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Even Ronald Reagan supported the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, yet Bernie opposed it (Original Post) Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 OP
OP #12 Scootaloo Oct 2015 #1
Yeah, that D- rating from the NRA is such a thing to hide from. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #2
The NRA will give a shitty rating to anyone Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #4
Keep telling yourself that. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #9
The NRA of 2015 would've given the NRA of 1970 an F. NuclearDem Oct 2015 #18
He Has Explained Himself Repeatedly - Go Do Your Homework cantbeserious Oct 2015 #3
He needs to APOLOGIZE for it, not give bullshit "explanations." nt SunSeeker Oct 2015 #8
Why? Fawke Em Oct 2015 #11
Because his bullshit explanations legitimize opposition to gun control. nt SunSeeker Oct 2015 #14
Because apologizing would be like an admission of guilt in their eyes. aidbo Oct 2015 #22
Only HRC Gives Poor Explanations - Go Watch All Her Excuses For The Iraq War Vote cantbeserious Oct 2015 #12
Hill's vote killed not one soul. Bush abused his authority by ordering out oasis Oct 2015 #36
HRC Is Morally Culpable For The Death Of Thousands - Her Republican Instincts Followed The Herd cantbeserious Oct 2015 #37
Follow that logic and it will lead you to the OP of this thread. oasis Oct 2015 #39
Hardly - HRC Is Defined By One Thing - And One Thing Only - Unbridled Ambition To Be President cantbeserious Oct 2015 #40
"Hardly"-For Sure-Hardly On Topic oasis Oct 2015 #43
For Sure - Always On Topic - HRC Cares About Only One Thing - Being President - To Hell With The 99% cantbeserious Oct 2015 #48
Much the way I feel. Blix was literally crying as he begged bush for more time. Hoyt Oct 2015 #54
An important point concerning any Democrat's IRW vote, but oasis Oct 2015 #56
And she still has not apologized for the welfare reform bill LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #51
HRC - The Finest Candidate Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Could Hope For cantbeserious Oct 2015 #52
i sisn't know she was President then? Must have missed something. kelliekat44 Oct 2015 #64
He doesn't have to hide from his record on gun control. His record is good. Autumn Oct 2015 #5
Still wondering what HRC's stance is jkbRN Oct 2015 #6
I can tell you what her stance was in 2008 tularetom Oct 2015 #13
I've been reading up on it, jkbRN Oct 2015 #19
When you find it, can you let the author of this OP know? nt artislife Oct 2015 #23
Of course, jkbRN Oct 2015 #34
She's done some bad, she's done some good...nt artislife Oct 2015 #44
Same with Bernie n/t jkbRN Oct 2015 #45
Yup nt artislife Oct 2015 #47
I'm voting Turbineguy Oct 2015 #7
Ha!! artislife Oct 2015 #24
Please spend some time calling out Repubs safeinOhio Oct 2015 #10
Sanders is not a Democrat. nt SunSeeker Oct 2015 #15
Yes he is a safeinOhio Oct 2015 #16
Bernie Sanders is not a member of the Democratic Party. nt Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #17
You mean he isn't Third Way® AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #27
Very true again! WIProgressive88 Oct 2015 #28
He's running for the Democratic nomination. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #49
Well said! Thank you! WIProgressive88 Oct 2015 #26
It must really suck to be relegated to repeating the same 6 or 7 stories ad nauseum AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #20
It the only issue they think they have any tractio on. nt artislife Oct 2015 #25
Nobody cares except for a handful of Clinton supporters. MindfulOne Oct 2015 #21
I was at an Albertsons in Winter Park, FL when Reagan was shot. DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2015 #29
The Brady Bill passed anyway. Eric J in MN Oct 2015 #30
Voting against the Brady Bill is a hugh negative to me, with the number of deaths by gun violence Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #31
Did Reagan support the war that slaughtered 224,000 innocent brown people? Hillary did. last1standing Oct 2015 #32
Are you implying Hillary doesn't care about the lives of brown people? oasis Oct 2015 #53
I'm stating that Hillary voted to start a war that slaughtered 224,000 innocent brown people. last1standing Oct 2015 #55
First of all. Hill's vote was not to start a war. oasis Oct 2015 #57
Hillary voted to authorize a war that slaughtered 224,000 innocent brown people. last1standing Oct 2015 #59
Since you're on record with this Hillary vs."brown people" thing oasis Oct 2015 #60
That's not the question treestar Oct 2015 #63
Werd Sisterwife15 Oct 2015 #68
I said this in one of the other several threads about this subject, but I'll say it again here... WIProgressive88 Oct 2015 #33
If you want to go body count vs. body count, Vinca Oct 2015 #35
And Bernie's vote didn't kill anyone since the Brady Bill passed- Hillary's vote otoh... beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #38
And Hillary voted for the Iraq War. nt Live and Learn Oct 2015 #41
Why are you attacking a pro-gun control Dem candidate instead of pro-NRA Republicans? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #42
This makes him an even more viable candidate in the GE TransitJohn Oct 2015 #46
Not for me. Koinos Oct 2015 #65
nope ibegurpard Oct 2015 #50
America is a worldwide laughingstock when it comes to our gun culture Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #58
If you care so much why not go after the NRA shills instead of a pro-gun control Dem candidate? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #62
Not with the general public I associate with. Koinos Oct 2015 #66
ermergerd cherokeeprogressive Oct 2015 #61
LOL! MindfulOne Oct 2015 #67
 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
4. The NRA will give a shitty rating to anyone
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:03 PM
Oct 2015

who doesn't support handing assault rifles out to children.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
11. Why?
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:07 PM
Oct 2015

Because SunSeeker and Cali Democrat demand it or they'll throw another hissy fit?

If you don't want to vote for him because you don't like something he didn't favor 20+ years ago in lieu of all the other progressive issues he has supported since he was mayor of Burlington, VT, then that's your problem.

 

aidbo

(2,328 posts)
22. Because apologizing would be like an admission of guilt in their eyes.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:41 PM
Oct 2015

Getting one's opponent to apologize for something (anything) is seen as a 'win' in the eyes of unsophisticated people.

The one apologizing is seen as below them morally, because otherwise why would they be apologizing? The one who forced the apology gets to feel smug and self satisfied and morally superior. They are seen as the righteous vindicator calling for the person who did wrong to prostrate his/her self in atonement. And if their opponent does not obey their pronouncement and apologize, they still have the moral high ground because then they can call the opponent an unapologetic ________ (fill in blank situationally).

I wouldn't be surprised if some folks on the board have called for Hillary to apologize for her Iraq war vote.

One could argue about the differences between voting against a bill that eventually passed and voting for a war resolution that gave arguably the worst president in recent memory the authority to start a war that went on to kill thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children. Or one could just call loudly and forcefully for their opponent to apologize.

My suggestion for the folks bothered by this kind of thing:

cantbeserious

(13,039 posts)
12. Only HRC Gives Poor Explanations - Go Watch All Her Excuses For The Iraq War Vote
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:07 PM
Oct 2015

How many people did that vote kill?

oasis

(49,152 posts)
36. Hill's vote killed not one soul. Bush abused his authority by ordering out
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 02:23 PM
Oct 2015

Hans Blix and the UN weapons inspectors. Bush became impatient with their inability to turn up any WMD, so he jumped the gun. Hillary, Kerry, Biden and the rest who signed the IRW were blindsided. Those who didn't sign, good on them, but I don't remember any congress person saying they didn't sign because they feared a Bush double cross.

You Bernie folk like to crow about you're the 99%. Here's another 99% figure for you:

99% of Americans blame the Iraq War on Bush Cheney.

cantbeserious

(13,039 posts)
48. For Sure - Always On Topic - HRC Cares About Only One Thing - Being President - To Hell With The 99%
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 02:57 PM
Oct 2015

We are just pawns to fulfill her ambition.

I would not trust the woman to do anything, much less to run the country.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
54. Much the way I feel. Blix was literally crying as he begged bush for more time.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 04:19 PM
Oct 2015

The Iraq Resolution gave bush authority "if needed." It wasn't. Many Doves voted for the Resolution to give bush some leverage. He abused it.

oasis

(49,152 posts)
56. An important point concerning any Democrat's IRW vote, but
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 04:32 PM
Oct 2015

conveniently dismissed by the anti-Hillary crowd.

LiberalArkie

(15,686 posts)
51. And she still has not apologized for the welfare reform bill
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 03:53 PM
Oct 2015

and repeal of all go the banking regs, and rewrite of the bankruptcy laws. But you say she wasn't in office. But she was Bill and Hillary were proud of the "You get 2 for the price of one". She was Bill's co-president and proud of it. I do not think she has ever said anything bad about trying to push for all those changes.

 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
64. i sisn't know she was President then? Must have missed something.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 07:43 PM
Oct 2015

And Bill actually thought they would be able to go bACK and correct the main problems but the GOP wouldn't play ball. Monica scandal and other stuff got in the way. Welfare to work was not a bad idea during that time when there were jobs. Quite a few women benefited from some of the reforms. Still the way it was enforced hurt a lot of people.

Autumn

(44,762 posts)
5. He doesn't have to hide from his record on gun control. His record is good.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:03 PM
Oct 2015

Hillary should come out and unequivocally apologize for her IWR vote to the millions who were killed and maimed.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
13. I can tell you what her stance was in 2008
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:12 PM
Oct 2015

According to Obama, she sounded like Annie Oakley. She bragged about her hunting experiences, and ridiculed Obama for a remark he made about people "clinging" to guns.


Of course that was 7 years ago, and she has "evolved" a lot since then. She has probably evolved some more since last week, or since she brushed her teeth this morning. Evolving is her forte.

jkbRN

(850 posts)
19. I've been reading up on it,
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:32 PM
Oct 2015

And I am still waiting for the difference b/t her and Bernie. All she does is complain about the NRA, call for sensible gun control legislation, background checks at guns shows, and banning assault rifles... Same as Bernie.

jkbRN

(850 posts)
34. Of course,
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 02:13 PM
Oct 2015
Clinton has publicly said she will fight for "common sense" gun reforms. In 2013, she backed bipartisan legislation requiring universal background checks on gun purchases.

"I know that gun ownership is part of the fabric of a lot of law abiding communities," Clinton told the U.S. Conference of Mayors in San Francisco following the Charleston shooting. "I also know that we can have common sense gun reforms that keep weapons out of the hands of criminals and the violently unstable while respecting responsible gun owners."


Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/2016-candidates-gun-control-stances-2015-6

As Hillary Clinton mulls running for president in 2016, she has been careful to shy away from broad, sweeping policy declarations. But not when she delivered harsh criticism of gun culture in America and denounced the idea that "anybody can have a gun, anywhere, at any time." Clinton didn't dispute Americans' right to own guns. But she said access to guns in the U.S. had grown "way out of balance."

"We've got to rein in what has become an almost article of faith that anybody can have a gun anywhere, anytime," she said. "And I don't believe that is in the best interest of the vast majority of people."

Citing a number of shootings that arose from minor arguments over loud music or texting, she drew a comparison: "That's what happens in the countries I've visited where there is no rule of law and no self-control." She added: "That is something that we cannot just let go without paying attention."


Q: Both you and Sen. Obama, in the past, have supported strong gun control measures. But now when I listen to you on the campaign, I hear you emphasizing that you believe in an individual’s right to bear arms. Both of you were strong advocates for licensing of guns. Both of you were strong advocates for the registration of guns. Why don’t you emphasize that now?

CLINTON: I respect the Second Amendment. I respect the rights of lawful gun owners to own guns, to use their guns, but I also believe that most lawful gun owners whom I have spoken with for many years across our country also want to be sure that we keep those guns out of the wrong hands. And as president, I will work to try to bridge this divide, which I think has been polarizing and, frankly, doesn’t reflect the common sense of the American people. We will strike the right balance to protect the constitutional right but to give people the feeling & the reality that they will be protected from guns in the wrong hands.


Q: Do you support the DC handgun ban?
A: I want to give local communities the authority over determining how to keep their citizens safe. This case you’re referring to is before the Supreme Court.
Q: But what do you support?
A: I support sensible regulation that is consistent with the constitutional right to own and bear arms.
Q: Is the DC ban consistent with that right?
A: I think a total ban, with no exceptions under any circumstances, might be found by the court not to be. But DC or anybody else [should be able to] come up with sensible regulations to protect their people.
Q: But do you still favor licensing and registration of handguns?
A: What I favor is what works in NY. We have one set of rules in NYC and a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state. What might work in NYC is certainly not going to work in Montana. So, for the federal government to be having any kind of blanket rules that they’re going to try to impose, I think doesn’t make sense.


Source: http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm

In 2000, while campaigning for a Senate seat in New York, Clinton supported legislation sponsored by Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) to license hand guns with photo-IDs.

In the 2003 memoir "Living History," then-Sen. Clinton wrote that after the 1999 Columbine shootings, she and Bill Clinton proposed raising the legal age of handgun ownership to 21.


During her 2008 presidential campaign, Clinton appeared to move to the center on guns -- especially after then-Sen. Obama's remarks that "people cling to guns or religion" went public.

Aiming to appeal to more rural and moderate Democrats, she talked frequently on the campaign trail about how her father taught her to shoot and said hunting and shooting were "part of our culture" and "a way of life" in America.

At a 2008 Democratic primary debate in Las Vegas, Clinton backed off a national licensing registration plan, saying "I don't want the federal government preempting states and cities like New York that have very specific problems."

She said she believes in people's rights to bear arms and that she doesn't see "a contradiction between protecting 2nd Amendment rights’ and the effort to reduce crime."


She summarized her thoughts in a 2008 primary debate in Philadelphia:

"I respect the 2nd Amendment. I respect the rights of lawful gun owners to own guns, to use their guns," she said. "But I also believe that most lawful gun owners whom I have spoken with for many years across our country also want to be sure that we keep those guns out of the wrong hands. And as president, I will work to try to bridge this divide, which I think has been polarizing and, frankly, doesn’t reflect the common sense of the American people."


In 2014 at a CNN town hall, she told an audience member she thinks reinstating the assault weapons ban and a ban high-capacity magazines would help limit gun violence.

"I was disappointed that the Congress did not pass universal background checks after the horrors of the shootings at Sandy Hook," she said.


Aiming to appeal to more rural and moderate Democrats, she talked frequently on the campaign trail about how her father taught her to shoot and said hunting and shooting were "part of our culture" and "a way of life" in America.

At a 2008 Democratic primary debate in Las Vegas, Clinton backed off a national licensing registration plan, saying "I don't want the federal government preempting states and cities like New York that have very specific problems."


She voted to extend for 10 years an assault weapons ban and supported federal criminal background checks for major gun shows. She later said at a 2008 Democratic primary debate that she'd fight for reinstating the assault weapons ban.


Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/27/hillary-clinton-is-the-new-standard-bearer-for-gun-control-so-lets-look-at-her-record/

safeinOhio

(32,531 posts)
10. Please spend some time calling out Repubs
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:07 PM
Oct 2015

This kind of attack does our party no good.

Why not just point out the good your favorite person has done and leave other Democrats alone..they are not the enemy.

WIProgressive88

(314 posts)
26. Well said! Thank you!
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:44 PM
Oct 2015

As far as Bernie not being a Democrat, as other posters are noting in response to your post, who cares? Policy is what matters, not party. I like Hillary, but I am far closer to Bernie on policy matters; I really don't care about his party identification.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
20. It must really suck to be relegated to repeating the same 6 or 7 stories ad nauseum
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:38 PM
Oct 2015

Seriously. Do you expect a different result everytime you post the same thing?

 

MindfulOne

(227 posts)
21. Nobody cares except for a handful of Clinton supporters.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:40 PM
Oct 2015

And, Bernie has very sound reasons for opposing the bill.

Most of America is on his side with respect to common-sense gun control, and the NRA gives him failing scores.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,705 posts)
29. I was at an Albertsons in Winter Park, FL when Reagan was shot.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:44 PM
Oct 2015

They sold mini tvs and , of course, it was on all the channels. It's a well written and persuasive editorial.

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
30. The Brady Bill passed anyway.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:45 PM
Oct 2015

"Signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 30, 1993."

I disagree with Sanders' vote against the Brady Bill, but his vote didn't hurt the country since the bill passed, anyway.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
31. Voting against the Brady Bill is a hugh negative to me, with the number of deaths by gun violence
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:53 PM
Oct 2015

it is a bad vote. In fact, the Brady Bill needs to be expanded. Even with a rating of "D" is too high with what our nation is dealing with today. He also voted to nullify any liability action on gun manufactures, another bad vote. Does he go to the families who are losing loved ones and giving his explanation and it makes everything good with these families?

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
32. Did Reagan support the war that slaughtered 224,000 innocent brown people? Hillary did.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 01:57 PM
Oct 2015

Do you think Hillary can hide from her maniacal vote to send thousands of guns and bombs to Iraq to slaughter innocent brown people?

Or are those lives not important for some reason. I know they're brown but surely that wouldn't be it. Would it?

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
55. I'm stating that Hillary voted to start a war that slaughtered 224,000 innocent brown people.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 04:28 PM
Oct 2015

Did you not know that?

oasis

(49,152 posts)
57. First of all. Hill's vote was not to start a war.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 04:41 PM
Oct 2015

Let's get that straight. Secondly, it's unfortunate anyone had to die in that war, brown, black, yellow, red or white. I'm talking about horrible casualties on both sides of Bush/Cheney's war which was a result of their deceit of the American public.

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
59. Hillary voted to authorize a war that slaughtered 224,000 innocent brown people.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 05:11 PM
Oct 2015

You know it's true, I know it's true, and everyone on this board knows it's true.

Why are you trying to deny that she voted to start a war that slaughtered 224,000 innocent brown people?

oasis

(49,152 posts)
60. Since you're on record with this Hillary vs."brown people" thing
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 05:32 PM
Oct 2015

I guess you won't be part of any future discussions regarding Hillary and a possible showdown with Putin and the Russian people. Not with the expectation of anyone taking you serious, that is.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
63. That's not the question
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 07:34 PM
Oct 2015

you're merely changing the subject. Hillary is vulnerable on this. But this OP is about BS.

WIProgressive88

(314 posts)
33. I said this in one of the other several threads about this subject, but I'll say it again here...
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 02:12 PM
Oct 2015

Bernie is, overall, very solid when it comes to gun control. He has for sure taken some votes I don't necessarily agree with, but that's okay. I love President Obama as well, and there are certainly issues that I don't agree with him on either. I don't look for the perfect candidate because there isn't one. The bottom line for me is that Bernie is right far more often than he is not, and he is correct on the issues more than any other candidate in this election, and that is why I will vote for him. Acknowledging that he is not perfect, and that he has not always voted the way that I would have personally, does not weaken my support for him.

Vinca

(50,170 posts)
35. If you want to go body count vs. body count,
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 02:14 PM
Oct 2015

one candidate voted for the Iraq war and the other didn't.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
42. Why are you attacking a pro-gun control Dem candidate instead of pro-NRA Republicans?
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 02:41 PM
Oct 2015

If you really cared about this issue you would focus on the real enemies instead of digging up Ronnie.

Sanders Votes for Background Checks, Assault Weapons Ban

WASHINGTON, April 17 – Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today voted for expanded background checks on gun buyers and for a ban on assault weapons but the Senate rejected those central planks of legislation inspired by the shootings of 20 first-grade students and six teachers in Newtown, Conn.

“Nobody believes that gun control by itself is going to end the horrors we have seen in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., Blacksburg, Va., Tucson, Ariz. and other American communities,” Sanders said. “There is a growing consensus, however, in Vermont and across America that we have got to do as much as we can to end the cold-blooded, mass murders of innocent people. I believe very strongly that we also have got to address the mental health crisis in our country and make certain that help is available for people who may be a danger to themselves and others,” Sanders added.

The amendment on expanded background checks needed 60 votes to pass but only 54 senators voted for it. “To my mind it makes common sense to keep these weapons out of the hands of people with criminal records or mental health histories,” Sanders said.

Under current federal law, background checks are not performed for tens of thousands of sales – up to 40 percent of all gun transfers – at gun shows or over the Internet. The amendment would have required background checks for all gun sales in commercial settings regardless of whether the seller is a licensed dealer. The compromise proposal would have exempted sales between “family, friends, and neighbors.”

In a separate roll call, the Senate rejected a proposal to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. That proposal was defeated by a vote of 60 to 40.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban
 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
58. America is a worldwide laughingstock when it comes to our gun culture
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 05:09 PM
Oct 2015

The rest of the world points and laughs at American stupidity.

Koinos

(2,792 posts)
66. Not with the general public I associate with.
Sun Oct 4, 2015, 07:59 PM
Oct 2015

I stand with O'Malley on gun control.

He is the only 100% gun control candidate in this primary.

And he stood up to the NRA in Maryland.

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