2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumJust for the record
Hate is not the same thing as not trusting someone.
I don't hate Hillary but I don't trust her either.
She trusted that Bush the Least; the same man that disenfranchised the voters of Florida, (most of them minorities and the economically disadvantaged) and stole the election of 2000 would not "abuse his authority and wage war with Iraq?"
In June Hillary trusted that giving a Republican controlled Congress fast track authority to deliberate the TPP of which she came to oppose within the past 24 hours or so was a good idea.
They first turned on their own party's president when he joined with Republican congressional leaders to push a measure called "trade promotion authority" in June. That legislation -- key to getting other countries to sign off on a final agreement -- allowed Obama to seal the deal and send it to lawmakers for an up-or-down vote with no amendments.
Clinton dismissed that bill as procedural, and said she'd weigh in on the deal once it became final.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/hillary-clinton-opposes-tpp/index.html
Fast-track, or trade promotion authority, will allow the White House to send trade deals to Congress for up-or-down votes. The Senate will not be able to filibuster them, and lawmakers will not have the power to amend them.
The expedited process, which lasts until 2018 and can be extended until 2021, greatly increases Obamas chances of concluding negotiations on the TPP, which is a top goal of the presidents.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/246035-senate-approves-fast-track-sending-trade-bill-to-white-house
The TPP; will most likely pass the Republican Congress now that the possibility of filibustering and amendments have been eliminated whether Hillary truly opposes it or not.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)who has defended his opponents AGAINST hateful attacks.
And we have proof, they have said so on their little 'cave-like' site so there really is no denying it.
This is the second declaration I've seen you make today. Yet, you've not offered any scientific proof of your assertions.
We can link, indeed it has been linked the hate for Bernie and his supporters, can you link to something to prove THIS assertion?
I do not hate anyone, even the most vile people, like Cheney. Hate is a debilitating emotion mostly to the hater, and I like myself too much to cause that kind of harm to me and those I care about.
I totally disagree with her policies on many issues. I do not TRUST people who have held beliefs for decades, then suddenly change their minds during times when it will benefit them to do so.
I trust people who have consistent records on major issues when it comes to choosing a leader for this country.
It isn't about them or us. It is about this country.
I notice that Hillary's supporters on this forum toss the word 'hate' around a lot. I am now convinced after taking a peek at that tother site, that this what is known as projection.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Nice try Sabrina.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)And worse, blame ME for what you said, which I merely asked you to prove. I can link to something, it has been linked to here already, that proves the gOeneral consensus here now that there are Hillary supporters who hate Sanders and his supporters.
If you were not prepared to prove your assertions, you should have kept them to yourself. You ought to know by now that on DU people WILL ask for backup to such assertions.
Call them out, I want to know who I am associated who has the kind of hatred for Hillary that we saw on the 'mini-cave'. I want nothing to do with such people. If you link to something that is written on this forum, that will not be hidden by a jury.
I take it therefore that you made it up because I have seen nothing from any supporter of either Bernie or O'Malley that equals the bile I saw on that site directed at Sen Sanders.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)are a member of. We have absolute proof of the hate for Bernie and his supporters now, from people who have spent the past few months here exhibiting behavior towards Bernie supporters that made it no surprise to see what they had to say when they were out of reach of a DU jury.
No surprise. I personally would not participate on a site where that kind of hate was tolerated. At least here such expressions of hatred would be hidden and rightfully so.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Doesn't bother us in the least.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)All we hear is about how persecuted you all are and how there is so much hate towards Hillary and her supporters but no one can document it.
The truth is there is nowhere near the same level of filth on DU that is spewed over at the Clinton Cave, and you've proven it by saying you don't want your fifth hide. See, on DU if you said the same things that are said over at CC you would get hides and a time out.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to that indictment. I am more than willing to post the series of comments where you did exactly what you are now complaining about.
Maybe when the small group of Hillary supporters finally give up the attacks on Bernie and his supporters, we won't have to constantly RESPOND to them in order to 'correcttherecord'.
I am well aware that it IS just a small group of Hillary supporters, not all of her supporters.
sgtbenobo
(327 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)why is it when hillary supporters trott out the lies against bernie and we complain, we are told to buck up, its politics, but when some of us attempt to point out serious policy deficiencies, waffling, or positions that are just unnacceptable to us, we are haters?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)So don't act like it is equal.
You guys have a fit if we post anything critical of him.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)No they are here to disrupt.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)but I think DU generally does a decent job in calling out the disruptors.
Again I go back to say, maybe there is just more criticism about her positions and past actions.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Sanders supporters need more practice at criticism.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)many years before it was popular.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)I hate to see a man who spoke up for the community well before it was popular being misrepresented.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Is that why you had to join another Hillary forum where you could "avoid" dealing with it? Where you could bitch all you want about the criticism you say you are used to?
OK...you say there is post after post of criticism against Hillary compaired to Sanders. Doesn't that make sense, considering the numbers of DUers supporting Sanders, compared to Hilary?
I have a feeling that your ability to deal with it is not quite as solid as you say it is.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)And as you can well see i have no issue talking to Sanders people and telling them my opinion.
But thanks for your little note. Made my night.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)policies is NOT 'hate'.
Calling people who are exercising their right to decide who they believe is the best choice to represent them, 'racists', 'white supremecists', 'dual loyalty' 'commies' and writing in plain sight that they 'hate' a candidate and his supporters, THAT is 'hate'.
I asked you to back up your assertion, and if you had posted a link to a single post from a Bernie supporter who had engaged in accusing her of even one of the above, I would have condemned that person, regardless of whether they are on 'my team' or not.
You have not condemned any of these nasty, right wing memes that we have seen right here on DU. I have voted to hide anything even approaching such nastiness against Hillary however.
You made a claim. It's on you to prove it. You haven't, because your claim was false.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Billary is another term the haters use.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)supporters.
The post you referenced was hidden by BERNIE supporters like me. I was on that jury and voted to hide it.
But you have refused to condemn the far worse, most vile, especially against a Jewish Senator, lies and hatred that have been promoted right here on DU.
End of story. I a Bernie supporter hid a nasty personal attack against Hillary.
You, a Hillary supporter refuse to condemn the vile, hateful months long false attacks and outright lies that have permeated this forum coming from a small group of Hillary supporters.
Let me ask you this, DO you believe as asserted by Hillary supporeters, that Bernie and his supporters are WHITE SUPREMECISTS??
Do you agree with Hillary supporters that Bernie has 'DUAL LOYALTIES' because he is a Jew?
Do you agree with Hillary supporters that Bernie is a Soviet era Communist along with his supporters?
I keep trying to get you to tell us what you believe but you keep refusing to answer.
ONE person made a vile comment about Hillary, I don't know this person, don't know who they support, but I was ON THAT JURY and voted to HIDE IT.
You made a false statement about Bernie supporters, which we can add to all the others coming from Hillary supporters now since you refuse to condemn the nasty, now infamous, vile attacks on Bernie and his supporters, veerin off into unrelated territory.
I hid that 'hldebeast' post.
When have YOU condemned any of the vile, nasty lies that have been told here about Bernie and Supporters???
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Title: "How the National Rifle Association helped get Bernie Sanders elected"
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hrmjustin
And you didn't answer sabrina's questions. Her post is true. And her post explains exactly the difference between the Bernie Group and the Hillary Group, a huge difference integrity and standing up for what is right. Bernie Group hosts lock OPs that are in bad taste, Hillary Group hosts rec them and applaud them. But we've been through this already. So, we know you have not stood up for Sanders as a host of the Hillary Group when you had the chance. Nay, you joined in on the 'fun'.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Yeah, I know, DU isn't the real world. We're a lot more politically astute.
questionseverything
(9,631 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)90% for Bernie.
Nuff said.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)sgtbenobo
(327 posts)...and the nicest grandmother ever.
Who sat by and witnessed nothing. ever.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)If you don't like that fact that Bernie is more popular then you should talk about why Hillary is a better candidate for the people.
Why should there be an equal amount of posts for/against each candidate? That makes absolutely no sense. The fact of the matter is that there are many times more hit pieces that are just smear mongering being posted about Sanders than about Clinton. So if you are correct in your ratio, that means probably almost every post criticizing Bernie is a smear.
You guys are posting and reccing OPs that are the equivalent of Benghazi pieces, and some that are even worse than that. You know, like the ones that are "Not Enough" and others by that same poster.
The infantile behavior and retorts and complaints is astounding. How about you just deal with policy and facts. The "Issues" forum is open now... why don't you guys use it and figure out something positive to push about your chosen candidate?
quickesst
(6,280 posts)....those who are sincere about not hating her do have one flaw. Their lack of a voice when it comes to the hatred that is obvious, and finding that voice at times to defend that which is obvious. Let me add my obligatory "Not All", so those who do not have this flaw have no reason to go on the defensive, or offensive for that matter.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)quickesst
(6,280 posts)Appreciate that.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)k&r
Uncle Joe
(58,107 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,107 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)She is for whatever she believes will advance her own ambitions. And not one thing else.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,107 posts)Peace to you.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Nor do my neighbors and multiple co-workers.
She cannot win the general.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)She will say what it takes to get elected and then she won't care anymore about how she 'moved' to the left because she saw how people loved Bernie.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I'm skeptical of all of them. Trust is for people I know who have earned that trust.
Uncle Joe
(58,107 posts)the airline pilots flying the aircraft that you're in but you must have some level of trust in their capabilities or you would never get on the plane.
Skepticism is fine but that only entails doubt, questioning or uncertainty, when it get to the point of "no trust" this is beyond skepticism.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I don't trust them. Why should I?
It should be about reason, not emotion. I don't trust the pilot, I know what systems are in place to train, regulate them. Systems which are fully lacking in politics.
Uncle Joe
(58,107 posts)Trust is an integral part of reason, and if you don't trust the pilot you do trust the systems in place to train and regulate them.
I agree with your last sentence.
That's the problem with our government it has been sold out to the point that big unregulated money dominates both parties and all three branches.
I believe Bernie and the movement are trying to correct that major malfunction in our political system, but I don't believe that about Hillary.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Bernie has stood for the same principles for decades. That leads me to believe that he means exactly what he says. HRH has been on every conceivable side of every major issue. Her chosen associations with vile individuals like Lloyd Blankfein and War Criminal Henry Kissinger are more than enough to disqualify her from ANY elective office, much less the presidency.
Why would anyone trust her?