2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie's message to 'Urban America": Respect rural gun culture.
"I can understand if some Democrats or Republicans represent an urban area where people don't hunt, don't do target practice, they're not into guns," Sanders continued. "But in my state, people go hunting and do target practice. Talking about cultural divides in this country, you know, it is important for people in urban America to understand that families go out together and kids go out together and they hunt and enjoy the outdoors, and that is a lifestyle that should not be condemned."
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/10/02/npr-bernie-sanders-gun-control
reformist2
(9,841 posts)brush
(53,735 posts)They hunt with shotguns and rifles which should no one is called for banning as they can also be used for home protection.
People in urban areas don't want to hear what seems like excuses for the gun industry which keeps churning out millions of handguns and assault rifles that are designed for nothing but shooting PEOPLE, not game.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)rifles and shotguns. Those in semi-rural and rural environments know exactly what I'm talking about.
You don't hunt with a damn handgun, or with a damn assault rifle.
If you want home protection, anybody staring down the barrel of a shotgun is going to wet their pants.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)Voted YES on prohibiting suing gunmakers & sellers for gun misuse.
Vote to pass a bill that would prohibit liability lawsuits from being brought against gun manufacturers and dealers based on the criminal misuse of firearms. The bill would also block these actions from being brought up against gun trade organizations and against ammunition makers and sellers. The measure would apply immediately to any pending cases. Several specific exceptions to the ban exist. This includes civil suits would be allowed against a maker or dealer who "knowingly and willfully violated" state or federal laws in the selling or marketing of a weapon. Design and manufacturing defect lawsuits are also permitted when weapons are "used as intended.
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill HR 1036 ; vote number 2003-124 on Apr 9, 2003
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)smilingwen
(52 posts)against gun makers because someone misuses them is like suing auto companies when a driver decides to drive off a cliff. Criminal misuse can be perpetrated by a hammer if you hit someone over the head with it. Bernie was right to vote against it.
He has voted FOR banning assault weapons and FOR background checks.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)The NRA gives Bernie a D+ rating. And some people in this country do, in fact, hunt, sometimes in order to feed their families.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts).. bunch of straight up assholes.
Somehow D+ is something to tout?!
and it was political they rated him THAT low... people know that ...
the NRA won him his first election to office... we know that too.
I pray Bernie isn't trying to distance himself from his stance on guns now...
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)It didn't make any sense.
As to your explanation: I am not privy to the decision-making process of the NRA, but I don't think they have an F- rating. Bernie's positions on gun control are generally consistent with those of most other Democrats, including Obama's and Hillary's - at least as she explained it in 2008, before the wind started blowing in a little different direction. In any event, a D- rating hardly qualifies one as a gun nut (I made a mistake in my original post; Sanders got a D-, not a D+).
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)...
Reference: Bill introduced by McCollum, R-FL; Bill HR 2122 ; vote number 1999-244 on Jun 18, 1999
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)Gun Owners of America does, but they are even nuttier than the NRA.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Who would believe such idiocy?
Fearless
(18,421 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)"I have a profound respect for the traditions of hunting that trace back in this country for generations and I think those who dismiss that out of hand make a big mistake."
His comments come in the wake of the shootings last month in Newtown, Conn. The killing of 20 children in the town has spurred gun-control advocates to seek restriction on the ownership of certain firearms such as military-style assault rifles.
"Part of being able to move this forward is understanding the reality of guns in urban areas are very different from the realities of guns in rural areas. And if you grew up and your dad gave you a hunting rifle when you were ten, and you went out and spent the day with him and your uncles, and that became part of your family's traditions, you can see why you'd be pretty protective of that.
"So it's trying to bridge those gaps that I think is going to be part of the biggest task over the next several months. And that means that advocates of gun control have to do a little more listening than they do sometimes."
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/01/27/170393072/gun-control-advocates-should-listen-more-obama-says
Yesterday, Clinton hit Obama for calling Pennsylvanians "bitter," ground on which he fairly ably engaged.
Today, she's onto the other half of his San Francisco remarks, in which he linked economic frustration to clinging to religion and guns (the part he sought to walk back this morning in Muncie, Ind.).
"Sen. Obama's remarks are elitist, and they are out of touch," Clinton said. "The people of faith I know don't 'cling to' religion because they're bitter. ... I also disagree with Sen. Obama's assertion that people in this country 'cling to guns' and have certain attitudes about immigration or trade simply out of frustration. People of all walks of life hunt and they enjoy doing so because it's an important part of their life, not because they are bitter."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/04/hillary-hits-obama-on-faith-guns-007747
But Clinton hasnt always been so forceful in her fight for gun control. As the Post highlights, Clinton has dramatically shifted her tone on gun control since the 2008 campaign. While Clinton touted her husbands record record on gun control (former President Bill Clinton signed into the law an assault weapons ban that has since lapsed) she also heralded personal memories of learning to shoot with her father and defend gun ownership, saying, there is not a contradiction between protecting Second Amendment rights and the effort to reduce crime.
You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl, Clinton said while campaigning ahead of the Indiana primary, where white working class Democrats propelled her to a narrow victory over then-Sen. Barack Obama. You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. Its part of culture. Its part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because its an important part of who they are. Not because they are bitter, she continued, in a dig at Obamas remark at a fundraiser that disenfranchised Americans often cling to cultural symbols like guns and religion.
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/10/hillary_clinton_goes_bold_on_gun_safety_but_she_sounded_a_different_note_in_2008/
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Guess which one got my vote in 2008?
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)tia
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Can you link to the specific part where it allows "gun corporations right to make a dangerous item more dangerous?"
Oh, and define "dangerous". Do you mean defective weapons or those that work as designed?
Tia!
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I accept your surrender!
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill HR 1036 ; vote number 2003-124 on Apr 9, 2003
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)I don't even KNOW anybody that isn't completely capable of shooting a rifle. Girls, Boys, we get rounded up at about 10 and taught how to operate Daddy's rifle.
It probably sounds weird to some, but we were taught safety, maintenance and operation.
None of the kids I knew then went on to shoot up a movie theater. Most don't even have a handgun because they are just a weapon, not a tool. Rifles are tools.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Out here they're a necessity.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)even in semi-rural neighborhoods. If you want to go out and just yell at a feral hog, or turn the water hose at it, that's just fine. I'll go get a rifle before it kills somebody, a pet or tears up the garden.
100lbs+ of tusked aggressive attitude in the backyard isn't going to end well if you try to convince it to "play nice".
We don't have coyotes here, but in some respects, I wish we would just to keep the damn feral pig population down.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Out here they have plenty to eat and the horses chase them out of the pasture when they get in.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)The donkey confronted the coyotes head on, flashing it's hooves and braying. Kicking in a 360° angle.
They are some hardy characters, and are loyal as heck.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Our gelding HATES coyotes, it's instinctual.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)doing so!
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... rural areas by the US government and don't have the same rights as rural people to own and operate guns so of course there's little perspective of them seeing their effects on the places urban folk live.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Could you explain this post that people "don't have the same rights as rural people to own and operate guns"?
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... does.
The 2A in its implementation is a whites only law
The effects of guns where I used to live is negative and blacks were kept away from rural area farming by the USDA lending practices so of course "urban people" (sigh... come on dude) don't have the same view on guns as rural folk
Aerows
(39,961 posts)as in waving rifles in the street is ridiculous.
How does that reflect on folks that keep long gun firearms to protect their homes and property from predators?
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)Suich
(10,642 posts)But I still have a huge problem with that sheriff.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Right now what we have is not working well, we need immediate action.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Ya can't get supertankers full of fail to fly. Stop trying.
baran
(92 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I wonder where he went?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Most people don't even eat the animals they kill.
They're slaughtered for no reason other than to satisfy the hunter's ego, much like how that dentist killed Cecil.
Fuckers.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Link?
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,576 posts)We had pheasant every Thanksgiving dinner when I was a kid. I'm not a fan of hunting myself, but I've known a lot of hunters and all of them hunt for meat, not for trophies. I absolutely agree that trophy hunting is disgusting, but most hunters are not trophy hunters. Very few people can afford to go to Africa to hunt elephants and lions; a lot of people can, and do, go out in the woods and hunt for pheasants and grouse to eat.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Even Zappaman thinks you are full of fail.
That's a first.
Unfortunately, I was responding to Sanders words.
I'm pretty fed up with "gun culture" these days.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)"I have a profound respect for the traditions of hunting that trace back in this country for generations and I think those who dismiss that out of hand make a big mistake."
His comments come in the wake of the shootings last month in Newtown, Conn. The killing of 20 children in the town has spurred gun-control advocates to seek restriction on the ownership of certain firearms such as military-style assault rifles.
"Part of being able to move this forward is understanding the reality of guns in urban areas are very different from the realities of guns in rural areas. And if you grew up and your dad gave you a hunting rifle when you were ten, and you went out and spent the day with him and your uncles, and that became part of your family's traditions, you can see why you'd be pretty protective of that.
"So it's trying to bridge those gaps that I think is going to be part of the biggest task over the next several months. And that means that advocates of gun control have to do a little more listening than they do sometimes."
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/01/27/170393072/gun-control-advocates-should-listen-more-obama-says
Yesterday, Clinton hit Obama for calling Pennsylvanians "bitter," ground on which he fairly ably engaged.
Today, she's onto the other half of his San Francisco remarks, in which he linked economic frustration to clinging to religion and guns (the part he sought to walk back this morning in Muncie, Ind.).
"Sen. Obama's remarks are elitist, and they are out of touch," Clinton said. "The people of faith I know don't 'cling to' religion because they're bitter. ... I also disagree with Sen. Obama's assertion that people in this country 'cling to guns' and have certain attitudes about immigration or trade simply out of frustration. People of all walks of life hunt and they enjoy doing so because it's an important part of their life, not because they are bitter."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/04/hillary-hits-obama-on-faith-guns-007747
But Clinton hasnt always been so forceful in her fight for gun control. As the Post highlights, Clinton has dramatically shifted her tone on gun control since the 2008 campaign. While Clinton touted her husbands record record on gun control (former President Bill Clinton signed into the law an assault weapons ban that has since lapsed) she also heralded personal memories of learning to shoot with her father and defend gun ownership, saying, there is not a contradiction between protecting Second Amendment rights and the effort to reduce crime.
You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl, Clinton said while campaigning ahead of the Indiana primary, where white working class Democrats propelled her to a narrow victory over then-Sen. Barack Obama. You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. Its part of culture. Its part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because its an important part of who they are. Not because they are bitter, she continued, in a dig at Obamas remark at a fundraiser that disenfranchised Americans often cling to cultural symbols like guns and religion.
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/10/hillary_clinton_goes_bold_on_gun_safety_but_she_sounded_a_different_note_in_2008/
zappaman
(20,606 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Hence the smilie...
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)just about everybody on DU, you sure hang around here a lot.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)no?
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Since I may not have been clear.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)They should be tools, not weapons.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)based a whole lot of bullshit.
I don't like gun-nuts but my hunting family are not gun nuts. They would be for sensible gun legislation. They would agree with Bernie.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)elleng
(130,714 posts)OMalley, a former mayor of Baltimore, called for four reforms on the national level: a ban on combat assault weapons; a requirement that those who purchase guns get licenses and be fingerprinted; a law making gun trafficking a federal crime; and a commitment from the federal government to purchase firearms only from companies that use the latest and best safety technology.
I know that not everyone in this room has made a decision about what candidate you will support, OMalley said Sunday night. But I also know this is New Hampshire and that some of you have. So Im asking supporters of Senator Sanders to please urge Senator Sanders to back these four common-sense provisions that I just laid out to reduce gun violence. And I am asking the supporters of Secretary Clinton to please urge Secretary Clinton to back the specific provisions that I just laid out.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/10/04/martin-omalley-citing-his-record-in-maryland-asserts-himself-on-gun-control/
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)elleng
(130,714 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Fair is fair and O'Malley has been ahead of the curve for years.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)not ashamed to say so!
He is going to clean house in the debates.
elleng
(130,714 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)you never have to use a weathervane to determine who and what ideas I support.
I wish O'Malley was in Bernie's shoes at times, but I will bolster support for Bernie at every opportunity.
That doesn't mean I don't love O'Malley to the heart and soul. Maybe during the first debate (and I expect he will) knock it out of the park.
elleng
(130,714 posts)Just looked at the calendar today (been busy with family stuff,)
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)I think America likes that.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)America is sick of Clintons and Bushs. We want someone positive for our country, not just another politico looking to feather their own nest.
I definitely am sick of those two dynastic political factions. That isn't what America is about.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Truprogressive85
(900 posts)As an African-American I always find odd that so called pro-control folks only get rile up when the victims are poc
In any major city you can illegal handgun for $100 or even less - What gun control measure is going to stop that ? if there already in massive amounts of guns in underground market ?
Kids were being massacred by guns in the "Urban America" way before Newton - yet the problem has yet to be solved
Illegal guns to me and my peers real threat or does that even matter since it happens in "Urban America"
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)right to bear arms etc..?
I only ask because I have never seen one thing that leads me to believe that people who vote Democrat are largely against gun rights. I ask this as someone who stands in the middle as I do not own a gun, don't plan to own a gun but also do not hold stringent views on their control or banning outside of getting rid of loopholes and requiring better checks and balances, and better laws to hold people accountable for gun crimes.
LannyDeVaney
(1,033 posts)It's not like they don't hunt in Australia.
And seriously, thousands of deaths are the cost so some families can go outside and target practice?
His excuse makes no sense at all.