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Mon Sep 28, 2015, 04:43 AM

Re: Hillary's email brouhaha, a point of view I haven't seen brought up elsewhere

It seems to me that the Department of State is an organization in which communications is even more critical than it is in most forms of human endeavor, a matter of war and peace, life and death.

At no point have I heard of any effort by SoS Clinton to improve the allegedly atrocious DoS official email system despite the fact it is so bad she could not depend on it for her own official communications. Indeed, rather than moving to at least bring attention to the problem Secretary Clinton worked around it for the benefit of herself and her closest aides and let the rest of the crucial global endeavor known as the US Department of State just deal with a system that by all reports makes AOL look like cutting edge technology.

Putting aside any questions of propriety or legality Hillary's behavior in this matter strikes me as poor leadership, when the leader makes sure their own needs and those of the inner circle are met but the needs of their troops go unfulfilled and indeed unrecognized that breaks every rule of being a good leader I've ever heard.



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Reply Re: Hillary's email brouhaha, a point of view I haven't seen brought up elsewhere (Original post)
Fumesucker Sep 2015 OP
Human101948 Sep 2015 #1
Half-Century Man Sep 2015 #3
BlueEye Sep 2015 #6
Human101948 Sep 2015 #10
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2015 #14
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2015 #11
Human101948 Sep 2015 #16
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2015 #17
brush Sep 2015 #56
artislife Sep 2015 #52
0rganism Sep 2015 #70
Half-Century Man Sep 2015 #2
Vattel Sep 2015 #4
pnwmom Sep 2015 #5
Android3.14 Sep 2015 #8
COLGATE4 Sep 2015 #13
pnwmom Sep 2015 #21
Fumesucker Sep 2015 #67
Android3.14 Sep 2015 #7
Human101948 Sep 2015 #9
Android3.14 Sep 2015 #12
Human101948 Sep 2015 #15
Autumn Sep 2015 #32
RiverLover Sep 2015 #37
Autumn Sep 2015 #41
RiverLover Sep 2015 #45
questionseverything Sep 2015 #65
Android3.14 Sep 2015 #29
Human101948 Sep 2015 #35
Android3.14 Sep 2015 #36
Human101948 Sep 2015 #39
Android3.14 Sep 2015 #49
Human101948 Sep 2015 #51
jeff47 Sep 2015 #38
pnwmom Sep 2015 #22
Fumesucker Sep 2015 #26
pnwmom Sep 2015 #42
Fumesucker Sep 2015 #47
jeff47 Sep 2015 #59
Android3.14 Sep 2015 #28
TBF Sep 2015 #18
Fumesucker Sep 2015 #23
TBF Sep 2015 #34
Fumesucker Sep 2015 #53
TBF Sep 2015 #61
Darb Sep 2015 #19
Chan790 Sep 2015 #20
Fumesucker Sep 2015 #24
frylock Sep 2015 #62
DanTex Sep 2015 #25
Fumesucker Sep 2015 #27
NowSam Sep 2015 #30
Fumesucker Sep 2015 #33
Onlooker Sep 2015 #31
Human101948 Sep 2015 #40
Fumesucker Sep 2015 #50
Human101948 Sep 2015 #54
Fumesucker Sep 2015 #57
jeff47 Sep 2015 #43
artislife Sep 2015 #55
frylock Sep 2015 #63
JoePhilly Sep 2015 #44
RiverLover Sep 2015 #46
SheilaT Sep 2015 #48
jeff47 Sep 2015 #58
Fumesucker Sep 2015 #60
SheilaT Sep 2015 #64
Fumesucker Sep 2015 #66
SheilaT Sep 2015 #68
Motown_Johnny Sep 2015 #69

Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:21 AM

1. Of course, when we do have efforts to do something, we end up with a computer system like...

 

the one that launched Obamacare. Perhaps Hillary was wise to avoid a debacle like that.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:31 AM

3. Considering the general atmosphere of obstruction in Washington.

One has to wonder, how many (if any) were incompetent by design, not chance.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:45 AM

6. I'm not an IT expert, but in general, I'm pretty sure that implementing a functional...

intra-departmental email system designed to serve tens of thousands of employees in a secure and efficient manner is not as hard as a secure e-commerce website designed to serve millions. Healthcare.gov was a massive undertaking, and while the initial problems should have been avoided, it was at least understandable that it would have glitches.

But an email system should not be that hard. Many entities in the private sector that are larger than the State Dept. by employees have no such problems. No reason the government can't have the same.

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Response to BlueEye (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 06:04 AM

10. Perhaps Hillary realized she was not an IT expert?

 

I don't think it is the job of the SOS to redesign the computer systems.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/03/08/republican-colin-powell-deals-death-blow-hillary-clinton-email-scandal.html

On ABC’s This Week, former Sec. of State Colin Powell admitted that he used a private email account for public business. Powell’s explanation of why he used a private email account amounted to a death blow for Republicans who are trying to build a scandal out of Hillary Clinton’s emails.

Why didn't Colin Powell redesign the email system instead of using a personal email?

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #10)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 06:24 AM

14. Because he was a Republican.

Are you suggesting the competence and leadership bar for Democrats should be as low as it is for Republicans?

I expect more from Democrats than I do from Republicans in terms of competence and intelligence.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 06:19 AM

11. End up with? the launch was just that, a launch, under deadline pressure.

Which frequently sucks in the private sector too. It was largely fixed within a couple of months, and was working smoothly within a few more months after that.

Take away the rollout deadline, and you avoid the 'fiasco' part of rollouts. Also, you weren't going to have tens of millions of people all trying to use the State email server at once.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #11)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 06:29 AM

16. Excuses, excuses...

 

Made no difference. It was a public relations disaster.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #16)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 06:38 AM

17. It's what I did for a job for over a decade.

I saw it time and time again - management sets up a deadline, then don't actually allocate enough resources (ie, coders) to meet that deadline. So of course you get a fiasco.

Yes, it was a public relations fiasco. But one that sprung from management, not from the tech end of things. You have to actually let your staff have the time they need to do the work, do the testing, and hand you a finished product, not demand that it MUST be produced on a certain date, unless you're also giving them enough people to get it done and tested even earlier.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #16)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 10:21 AM

56. It's working smoothly now and has been for a long while

What's your point in bringing up a very old story with repug talking points?

And what does that have to do with the OP's topic?

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #11)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 10:10 AM

52. WA state's worked like a charm

 

I got in the federal website they shot me over the WA's website and it was an easy and pleasant interface to deal with. Had coverage in a zippity doo minute. But our state embraced the ACA. Oregon had a big fiasco on theirs, from what I heard from Portland friends.

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Response to artislife (Reply #52)

Tue Sep 29, 2015, 12:41 PM

70. OR state's fail was tightly coupled to alleged malfeasance by Oracle corp.

Oracle contracted to deliver a working system for the state of Oregon.
they utterly failed, and there's a bunch of legal actions going both ways about it now.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/08/25/oregon-files-suit-against-oracle-developer-of-faulty-health-exchange/

another fantastic public-private partnership brought to you by Enhanced Capitalism(tm).

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:24 AM

2. Good point.

If nothing else, it seems to show an ambivalence toward repairing infrastructure.

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:43 AM

4. Meh, it depends on what could have been done.

 

I find it much more disturbing that she argued for a huge troop surge in Afghanistan, supported war in Libya, sought to arm rebels in Syria, etc.

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:44 AM

5. Meh. She was part of a much larger system that she couldn't turn around

fast enough to fix the problems at State. There WAS an update scheduled and gradually being done -- just not in time for her to avoid these problems.

Updating all the technology throughout government costs a lot of money and probably isn't done nearly often enough.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #5)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:48 AM

8. Any evidence she attempted to turn it around and failed?

 

That would be the "meh" in this case.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 06:22 AM

13. You can't 'turn around' part of an overall system. As has already

been mentioned, the entire system was scheduled to be upgraded, but seeing as it takes in multiple agencies it didn't happen in time for her to benefit from it. You're trying to criticize her for not using powers she didn't have.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 07:50 AM

21. They don't have a separate technological set-up there. There was a schedule for

a PLANNED and BUDGETED update. One single department can't change something like that.

Maybe they can do that in a business. They can't in government.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Tue Sep 29, 2015, 06:10 AM

67. Government is inefficient and slow and top administrators know there's nothing that can be done

Good message for Democrats to send to the electorate during a campaign, yes?

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:46 AM

7. Appropriate observation

 

People keep saying she has leadership skills, but it seems she only has a leader-like facade in a poorly acted movie. At best she has an ability to follow, with high production values.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:56 AM

9. I don't think so...

 

We should follow Bernie's example and focus on the issues rather than trying to bring Hillary down with right wing concoctions.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 06:20 AM

12. I doubt anyone would consider Fumesucker as rightwing

 

The OP is from a DU-er rather than the GOP, and is an appropriate observation that points at her ability to lead.

With the extreme efforts of HRC to stack the deck in her favor debate-wise, her corporate masters pulling the strings, and her weak policy decisions, it is the responsibility of ethical and informed voters to show why Bernie is a better choice over Clinton.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #12)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 06:25 AM

15. And perhaps you should follow his example!

 

I am for Bernie over Hillary. But if she should end up the Democratic nominee, I would not want to be in the position of having weakened her by supporting right wing memes.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:26 AM

32. That's one of my favorite memes right there. Kudos

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Response to Autumn (Reply #32)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:17 AM

37. boom!

Nailed it, Autumn.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #37)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:24 AM

41. DU went wacko for a bit. I will send you the jusry results on your other OP.

it was a 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #41)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:40 AM

45. Thanks!

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:14 PM

65. actually primary time is exactly when these problems should be worked out

by the time Obama had won the primary everything but the kitchen sink had been thrown at him,,,,there was not much left for the repubs to say

we need the same thing now

the entire email thing is a huge unforced error

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:17 AM

29. Her ability to lead is an issue.

 

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #29)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:05 AM

35. Her ability to lead an IT department?

 

I don't think that the workings of the State Department IT system is the responsibility of the SOS.

Following your logic, President Obama is a failure as a leader because of the ACA website disaster. Or his dereliction of duty in that hack of the government personnel files.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #35)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:14 AM

36. Yes, the State Department's IT

 

You seem to be all over the place on this issue.

But your use of the ACA disaster is a great example of leadership. Obama, unlike Clinton, ordered his people to solve the IT problem, demonstrating appropriate Presidential leadership.

What did Clinton do?

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #36)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:19 AM

39. Yes, Obama failed to anticipate problems with the ACA and with the hack...

 

Horse out of the barn. You are demanding a different standard of foresight for Hillary.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #39)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:57 AM

49. Odd. I'm not demanding anything

 

Logical fallacies are so lame.
Ad hominem - Calling Fumesucker's OP a right-wing concoction
Non sequitur - Attempting to link the crashes of the ACA website due to traffic with the inappropriate use of a personal email server for "convenience", two very different problems.
Strawman argument - I'm not defending or attacking Obama.

Observing that a person shows poor leadership is not demanding a different standard. It's pointing out the person wanting to lead should probably, you know, lead on occasion.

Further, and worth noting, is how you are using this as a lever to criticize Obama.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #49)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 10:08 AM

51. Oh, a palpable hit! You must have earned an A in that class!

 

By beating this dead horse you are working side by side with Gowdy and Chaffetz. (Though I hope your motivations are different.)

I am not criticizing President Obama, I am pointing out how absurd your attacks on Hillary are.



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Response to Human101948 (Reply #35)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:19 AM

38. Day-to-day she isn't responsible, but she is responsible for the overall direction

Following your logic, President Obama is a failure as a leader because of the ACA website disaster

Well, he put the people in charge who then failed.

The original assumption was Healthcare.gov would be a simple "redirect to your state" site. When Republicans refused to play along, suddenly the federal site required much more work. AFAICT, there was not a significant boost in resources to develop the much more sophisticated site.

So while Obama is not responsible for the literal development of the site, he is responsible for the managers who did not increase resources when they suddenly had a much larger level of effort.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 07:51 AM

22. People are ignoring the enormous bureaucracy she was working within.

There was no way for her to singlehandedly turn the ship of state, so she got a life raft for her department.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #22)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:10 AM

26. She brought war to Libya, peace to Northern Ireland but can't bring better email to her department?

A hypothesis I find a bit hard take entirely seriously.

You do realize that Hillary's "department" was quite literally the Department of State?

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #26)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:24 AM

42. Have you ever worked in a bureaucracy as huge as the US government's?

With budgets that are set by the U.S. Congress?

Get real.

She would have seen no need to try to accelerate the budgeted update, when she could just do what her predecessors had done, with no complaints from anyone.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #42)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:45 AM

47. I haven't brought peace to Northern Ireland or dodged sniper fire in Tuzla either

You are actually making my point for me, Republicans do unethical stuff and Democrats go along with it, then have the same behavior thrown back in their teeth.

I used to think it was unfair that Hannity used Alan Colmes as his Democratic punching bag, now it's clear that Colmes is the perfect representative Democrat.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #42)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 10:36 AM

59. Yes.

And there are two ways to get things to change:

1) Very, very slowly from the bottom.
2) Very quickly when someone at the top says "Do this now".

It's really too bad that Clinton was just another low-level state department worker and had to use the first path. If only she had something like a cabinet-level position where she could have moved things along more quickly.

She would have seen no need to try to accelerate the budgeted update, when she could just do what her predecessors had done, with no complaints from anyone.

Problem is, her predecessors did not completely botch the security of their email, and no one has found TS/SCI in their non-state email accounts.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #22)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:15 AM

28. Not according to her own words.

 

A couple of points.
First, she was supposed to be leading this enormous bureaucracy of which you speak. Second, she didn't even try to "turn the ship of state", and since when does an email address count as the "ship of state"? Finally, when this first came to light, she said in March, ""I opted for convenience to use my personal email account, which was allowed by the State Department, because I thought it would be easier to carry just one device for my work and for my personal emails instead of two."

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 07:09 AM

18. Honestly I think this is a non-issue

unless the FBI determines there are shenanigans I wouldn't worry about this.

I lived and worked in Washington DC throughout the 90s. Anyone who had access to the White House will tell you Bill Clinton was not computer savvy AT ALL, and only started learning as Chelsea got older. Much like any of our parents he learned email to keep in touch with her (Hillary & Bill are just a little younger than my own parents). At that point I was working in law firms and had a friend who worked in a "help desk" role for White House systems. I have no reason to expect that Hillary was any more savvy than he was.

There are plenty of reasons to prefer Bernie on substantive issues of policy without getting mired in trivialities.

Service on Walmart's Board of Directors, top contributors coming from Wall Street, strong support for HB1Visas, etc ... all the pro-corporate stances that ignore our failing domestic infrastructure are much more important to look at in my view.



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Response to TBF (Reply #18)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 07:57 AM

23. Leadership qualities are important in a President

As I said, my point has nothing to do with the propriety or legality of a separate private email server but rather a lack of attention to what is by all accounts a serious communication problem at the State Department.

Just have all government employees get a Yahoo account and be done with with all this legal mumbo jumbo over FOIA rules and so forth, obviously government is far too slow to keep up with 1990's technology in 2015.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #23)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:55 AM

34. We need a leader who understands

there 99% of this country is not doing well economically. That's the bottom line. Bernie is best candidate I've seen in that regard. He's been in Congress 20+ years, he has not taken $$$ from corporations, he does not change his positions with the wind. That's a leader with principles.

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Response to TBF (Reply #34)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 10:10 AM

53. Look after your troops and your troops will look after you

“Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys.
Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!”
– Sun Tzu, the Art of War

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #53)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 11:05 AM

61. Imagine

"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one"

- John Lennon, Imagine


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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 07:13 AM

19. The SOS should spend her valuable time on rehabbing the email system, right, got it.

 

That's a bunch of bullshit.

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Response to Darb (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 07:24 AM

20. Time? No. The resources and IT staff at her disposal? Yes.

 

Pretty much the single most important role/task of a leader, supervisor or manager is to make sure the people under your supervision have the tools and resources to do their jobs. If you're failing to do that, regardless what else you accomplish, it is utterly reasonable to consider you a failure at your job.

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Response to Darb (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:03 AM

24. She spent time on her personal email...

It's not like HRC isn't fully aware that the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy is ready to jump on the slightest misstep she might make.

The whole thing gives me two different reactions depending on my mood.. What on Earth was Hillary thinking? What else is quietly sliding beneath the radar while the giant typhoon of the email "scandal" that will ultimately come to little or nothing clutters up the screen?

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Response to Darb (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 12:05 PM

62. Maybe she could delegate someone to handle that task..

I don't think the CIO where I work built out our network. I could ask, but I'm pretty certain he hired somebody to oversee that, who in turn hired engineers to get the job done.

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:06 AM

25. I haven't heard that either. You are breaking new ground in the field of Hillary-hating.

Right-wingers have nothing on DU when it comes to anti-Hillary propaganda.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #25)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:11 AM

27. You've got mail...

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:19 AM

30. Seems like an easy rule to comply with, no?

I don't know. Why not just use the preferred system instead of setting up your own private server and all that? Motives are important. Really. Please don't throw too much shade at me if I am ignorant on this matter. I just don't understand why Hillary wouldn't have just used the approved system and instead chose to use her own private system. She didn't know the rule? Wasn't a lot of this after that General was found on violation of same?

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Response to NowSam (Reply #30)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:32 AM

33. I guess ultimately I know what I think of Republicans who do this sort of thing

I think they are using it for various sleazy purposes that may or may not be technically illegal but stink to knock a buzzard off a honeycart anyway.

When Republicans do this shit the Democrats just let it slide for "the good of the nation" and then they get it thrown right back in their teeth.

I used to think Hannity using Alan Colmes as his "Democrat" punching bag was unfair, not any more.

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:25 AM

31. The basic problem with this scandal is there's no scandal

 

There is no evidence that there was anything wrong with Hillary using her own email server. Nothing bad happened. No documents were exposed or found that compromised US policy or security in any way. So, in fact, what difference does it make that she used her own email account? The scandal has been manufactured by the right, and left should stop doing the right's bidding.

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Response to Onlooker (Reply #31)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:22 AM

40. Absolutely correct..

 

One has to wonder about the motives of all these nitpickers on DU.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #40)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 10:06 AM

50. You appear to be questioning my credibility

I was posting professional practical advice on how to influence politics here on DU in 2012.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002374653


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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #50)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 10:15 AM

54. What is your practical professional advice in this case?

 

It would be helpful to know what Hillary should do.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #54)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 10:27 AM

57. Should do or should have done?

The first rule of holes is to stop digging, even better never start in the first place.

No one, especially Hillary, could ever have possibly imagined that the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy would go after her for something they themselves have done.

Seriously, how dumb are we supposed to be?

My professional practical advice here would be to pay special attention to what's going under the radar while all the noise and fury is focused on Hillary's email.

All my OPs since DU3 are in my journal, you can look and see I seldom post OPs about politics, I try to post when I have something to say.

Hillary is not a leader I would want to have to follow into battle, Obama considerably more so and Bernie much more so.

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Response to Onlooker (Reply #31)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:26 AM

43. Actually, she really, really screwed up.

I know, people really want to pretend this is Benghazi mark 2. But she really did screw up.

What we know so far about how abysmal the security was on her server:

1) Communications with her server were not encrypted for the first 3 months.
https://www.venafi.com/blog/post/what-venafi-trustnet-tells-us-about-the-clinton-email-server/

2) They left the default VPN keys installed on her server
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/clinton-s-e-mail-system-built-for-privacy-though-not-security

Using those addresses, McGeorge discovered that the certificate appearing on the site Tuesday appeared to be the factory default for the security appliance, made by Fortinet Inc., running the service.


3) They were using, and continue to use, self-signed SSL certificates
http://gawker.com/how-unsafe-was-hillary-clintons-secret-staff-email-syst-1689393042

4) They set up a .com domain, enabling the typosquater who has registered clintonmail.com (no "e" before "mail". Whoever registered that domain is in a perfect position to steal login information or perform spear phishing attacks.

5) Her ISP was repeatedly hacked by China
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=615632

And that's just the basic security angle. That doesn't even touch the classified information angle.

"Used her own email" is not a problem. Doing such an abysmal job on the security of her own email is a problem. TS/SCI in that email with abysmal security is an extremely large problem.

And just to cover the likely response to this, yes no one has announced a hack of her email. Who would? The governments who would hack her server announce as many successful operations as the NSA does: zero. And the only people who would need to be notified of a breach are Clinton and her top aides. You think they're going to announce that they were hacked?

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #43)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 10:15 AM

55. Before I just thought it was "dumb"

 

But now I think it is stupid.

Really, really stupid. Even I know to use a better system than Norton! This goes into the mainstream arguments, expect serious fall out. This is beyond the server being slow...though I do know how frustrating that can be.

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Response to Onlooker (Reply #31)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 12:08 PM

63. Who cares about standards and best practices?

Where else do you think it's acceptable for government employees to cut corners?

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:27 AM

44. Keep flipping over rocks.

There has got to be something!!!

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #44)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:43 AM

46. yep...like reply #43...there it is!

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:57 AM

48. Wait. The State Department email was unreliable?

 

While I've not been following this story very closely, this is the first I've heard of that claim. The excuse I've always seen for her setting up her own private server was that she didn't want to have to log in and out of more than one email system. Or that she had some sort of electronic devise that could only handle one email system, and so she chose to have her own, rather than use the company one.

I think the core problem there is that Hillary grew up long before email, and as an attorney her job didn't put her in touch with the wonderful world of electronic devices. Then Bill became President in 1992, she stopped working as an attorney, and never did get around to joining the 21st century. Unfortunately, her predecessors at State apparently also used their own private email accounts for work-related messages, so of course she thought it was just fine, and there was no one around to explain to her otherwise.

Overall, I think the email thing is not very important, since no one seems to be claiming that anyone out there ever hacked her account, but it makes her look a bit less than competent, and her handling of it has been evasive, to say the very least.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #48)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 10:31 AM

58. Who would announce they hacked her account?

How many successful operations has the NSA announced? Zero. Why would the NSA-equivalent in other countries announce their hacks? Announcing the hack causes people to close the security hole you used. So the pros never announce their hacks.

Things like the OPM hack become public because of the enormous number of people who need to be notified. Yet while the US government announced OPM was hacked, no one has claimed to have launched the hack - China is still pretending they do not hack anything.

The only people who would have to be notified of a hack are Clinton and her top aides. Why would they announce they were hacked?

The security on her server wasn't just bad. It was abysmal. See post #43 in this thread. With security that bad, we can be sure the skilled foreign countries got in her server.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #48)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 10:37 AM

60. If you read the thread the answer to your question is apparent

That the DoS had and has a lousy IT environment has been a given here on DU since this issue hit public consciousness. I've heard it said by enough people without ever being specifically refuted that I tend to think it's true although I do not know this for absolute certain.



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #60)

Mon Sep 28, 2015, 01:46 PM

64. In which case, every single State Department employee

 

was using a crappy email account, one apparently vulnerable to hacking or whatever.

Sometimes people announce they've hacked something, sometimes not. But I'm still saying that the reasons I'd always seen given for her using a private server was for her own convenience. Never before have I seen anything about a lack of security with the State Department. This somehow sounds like continued grasping for justification of her illegal server.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #64)

Tue Sep 29, 2015, 06:07 AM

66. Not crappy as in insecure so much as crappy as in slow and unreliable

Anything considered confidential information is supposed to go by a completely different system anyway, it's not the security that's the issue so much as the fact that DoS employees could not communicate efficiently.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #66)

Tue Sep 29, 2015, 10:31 AM

68. Now I'm very confused.

 

Hillary is being slammed for using her own server, not the State Department one even though "Anything considered confidential information is supposed to go by a completely different system anyway". What different system? And why didn't she use THAT one?

Although it still comes back to "All the other kids are doing it" excuse of hers, and now she can't explain how a bunch of emails have been recovered that were sent from her personal server some two months before the server was (supposedly) up and running.

It's getting to the point where I'd fact check her if she told me the sky is blue.

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Response to Fumesucker (Original post)

Tue Sep 29, 2015, 12:18 PM

69. Where do you get that the State Dept.'s system was that bad?

 


I have not heard her try to validate her private server by criticizing the State Departments. maybe I missed it.


The initial response from her campaign was that she didn't want to carry two phones. She has said it was a matter of convenience that turned out to not be convenient at all.

Basically, all I get from her is that she was too lazy to bother with a second email account, no matter the security risks.


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