Hillary sold out LGBT community to keep Fox News happy

[nichomachus]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-hillary-clinton-emails-20150930-story.html

While secretary of State, Clinton personally intervened in early 2011 to reverse a policy change at the State Department that had been a symbolic gesture to nontraditional families, the messages show. She fretted that the change would give fodder to Fox News to attack her.

An email involving passport applications was notable for the raw nerve the issue of gay rights seemed to touch. Clinton expressed anger that the application form had been changed from its reference to traditional parents, and she demanded to know who was behind it.

"Who made the decision that State will not use the terms 'mother and father' and instead substitute 'parent one and two'?" she wrote.

"I am not defending that decision which I disagree w and knew nothing about in front of this Congress. … We need to address this today or we will be facing a huge Fox generated media storm led by Palin et al."

As usual, always about her and her political ambitions, not about what's right.

[RufusTFirefly]

1. But, but, she's "evolved" since then!

I'm, like, sure of it!

(By the way, what's illuminating about this is that it's the "unfiltered" Hillary, the side of her that isn't influenced by polls and focus groups.)

[nichomachus]

2. It could have been she was just sleep deprived. n/t

[RufusTFirefly]

4. Hey! Cut Our New President® some slack! That happens, you know!

Especially when you're worrying about being "dead broke."
You have no idea what she's had to endure.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

42. From all of those 3AM phone calls?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. Once again, Hillary showing real courage...not!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

[Fearless]

3. I've said it since it happened...

She only supported us once the polls showed a majority of the country did. Literally that week she "evolved".

[cprise]

40. She is a true Third-Wayer -- Let Repubs lead. eom

[Luminous Animal]

5. And Palin. She cowered before Palin. Hillary. Frightened of Palin.

[nichomachus]

6. But she'll put Putin in his place

[MindfulOne]

23. Here it is:

Put it in the OP, IMO.

Makes me ill.

[bvf]

30. All the while

keeping that hairy eyeball trained on Iran.

(With Palin's say-so, of course.)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

36. Good one! You can be sure Bernie won't cower in fear.

[RufusTFirefly]

7. Palin is scary. You betcha.

Let's face it. Hillary is a very smart person and has lot of wonderful qualities. But Sarah and her posse would beat the crap out of her in a bar fight. She has every reason to be frightened.

[NanceGreggs]

8. How ironic!

The OP title looks like something FOX-News would use - but then, this whole story is so FOX-Newsy!

[Luminous Animal]

9. So you agree with Hillary. Democrats should be afraid of Palin.

[RufusTFirefly]

10. Attention! Attention!! This just in: Fox News and the LA Times are different.

We repeat. Fox News and the LA Times are different.



Sorry if you missed earlier bulletins, Nance.

Please adjust as you see fit.

[Hydra]

12. Haven't you gotten the memo from Team Hillary?

Anything that "bashes" her by reporting an actual event is now a "RW smear" from an unreputible source.

I can't WAIT to see them pull that out when The WH sends something out they disagree with >

[RufusTFirefly]

15. I saw that, but this rather embarrassing...

You see, the truth is that I am actually Karl Rove. OK, I admit it. Honesty isn't my strong suit, but every once in a great while I slip up.
I can't help myself: I've been writing thousands of posts in order to lull unsuspecting DUers into complacency.

(Thank heavens I'm well compensated for my efforts!!)

[Hydra]

59. KKKarl!

[oasis]

16. Since when is "sold out" not used in a bash context?

[nichomachus]

18. When someone sells out?

[oasis]

25. no need to answer for the other poster. I'll let this one sink

on it's own merits.

[NealK]

47. +1

[closeupready]

96. LA Times is owned by Republican, Bush-endorsing Tribune Co.

[nichomachus]

11. Yeah, Hillary's own words sound "Fox Newsy"

That's why so many people think she'd be a terrible president. Just as she was a terrible secretary of state and a mediocre senator.

[jfern]

20. True that

"Hard working white people" and "He (Saddam) has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members" are straight out of Fox News.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

38. Per usual, Hillary is her own worst enemy.

[nichomachus]

13. Maybe you should suggest an alternate title

"Hillary, tough on Putin, but cowers before Palin"

"Hillary, puts her own interests ahead of the LGBT community"

Any other suggestions?

[quickesst]

26. It's getting pretty pathetic

It's like the movie Body Snatchers, and a lot of democrats have been replaced by Fox pods. And these people cry, piss, moan, and groan about HRC's "surrogates".

[bvf]

43. No, it's nothing at all like that.

Hillary Clinton, as Secretary of State, expressed concern about what Sarah Palin might say. That's Sarah Palin she was worried about. It's right there in the e-mail.

In case you missed it: Sarah Palin.

[quickesst]

50. Throwing shit at the wall....

...and hoping some of it will stick is not a very good strategy. A lot of you latch on to anything you can no matter how inconsequential, do your best to make a mountain out of a molehill, wring it for all it's worth, then move on to the next potential mountain. Whenever I comment on Bernie's supporters, I always try to include a "not all" in my response for those who are at least even-handed in their criticism of HRC. That's rapidly turning into a "few", and as far as I can tell, there aren't any on this thread who qualify.

[bvf]

76. Uh huh.

Throwing shit at the wall and hoping some of it will stick is not a very good strategy.

Excellent advice for Hillary Clinton supporters everywhere. And I mean everywhere.

If you're OK with a candidate who openly worries about what a word-salad-spewing hack with the intellectual chops of a middle-schooler will have to say about her stance on LGBT issues though, I guess you don't have a lot of choice.

This isn't "throwing shit at the wall," no. This is an issue that should be of concern to any voter interested in how his/her candidate will react to the slightest threat of criticism by the far right.

[quickesst]

86. Uh-huh

Any anti-Clinton issue, no matter how inconsequential, is of "concern" to many anti-Cli.......er, Bernie supporters.

[bvf]

89. Roll your eyes till you're dizzy. It's a clear distinction.

If I thought for a moment Sanders would conduct office policy based on the babble-potential of Sarah Palin, I suppose I would think twice about investing my support.

Fortunately, Hillary's already answered that question insofar as it telegraphs her own M.O.

[Chan790]

65. I like to propose the alternate perspective.

If this many people see that Hillary Clinton is unsuitable for the Democratic nomination for this many reasons this vociferously...perhaps it's time that her supporters consider the possibility that even if they can't see it, maybe everybody else is right and they're wrong about Hillary.

I'm reminded of the Bill Nye/Ken Ham debate.



(Image is not meant to imply any support for Hillary from Ken Ham nor attribute any candidate support to Bill Nye...it just makes a handy visual to express the resistance on the part of Hillary Clinton supporters to the growing mountain of evidence that their candidate is unfit for the nomination.)

[NealK]

68. +1

[quickesst]

71. Nah...

I'll stick with Hillary as I have since she was First Lady of my state. I like Bernie, and I will support him as the nominee, but I will not give any credence to the shadow campaign that is more anti-Hillary than it is pro-Bernie, and is firmly entrenched in the skewed philosophy that humiliation produces positive results. Deny it if you will, but the fact is too many of Bernie's supporters are deeply involved in petty attempts at humiliating Clinton and it has turned into a running contest to see who can top the last one. Can't see the image on my kindle, but I doubt it would alter anything in my response.

[Fumesucker]

83. Not good enough Bernie!

This OP, complete with the image below was posted on May 27, 2015, coincidentally Bernie Sanders announced his candidacy on May 26, the day before

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026737025

[quickesst]

84. What?

[Fumesucker]

85. You mentioned humiliation leading to positive results...

Attaching that extremely racist picture to a rant about Bernie Sanders was designed for the purpose of humiliation.

The humiliation began on DU the day after Sanders announced, go read the thread, it's awful.

[quickesst]

87. I see...

You mean like this one?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251634015

[Fumesucker]

88. That thread was Sept 29, a little after the one I posted

"Yeah, well, respectfully, if that is your position, then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with a very real problem."

[quickesst]

90. I don't know...

...if you're quoting someone else, or you, but if it's you, I say go right ahead if you think talking to only white people will help deal with the problem. I don't think you'll get a lot out of that strategy, but far be it from me to tell you how to conduct yourself. Me? I'm just going to keep doing what I can, when I can, and talk to anyone I can.

[LuvLoogie]

29. There will probably be ten threads on this latest of atrocities.

Maybe the 11th thread will finally convince me that they really don't like her. I don't know why they keep trying to convince each other. They must have doubts.

[murielm99]

32. It could be that she thought,

and rightly so, that she should have been informed of the change. It should have been discussed with her.

These other, twisted readings of the OP and the email are just typical lame attempts at bashing Hillary.

Should she have been concerned about the SOS's office image, and the media firestorm that might result? Damn right! She also needed to think about the heat her boss, the President, might have taken. Every word he says is scrutinized, too.

[bvf]

41. She was concerned about

what Sarah Fucking Palin would say, for fuck's sake!

Sorry, there's no other way to look at this.

Sarah Fucking Palin! Jesus on a stick, but that was a stupid thing to say!

[murielm99]

45. She was most certainly using

Palin as an example. But I am sure you know that.

Hillary has stood up to worse than Palin. But I am sure you know that, too.

Goodbye.

[bvf]

46. There, there.

Pretty soon the Hillary crowd can go back to incessant snark about e-mail bombshells having to do with dinner invitations or whatever with beaucoup sarcasm smilies.

Sarah Palin. Christ Almighty.

[LondonReign2]

57. So you don't like the headline. Do you like Hillary's e-mail?

[Prism]

67. Maybe you'll want to not be an apologist for this one, eh?

Especially on issues concerning minority communities. Not a great track record of interaction with the LGBT community when they have a problem with a politician you like.

Just saying.

[NealK]

70. Nance is strangely silent. Could it be that she realized how stupid her post was?

[NanceGreggs]

74. Actually ...

.. I did attempt to respond a few times, but I kept dissolving into laughter - to the point where I couldn't even see the monitor, no less type!



But seriously folks - no doubt this email will topple HRC's campaign!

[NealK]

78. Suuure, we believe you oh great Nance.

(or is it Nance the Great? Maybe I should have said Your Greggness?)

[bvf]

91. Again with the straw man crap.

I don't see any posts here that claim this will "topple" HRC's campaign or any suggesting anything of the sort.

What I see is a reaction to HRC expressing worries about how Sarah Palin might've reacted to how HRC did her job as Secretary of State.

[pa28]

14. I wonder what happened to the well meaning person who made that common sense change?

Sounds like you needed to ask yourself "what would Fox News think" in Hillary's State Department or you might have a very bad day at the office.

[nichomachus]

17. You don't

buck the mighty Clinton Machine or else. It doesn't end well for you.

[RufusTFirefly]

24. Totally agree! But, hey, why fight it??

If you want a corporate-friendly, Wall Street-loving, saber-rattling, fiercely neo-liberal America, she truly can't be beat.

Who could ask for anything more? Who could ask for anything more?

[restorefreedom]

19. damn its always about her.

except its not.

its about the people and what they need, except in hillaryworld.

go away now, we need a real leader

enjoy your retirement!

[arcane1]

21. Interesting priorities n/t

[zentrum]

22. So, Palin

….was running the State Department by default, 'cause the SOS was running scared.

Great leadership.

[AtomicKitten]

27. We have learned that covering her ass is more important to her than doing the right thing.

[TDale313]

28. Sadly, not a surprise.

Not the first time LGBT rights took a back seat for the Clintons to political expediency.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Wait..wait...she's "courageous, a leader, strong, determined, etc, etc,".... in the commercials.

[bvf]

33. This is disturbing.

I get the concern about Fox in a way, but an explicit mention of Palin?

Yeah, that's pretty damning.

[RufusTFirefly]

34. Seriously, Palin is a formidable intellect. A worthy rival to President-Elect Hillary

But Shirley you must have realized this before I drew your attention to it.

[bvf]

37. Shirley.

http://m.

[SoapBox]

39. I am so over Ms. Inevitable.

No more Bush...No more Clinton...and especially no more Hillary.

[bigwillq]

51. This +infinity.

[m-lekktor]

55. took the words right out of my mouth! nt

[DonCoquixote]

44. this was 2011

awful, but still, well before Joe Biden forced people to start "evolving."

[Bluenorthwest]

54. Joe Biden, who shouted out that he and Senator Obama both agreed with Palin that marriage is

reserved for God's favorites? That Joe Biden, the DOMA yes voter? He's very often been guilty of the exact same brand of dismissive politics that Clinton is seen doing here.

Bernie Sanders, always a full supporter, never told me about his God agreeing with Palin, never voted against the rights of others.

[DonCoquixote]

73. say what you will

But Biden is the one who pushed Obama to stop being afraid of gay marriage. That also influenced his choice of Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan, two people who have never gotten respect, but who cast the DECIDING VOTES for gay marriage.

[Scuba]

48. "As usual, always about her and her political ambitions, not about what's right."

Bingo!

[bigdarryl]

49. I though this was about a serious investigation to me there is something

Fucked up about going through Clinton's private e-mails and releasing them to the public.And 'm reading post on here of supposed progressives who are gleeful of this bullshit.This is nothing but a witch hunt

[SidDithers]

52. The right hates Hillary. The fringe left hates Hillary...

and they're both happily scavenging her e-mails for ways to attack her.

Sid

[NealK]

79. Some Canadians are deeply in love with her though.

Ah, love is blind.

ETA: What's your opinion about this, Sid?

Ontario MPPs approve motion to remove words mother, father from government forms

Ontario lawmakers have approved a motion to remove the words 'mother' and 'father' from all government forms to "reflect the diverse nature" of families in the province.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-mpps-approve-motion-to-remove-words-mother-father-from-government-forms-1.3241962

[LondonReign2]

58. Is the e-mail itself bullshit? Or does it perhaps lend some insight into Hillary's character?

[bigdarryl]

69. The problem is why is it OK to look into her e-mails

But not anyone who's running running fr President e-mails.And don't give me that bullshit about its an investigation into classified e-mails because this e-mail shit come out of that Bengazi investigation that's been proven it's nothing but a witch hunt

[winter is coming]

77. This particular email was work-related, and should be available via FOIA. n/t

[Broward]

53. A profile in courage.

[Android3.14]

56. Is she even self-aware enough to know how much she has betrayed her soul?

What a sad-sad selfish woman.

[beaglelover]

60. I'm gay and I'm still voting for her if she is the D POTUS nominee.

[totodeinhere]

63. Well if she is the nominee most of us will vote for her.

But lets hope that doesn't happen.

[DemocraticWing]

66. And that's why Democrats can throw us under the bus.

We have nowhere else to go.

[Ichingcarpenter]

61. Weather vanes and Sign Posts

Weather vanes and Sign Posts

Signposts being people in life and politics whose beliefs are firmly rooted in principles, for which they stand firm, refusing to bend to passing fads and opinion polls, pointing the way forward even when they are an isolated minority.''

''In contrast, weathervanes are those people of no fixed principles, who spin round in all and opposite directions to court popularity, and in the case of professional politicians, to gain power, prestige and privilege.''

''The former deserve our admiration, the latter our contempt and eternal suspicion about their motives and reliability. The latter is rank opportunism, soaked in hypocrisy and cynicism''.


-----Tony Benn 1925 – 2014

[NealK]

81. Oh, so that's what Camp Weathervanes means!

Thanks, Ichingcarpenter. I really had no idea what it meant.

[cpompilo]

62. What a way to make policy!

[WillyT]

64. How... Presidential...

[Metric System]

72. What is wrong with "Mother or Parent 1" and "Mother or Parent 2"?

[yellowcanine]

75. I know several LGBT families. They use the terms Mom and Dad.

I have never heard anyone refer to Parent 1 and Parent 2. Momma (first name) and Momma _____, yes. Or Daddy ____ and Daddy _____ . I know it is a government document but how sterile do you want it to be? Why not print them as Mother/Father and Mother/Father and then one circles the preferred term? I really wonder how much of a real issue this is or is it a bs issue? And like it or not, there is such a thing as "choose your battles." Better to get same-sex marriage solidified as the law of the land and then worry about changing government documents.

[kelliekat44]

80. Her detractors will lurch for anything. I agree with you..nt

[bvf]

92. Heh.

I know several LGBT families. They use the terms Mom and Dad.

Calling bullshit on this. Unless you can prove it, it stinks to high heaven.

[yellowcanine]

93. Okay you called bs so it can't possibly be true.

Because you know.

[bvf]

94. Anyone can make unprovable assertions.

When it boils down to, "I know X who does Y" in an attempt to make some point--especially a political one--I tend to be skeptical.

[yellowcanine]

95. It was a personal observation, not an "unprovable assertion"

You chose to question my observation because it did not fit with your experience or (more likely) your bias. So be it. "You tend to be skeptical." Yes, "know it alls" usually do.

[bvf]

97. Wrong.

Was it a statement of fact? Yes. That makes it an assertion.

Can you prove it? No. That means it's unprovable.

Need any more vocabulary help?

[yellowcanine]

99. "Need any more vocabulary help?" Not from you, thanks.

[NealK]

82. K&R

[sabrina 1]

98. And for Fox? How sad!