2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumEven Ronald Reagan supported the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, yet Bernie opposed it
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/opinion/why-i-m-for-the-brady-bill.htmlBernie won't be able to hide from his record on gun control.
He needs to come out and apologize unequivocally for opposing the Brady bill.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)who doesn't support handing assault rifles out to children.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)They're completely batshit.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
SunSeeker
(51,377 posts)Because SunSeeker and Cali Democrat demand it or they'll throw another hissy fit?
If you don't want to vote for him because you don't like something he didn't favor 20+ years ago in lieu of all the other progressive issues he has supported since he was mayor of Burlington, VT, then that's your problem.
SunSeeker
(51,377 posts)aidbo
(2,328 posts)Getting one's opponent to apologize for something (anything) is seen as a 'win' in the eyes of unsophisticated people.
The one apologizing is seen as below them morally, because otherwise why would they be apologizing? The one who forced the apology gets to feel smug and self satisfied and morally superior. They are seen as the righteous vindicator calling for the person who did wrong to prostrate his/her self in atonement. And if their opponent does not obey their pronouncement and apologize, they still have the moral high ground because then they can call the opponent an unapologetic ________ (fill in blank situationally).
I wouldn't be surprised if some folks on the board have called for Hillary to apologize for her Iraq war vote.
One could argue about the differences between voting against a bill that eventually passed and voting for a war resolution that gave arguably the worst president in recent memory the authority to start a war that went on to kill thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children. Or one could just call loudly and forcefully for their opponent to apologize.
My suggestion for the folks bothered by this kind of thing:
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)How many people did that vote kill?
oasis
(49,152 posts)Hans Blix and the UN weapons inspectors. Bush became impatient with their inability to turn up any WMD, so he jumped the gun. Hillary, Kerry, Biden and the rest who signed the IRW were blindsided. Those who didn't sign, good on them, but I don't remember any congress person saying they didn't sign because they feared a Bush double cross.
You Bernie folk like to crow about you're the 99%. Here's another 99% figure for you:
99% of Americans blame the Iraq War on Bush Cheney.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
oasis
(49,152 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
oasis
(49,152 posts)eom
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)We are just pawns to fulfill her ambition.
I would not trust the woman to do anything, much less to run the country.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)The Iraq Resolution gave bush authority "if needed." It wasn't. Many Doves voted for the Resolution to give bush some leverage. He abused it.
oasis
(49,152 posts)conveniently dismissed by the anti-Hillary crowd.
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)and repeal of all go the banking regs, and rewrite of the bankruptcy laws. But you say she wasn't in office. But she was Bill and Hillary were proud of the "You get 2 for the price of one". She was Bill's co-president and proud of it. I do not think she has ever said anything bad about trying to push for all those changes.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)And Bill actually thought they would be able to go bACK and correct the main problems but the GOP wouldn't play ball. Monica scandal and other stuff got in the way. Welfare to work was not a bad idea during that time when there were jobs. Quite a few women benefited from some of the reforms. Still the way it was enforced hurt a lot of people.
Autumn
(44,762 posts)Hillary should come out and unequivocally apologize for her IWR vote to the millions who were killed and maimed.
jkbRN
(850 posts)When it comes to gun control policy. Anyone that has info, link it.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)According to Obama, she sounded like Annie Oakley. She bragged about her hunting experiences, and ridiculed Obama for a remark he made about people "clinging" to guns.
Of course that was 7 years ago, and she has "evolved" a lot since then. She has probably evolved some more since last week, or since she brushed her teeth this morning. Evolving is her forte.
jkbRN
(850 posts)And I am still waiting for the difference b/t her and Bernie. All she does is complain about the NRA, call for sensible gun control legislation, background checks at guns shows, and banning assault rifles... Same as Bernie.
artislife
(9,497 posts)"I know that gun ownership is part of the fabric of a lot of law abiding communities," Clinton told the U.S. Conference of Mayors in San Francisco following the Charleston shooting. "I also know that we can have common sense gun reforms that keep weapons out of the hands of criminals and the violently unstable while respecting responsible gun owners."
Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/2016-candidates-gun-control-stances-2015-6
"We've got to rein in what has become an almost article of faith that anybody can have a gun anywhere, anytime," she said. "And I don't believe that is in the best interest of the vast majority of people."
Citing a number of shootings that arose from minor arguments over loud music or texting, she drew a comparison: "That's what happens in the countries I've visited where there is no rule of law and no self-control." She added: "That is something that we cannot just let go without paying attention."
CLINTON: I respect the Second Amendment. I respect the rights of lawful gun owners to own guns, to use their guns, but I also believe that most lawful gun owners whom I have spoken with for many years across our country also want to be sure that we keep those guns out of the wrong hands. And as president, I will work to try to bridge this divide, which I think has been polarizing and, frankly, doesnt reflect the common sense of the American people. We will strike the right balance to protect the constitutional right but to give people the feeling & the reality that they will be protected from guns in the wrong hands.
A: I want to give local communities the authority over determining how to keep their citizens safe. This case youre referring to is before the Supreme Court.
Q: But what do you support?
A: I support sensible regulation that is consistent with the constitutional right to own and bear arms.
Q: Is the DC ban consistent with that right?
A: I think a total ban, with no exceptions under any circumstances, might be found by the court not to be. But DC or anybody else [should be able to] come up with sensible regulations to protect their people.
Q: But do you still favor licensing and registration of handguns?
A: What I favor is what works in NY. We have one set of rules in NYC and a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state. What might work in NYC is certainly not going to work in Montana. So, for the federal government to be having any kind of blanket rules that theyre going to try to impose, I think doesnt make sense.
Source: http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm
In the 2003 memoir "Living History," then-Sen. Clinton wrote that after the 1999 Columbine shootings, she and Bill Clinton proposed raising the legal age of handgun ownership to 21.
Aiming to appeal to more rural and moderate Democrats, she talked frequently on the campaign trail about how her father taught her to shoot and said hunting and shooting were "part of our culture" and "a way of life" in America.
At a 2008 Democratic primary debate in Las Vegas, Clinton backed off a national licensing registration plan, saying "I don't want the federal government preempting states and cities like New York that have very specific problems."
She said she believes in people's rights to bear arms and that she doesn't see "a contradiction between protecting 2nd Amendment rights and the effort to reduce crime."
"I respect the 2nd Amendment. I respect the rights of lawful gun owners to own guns, to use their guns," she said. "But I also believe that most lawful gun owners whom I have spoken with for many years across our country also want to be sure that we keep those guns out of the wrong hands. And as president, I will work to try to bridge this divide, which I think has been polarizing and, frankly, doesnt reflect the common sense of the American people."
"I was disappointed that the Congress did not pass universal background checks after the horrors of the shootings at Sandy Hook," she said.
At a 2008 Democratic primary debate in Las Vegas, Clinton backed off a national licensing registration plan, saying "I don't want the federal government preempting states and cities like New York that have very specific problems."
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/27/hillary-clinton-is-the-new-standard-bearer-for-gun-control-so-lets-look-at-her-record/
artislife
(9,497 posts)jkbRN
(850 posts)Turbineguy
(37,212 posts)for Reagan. He'd probably be a better president dead than when he was alive anyway.
safeinOhio
(32,531 posts)This kind of attack does our party no good.
Why not just point out the good your favorite person has done and leave other Democrats alone..they are not the enemy.
SunSeeker
(51,377 posts)safeinOhio
(32,531 posts)Democratic Socialist. Doesn't get much better than that.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)WIProgressive88
(314 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)WIProgressive88
(314 posts)As far as Bernie not being a Democrat, as other posters are noting in response to your post, who cares? Policy is what matters, not party. I like Hillary, but I am far closer to Bernie on policy matters; I really don't care about his party identification.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Seriously. Do you expect a different result everytime you post the same thing?
artislife
(9,497 posts)MindfulOne
(227 posts)And, Bernie has very sound reasons for opposing the bill.
Most of America is on his side with respect to common-sense gun control, and the NRA gives him failing scores.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,705 posts)They sold mini tvs and , of course, it was on all the channels. It's a well written and persuasive editorial.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)"Signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 30, 1993."
I disagree with Sanders' vote against the Brady Bill, but his vote didn't hurt the country since the bill passed, anyway.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)it is a bad vote. In fact, the Brady Bill needs to be expanded. Even with a rating of "D" is too high with what our nation is dealing with today. He also voted to nullify any liability action on gun manufactures, another bad vote. Does he go to the families who are losing loved ones and giving his explanation and it makes everything good with these families?
last1standing
(11,709 posts)Do you think Hillary can hide from her maniacal vote to send thousands of guns and bombs to Iraq to slaughter innocent brown people?
Or are those lives not important for some reason. I know they're brown but surely that wouldn't be it. Would it?
oasis
(49,152 posts)last1standing
(11,709 posts)Did you not know that?
oasis
(49,152 posts)Let's get that straight. Secondly, it's unfortunate anyone had to die in that war, brown, black, yellow, red or white. I'm talking about horrible casualties on both sides of Bush/Cheney's war which was a result of their deceit of the American public.
last1standing
(11,709 posts)You know it's true, I know it's true, and everyone on this board knows it's true.
Why are you trying to deny that she voted to start a war that slaughtered 224,000 innocent brown people?
oasis
(49,152 posts)I guess you won't be part of any future discussions regarding Hillary and a possible showdown with Putin and the Russian people. Not with the expectation of anyone taking you serious, that is.
treestar
(82,383 posts)you're merely changing the subject. Hillary is vulnerable on this. But this OP is about BS.
Sisterwife15
(21 posts)WIProgressive88
(314 posts)Bernie is, overall, very solid when it comes to gun control. He has for sure taken some votes I don't necessarily agree with, but that's okay. I love President Obama as well, and there are certainly issues that I don't agree with him on either. I don't look for the perfect candidate because there isn't one. The bottom line for me is that Bernie is right far more often than he is not, and he is correct on the issues more than any other candidate in this election, and that is why I will vote for him. Acknowledging that he is not perfect, and that he has not always voted the way that I would have personally, does not weaken my support for him.
Vinca
(50,170 posts)one candidate voted for the Iraq war and the other didn't.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)If you really cared about this issue you would focus on the real enemies instead of digging up Ronnie.
WASHINGTON, April 17 Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today voted for expanded background checks on gun buyers and for a ban on assault weapons but the Senate rejected those central planks of legislation inspired by the shootings of 20 first-grade students and six teachers in Newtown, Conn.
Nobody believes that gun control by itself is going to end the horrors we have seen in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., Blacksburg, Va., Tucson, Ariz. and other American communities, Sanders said. There is a growing consensus, however, in Vermont and across America that we have got to do as much as we can to end the cold-blooded, mass murders of innocent people. I believe very strongly that we also have got to address the mental health crisis in our country and make certain that help is available for people who may be a danger to themselves and others, Sanders added.
The amendment on expanded background checks needed 60 votes to pass but only 54 senators voted for it. To my mind it makes common sense to keep these weapons out of the hands of people with criminal records or mental health histories, Sanders said.
Under current federal law, background checks are not performed for tens of thousands of sales up to 40 percent of all gun transfers at gun shows or over the Internet. The amendment would have required background checks for all gun sales in commercial settings regardless of whether the seller is a licensed dealer. The compromise proposal would have exempted sales between family, friends, and neighbors.
In a separate roll call, the Senate rejected a proposal to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. That proposal was defeated by a vote of 60 to 40.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)Koinos
(2,792 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Bernie ' s record on gun control is fine and lines up perfectly with the general public.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)The rest of the world points and laughs at American stupidity.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Koinos
(2,792 posts)I stand with O'Malley on gun control.
He is the only 100% gun control candidate in this primary.
And he stood up to the NRA in Maryland.