Ugly New Revelations for Hillary & Email Saga

[askew]

Some new ugly revelations for Hillary today:

Via McClatchy:

Hillary Clinton hired a Connecticut company to back up her emails on a “cloud” storage system, and her lawyers have agreed to turn whatever it contains over to the FBI, a personal familiar with the situation said Tuesday.

The disclosure came as a Republican Senate committee chairman, Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson, also asked the firm to turn over to the committee copies of any Clinton emails still in its possession.

Datto Inc., based in Norwalk, Conn., became the second data storage firm to become entangled in the inquiry into Clinton’s unusual email arrangement, which has sparked a furor that has dogged her campaign. In August, Clinton and the firm that had managed her server since June 2013, Colorado-based Platte River Networks, agreed to surrender it for examination by the FBI.

On Friday, Clinton’s attorney, David Kendall, and Platte River agreed to allow Datto to turn over the data from the backup server to the FBI, said the person familiar with Datto’s storage, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.

Datto said in a statement that “with the consent of our client and their end user, and consistent with our policies regarding data privacy, Datto is working with the FBI to provide data in conjunction with its investigation.”

The source said, however, that Platte River had set up a 60-day retention policy for the backup server, meaning that any emails to which incremental changes were made at least 60 days prior would be deleted and “gone forever.” While the server wouldn’t have been “wiped clean,” the source said, any underlying data likely would have been written over and would be difficult to recover.

On May 31, 2013, four months after Clinton left office, the Clinton Executive Service Corp., which oversaw her email server contracts, hired Platte River to maintain her account. Its New Jersey-based server replaced the server in her New York home that had handled her emails throughout her tenure as secretary of state.

Several weeks ago, Platte River employees discovered that her private server was syncing with an offsite Datto server, he said.

When Datto acknowledged that was the case, a Platte River employee replied in an email: “This is a problem.”

Johnson said that “Datto apparently possessed a backup of the server’s contents since June 2013.”

Upon that discovery, Platte River “directed Datto to not delete the saved data and worked with Datto to find a way to move the saved information . . . back to Secretary Clinton’s private server.”

The letter also noted that Platte River employees were directed to reduce the amount of email data being stored with each backup. Late this summer, Johnson wrote, a Platte River employee took note of this change and inquired whether the company could search its archives for an email from Clinton Executive Service Corp. directing such a reduction in October or November 2014 and then again around February, advising Platte River to save only emails sent during the most recent 30 days.

Those reductions would have occurred after the State Department requested that Clinton turn over her emails.

It was here that a Platte River employee voiced suspicions about a cover-up and sought to protect the company. “If we have it in writing that they told us to cut the backups,” the employee wrote, “and that we can go public with our statement saying we have had backups since day one, then we were told to trim to 30 days, it would make us look a WHOLE LOT better,” according to the email cited by Johnson.

In the letter to Austin McChord, Datto’s CEO, Johnson asked the firm to produce copies of all communications it had relating to Clinton’s server, including those with Platte River and the Clinton firm.” He also asked whether Datto and its employees were authorized to store and view classified information and for details of any cyberattacks on the backup server.

Also, new emails were released from Hillary's top aide, Cheryl Mills, that showed she sent emails to Clinton Foundation that are now considered classified via Politico.

Hillary Clinton’s No. 2 at the State Department twice forwarded information to the Clinton Foundation that was later deemed classified, the latest instance of former Clinton staff transmitting now-classified information.
According to a new email chain shared with POLITICO by Citizens United, Cheryl Mills — Clinton's former chief of state at State — forwarded State Department background information about Rwanda and the Congo to the Clintons' philanthropic organization. Citizens United, a conservative activist group, obtained the messages via a Freedom of Information act lawsuit.
Story Continued Below
Former President Bill Clinton was visiting Africa, including Rwanda, around the time that Mills sent the email, which was mostly redacted. Former president Clinton was also considering giving Rwandan President Paul Kagame a plenary role at the Clinton Global Initiative, according to the emails.

The information in the 2012 emails was classified by the State Department in July of this year because of national security and foreign policy reasons, according to the documents. The classification specifically related to foreign government information and intelligence activities, sources or methods, according to the redaction labels.

Since Foreign Government Information is considered classified "at birth", those emails were likely classified at the time Mills forwarded them.

Expect this drip, drip, drip to continue with the email saga as we find out Hillary's been hiding information on the emails from the public.

[TheMastersNemesis]

1. Looks Like A Troll OP. Not Worth The Time To Read.

[Logical]

2. Lol, member since 2003. Nt

[MindfulOne]

78. WTF= "Clinton Executive Service Corp"???

Family foundations (I've lost count) and now this family owned and operated company, "the Clinton Executive Service Corp"?

WASHINGTON — An employee of the computer company that maintained Hillary Rodham Clinton’s ­email server was questioned if he was part of a coverup, according to documents ­released Tuesday.
“This whole thing really is covering up some shady shit,” the employee said in an Aug. 19 company email...

What the fuck?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/hillary-clinton-emails-platte-river-networks/

[askew]

83. Yeah, this is the first I've heard about that Corp.

It's pretty telling that the employees at Platte could tell a cover-up was happening and wanted to cover themselves. This keeps getting messier.

[askew]

4. Yes reporting the news makes me a troll.

You can't just hide from bad Hillary news. She hid the existence of a back-up. She asked her server company to change the rules for back-up storage to save less emails after being directed by State Dept. to turn over all government records. These are the facts.

[leftofcool]

11. Yea, love those GOP facts. Thank you for regurgitating them here for us.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. It's all they have...

It's rather ugly...

I play in a L A Fitness basketball rec league for quadragenarians and a few hearty quinquagenarians . I don't continually hope that one of our opponents gets sick or injured so my team can win...

Again, very ugly!!!

[RiverLover]

14. Thank you for making it look like Democrats don't care about facts.

And for supporting a person who puts us in that position.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Thank you for being a stalwart Democrat who doesn't flinch when attacked by a swarm of...

Thank you for being a stalwart Democrat who doesn't flinch when attacked by a swarm of anonymous internet vipers.

[enid602]

42. berniemoonies

The berniemoonies can't let it rest. It's all they've got. Never thought I'd see the day when the supposed 'progressive' element of the Dem party allies itself so unashamedly with the efforts of the Tea Party.

[workinclasszero]

53. Sickening isn't it?

This site hates democrats worse than hate radio/fox.

[marym625]

82. funny, you have no problem with people posting what republicans say about Bernie.

In fact, articles quoting a crazy republican, who lost to Bernie. A post twisting facts and misleading, at best, what really happened, just to try and disparage Bernie Sanders.

But I guess hypocrisy works for you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251649498#post18

[workinclasszero]

85. I defend democrats on "democratic" underground vs republicans all the time

Is Bernie a democrat??

I can only hope that Bernie evolves and comes to his senses someday and admits it was terribly wrong of him to protect the gun industry with special privileges and his unfortunate and sad vote against the Brady bill.

[marym625]

89. Just keep grasping at straws

The PPLA doesn't give the fun manufacturers special privileges. It stopped lawsuits that other manufacturers were already protected from.

I hope Hillary evolves and admits her vote for No Child Left Behind was an atrocious error.

What you did was kick a post that twisted facts, misled what happened and was about a crazy republican that lost to Bernie. Then you bitched here about this being a Republican source. It's hypocritical. No matter how much you try to change the conversation

[workinclasszero]

93. And Bernie Sanders voted to protect gun manufacturers after massacres involving the use

of their products from lawsuits.


And Bernie Sanders voted against the Brady bill.


Right?

[marym625]

100. wrong. And again, you ignore your hypocrisy

Yes, he didn't vote for the Brady bill.

Wrong, he didn't vote, "to protect gun manufacturers after massacres involving the use of their products from lawsuits."

Just keep diverting the conversation from your hypocrisy. That'll make it not be true.

By the way, McClatchy is not a conservative publication.

How's that No child left behind bill working out for education?

[NealK]

125. She voted for No Child Left Behind?

I honestly didn't know about that. Disgusting.

[enid602]

98. bernie

I never made such a post. To me, it seems the repubs and conservative media have been careful to show Bernie in a positive light. They want him as the nominee, for obvious reasons.

[marym625]

101. I never said you did

And I completely disagree with your analysis. In fact, I think they want Hillary to win.

[NealK]

130. "This site hates democrats worse than hate radio/fox."

You mean this site?

http://hillaryclintonsupporters.com/forum

[artislife]

76. What an ugly name you decided to grace us with

Sounds a lot like Obamabots...but you were probably a sniveling opponent then, too

[NealK]

127. berniemoonies?

Childish and despicable.

[Fawke Em]

72. I'm sorry, but federal rules regarding digital evidence

are not "GOP facts."

The last update to those rules was made last year, which would be under the Obama Administration.

If she did request that her server company to make changes to save less emails to the back up after being requested by State to turn over the emails, she may be in violation of federal law. Period.

I have long held that Benghazi is a tempest in a teapot, but her handling of this private (and seemingly unsecure) email server is extremely circumspect.

[askew]

84. They aren't GOP facts. They are facts.

Just because you don't like them doesn't make them untrue.

It does no good to hide your head in the sand and deny that there are some serious issues unfolding in this email saga.

[NealK]

126. Is CNN verboten too?

Washington (CNN)Employees at the company that maintained Hillary Clinton's private email server expressed concern among themselves about the way the former secretary of state's team directed them to manage data backups after the FBI started looking into the arrangements, according to emails obtained by a senator.

In a letter obtained by CNN, Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Chairman Ron Johnson, R-Wisconsin, asks Datto, Inc, the makers of Clinton's server back-up system, for information on how her emails were preserved and protected. The FBI has also sought information from the company, according to sources.

Johnson indicates that a "Clinton family company," Clinton Executive Service Corp., paid for the back-up services, operated through a device called the Datto SIRIS S2000, and that the purchase was made by Platte River Networks when the server was moved from her private residence to a New Jersey-based data center in 2013.
Hillary Clinton, while U.S. secretary of state, checks her Blackberry on a military plane in October 2011. Clinton <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/10/politics/hillary-clinton-email-scandal-press-conference/index.html" target="_blank">said she used a private email account</a> for her official work at the State Department and that she did so out of convenience. But she admitted in retrospect "it would have been better" to use multiple emails.
7 photos: Hillary Clinton email controversy

...

Then this past August, a Platte River Networks employee wrote to a coworker that he was, "Starting to think this whole thing really is covering up some shaddy (sic) s**t."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/hillary-clinton-emails-platte-river-networks/

[morningfog]

29. It's fucking McClatchy, hardly a troll.

[questionseverything]

106. McClatchy is really one of the last decent print news organizations

n/t

[Fawke Em]

69. You do realize that a federal evidentiary digital chain of custody law

may have been broken, here, right?

[840high]

3. kick for later

[leveymg]

5. Note the two orders to destroy the email received after subpoena. OOJ

Obstruction of Justice. Add that to violation of 18 USC 793.

[askew]

6. Yeah, that seems pretty serious.

[HereSince1628]

31. Looks troublesome for Clinton's loyal employee

This is one of the reasons why, outside of issues of content of emails and use of private server, the un-scandal about the email/private server bothers me: Clinton has a history of the people around her ending up skewered on their own swords.

For me, that raises doubt about both the quality of her leadership and her character.

[leveymg]

38. There is no question HRC ordered the system set up. This makes it more likely that the AG

may actually go ahead with a Grand Jury indictment with the original evidence seeking prosecution under 18USC Sec. 793 (e) and (f) for mishandling classified materials. Those charges would be squarely in her lap. Also raises possibility of additional conspiracy charges under Sec. 371.

[magical thyme]

17. wish I could rec a thread.

I thought it would come from Pagliano. But I've figured it was coming.

It's not the crime. It's the coverup.

[leveymg]

24. I'll say it again: Obstruction of Justice (OOJ), 18 USC 1505

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-73
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1505

18 U.S. Code § 1505 - Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees

Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)


Whoever, with intent to avoid, evade, prevent, or obstruct compliance, in whole or in part, with any civil investigative demand duly and properly made under the Antitrust Civil Process Act, willfully withholds, misrepresents, removes from any place, conceals, covers up, destroys, mutilates, alters, or by other means falsifies any documentary material, answers to written interrogatories, or oral testimony, which is the subject of such demand; or attempts to do so or solicits another to do so; or

Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication influences, obstructs, or impedes or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which any pending proceeding is being had before any department or agency of the United States, or the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which any inquiry or investigation is being had by either House, or any committee of either House or any joint committee of the Congress—

Shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.

See, also,

Obstruction of Justice - Federation of American Scientists
https://www.fas.org/sgp/.../RL34303.pd...
Federation of American Scientists
Apr 17, 2014 - Obstruction of justice is the impediment of governmental activities. There are a host of ..... Obstruction of Justice by Destruction of Evidence , pp. 25-26.

In the case of either congressional or administrative proceedings, §1505 condemns only that
misconduct which is intended to obstruct the administrative proceedings or the due and proper
exercise of the power of inquiry.147 In order to overcome judicially-identified uncertainty as to the
intent required,148 Congress added a definition of “corruptly” in 1996: “As used in §1505, the
term ‘corruptly’ means acting with an improper purpose, personally or by influencing another,
including making a false or misleading statement, or withholding, concealing, altering, or
destroying a document or other information,” 18 U.S.C. 1515(b). Examples of the type of conduct
that have been found obstructive vary.149
(. . .)
conspiracy to obstruct administrative or congressional proceedings may be prosecuted under 18
U.S.C. 371,151 and the courts would likely find that overseas violations of §1505 may be tried in
this country.152 Moreover, the general aiding and abetting, accessory after the fact, and misprision
statutes are likely to apply with equal force in the case of obstruction of an administrative or
congressional proceeding.153

[NealK]

128. ...

[leveymg]

134. It was allowed . . . I take responsibility.

[NealK]

136. Cool.

[Indepatriot]

7. You mean, like, with a cloth?....

[dreamnightwind]

8. Wow, from the OP it clearly looks like a coverup

Until now I didn't think her email server problems were all that serious, though they bothered me because it looked like an attempt to thwart FOIA and legal discovery, which is not at all acceptable.

I don't have time right now to read any more than what is in the OP, but the excerpts there clearly hint at a coverup. Looks bad.

Might be what opens the door for Biden to enter the race, not that I have any interest in Biden entering the race, I don't see him as any improvement over Hillary, and I prefer Bernie to win head-to-head rather than winning because the corporatist vote is split.

If a request can be traced to the campaign that the retention period be changed to only 30 days rather than retaining a full incremental backup, that would be very damning indeed.

I doubt Hillary has anything that serious to hide, she's too smart for that. This may be a case where the coverup is worse than the crime. Anyway this news got my attention, we'll see what unfolds from here. McClatchy is usually a pretty good source.

[magical thyme]

18. more likely somebody on her staff will take the fall.

[Fumesucker]

27. If by "take the fall" you mean "be thrown to the wolves"

[magical thyme]

55. or under the bus, or whatever the

phrase du jour is...

But if all this is true, somebody will go down. Most likely someone at a very low level. Probably someone totally uninvolved, since IT people generally aren't fools.

[Jester Messiah]

107. Who will be her Scooter Libby?

Cuz we all know Hil's too big to take the fall herself.

[jeff47]

97. There always was a big deal. Her team completely botched the security of her server.

What we know so far:

1) Communications with her server were not encrypted for the first 3 months.
https://www.venafi.com/blog/post/what-venafi-trustnet-tells-us-about-the-clinton-email-server/

2) They left the default VPN keys installed on her server
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/clinton-s-e-mail-system-built-for-privacy-though-not-security

Using those addresses, McGeorge discovered that the certificate appearing on the site Tuesday appeared to be the factory default for the security appliance, made by Fortinet Inc., running the service.

3) They were using, and continue to use, self-signed SSL certificates
http://gawker.com/how-unsafe-was-hillary-clintons-secret-staff-email-syst-1689393042

4) They set up a .com domain, enabling the typosquater who has registered clintonmail.com (no "e" before "mail&quot . Whoever registered that domain is in a perfect position to steal login information or perform spear phishing attacks.

5) Her ISP was repeatedly hacked by China
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=615632

[stonecutter357]

9. Benghazi

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. When all you have is a hammer the whole world looks like a nail.

[Fawke Em]

77. Not Benghazi.

Benghazi is a tempest in a teapot. This is a possible violation of federal law regarding digital chain of custody.

This is another animal.

Disregard for a moment that I'm a Sanders supporter. What you need to know is that I work in IT security. I have for nine years. I'm not a novice. I have had to sign off on and physically monitor hard drives and other equipment that comes into my facility for our forensics teams. We even have a white room where we store this stuff - and that's just for the physical equipment that houses the digital evidence. Maintaining a proper chain of custody is crucial to legal investigations.

There are guidelines for handing digital evidence just like there are guideline for handing physical evidence.

If what is being reported my McClatchey is true, she and/or her staff and/or the server companies involved may have violated federal law.

And that's not Benghazi.

[NealK]

129. +1

You're absolutely right.

[leftofcool]

10. Another not there story. Aren't you getting tired of the BS from the GOP?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. It's all they have...

They think it will help their candidate but it won't.

[99Forever]

13. Drip, drip, drip.

And I thought I had been assured by members of Camp Weathervane that this scandal was gone forever.



I'm shocked, SHOCKED I say.

[RiverLover]

15. You know its bad when Obama's current state dept has to get involved and use the court system

to attempt to get what they need from Hillary.

Its not the GOP this time folks.

[magical thyme]

19. CNN backs it up

Employees at company working with Clinton email server expressed concerns
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/hillary-clinton-emails-platte-river-networks/

[RiverLover]

23. So does WaPo.

....The letter cites some colorful internal e-mails from Platte River that were sent in August as the company’s role in the controversy gained widespread attention.

In one exchange, a Platte River employee working on the Clinton account discusses with a colleague whether there was a written record of a “directive to cut the backup.”

The context is not clear, but it suggests there was growing anxiety over how the system was managed and who would be held responsible. At about the time of that exchange, Platte River had been in discussions with Datto about the length of time Clinton e-mail data was preserved and whether copies were saved, according to a person familiar with the discussions.

“If we had that email we are golden,” the employee wrote.

“Starting to think this whole thing really is covering up some shaddy [sic] shit,” the employee wrote.

Boian, the Platte River spokesman, said he had no idea what the coverup conversation referred to, but he said, “I can tell you emphatically that Platte River Networks does not believe that any cover up has occurred.”

FBI probe of Clinton e-mail expands to second data company
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/fbi-probe-of-clinton-e-mail-expands-to-second-data-company/2015/10/06/3d94ba46-6c48-11e5-b31c-d80d62b53e28_story.html

[Nitram]

25. The use of the word "Ugly" is enough to classify this as a hit piece. nt

[Fumesucker]

26. Perhaps "shaddy" would be a more accurate description?

[Nitram]

30. Shoddy? nt

[magical thyme]

51. more likely shady.

although, within the context, "shoddy" also works. Coverups are inherently shady, as is the "shit" that is being covered up. But coverups can also be inept, ie shoddy.

[Adrahil]

32. Trey? Is that you? nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. It is all they have

I read the story three times...

It seems Ron Johnson (R) Wisconsin is doing his own oppo research and flogging the story to the media.


Let the swarm come after me...I wish I I can set up my computer for a one way skype. I don't need to see them or know anything about them but they can see me scornfully laugh at them as they carry water for the Republicans in service of their candidate.

[randome]

36. Damn. They keep getting closer. What's next for the electron microscope approach to journalism?

They'll find out her hair is infested with parasites?

Oh shit! It really is! We're doomed!


[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[restorefreedom]

33. is anyone concerned

about the security of the cloud and the potential for breach/hacking?

sounds like another layer of problems..how many other companies were involved?

[askew]

86. I'm concerned about it.

It's pretty clear there is classified information on her server. It's still being debated whether or not it was classified when they received/sent it, but everyone agrees it is classified now. So, if that is case why didn't Hillary tell the FBI/State Dept about this other company so the classified data could be contained? She just left it hanging out there. That's worrisome and should bring a review of her classified status.

[jeff47]

95. How Team Clinton botched the security on her email server

What we know so far:

1) Communications with her server were not encrypted for the first 3 months.
https://www.venafi.com/blog/post/what-venafi-trustnet-tells-us-about-the-clinton-email-server/

2) They left the default VPN keys installed on her server
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/clinton-s-e-mail-system-built-for-privacy-though-not-security

Using those addresses, McGeorge discovered that the certificate appearing on the site Tuesday appeared to be the factory default for the security appliance, made by Fortinet Inc., running the service.

3) They were using, and continue to use, self-signed SSL certificates
http://gawker.com/how-unsafe-was-hillary-clintons-secret-staff-email-syst-1689393042

4) They set up a .com domain, enabling the typosquater who has registered clintonmail.com (no "e" before "mail&quot . Whoever registered that domain is in a perfect position to steal login information or perform spear phishing attacks.

5) Her ISP was repeatedly hacked by China
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=615632

[winter is coming]

104. Concerned? More like whomper-jawed.

What were her IT people thinking?

[Maedhros]

117. Putting sensitive information on the cloud is abolutely irresponsible.

Doing so is prohibited by policy in my company. I'm aghast that the Federal Government would even allow the possibility of it for cabinet-level employees.

[askew]

120. Yeah, I'd be fired for that.

I'd also be fired for using personal email for work, putting data on a thumb drive and keeping data in my home server. All of that is thanks to government regulations from HIPPA, etc. Not sure why it is ok for Hillary to do any of this with government records.

[restorefreedom]

121. that is what i don't i understand

the whole benghazi thing was a red herring by the gop, but his issue of having unsecured classified material floating around seems like a real issue.

but anyone who brings it up is accused of attacking hillary. and thanks to the benghazi witch hunt, the real problem is being conflated with their political posturing.

[magical thyme]

122. yes. and the finger-pointing has begun...

I also read earlier today that the main IT company said they specifically instructed this company to *not* put the emails on the cloud.

I expect a lot of IT people are scrambling for old cya emails with instructions sent/received.

[Le Taz Hot]

35. Raise your hand if you remember Watergate.

The reluctance to turn over documents, the drip-drip-drip incremental email release every month over which the MSM and Republicans are salivating. This will bury her. She's done.

[RiverLover]

39. The FBI is investigating to answer that very Q.

We'll find out sooner or later. I hope its sooner, like before the Primary.

[RiverLover]

47. I'd answer that if it made any sense.

[RiverLover]

59. No.

But then, I believe Clinton has been covering up for months which prompted the FBI investigation.

If they find nothing wrong, I'll accept that. But it won't make me trust her or want her neoliberal self in the Oval Office. There are 1000s of reasons to not want her as our president. Her email shenanigans are just a symptom of her vast corruptness, imo.

[RiverLover]

79. OK

nt

[askew]

88. There are some really big lawsuits that won't be heard until February.

One is on who gave Hillary permission to use private server.

The other two deal with her top aides having multiple jobs while working at State (with Foundation and Clinton donors) and issues with the Clinton Foundation.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/court-hearings-clinton-email-cases-set-february-n439486

This is likely not going to be resolved before the primary is over so we could be stuck with a nominee so damaged she can't win in November.

[Le Taz Hot]

45. You're not getting it.

It's the drip-drip-drip thing that makes it appear she has something to hide. All that does is add fuel to the speculative fire and the MSM and the Republicans are smelling blood in the water and they're circling in. She's done as a candidate.

[Le Taz Hot]

64. One last time and the I'm done here.

It's the PERCEPTION that she's hiding something. It's the slow-leaking information. It keeps the hounds on her trail. She testifies before Congress this month on Benghazi. Do you think questions will be limited to Benghazi? Remember, what they did to her husband. The Congressional hearings were ostensibly about Whitewater and very quickly became about blue dress stains.

If you seriously think that all of that won't have a MAJOR impact on her campaign you are mind-numbingly mistaken.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. None of this will help your hapless candidate.

The reluctance to turn over documents, the drip-drip-drip incremental email release every month over which the MSM and Republicans are salivating. This will bury her. She's done.

None of this will help your hapless candidate. I wish I had a one way skype so you can see me scornfully laugh at your baseless accusations. I neither care to see or know anything about you.

I have zero fear of the swarm. In fact it's a rush hour now and I live within walking distance of the 110. I would rather walk in its traffic than back away from the swarm.

[Le Taz Hot]

46. "Hapless candidate."

Well, DSB, I admire your tenacity and willingness to go down with the ship.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. We have something in common

Well, Le Taz Hot, I admire your tenacity and disregard for inconvenient truths.

[Le Taz Hot]

49. Well, I do have one advantage it seems.

I know how to spot a trajectory so there's that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. You mean the trajectory that has the Vermont independent looking up at a candidate who isn't ...

You mean the trajectory that has the septuagenarian Vermont independent looking up at a candidate who isn't even in the game:


http://www.predictwise.com/politics/2016DemNomination

[Le Taz Hot]

57. And further . . .

I predict a more precipitous decline after the first debate and after she testifies -- both events occur this month.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. I predict she will rip Trey Gowdy's heart out and show it to him before he dies.

As to the debate my gal will will be the guy in the dark trunks, lol:

[aspirant]

67. Did you forget your comity advice?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

68. Did you forget your comity advice?

Did you forget your comity advice?

No, neither did I forget this sagacious advice:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6895432

[aspirant]

102. And your subscribed, sagacious advice

Star Member DemocratSinceBirth (58,483 posts)
46. No...Because I subscribe to Malcolm X's axiom

"Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery".

-Malcolm X

[DemocratSinceBirth]

103. Precisely.

No...Because I subscribe to Malcolm X's axiom

"Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery".

-Malcolm X

This will be the most anticipated answer in the annals of internet history.

Drum beat

...


Drum beat

...


Are you suggesting that Malcom X should have counseled black folks to allow folks to physically assault them, castrate them, and lynch them:





with impunity?

[aspirant]

108. It doesn't say "physically assault"

it says "puts his hand on you" which is ludicrous to say that automatically results in "to physically assault them, castrate them, and lynch them:"

A friendly pat on the back, wait

drum roll

"send him to the cemetery"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

111. This is obscurantism on steroids

It doesn't say "physically assault"


it says "puts his hand on you" which is ludicrous to say that automatically results in "to physically assault them, castrate them, and lynch them:"

A friendly pat on the back, wait

drum roll

"send him to the cemetery"

This is obscurantism on steroids:

ob·scu·rant·ism
əbˈskyo͝orənˌtizəm,äb-,ˌäbskyəˈran-/Submit
noun
the practice of deliberately preventing the facts or full details of something from becoming known.

If you believe that Malcom X was referring to a friendly pat on the back or a friendly hug there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion.

[aspirant]

114. Then Malcolm should have made it perfectly clear,

he was a great wordsmith and should have said "physically assault" with intent to kill when he is talking about the serious action of killing, "send him to the cemetery".

What about a shove, should that result in "send him to the cemetery" too

Lot's of gray here and Malcolm should have thought this out better.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

115. Then Malcolm should have made it perfectly clear.

Then Malcolm should have made it perfectly clear,

he was a great wordsmith and should have said "physically assault" with intent to kill when he is talking about the serious action of killing, "send him to the cemetery".

What about a shove, should that result in "send him to the cemetery" too

Lot's of gray here and Malcolm should have thought this out better.

Does this make sense to you?


"Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone pats you on the back, send him to the cemetery."

[aspirant]

118. About as much sense as using

"puts his hand on you". How is a shove, a face slap, pulling your hair, a punch in the belly not putting "his hand on you"?

I stand by my statement that Malcolm should have thought this out better

[DemocratSinceBirth]

119. I suspect most reasonable people understand it is a parable as Jesus spoke in parables.

The assertion embodied in the quote is that if a person puts his hand on someone in an unfriendly way the person who is being attacked should make the person think twice about attacking anybody again.

[aspirant]

133. No, it is your SUBJECTIVE assertion, not mine

"if a person puts his hand on someone in an unfriendly way the person who is being attacked should make the person think twice about attacking anybody again". Not what Malcolm said, his words, "send him to the cemetery". When your dead you don't have second, third or any more thoughts.

[askew]

94. The testifying could give her a bump.

If people feel she is being ganged up on or that they are on a witch hunt over Benghazi (which they are), she is going to get sympathy and it will help her. However, they have started saying they are going to focus on email issues and not Benghazi. If that is the case, it could get ugly because she clearly has lied to the public on this issue and tried to cover up information.

As for the debates, the media will spin the debate as a win for Hillary. They did the same in 2007-08. But, focus groups gave the win to Obama over Hillary time and time again.

I clearly hope O'Malley catches fire with the debates as people just don't know enough about him. If O'Malley does well, I think he pulls some of Hillary's lukewarm support away from her.

Bernie just needs to reassure audiences that he isn't the angry socialist the media and Hillary's team have tried to make him look like. If he does that, he'll get a bump as well.

[aspirant]

56. Truths, what happened to your comity

"hapless candidate. I wish I had a one way skype so you can see me scornfully laugh at your baseless accusations. I neither care to see or know anything about you". Where's the comity?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. Where's the comity?

Where's the comity?

It's here:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6895432

[aspirant]

70. No it's here on your post

76. Truth is good but so is comity.

Practice what you preach or your a hypocritical sinner

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. The only difference ...

The only difference

between a sinner and a saint

is one person is saved and the other ain't.

[aspirant]

73. If you don't practice comity

are you a sinner or ain't

[DemocratSinceBirth]

75. We are all sinners. We aren't perfect until we get to Heaven.

eom

[emulatorloo]

132. Raise your hand if you remember Filegate and Whitewater

Appreciate your position but I see more similarities to those "investigations."

[PDittie]

43. The FBI does not investigate "big nothings"

like the mishandling of classified material. Just ask David Petraeus. Or Chelsea Manning. Or Edward Snowden.

Hillary will skate but somebody will take the fall. Not Huma Abedin or Cheryl Mills, but someone.

[PDittie]

61. No and no.

And I still won't be voting for her, either.

[askew]

99. I think it will be the IT guy and Cheryl Mills.

She has been caught forwarding information now-classified to Clinton Foundation. If it was found to be classified when she sent it, she's done. It seems likely that will happen as the emails contained Foreign Government Information and that is always considered classified. There's a reason she has a legal team in place already.

[HereSince1628]

124. Yes, will they fall on their swords to protect the boss?

We know that when the staff is compromised the secretary will disavow any knowledge of their action.

[Uncle Joe]

58. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, askew.

[askew]

90. Thanks. This issue really needs to be discussed.

The fact that so many Democrats put up blinders and refuse to acknowledge how serious this email mess has gotten is worrying to me.

[darkangel218]

62. I guess now we can expect Biden to announce his candidacy shortly

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

74. Will she be using "I'm not a crook" as a campaign slogan?

[artislife]

80. By now and countless threads with back and forths

I hope there is something to it and she and her minions fade from memory.


And I thought it was just dumb to begin with. Now I am hoping it is career destroying. It was a pompous thing to do and I feel like the French peasant before storming the Bastille.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

81. Well...the rich and powerful live by different rules and change them when necessary.

[artislife]

87. Yes they do

Did you see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027238320


yup!

[TwilightGardener]

91. Wow. Almost getting funny now.

[hrmjustin]

92. I thought there was a 4 paragraph rule on DU.

[MoonRiver]

96. ..

Wake me up when there's an indictment.

[questionseverything]

105. is that a campaign slogan?

no indictment yet!

[MoonRiver]

109. Nope, just my response to a rightwing hit job.

[questionseverything]

110. mcclathy, cnn and washington post

all reporting same details,details saying she asked for less email back up after being directed to retain all is going to be a problem

unless we find out the 2nd IT company was trying to put a bad spin on it ,but that seems far fetched as most companies just want their customers happy and even if that was the case it doesn't say much about her management skills, afterall she picked the 2nd IT company

her candidacy is too damaged to win hopefully it doesnt spread to the rest of the democratic field

[floriduck]

112. This may account for

why the individual who managed the server initially pleaded the Fifth Amendment so he wouldn't have to testify. It certainly isn't conclusive but it raises the concern. Time will tell. But each day and each new drip eats away at HRC's poll numbers.

[apnu]

113. This is what the Cloud is like.

It bites you in the ass. The Cloud is a tangled web of services where a lot can go wrong and with so many hands working on it, it get's complicated instantly.

Not that any of this is illegal. Its not. Its bad form, sure, to be conducting official state business, with private assets, many of which are outside whatever regulations exist for document preservation. But its not illegal.

I'm not surprised by this development at all.

[ram2008]

116. I thought the e-mail story was losing legs, looks like I was wrong

Benghazi may be a "faux" GOP scandal, this e-mail stuff is not.

Looks like Val's got some 'splainin to do.

[Fred Sanders]

123. No, you are still wrong. One hoax down....another hoax by the SAME hoaxsters...you may believe?

The obvious paradox of Democratic Party members allying with GOP hoaxsters to attack Clinton is a strange one.

[NealK]

131. K&R

[Dems to Win]

135. If she had simply cooperated with the FOIA requests while she was SOS....

She would not be in this situation today.

In December 2014, when Hillary turned over paper copies of her email to the State Dept, there were FOIA requests from the AP that had been sitting at State for five years. They were filed while Hillary was SOS.

She and her team should have responded to them at the time, making her email archivable and available for the annoying but legally necessary FOIA requests.

Instead, she pushed it off, didn't respond, didn't allow anyone at the State Department to respond. She kicked the can down the road, right smack into the middle of her Presidential campaign.

Brilliant. Just Brilliant.