortion.htm



He's mixed choice, and that's a deal breaker for me.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #38)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:18 AM

40. That's not a strong pro-choice stance; I would NOT trust him to protect women's lives

In choosing future Supreme Court justices or vetoing say, a 20-week abortion ban, waiting periods, etc.

Hillary or Bernie are much better choices if you care about making sure women's lives, health, safety, and choices are protected.

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Response to Liberty Belle (Reply #40)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:21 AM

43. Agreed. He voted to ban late term abortions.

His mixed choice record tells me he would probably allow his beliefs to influence his decisions in the future.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #43)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:33 AM

47. Bill Moyers has a great discussion on the effect of the Hyde Amendment on poor women

Here is an excerpt and a link to the full article:

1. The law’s impact is limited almost entirely to poor women. The late Henry Hyde (R-IL), the conservative congressman who first proposed the amendment, acknowledged this reality during a Medicaid funding debate in 1977, when he told his colleagues:

“I certainly would like to prevent, if I could legally, anybody having an abortion: a rich woman, a middle-class woman or a poor woman. Unfortunately, the only vehicle available is the… Medicaid bill.”

2. About 42 percent of women who have abortions live below the poverty line. The unintended pregnancy rate among poor women is five times the rates for higher-income women, as is the abortion rate. One reported reason for the discrepancy is poor women’s limited access to contraception.

3. By restricting Medicaid funding for abortion, one in four low-income women who would like to obtain abortions are instead forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. Since the Hyde Amendment was enacted more than 35 years ago, over one million women have been unable to afford abortions.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #47)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:39 AM

49. Abortion is a necessary legal medical procedure.

It should be federally funded like any other necessary, legal medical procedure.

Depriving poor women of their reproductive choices is illiberal, anti-choice and imo despicable.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #49)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:41 AM

50. Agreed

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #49)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:25 AM

82. I do not know how many more years...

...we have to debate this, but I am glad you are in here defending health equity and reproductive rights. "Life begins..." It doesn't matter. Its a moot point. Worse, that framing is devious politics masquerading as morality when it is mouthed by a politician speaking from their role in any venue. It's a woman's body, its her decision, and it should be available to all if available to any...without judgement or even freaking comment. Nothing. else. matters.

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Response to Fairgo (Reply #82)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:27 AM

83. Thank you, you said it much better than I could.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #38)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:19 AM

42. The National Right to Life Committee has a link to a document showing Biden voting to overturn Roe v

Wade.

Is this not correct?

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #42)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:27 AM

44. Yes, he voted for the Human Life Federalism Amendment


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #44)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:45 AM

52. Unlike Hillary who has always been pro choice and will protect a woman's right to chose.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Reply #52)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:45 AM

53. Hillary supported a ban on late term abortions too.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #53)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:55 AM

60. Still, Clinton is rated 100% by NARAL and Biden is rated 36% by NARAL (I'm a Sanders supporter so

I'm not necessarily the person to defend Clinton's record, but she's certainly better than Biden on reproductive rights.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #60)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:56 AM

61. I agree she is better than Biden, a lot better.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:19 AM

41. To sum this up:

Our OP "cited" a National Review article that deceptively edited the comments Biden made in this interview:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B64aMhgtMmKyRDFsb1k5R0NEb0U&usp=sharing

The first link on that page is the PDF. Watch the interview at the second link - the discussion of abortion starts at 13:26.

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #41)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:30 PM

129. So Biden lied about voting for an amendment to overturn Roe?

http://www.nrlc.org/archive/ObamaAbortionAgenda/BidenProofVoteForHatchAmendToOverturnRoe.pdf

Or are you going to claim national right to life is lying?

How about his repeated votes for the Hyde amendment? And repeated statements supporting the Hyde amendment? Can't have any federal money going to those icky sluts for their abortions.

Yeah, it's all about National Review. There are zero other sources on the planet. And history started when that article was published.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #129)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:11 PM

135. In this interview?

To the best of my knowledge, the subject was never broached.

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #135)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:36 PM

136. Your fundamental claim is that National Review is lying about Biden's record and beliefs

because they are such an untrustworthy source.

He actually has a record. That one interview is not the entirety of his history.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #136)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:44 PM

138. Thank you again, jeff.

The attempt to dismiss criticism from women who are losing the battle for reproductive rights is pathetic.

There is a war on women, DUers either need to get on board with those of us who are fighting for our lives or get out of the way.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #138)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:50 PM

140. It's one of the subjects that really, really pisses me off

even though I have a Y chromosome.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #140)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:54 PM

141. And I appreciate you and every other one of our other allies who fight alongside us.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #138)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:20 PM

165. Are you suggesting that I'm doing that?

Well?

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #136)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:30 PM

142. My "fundamental claim"...

is that National Review, notorious for their right-wing prevarications, edited Biden's remarks to suit an agenda - as evidenced specifically by the video.

That they were the only source at the time this OP was posted is only indicative of the seminal poster's rush to attack.

Now, with the passage of some time, a few other outlets have picked up this bombshell. This might have been a better source, starting with the title:

Biden: Abortion ‘always wrong’ in Catholic doctrine

The few quotes are more complete, while still lacking the nuance of his comments.

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #142)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:33 PM

143. They were not the only source at the time this OP was posted.

They were the only source you bothered to look at.

The few quotes are more complete, while still lacking the nuance of his comments.

Feel free to explain the nuance in his vote to amend the Constitution to overrule Roe.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #143)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:16 PM

161. NRO was the only source I saw at the time.

If there were other (better) sources, then the seminal poster's use of NRO is even more despicable.

Feel free to explain the nuance in his vote to amend the Constitution to overrule Roe.

There was no discussion of that in the interview. Start a thread about it and, if it's interesting, perhaps I'll participate.

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #161)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:38 PM

186. Better sources than his own words?

Really?

How about these anti-abortion folks bitching about him not voting their way a few times?

But he also said he thought Roe v. Wade had gone too far — and in 1982, as a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, he voted for a constitutional amendment to overturn Roe v. Wade. An objective examination of Biden’s record in the Senate (1973 through 2008) reveals him to be a long way from Barack Obama. On many key pro-life issues, including limits on late abortion and federal funding of abortion, Biden voted for legislation that is consistent with the votes cast by Paul Ryan — and in stark contrast with the extreme pro-abortion positions taken by Obama both as a legislator and as president.

For example, throughout his Senate career Biden voted for the Hyde Amendment, prohibiting most federal funding of abortion. Indeed, Biden explicitly advocated that the Hyde Amendment should contain an exception only to save the life of the mother, and he voted repeatedly against adding exceptions for rape and incest to the amendment. Biden also consistently voted for the federal ban on partial-birth abortions. He expressed concern that the so-called “Freedom of Choice Act” would go too far in overturning state abortion limitations.


Congress.gov is apparently down right now, but here's the roll call on the amendment to overturn Roe.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/97th-congress/senate-joint-resolution/110

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:27 AM

45. Well, that is your run over before it began

 

Thanks for playing.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:50 AM

55. One non-dog-fearing person here! nt

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)


Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:04 AM

67. He is a man and does not understand the. Issues that can arise in pregnancy.

No way could I vote for someone so lacking in understanding and compassion for women and the biological and psychological realities that are sometimes faced un pregnancy. Pregnancy is far less dangerous today than it was in the past but it can be very dangerous for both mother and fetus or fetuses and our society does little to help women who are pregnant but unable to carry or care for a baby.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:30 AM

76. This is a deciding issue for me

Biden can believe what he likes. I know people who oppose abortion because they are catholic, they should not have an abortion if they feel that way.
His position wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't for the unrelenting attacks on legal abortion and the successful tactics to erode the availability of abortion we really can't give an inch on this issue.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:43 AM

77. You got this from the NATIONAL REVIEW?

And you believe that rag?

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Response to RandySF (Reply #77)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:52 PM

154. Lots of RW rags are being elevated to high status at DU...where else to gather the tripe?

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #154)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:33 PM

169. Are you denying he said that? Or signed the amendment to overturn Roe v Wade?

Do explain why we shouldn't be upset about this, Fred.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #169)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:35 PM

171. Aren't there some GOP candidates you could attack instead? There are a few around if one pays

attention to what is important to the Democratic Party, concentrating on the enemy and not the allies.

If.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #171)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:36 PM

172. No, I'm fine with calling out fake allies who think Biden's votes are acceptable. Thanks.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #172)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:37 PM

173. No one doubts your sincerity! It is just the aim that seems to be all in one direction.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #173)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:38 PM

174. Oh I'm aiming at the right people.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #174)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:39 PM

175. Aiming only at Democratic Party candidates...like I said, no one doubts the sincerity.

Kudos for honesty, beam me up!

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #175)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:41 PM

176. I'm talking about you and others who lecture women on what we should be outraged about.

Because hey, it's not like YOUR life is on the line with the legislation Biden signed.

Amirite, Fred?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #176)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:43 PM

177. Now the twist to unrelated personal accusations? It is a familiar pattern we all notice.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #177)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:44 PM

179. And women notice who is dismissing their concerns on DU.

Like I said, my aim is just fine, Fred.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #179)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:45 PM

181. My work here is done.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #181)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:46 PM

182. Yes, it is. Thanks for helping out!

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:44 AM

78. as long as he's 100% pro choice

His personal opinion about abortion is irrelevant.

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #78)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:25 AM

97. But Biden is far from 100% pro-choice so his opinion does seem to affect his voting on reproductive

rights.

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #78)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:03 AM

111. He isn't. His record has several anti-choice votes. (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #111)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:44 PM

178. Well in that case I have a very big problem with him

Not that I was ever enthusiastic about him in the first place

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:48 AM

79. About the National Review

National Review (N.R.) is a semimonthly magazine founded by author William F. Buckley, Jr., in 1955 and based in New York City. It describes itself as "America's most widely read and influential magazine and web site for conservative news, commentary, and opinion."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Review

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Response to RandySF (Reply #79)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:41 PM

137. Because Biden doesn't have a record beyond this one story.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:00 AM

80. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

 

On Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:46 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Joe Biden: ‘Abortion Is Always Wrong’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251614713

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

The OP cites a deceptively edited article from the National Review, a right wing publication of the Heritage Foundation.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:53 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Honesty is the best policy, please leave it alone
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If there's a list of forbidden links at DU, admin will post them. Until then, I'm not going to play Joe McCarthy for your benefit.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Since the National Review links back to the transcript of the original interview and Biden seems to have actually said this Isay let it stay. Any one really interested can follow the links to the original. Not happy to give NR the clicks but it is what it is.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: National Review? I hope this OP gets removed for posting from such a source.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If someone cites an RW publication, DUers should refute it, not hide it. That's the collision of truth with error. Are we so afraid of these ogres at the NR that we hide their reactionary views from each other's eyes? Are we afraid we can't refute them? That's disgraceful.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to Lychee2 (Reply #80)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:21 AM

119. FTR: That was not my alert.

Glad to see someone is paying attention, though.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:20 AM

81. guess he is not running for president afterall

There is little chance a democrat can live that one down. Every democrat I know is prochoice so Joe must of decided not to run or maybe he has the ability to just be him self while still possibly running for president. I think we will find out within the week

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 03:35 AM

85. I'm not especially concerned about what he thinks if "right" or "wrong."

I'm more interested in what he advocates to do, and why. Here, my understanding is that he supports access to abortion. I'm fine with that.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #85)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:06 AM

112. Except he doesn't.

He's got several anti-choice votes on his record. Most notably, he's repeatedly voted and stated that he does not want federal funds to pay for abortion.

"Access" includes being able to pay for it.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 04:06 AM

86. I respect him for standing up for SSM, but shaming women like this is unacceptable.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]I would expect this type of patronizing and utterly chauvinistic view from a republican, not a liberal politician.

He needs to sit down, educate himself on the issue, and seriously reconsider his position.[/font]

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:30 AM

89. He's saying he would never impose his personal beliefs on other people. I have no patience for

pro-life people, but I have no argument with Joe here. He's agreeing to keep his beliefs out of my uterus, so there is nothing more I need from him.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #89)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:40 AM

90. Except he has only a 36% rating from NARAL, he has repeatedly voted for the Hyde Amendment, he voted

for the Human Life Federalism Amendment to repeal Roe v. Wade.

It seems an awful lot like he is imposing his belief on other people.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #90)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:04 AM

100. +1

Apparently it's okay when Joe does it because he's got a d after his name.

Can you imagine the outrage if Bernie had cast those votes?

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Reply #90)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 12:37 PM

190. I never knew this. I took him at his word about not imposing his beliefs, but it seems that his

record contradicts his assertion.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #89)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:06 AM

113. And he has a history of imposing his personal beliefs on other people.

He's repeatedly voted and spoken for banning federal funding for abortion.

That is imposing his personal beliefs.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:58 AM

92. You're wrong, Joe (nt)

 

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 08:04 AM

93. we just spent two days

piling on ben carson because he tried to link a religious view with a public office and said they could not be kept apart, which most here (rightly so imo) said was bullshit

joe has said this is his personal religious conviction. if he keeps it there and does not bring it into public policy, isn't this the perfect refutation of ben carson's bigotry?

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 08:08 AM

94. I have a real problem with

the idea that anyone, believers or unbelievers, are supposed to FEAR "God."

If I were a Christian following Christ, the message would not be to fear, or to judge, but to love.

I know that "fearing god" is an old testament theme. It's been used to rope the faithful into line, kind of like some people do in general elections when their corporate nominee does not inspire the masses...invoking that fear of the "other" to keep people in line.

It's also used like a parent threatening kids with punishment for bad behavior.

I don't respond well to those kinds of threats; I never have, which is something that people indoctrinated into that kind of "fear authority, and look to that authority to protect you from the other evil" kind of mindset never "get."

So there is an instant disconnect with Biden's words about "God-fearing" people. I'll damn well deny that label.

Of course, as a woman, I also don't need him to be making any judgments about my body and its reproductive capabilities. Thankfully, he also said that he's "not prepared to impose doctrine" on the rest of the country. Hopefully, that doesn't mean that someday he will be prepared.





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Response to LWolf (Reply #94)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:42 AM

98. I am of the opinion all religion is fear based don't do x or be punished by deity

 

Fear is what keeps people in line and fear closes ones mind. Fear is why they also do good. Do y and please deity win a prize.









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Response to YabaDabaNoDinoNo (Reply #98)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 08:46 AM

188. That's not all religion,

but it sure is the foundation of many.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 08:22 AM

96. I just love it when wombless men tell women with wombs

What's right or wrong to do with that womb. I wouldn't even begin to think I had any right to tell another human being what they can or can't do to/with their own body. It's offensive when men voice an opinion on abortion - UNLESS IT'S THEIR WIFE/GIRLFRIEND /SIGNIFICANT OTHER, they may have input, but it's still the woman's CHOICE.

Otherwise, it's none if your effing business what other women do with their bodies and to say flat out "abortion is ALWAYS WRONG" is just fucked up. Rape? Incest? Stillborn baby? Mother's life is at risk? Can't afford it? Doesn't want to have a baby? ALWAYS WRONG? My ass!

Do women go around giving opinions about what men should or shouldn't do with their reproductive organs? NO! We deserve the same respect. Thank you very much.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:08 AM

102. Mr Biden

that issue is Not yours to decide. It's mine. If you believe Abortion is Always Wrong, then.....might I suggest that You personal abstain from ever having that procedure performed on you. That is exercising CHOICE
Biden joins the attack on Women's Rights?

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:13 AM

104. This is why he sometimes gets in trouble because he speaks before he thinks.

There is a difference between the proverbial guy at the bar who opines on everything and POTUS.

I believe in a true "culture of life." I too oppose abortion, euthanasaia, the death penalty, and unjust war. However I realize we live in a pluralistic society where the "individual is sovereign over his own mind, body, and soul " and decisions on what to do with it should be beyond the reach of the state.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #104)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:58 PM

158. He didn't speak before he thought

 

This statement reflects his beliefs, at least based on his record. And while I don't agree -- abortion is often wrong, but not always -- Biden hasn't tried to impose his belief on others, unlike Huckabee and his ilk.

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Response to TeddyR (Reply #158)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:19 PM

163. "Biden hasn't tried to impose his belief on others"

Yes he has, he voted to overturn Roe v Wade, ban federal funding for abortions and late term abortions.

He IS imposing his belief on me.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:19 AM

107. Clinton is in the "safe, legal, and rare" camp, and Bernie believes women

have the absolute, unquestionable right to have control over their own body.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:11 AM

114. Preaching to the Papal chior that is just in love with the Pope right now.

 

Sure sign that one camp is about economic justice, equality for the rest be damned. I hate the praise being heaped on the Pope as he spreads hate around the world that will lead to beatings, death, and the hatred of great people. Hundreds of ops on how bad Hillary is. Dozens on the greatness of the Pope. There was even a recent post here about how Hillary evolved and it was done in a way to trash her. Same poster is praising the Pope. Really fucked up.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #114)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:22 AM

120. You think Sanders supporters are the only ones praising the pope?

Sure sign that one camp is about economic justice, equality for the rest be damned.


Way to cherry pick one group of people to broad brush.

One camp is about equality for all, the other supports a candidate who just came around to that way of thinking in 2013.





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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #120)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:31 AM

121. "You think Sanders supporters are the only ones praising the pope?"

 

As usual, you start your discussion with something I never said. Really a poor tactic you have used with me time and time again. If you have to make a dishonest claim as to what others are saying in order to make your point, you might want to rethink your point. It is clear you answered without reading. That is standard for your replies to me. Have a wonderful day.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #121)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:38 AM

122. Your words: "Sure sign that one camp is about economic justice, equality for the rest be damned."

You're the one making a dishonest claim, NCTraveler and it's not the first time you've used this "poor tactic" to attack Bernie's supporters.





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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #122)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:41 AM

123. Thank you for showing the quote that proves your claim had no merit. I appreciate it. nt.

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #123)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:42 AM

124. Thank you for providing a quote showing how some will say anything to smear Bernie's supporters.

Because we're all ONLY concerned with economic justice, amirite?


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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:42 AM

125. I don't quite understand why they go in those terms.

To me, abortion is always a wedge issue that no one wins on except Republicans by just riling people up since they have nothing else to recommend them for.

Stating that, my stance has always been that I would love for abortion to not happen(everybody would want to avoid it to begin with), but I understand that it does.
Where, abortion is a symptom of the problem rather than an actual problem, and anti-choicers don't seem to get that.

To lessen the instances of such a thing touches many many issues that Republicans just hurt.
-Medical Care
-Cost of Living
-Cost of the Baby
-Pre-natal and Post-natal care
-Broken families
-General Instability in people's lives
-Raising a child alone, cost and time, so consider day care

In ALL of those factors, Republicans hurt families, and in fact I will blame there for any sort of rise in abortions because they create insecurity and their actions cause a rise in hardship on all the factors that would directly increase the probability of an abortion.

Joe Biden is not always the sharpest speaker, but in essence, I get where he is coming from.

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Response to Xyzse (Reply #125)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:49 PM

139. I would love for abortion to happen

I'm really tired of arguments that more-or-less say "abortion is icky" and then try to change to another topic.

I want every woman who wants to get an abortion to get one. Heck, I'd like them to hand out a lovely gift basket after each one.

I care about abortion and I care about proper medical care that includes contraception. There is no point in trying to couch this in "avoid abortion" language. That is just continuing the framing that abortion is a terrible thing. And that framing is the largest success of the anti-abortion zealots.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #139)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:45 PM

144. And I believe you took what I said wrong as well.

I know it happens, and I am glad the possibility of it happening and that it is safe and legal is great. I am happy about that. What I was saying is that I would love for it not to have to happen. I know I did not quite phrase it that way, but it is definitely hard to phrase.

What it means is, that I would love to limit the factors that come to having that decision. Meaning, if they actually care about pre and post natal care a bit more, then people have more options. If they are secure and stable, and have the facilities to take care of children, perhaps more would be influenced to keep the child rather than having an abortion.

I can see your point in the framing of the language, however, please note that many could not get to that point, so you have to find points which they might actually understand. Because not all can get to that easily, so you have to mention the factors that put a person to that choice. Then explain how Republicans are actually the ones causing those factors to become worse.

That is the only way I was able to get someone to understand why Republicans are actually worse in regards to the issue of abortion rather than Democrats. I do try to work on the common ground, and I think about the factors that influence the choice. I am very happy there is a choice, and would never wish to limit that. I work on trying to make them understand why the people they are supporting is actually worse for their issue than those who are pro-choice.

I hope I clarified things a bit better.

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Response to Xyzse (Reply #144)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 03:10 PM

145. When you step from "glad it can happen" to "love for it not to happen"

then that is precisely the framing I am complaining about.

That step inherently defines abortion as "bad". Which invites attacks on abortion - after all, most "bad" things get regulated in our country.

Access to contraception is good regardless of abortion. And abortion for women who want it is good regardless of access to contraception. You don't need to connect the two.

however, please note that many could not get to that point, so you have to find points which they might actually understand. Because not all can get to that easily, so you have to mention the factors that put a person to that choice.

No, we really don't.

People resort to that framing because almost no one has been pushing "access to abortion is good" by itself. Instead, people keep trying to use contraception access almost as an excuse for supporting abortion.

We don't have to keep doing that. We do not have to accept the existing framing. Yes, it will not instantly work on all voters. But someone has to start pushing the line in the other direction, or it will continue to slide towards anti-abortion.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #145)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 03:51 PM

148. Understood.

Like I mentioned, we work on different people.
I can appreciate your position, but I have found that I have swayed some to look at things a bit differently, which is important to me. Particularly as I talk to those who are religious.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:58 PM

159. i don't care if he thinks that

It would only be a problem if he tried to impose that belief on others

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Response to Orangepeel (Reply #159)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:18 PM

162. It is a problem because he has voted to overturn Roe v Wade.

And he supported other anti-choice legislation too.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #162)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:29 PM

184. How and when did he vote to overturn a SCOTUS decision?

I'm not defending Biden. I'm genuinely curious because I don't know how that would work.

The 75% NARAL rating in 2007 is disconcerting. I'd like to know what that's about.

http://votesmart.org/candidate/evaluations/53279/joe-biden-jr/75#.VgNOl8T3aK0

Abortion and Reproductive
2008 Planned Parenthood Action Fund - Positions 100%
2007-2008 National Organization for Women - Positions 100%
2007 NARAL Pro-Choice America - Positions 75%
2007 Population Connection - Positions on Population Stabilization 100%
2006 NARAL Pro-Choice America - Positions 100%
2006 Planned Parenthood Action Fund - Positions 100%
2006 Population Connection - Positions 100%
2005-2006 National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Association - Positions 93%
2005-2006 National Organization for Women - Positions 91%
2005-2006 Population Action International - Positions on Reproductive Health 100%
2005 NARAL Pro-Choice America - Positions 100%
2005 National Organization for Women - Positions 100%
2005 Population Connection - Positions 100%
2005 The Population Institute - Positions 100%
2004 NARAL Pro-Choice America - Positions 100%
2003-2004 Population Action International - Positions 100%

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:21 PM

166. This is very troubling.

There are medical problems that render a pregnant woman a living and breathing coffin for a child that will come into the world unable to survive on its own. I can't imagine carrying a child for months on end knowing the end result will be a funeral and not a birthday party. At least he is reasonable enough not to insist everyone believe as he does . . . unlike a Republican.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:34 PM

170. It is none of his business.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:45 PM

180. I hate abortion

Me, my personal feelings, "personal" as in, my business only, not to be imposed on anyone else or delegated to the state to control, limit or impede anyone,s access to the "personal" care of someones health and well being.

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Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 12:45 PM

191. Fine with me as long as he defends the legal right of choice

His personal views are irrelevant.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #191)

Sat Sep 26, 2015, 09:50 AM

192. I agree his personal views are irrelevant if they don't affect his votes, but his Hyde Amendment

votes and his other positions which have resulted in his low NARAL rating whow that his personal views DO affect his votes.

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