Saw this crap on Facebook and posted this response.

[WonderGrunion]

My Response:

Snoopy's relies on a federal interstate transportation system to both deliver food to serve and customers to sell to. Snoopy's relies on the federal Food and Drug Agency to insure he is provided with safe food to serve his clients so he doesn't lose his company in a lawsuit by poisoning them. Snoopy's relies on a federally funded police department to insure his business isn't pillaged by lawless ruffians. Snoopy's relies on federally paid teachers to have given him the education to start a business. Snoopy's relies on federally insured banks to make sure his money is safe and insured against loss so a crooked banker can't just move his profits overseas and lose everything. President Obama's point was that "No one does it on their own." Snoopy's had help and a lot of help from the federal government. He would never be able to start his business in "small-government" nations like Greece or Somalia. He relies on the advantages that come with being born in a nation that is bound and protected by federal laws and enforcement to make that happen.

Saw it because of a right wing family member. Make sure this crap doesn't go unanswered.

[DesertRat]

1. Great response

[RedStateLiberal]

2. Well done!

I hope at least some of that sinks in. My right wing family members don't care much for facts and logic. Their opinions seem to be based on preconceived ideas, assumptions, selfishness, and emotions.

I wish you luck!

[progress2k12nbynd]

3. I guess we should first see if Snoopy's is paying taxes and how much...

If I owned Snoopy's and I've been paying 30-40% for a decade, I probably don't want to be lectured that I owe for some road that was built 20 years ago. no private citizen wants that lecture either.

[ThePhilosopher04]

5. Roads require constant maintenance ...

not to mention if the road on which his business is located, and roads leading to it, were not built in the first place, he'd have a pretty tough time selling hot dogs.

[JohnnyRingo]

6. I'd want to see where he got his start-up money.

If he grew up poor and delivered newspapers for 30 years to save up enough for a down payment on a private loan, then he did build it himself. A low interest government loan would be taboo for such a proud self made man, as would a tax abatement that local residents would have to cover.

If, on the other hand, he inherited money from his parents, or they gave/loaned him the cash for the business (or for college to learn how to manage it), he had help. More than my kids ever saw.

What are the odds this man started with absolutely nothing, and nurtured a food business using only his wiles and two calloused hands?

[NBachers]

10. Is Snoopy's located in an area where snow falls in the winter? Does Snoopy's plow the public roads?

If so, those roads weren't last snowplowed 20 years ago.

How is the lot Snoopy's is on surveyed and recorded?

Did Snoopy's dig their own well to supply the water?

Did Snoopy's engineer their own private waste disposal system?

Has Snoopy's constructed their own independent rugged individualist power grid?

Does Snoopy's use natural gas? Do they mine and refine their own gas, or get it from a regulated pipeline?

And so on . . .

And so on . . .

And so on . . .

[Riftaxe]

13. just to play devil's advocate

Would snoopy's be in existence without the guy who started it?

while it is popular on this forum to shit on people who work for themselves, or start a small business, i suspect they have not a clue as to the work required.

[lolly]

16. If you're claiming you did something without any help

The burden is on you to respond to the evidence that you did, indeed, have help.

Nobody--not Obama, not the OP--is claiming that piles of tax money sit around and magically transform into profitable business.

The point is that even with a great business idea and lots of hard work, few people succeed in business without any help from government services.

[Riftaxe]

18. if your claiming that roads, infrastructure would not exist

if a small business was not in existence, then the proof is on you.

Most of us would just relegate that to the perks of a civilized society.

Hence, as is the usual, prove that infrastructure would not exist if some poor slob did not put 20 hours a day, 7 days a week just to create his own 1 man shop.

[Blanks]

58. The perks of a civilized society?

That's the point here. When one takes advantage of the 'perks of a civilized society'; they didn't build that.

The proof that the infrastructure wouldn't exist is that it doesn't exist in 'uncivilized societies'. Somalia always comes to mind. Work your ass off; your profits are intercepted by warlords. Law enforcement is important also.

I'm sure there are a lot of people in 3rd world countries putting in long hours, and in no instance do paved roads spring into existence. If you've got a business on a dirt road that you've constructed; it won't be able to compete with the businesses that folks don't have to leave the hard surface to frequent.

You either don't have a point, or you're not effectively communicating it. It looks like option one to me.

[progress2k12nbynd]

37. I don't think most people would deny that…

However, this new meme people have that today's businesses have never paid any taxes and all of a sudden they owe millions in back taxes for infrastructure built for all of us decades ago is ridiculous.

In fact, aren't roads, etc. being paid for by personal taxes like gas taxes by every one, including business owners?

[nineteen50]

46. I wonder

if all business tax write offs were cancelled could the business survive?

[jeff47]

96. Um...no. That's not the new meme

That's the new right-wing falsehood.

They have a lot of trouble actually having a coherent argument, so they make up stuff about the left that's easy to argue against.

Good job repeating the message. Perhaps next time you could use that goo between your ears before blindly repeating what Fox tells you?

[Confusious]

106. Yes gas taxes pay for roads

But so do registration fees, which are based upon the value of the vehicle, not the weight, which tears up the road the most.

So the middle class is again subsidizing the businesses.

[RedStateLiberal]

19. Nobody is saying it would exist without him.

Obama was saying it exists because of him and government investment paid for by taxes from everybody.

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

He was stating the obvious because Republicans don't want the rich to pay their fair share of taxes. They don't want to invest in infrastructure or any stimulus. They think government should just get out of the way.

What Obama was really saying when they took his quote out of context is as important as why he was saying it.

[Riftaxe]

22. If you start your own business, the one thing that is guaranteed

is that you are going to be screwed by some strange law that was passed with what was probably good intentions, even though it does not apply to your own business.

Legislators exist to put their names on laws, not to occasionally revise them.

Hence, we are stuck with a legal code that Hammurabi would take a glance at and pass out in disbelief.

[RedStateLiberal]

23. Not always.

I've owned and operated my own small business for over a decade and that hasn't happened to me yet. It has come close to that with anti-net neutrality bills which, thankfully, have not passed.

My business is web based so, obviously, it wouldn't exist without my initiative AND the Internet - which was created by the government.

When it comes to the tax code, I'll agree with you - it is a mess and overly complicated and really only benefits those with enough money to hire a bunch of lawyers.

The government is not all good or all bad, it's both. Just like most issues there are always shades of grey.

The problem with Repubs is they want to pretend it's all bad while simultaneously trying to make people believe that Dems think it's all good. I believe it does more good than bad and it's all about shared responsibility and that's what makes our system great and keeps the American dream alive. That dream is dying due to Republican insistence that the government is the problem - and you know who came up with that stupid idea.

[baldguy]

34. The term you're looking for is "due diligence"

If the only reason your business fails is because you neglect to follow some law that you didn't know about - WELL, THAT'S JUST TOO FUCKING BAD, YOU CRYBABY! You SHOULD go out of business. If you didn't tell your investors, the you SHOULD be sued & held liable for their losses.

Stop blaming other people for your problems. Those "strange laws" that narrow-minded conservatives are always seem to be railing against are those that protect consumers from being cheated, protect employees from being treated unfairly, and protect the public from being injured. Every other business seems to be able to adhere to these laws without any difficulty, why can't you?

[dmr]

45. +1

[mac56]

56. + 2

[nineteen50]

47. There is always a reason for regulation

someone took unfair advantage or someone paid for legislation to protect their interests they don't just fall from the sky.

[Ikonoklast]

61. I own and run my own business. Hasn't happened to me, either.

But that is a typical libertarian or right-wing meme about the government being out to screw you.

If you refuse to operate within the legal parameters set by our society, then, yes, the government will come down on your business, as it should.

Every small business owner I know that tried to buck governmental regulations by cutting corners illegally deserved what they got.

And then they had the brass to blame "teh gubbamint" for their business failing.

As a business owner it is within your responsibility to know and follow what laws and regulations pertain to your particular area of operations.

If you cannot or will not educate yourself about which government regulations are germaine to your business, then you deserve what happens to you because you didn't do your due diligance.

[Doremus]

70. Count me among those who own a small business & haven't experienced any of these "strange laws"

of which you speak. Not in over 15 years of business ownership.

But if it makes you feel better to think they're out there waiting to get you, have at it.

[treestar]

76. How is anyone screwed by these laws?

Snoopy is able to keep the business going. Why shouldn't he have to comply with the laws? He expects everyone else to do so, to be sure.

[TahitiNut]

94. What a gawdawful pile of sophomoric elephant manure.

Your entire thesis hinges on the unstated assumption that only you are disadvantaged by the civil infrastructure (both legislated and tangible) -- "unstated" because it clearly sounds so damned stupid when it's actually spelled out. What you fail to present are the impacts, both advantageous and disadvantageous, to your ability to compete in the market as it is in comparison to some mythic "ideal" that you fail to even begin to describe. It's the dystopian Ayn Rand "vision" that seems to assume that other competitors in the food chain won't eat you for lunch without even a burp. So go ahead and covet the illusion that some "free market fairy" will provide highways, drinkable water, clean sewage disposal, intellectual property protections, protection from burglars and arsonists, and the nearly countless services you seem to think are part of some natural state of the universe ... but, by all means, don't consider how you might get totally and completely screwed and even denied access to such services because you just don't occupy that nice comfortable spot at the top of the food chain.

The only attitude I can imagine that chafes under paying for our civil infrastructure is one that would be willing to kill, steal, and destroy to achieve "success." Cheats ... like the MittWit.

[NBachers]

33. I ran my own car detail shop in Miami for 9 years; did my own building maintenance business

in San Francisco for years. I know about working every day 'till late late late, getting the phone calls that drag me out of the bed in the middle of the night.

[bvar22]

39. If not "Snoopy's", then something else.

Wherever there are hungry people,
there are others who will feed them.... for a price.
ALWAYS.

Snoopy's owner merely took advantage of an existing demand.
It would be righteous to claim that Snoopy's owner is in debt to all those hungry people willing to pay his price.
He wouldn't own a successful business without them.
They helped him, and continue to help him every day.

If his main product is Hot Dogs,
he would be even MORE successful if out tax laws favored The Poor instead of The Rich.

[progressivebydesign]

42. I'm a small biz owner and I find that so offensive. Since WHEN does DU "shit" on small biz people?

Really.. where the hell did THAT Come from???

Devil's advocate, you say? Hmmmm...

I AM a small business owner, and I DO know what it takes. Do you think that DUers are all on welfare??

[dmr]

48. Why would you insult DU with a bullshit statement like that?

Back it up if you can.

No Liberal I know would say this:

while it is popular on this forum to shit on people who work for themselves, or start a small business, i suspect they have not a clue as to the work required.

[bongbong]

51. LOL

> while it is popular on this forum to shit on people who work for themselves

WOW! What a huge fucking lie.

[abelenkpe]

55. The only one without a clue is yourself

generalizations like that don't reflect well

[livingonearth]

57. Nobody is saying Snoopy didn't work hard!

Snoopy is changing Obama's words. If you listen to the whole Roanoke speech, Obama clearly talks about both individual achievement and the "things we do together". How is it you think, in your words "it is popular on this forum to shit on people who work for themselves, or start a small business". You're not playing devil's advocate; you're just trying to put forth a false premise.

[loudsue]

67. I owned a business for years. You're a friggin' idiot.

There are a great many DUers, and liberals of all stripes, who are business owners. What you are suffering from is the rightwing illusion that liberals are "loosers" who are wanting to suck off the government tit. Welfare queens and kings. That is ignorance. Liberals are the ones who understand that it is SMALL BUSINESSES, not global corporate vampires, that are where all the real and good jobs are created.

[DeSwiss]

73. ''Would snoopy's be in existence without the guy who started it?''

Well, Devil's advocate, possibly. Might be another person who opens a place named Snoopy that looks just like his turned out. More importantly though, this guy wouldn't be in existence himself if the government hadn't (once again), engaged in a war before he was born so that his parents could survive long enough for his birth.

- Circular arguments are circular.....

[treestar]

75. Somebody would have started something

There was a market there. Snoopy was in the right place at the right time. Sure it's work, but he gets money for it. Yet he doesn't think he should pay any taxes on it. Start with the military, which right wingers claim so essential to our existence and freedom. He ought to be willing to pay for that. Then the schools. What if Snoopy had to teach his employees to read. It's not the 17th century any more.

Further, Snoopy had capital to start the business. He's lucky. He has a way to make money and live well in this society. But people who don't have that are supposed to create it out of thin air. He was lucky but does not want to help anyone else.

Oh and he probably expects the taxpayers to pay police to protect his place, too. Or is he going to be willing to hire a 24/7 security guard company?

[iamthebandfanman]

78. you "sick son of a bitch"..

Or atleast , thats what you called someone who smokes marijuana on another topic months ago...
and a murderer too if im not mistaken.

Get a grip buddy.

so tired of people letting these right wingers troll around here.

'play' devils advocate?

thatd imply you werent one

[rurallib]

81. I would take exception to your comment that this forum shits on small

business owners. As a matter of fact, I think most people have nothing but respect for small business owners here. Many are or have been small business owners, myself included.
What is objectionable is far right wing business owners thinking that they deserve some special privileges because they own a business.
I almost feel that an apology is in order for that comment.
Thank you.

[lumberjack_jeff]

84. In what sense are small businesspeople being shit upon by democrats?

Yes, assuming adequate customer demand exists, snoopy's would exist in a different name, with a different guy having started it.

The business is 100% dependent on customers, and if person "A" doesn't start a business to fill that need, someone else will. The customers will still get fed, regardless.

And yes, I'm self employed.

[lolly]

17. I'm a private citizen

And I'm tired of hearing arrogant folks who have benefited from my taxes lecturing all of us about how they shouldn't have to pay the same fair share the rest of us do.

[Dokkie]

68. Dont you see

its also his taxes. They pay gas tax, sales tax, property taxes, incomes taxes and all the taxes that is used to the building and maintaining of the said infrastructure. In effect, he is part owner of the puplic roads, FDA etc etc.

My guess is that the property where Snoops stands on right now increased 10x fold after govt build that road to it and he paid for the increased cost. Cant you see that he or anyone else who owns a small business is not taking advantage of the puplic intrastruture but they are contributing to its expansion and maintainace.

So its not just "my" taxes but his taxes too

[jeff47]

97. So what?

The fact that he also pays taxes doesn't suddenly turn him into a Galtian superhero.

His business exists because we all create an environment in which it can exist. He now wants to stop paying for that. He got his, fuck the next guy starting his own business.

[Dokkie]

100. At what point is he

or can he even ever pay up for the environment setup by the public? mind you, he is also part of the public. If the answer is never then we have a problem. The social contract cannot be binding for life, he is probably in his 50s, so lets assume he has been working since he was 20yrs old, paying taxes for the roads, police, schools etc etc. I think after 30yrs, it is safe to say that he has paid more than his portion of the public utility provided to him.

The fact that he pays taxes makes him part owner of all the public infrastructure and that is what most people here on DU do not understand

[jeff47]

102. Actually, the social contract is binding for life.

Last edited Mon Jul 30, 2012, 10:39 AM - Edit history (1)

I think after 30yrs, it is safe to say that he has paid more than his portion of the public utility provided to him.

Because society disappears after 30 years?

Society continues for his entire life and beyond. He gains benefits for his entire life, and his kids lives, and their kids lives, and so on. One is never "done" paying for it because it's never "done" being purchased.

Much like paying an employee for 20 years doesn't mean you own that employee, or their house.

Society isn't a widget you purchase and then get to use from that point on.

The fact that he pays taxes makes him part owner of all the public infrastructure and that is what most people here on DU do not understand

No, we understand that quite well. What we're saying is that's utterly irrelevant to this debate.

[Confusious]

108. You're kidding right?

If you live in society, then you have to pay to help keep it up. Death and taxes.

The only way you can get around that is to move to a deserted island, or the middle of the jungle where there is no one else for miles around.

[Confusious]

107. So snoopy is the only guy on that road?

Yes, they do contribute. But so do we all, which is the point. He didn't build it "all by his lonesome, out on the prairie."

[Zoeisright]

44. The POINT is that NO business would exist without society AND the government.

How many successful businesses are in Somalia? That is a country in anarchy and there is NO WAY "Snoopy" would be able to make a nickel there. When these business owners whine about paying taxes, they should be called on it.

[WoodyM90]

92. There was once a man

who had a brilliant idea that would make him millions. And he had the money to start the business. But he never made it work as he lived on an island all by himself.

[WCGreen]

52. As an accountant, I can tell you no one pays that much of a tax burden...

Especially micro business that our friend at Snoopy's has going.

You do know that taxes are paid on the net profit for a tax entity. And after all those deductions he takes for operating the company, his tax burden is probably right where most middle class folks is, around 15% to 20%...

And that includes state and local property taxes.

[ThePhilosopher04]

4. You forgot to add ...

he's allowed to incorporate to free him from personal liability and has the option to declare bankruptcy once his customers decide to eat healthy and his investment goes bottom up.

[SlimJimmy]

7. I'm not so sure I could say federally funded police and teachers. That's a real stretch.

Nearly all police and teachers are locally funded through city and county taxes.

[SlimJimmy]

14. It was never designed to operate that way. The federal government

should not be in the business of supplementing local and state law enforcement or teachers. It's not sustainable.

[SlimJimmy]

26. +1 A really well thought out response. Thanks.

[nineteen50]

49. Government is the prize

that is why everyone is trying to by it. Government doesn't steal people steal.

[bhikkhu]

21. The point isn't by what means a government service is provided

its that it is a government service.

Education, the rule of law and law enforcement, transportation networks, power grids, water supply and sanitation systems, weights and measures, environmental quality, etc, etc, - all are systems generally managed by government.

For the most part, people everywhere have organized their societies this way (or been replaced or absorbed by societies organized in this way) because it works best, and allows people like the guy in the OP a good stable market in which his own efforts can flourish.

[SlimJimmy]

25. I get it, really I do. I think we all forget that businesses pay taxes to provide infrastructure

just like everyone else. I'm not quite following the logic in some of the threads I've seen here at DU. I think we all benefit from paying our taxes. Businesses as well as private citizens.

[SlimJimmy]

82. The small businesspersons I know, the mom and pops with less than ten employees, work hard, pay

their taxes, and try to provide for their employees. They work their asses off - many of them putting in 12-18 hour days, and in many cases for diminishing returns over the last six years or so. When they go home, they still think about their businesses, worry about payroll, and try to keep prices from rising, even though the cost of doing business keeps going up. Are these the assholes you are referring to? Because I've got to tell you, they aren't anything like you've just described.

[SlimJimmy]

89. You wrote five paragraphs on how evil they are. Give me a break.

[freshwest]

71. Really well stated, thanks.

[jeff47]

98. Actually, a huge portion of both LE and teacher funding comes from the Feds

Local taxes do not provide anywhere near 100% funding for teachers and police.

[SlimJimmy]

101. But it shouldn't. Federal dollars should not be paying for local police and fire departments.

That is absolutely unsustainable. And any one that is in favor of the feds paying for local emergency services hasn't thought it through.

[jeff47]

103. Considering that has been the case for more than 100 years...

Your arguments against sustainability seem non-persuasive without a lot more to back them up.

[SlimJimmy]

104. So, you are saying that the federal government has been paying the salaries of local fire and police

for over a hundred years? You can't be serious?

[jeff47]

105. No, I'm not.

Your claim: Teachers and police are paid from city and county taxes.
My point: Feds have been giving states a bunch of money over the last century to pay teachers and police. City and county pay waaaaaay less than 100% for teachers and police

You now: So you're saying local fire and police are paid 100% by feds?

Me, now: That's very dumb. I never claimed feds paid 100%. Yet you now claim I did. How 'bout you try and defend your argument instead of constructing strawmen?

[SlimJimmy]

109. No, the poster that I originally responded to said that. If you want to argue the point, ask him

about it. I merely pointed out that saying they are federally funded was quite a stretch - and it is.

Snoopy's relies on a federally funded police department to insure his business isn't pillaged by lawless ruffians. Snoopy's relies on federally paid teachers to have given him the education to start a business.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125161598#op

[jeff47]

111. Keep knocking down those strawmen

I'm sure you'll start looking good any time now.

First, I'm the poster you responded to. When you claimed I was saying police and teachers are 100% federally funded. Which again, is patently false and stupid.

Second, if a police department receives $1 in from the feds, they are federally funded. Because they received a dollar. Being "federally funded" does not mean 100% federally funded.

Third, are you arguing that the FBI, ATF and all the other federal police agencies have no effect on his business?

[SlimJimmy]

112. They are not federally funded in any appreciable way at all. Nice try to spin it. If you wanted to

be accurate in your OP, then you would have said federally supplemented. But you didn't, did you? Even that statement would have been a stretch. Nearly all local police departments are funded locally or through state grants. The best we can say is that the US attorney's office forfeiture program offers about 5% to local departments that qualify. Even the vaunted 100,000 police officers during the Clinton administration were only for a period of one year. Ask the Cleveland PD recruits how that worked out for them. As to the BATF, what the hell does that have to do with a guy selling hotdogs?

Talk about straw men.

Edited to add:

I wasn't originally responding to you, I was responding to the OP (which I just quoted) a few posts back. As a matter of fact, I told you that in my last response. Learn to read, please.

[freshwest]

8. Thanks a million. That was excellent, you covered it all!

[hfojvt]

11. Snoopy's apparently relied on

Charles Schulz to give his restaurant a name.

[n2doc]

59. +1 n/t

[Grantuspeace]

12. We have to challenge all this crap on Facebook and the internet.

I got something saying Obama was the first president in 60 years to not visit the D-Day Memorial on the anniversary on D-Day. Well, the memorial wasn't in existence (or officially recognized) until 2006.

[demwing]

15. Hey, I think I'll open a Snoopys Veggie Dogs down the street from this guy

I'm sure to leech some of his customers, just "accidentally"

What? It's a registered trademark through the Federal government?

Really...

Well hell with that, never mind then. I didn't know the guy had a friend in the government getting his back...

[Tunkamerica]

24. is that in nc? we have a snoopy's and that might be the side of the building

just looked it up and it is. they offer extremely cheap hotdogs right next to a strip of bars. the only reason they're in business is the public university right down the street.

[intheflow]

27. He'd be nowhere without his customers or his employees.

He also probably borrowed some money from family or a bank to start the venture up. They helped him realize his creation. Without them, he'd have no business.

[Dokkie]

72. And a bee would be nowhere without flowering plants

Dont you see that both the customer and business owner needs each other equally? No one is greater, if the restaurant goes away, the people will resort to making food at home and will be inconvinenced by the crappy home food. Its a symbiotic relationship, same govt have with tax payers so lets stop behaving as if govt is the important entity and tax payers taking advantage of what he paid for is the moochers feeding off govt

Then again every human(except theives and people getting free money) with money in their pocket provide some sort of service or product like the snoopy owner to have any money in pocket. So you can say that 99% of us will be nowhere without the customers that make use of the goods/services we provide.

Now can u see how silly that sounds?

[intheflow]

110. I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not.

[Coyotl]

28. Just what the world needs

another hot dog

[nxylas]

29. Greece is not a "small government nation"

Greeks on the whole do not buy into the libertarian agenda, rather it has been forced upon them by Goldman Sachs and the EU government. They are rioting in the streets against the 1%, not against "big government".

Can't argue with the rest of your post, though.

[CJCRANE]

30. Steve Webb didn't create the infrastructure

that supports his business. That was Obama's point (for any lurking Tea Partiers reading this).

Here's the full quote:

"There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."

"That" refers to the "roads and bridges" in the previous sentence. Again for Tea Partiers: notice the verb "build" which collocates with "roads and bridges".

As usual the Repubs are arguing with something that no one said.

[progressivebydesign]

41. someone needs to educate dumbass at Snoopy's what the "--" means.

What an ass that has now alienated 50% of his potential customers. I would never set foot in there.

[Fridays Child]

31. Bravo!

k/r

[hwmnbn]

32. BAM!! Excellent response...

filed away for future use.

[The Doctor.]

35. Your response is perfect. May we C+P it?

(I'm not always feeling ambitious enough to compose a response)

[WonderGrunion]

38. Please copy and paste

I want Facebook and the other social media deluged with truth to counter the GOP crap that is spread across it.

[jillan]

36. Did he make that sign too? And the letters that went on it? Did he teach himself to spell so he

could insult the President on a sign?

Wow - he is one special hot dog shop owner.

[progressivebydesign]

40. Wanna bet Snoopy's got an SBA loan at some point??

What a dumbass. Guess that he started the business with no bank loans for under 40% interest, no family help? How about the fact that they can't build a slaughter house next door?

I hate stupid people. The Peanut's heirs should sue him for copyright infringement.

[knitter4democracy]

79. I had the same thought.

It's almost impossible to get a business loan that isn't an SBA loan of some form.

[graywarrior]

43. This proves their utter stupidity not listening to an entire statement.

The can't read, they can't spell, they don't listen yet they think they know everything.

[bl968]

50. USDA not FDA

USDA does the meat inspections not the FDA.

[Plucketeer]

53. In other words

this is a result of getting ones "news" from FOX.

[patrice]

54. REALLY like your use of parallelism in the repetition of "Snoopy's". Also a veryVERY strong closing!

GOOD work!

[Jake2413]

62. I don't understand why all the whining

who cares, you started a business, you worked hard great. Now pay your damn taxes to support the common good. "He who has much, much is expected". This bull was never an issue, there was never noise like this in the first 180 years of this countries existence. Sure there wasn't always an income tax. Tariffs at one point were sufficient to fund the government but things change. It all started with sir Reagan and the me society. Go figure.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

64. I stopped talking to the elder stepson.

He posts hate speech crap on FB, and I call him out on it. He does not have any critical thinking skills. He does not understand that he is posting hate speech. He thinks it's ok. Hate speech is not acceptable and I refuse to see it. He doesn't watch Fox news but he repeats the same crap, with no interest in facts.

His girlfriend has already called me up and rambled about "I understand there's some tension...I hope that's resolved". Well, I'm not speaking to him and neither of them understand why. They think I'm attacking him personally. I am not.

[crimson77]

65. The only thing that I dislike is that he doesn't say President Obama. It take away from the

from the rest of his arguement. If I am a small buisness owner and I'm working my ass off I would be pissed. I dislike this argument, because it can be used to justify anything. It makes us look like Communists. "That car you bought, well you got a credit on it, so that really isn't your car". When we get into semantic arguments like this we end up looking foolish. Businesses aren't easy to start and even harder when your a small business. This guy and every business that starts from the ground up and thrives, deserves all the credit in the world.

A buddy of mine started a photography restoration business, worked his ass off. Then a little thing called photoshop came into existence and he lost everything. His business, health insurance, wife left him. Do you think the goverment helped him get back on his feet? not so much. They attached his wages at his new job for over 2 years until he paid back all his taxes.

[demwing]

69. It isn't a damned semantical argument

its the TRUTH, and you clearly don't get that (or the meaning of the term Communism).

[crimson77]

74. So what in your mind does a man like this owe?

Should he pay 60,70,80 or 90% in taxes, I mean for all that the central planning committee does for this guy. I think as a small gesture he should have a picture of Obama on his wall as a tribute, it's the least he can do.

[demwing]

77. Which debate do you want to have?

The first one, where you claimed that saying "you didn't build that" sounds like Communism, or the second one, where you pretend we were talking about taxes?

I'll have either discussion, or both, but one bullshit issue at a time.

[virgogal]

80. Hmmmm !

[Whisp]

66. Thankyou Elizabeth Warren

I do believe she kick started this meme last autumn and Obama has picked it up, and goodzies for him. It's a fine and true message.

[indepat]

83. Up yours Snoopy's with relish and

zesty mustard. And for lagniappe, fuck you Mr. Webb, you supercilious disrespectful asshole.

[evilhime]

86. A great response

And President Obama has addressed it too: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/312181/new-obama-ad-romneys-taking-my-business-remarks-out-context-katrina-trinko

[SunSeeker]

88. Snoopy's is perpetuating a Fox News lie- the "it" Obama was referring to was infrastructure.

Obama never said small business owners did not build their businesses. But Fox, and Romney, keep truncating his quote to create the lie they are running on. It is pathetic, as is anybody who goes along with it. I would never eat at Snoopy's. The guy is obviously a liar and not someone I'd trust with my stomach.

[larwdem]

90. location

Ware is Snoopy's so we can boycott it

[Hoyt]

91. Snoopy just figured out how to rake off obscene profits from the business

If his small business is really large/profitable enough to be part of what Obama is talking about.

[47of74]

93. If it was me I would have probably added this to my response

[humbled_opinion]

95. applaud your response

but it is never convincing to the teaheads i.e. the argument the teaheads where I work at make is that the President is missing the larger point that being that Snoopy's i.e., already pays taxes to support all those things you mentioned. They argue that the President is declaring that Snoopy's etc, are not paying a fair share, when in fact the majority of working people in America don't pay or pay very little federal tax. They continue, If Snoopy's was somehow getting exempted from paying taxes than of course you would have a point. Their argument is when is enough taxes enough. IOW they claim that most people do not pay federal income tax because it is a progressive tax, the more you make the more they take... The owner of Snoopy's may hire 10 - 20 people and at the end of a business year he may only personally take home 100k in salary but he is taxed on the entire net that the business took in i.e. 400k or so but after he pays salaries and expenses the 100k is what is left over.

Than they go on and on about how calling on the rich to pay for more and more spending can never be the answer because eventually you will take all the money from the rich but the programs will still need to be funded so that cost will roll down hill from there to the lowest level...

and then of course I always hear this obscure quote that no one can adequately attribute to anyone in particular but they claim is sounds convincing.....

"A democracy cannot survive as a permanent form of government. It can last only until its citizens discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority (who vote) will vote for those candidates promising the greatest benefits from the public purse, with the result that a democracy will always collapse from loose fiscal policies, always followed by a dictatorship."


So they continue the Democrats are the party of promises of benefits and they extrapolate the consequences from there...

[Peaceful Protester]

99. No Man Is An Island

The Tea Party began to form in early 2009. Their original political party affiliation was with the GOP. The GOP controlled the agenda of this country for nearly a generation. What where the results? The GOP policies gave us a global war on terror AND a global recession.

Want to know more about how the Tea Party think? Ask a Tea Party member who they voted for in 2000 and 2004. I believe most would say they voted for president Bush. President Bush's first term started with a global war on terror, and his second term ended with a global recession.

Both the global war on terror AND the global recession were avoidable. In 1999, Brooksley Born warned people about the results of deregulation. In 2003, millions of people around the world protested the invasion of Iraq and the start of the war on terror.

According to economist Mike Kimel, the 5 former Democratic Presidents (Clinton, Carter, Johnson, Kennedy, and Truman) all reduced public debt as a share of GDP. The last 4 Republican Presidents (H. Bush, G. Bush, Reagan, and Ford) all oversaw an increase in the country's indebtedness.