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Uncle Joe

(58,107 posts)
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:25 PM Oct 2015

Just for the record

Hate is not the same thing as not trusting someone.

I don't hate Hillary but I don't trust her either.

She trusted that Bush the Least; the same man that disenfranchised the voters of Florida, (most of them minorities and the economically disadvantaged) and stole the election of 2000 would not "abuse his authority and wage war with Iraq?"

In June Hillary trusted that giving a Republican controlled Congress fast track authority to deliberate the TPP of which she came to oppose within the past 24 hours or so was a good idea.



They first turned on their own party's president when he joined with Republican congressional leaders to push a measure called "trade promotion authority" in June. That legislation -- key to getting other countries to sign off on a final agreement -- allowed Obama to seal the deal and send it to lawmakers for an up-or-down vote with no amendments.

Clinton dismissed that bill as procedural, and said she'd weigh in on the deal once it became final.


http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/hillary-clinton-opposes-tpp/index.html







Fast-track, or trade promotion authority, will allow the White House to send trade deals to Congress for up-or-down votes. The Senate will not be able to filibuster them, and lawmakers will not have the power to amend them.

The expedited process, which lasts until 2018 and can be extended until 2021, greatly increases Obama’s chances of concluding negotiations on the TPP, which is a top goal of the president’s.


http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/246035-senate-approves-fast-track-sending-trade-bill-to-white-house



The TPP; will most likely pass the Republican Congress now that the possibility of filibustering and amendments have been eliminated whether Hillary truly opposes it or not.
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Just for the record (Original Post) Uncle Joe Oct 2015 OP
I don't hate her either, I just don't trust her to oppose trade agreements like this if elected. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #1
There are those that hate her here and they show it with their posts. EOM. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #2
There are those who hate Bernie here, one has to wonder how on earth anyone could hate someone sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #3
Your attempt to get me to call someone out here is transparent. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #4
Oh please, you made a statement. And now you are refusing to take responsibility for that statement. sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #9
Lol nice try Sabrina. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #12
Which means, you made it up. Thank you. sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #28
I was arlready alerted on today Sabrina. I have 4 hides and i don't want a fifth. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #29
Okay, but you don't have to name names. We saw them on that 'cave like' site which I believe you sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #39
You want to indict us all go ahead. We really don't care if you don't like us. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #41
Then why do you constantly complain about it? cui bono Oct 2015 #43
You are fogetting. YOU indicted Bernie supporters using the word 'hate'. I merely responded sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #48
Nice try. sgtbenobo Oct 2015 #27
strenuous criticism of policies is not hate restorefreedom Oct 2015 #7
For every post criticizing Mr. Sanders there are 20 criticizing Hillary. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #10
Maybe there is more to criticize ... slipslidingaway Oct 2015 #14
Or maybe people are here to disrupt and post op after op after op to trash her. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #15
On all sides, whether it be Dem or Repub some are here to disrupt ... slipslidingaway Oct 2015 #17
We are used to dealing with it. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #20
Sanders supporters are doing just fine, but thank you for your concern. n/t slipslidingaway Oct 2015 #21
I think not but we can leave it at that. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #22
Yes we can, but I would be remiss if I did not say that Sanders spoke out for the LGBT community ... slipslidingaway Oct 2015 #24
That is very fair to say. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #25
Thanks for acknowledging that fact ... slipslidingaway Oct 2015 #26
Are you? passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #31
I joined the other site because my friend who made it asked me to join. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #33
Or maybe when you used the word 'hate' you were just plain wrong. Disagreeing with someone's sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #32
When people use terms like hillderbeest to describe Hillary i think they hate her. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #34
I see you once again refuse to acknowledge the real hate that has been directed at Bernie and his sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #37
One think the world of Mr. Sanders and 2 what false info have I said against Sanders. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #38
Well you were the first to rec this smear piece: cui bono Oct 2015 #45
Or maybe it's because DU is heavily in favor of Sanders. And maybe there's a reason for that. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #42
20 to 1 support for bernie seems about right questionseverything Oct 2015 #51
Every DU poll has come about hifiguy Oct 2015 #57
Disrupt what? cui bono Oct 2015 #47
If the shoe fits... cherokeeprogressive Oct 2015 #16
My shoe does fit thank you. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #18
maybe it's your canidate... sgtbenobo Oct 2015 #35
Huh? hrmjustin Oct 2015 #36
That has nothing to do with the vitriol of the posts. cui bono Oct 2015 #44
Yes, but.... quickesst Oct 2015 #54
Well said. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #55
Thanks quickesst Oct 2015 #59
Hillary has no moral convictions or ethical standards; it's all political expediency. AtomicKitten Oct 2015 #5
That's my conclusion as well, Atomic Kitten. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #6
. AtomicKitten Oct 2015 #11
.. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #13
+a zillion 840high Oct 2015 #40
Truth. hifiguy Oct 2015 #56
great op, uncle joe! nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #8
Thank you, restorefreedom. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #19
and to you! nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #23
I have no trust in her. SoapBox Oct 2015 #30
I don't hate her either and I also do not trust her at all. cui bono Oct 2015 #46
My problem with the idea of 'trust' as a standard is that I don't trust any politician. Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #49
I agree with that to a point but trust is a requisite in all manner of field, you may never meet Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #50
Politics is not flying a plane. But of course you knew that. Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #52
Politics is a more dangerous activity with far greater repercussions than flying a plane. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #53
Indeed. hifiguy Oct 2015 #58

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
3. There are those who hate Bernie here, one has to wonder how on earth anyone could hate someone
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:38 PM
Oct 2015

who has defended his opponents AGAINST hateful attacks.

And we have proof, they have said so on their little 'cave-like' site so there really is no denying it.

This is the second declaration I've seen you make today. Yet, you've not offered any scientific proof of your assertions.

We can link, indeed it has been linked the hate for Bernie and his supporters, can you link to something to prove THIS assertion?

I do not hate anyone, even the most vile people, like Cheney. Hate is a debilitating emotion mostly to the hater, and I like myself too much to cause that kind of harm to me and those I care about.

I totally disagree with her policies on many issues. I do not TRUST people who have held beliefs for decades, then suddenly change their minds during times when it will benefit them to do so.

I trust people who have consistent records on major issues when it comes to choosing a leader for this country.

It isn't about them or us. It is about this country.

I notice that Hillary's supporters on this forum toss the word 'hate' around a lot. I am now convinced after taking a peek at that tother site, that this what is known as projection.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
9. Oh please, you made a statement. And now you are refusing to take responsibility for that statement.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:55 PM
Oct 2015

And worse, blame ME for what you said, which I merely asked you to prove. I can link to something, it has been linked to here already, that proves the gOeneral consensus here now that there are Hillary supporters who hate Sanders and his supporters.

If you were not prepared to prove your assertions, you should have kept them to yourself. You ought to know by now that on DU people WILL ask for backup to such assertions.

Call them out, I want to know who I am associated who has the kind of hatred for Hillary that we saw on the 'mini-cave'. I want nothing to do with such people. If you link to something that is written on this forum, that will not be hidden by a jury.

I take it therefore that you made it up because I have seen nothing from any supporter of either Bernie or O'Malley that equals the bile I saw on that site directed at Sen Sanders.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
39. Okay, but you don't have to name names. We saw them on that 'cave like' site which I believe you
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:07 AM
Oct 2015

are a member of. We have absolute proof of the hate for Bernie and his supporters now, from people who have spent the past few months here exhibiting behavior towards Bernie supporters that made it no surprise to see what they had to say when they were out of reach of a DU jury.

No surprise. I personally would not participate on a site where that kind of hate was tolerated. At least here such expressions of hatred would be hidden and rightfully so.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
41. You want to indict us all go ahead. We really don't care if you don't like us.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:14 AM
Oct 2015

Doesn't bother us in the least.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
43. Then why do you constantly complain about it?
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:52 AM
Oct 2015

All we hear is about how persecuted you all are and how there is so much hate towards Hillary and her supporters but no one can document it.

The truth is there is nowhere near the same level of filth on DU that is spewed over at the Clinton Cave, and you've proven it by saying you don't want your fifth hide. See, on DU if you said the same things that are said over at CC you would get hides and a time out.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
48. You are fogetting. YOU indicted Bernie supporters using the word 'hate'. I merely responded
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 11:23 AM
Oct 2015

to that indictment. I am more than willing to post the series of comments where you did exactly what you are now complaining about.

Maybe when the small group of Hillary supporters finally give up the attacks on Bernie and his supporters, we won't have to constantly RESPOND to them in order to 'correcttherecord'.

I am well aware that it IS just a small group of Hillary supporters, not all of her supporters.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
7. strenuous criticism of policies is not hate
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:53 PM
Oct 2015

why is it when hillary supporters trott out the lies against bernie and we complain, we are told to buck up, its politics, but when some of us attempt to point out serious policy deficiencies, waffling, or positions that are just unnacceptable to us, we are haters?

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
10. For every post criticizing Mr. Sanders there are 20 criticizing Hillary.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 10:57 PM
Oct 2015

So don't act like it is equal.

You guys have a fit if we post anything critical of him.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
15. Or maybe people are here to disrupt and post op after op after op to trash her.
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 11:13 PM
Oct 2015

No they are here to disrupt.

slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
17. On all sides, whether it be Dem or Repub some are here to disrupt ...
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 11:18 PM
Oct 2015

but I think DU generally does a decent job in calling out the disruptors.

Again I go back to say, maybe there is just more criticism about her positions and past actions.




slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
24. Yes we can, but I would be remiss if I did not say that Sanders spoke out for the LGBT community ...
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 11:47 PM
Oct 2015

many years before it was popular.





slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
26. Thanks for acknowledging that fact ...
Wed Oct 7, 2015, 11:52 PM
Oct 2015

I hate to see a man who spoke up for the community well before it was popular being misrepresented.





passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
31. Are you?
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 12:18 AM
Oct 2015

Is that why you had to join another Hillary forum where you could "avoid" dealing with it? Where you could bitch all you want about the criticism you say you are used to?

OK...you say there is post after post of criticism against Hillary compaired to Sanders. Doesn't that make sense, considering the numbers of DUers supporting Sanders, compared to Hilary?

I have a feeling that your ability to deal with it is not quite as solid as you say it is.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
33. I joined the other site because my friend who made it asked me to join.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 12:21 AM
Oct 2015

And as you can well see i have no issue talking to Sanders people and telling them my opinion.


But thanks for your little note. Made my night.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
32. Or maybe when you used the word 'hate' you were just plain wrong. Disagreeing with someone's
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 12:19 AM
Oct 2015

policies is NOT 'hate'.

Calling people who are exercising their right to decide who they believe is the best choice to represent them, 'racists', 'white supremecists', 'dual loyalty' 'commies' and writing in plain sight that they 'hate' a candidate and his supporters, THAT is 'hate'.

I asked you to back up your assertion, and if you had posted a link to a single post from a Bernie supporter who had engaged in accusing her of even one of the above, I would have condemned that person, regardless of whether they are on 'my team' or not.

You have not condemned any of these nasty, right wing memes that we have seen right here on DU. I have voted to hide anything even approaching such nastiness against Hillary however.

You made a claim. It's on you to prove it. You haven't, because your claim was false.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
34. When people use terms like hillderbeest to describe Hillary i think they hate her.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 12:22 AM
Oct 2015

Billary is another term the haters use.


sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
37. I see you once again refuse to acknowledge the real hate that has been directed at Bernie and his
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:02 AM
Oct 2015

supporters.

The post you referenced was hidden by BERNIE supporters like me. I was on that jury and voted to hide it.

But you have refused to condemn the far worse, most vile, especially against a Jewish Senator, lies and hatred that have been promoted right here on DU.

End of story. I a Bernie supporter hid a nasty personal attack against Hillary.

You, a Hillary supporter refuse to condemn the vile, hateful months long false attacks and outright lies that have permeated this forum coming from a small group of Hillary supporters.

Let me ask you this, DO you believe as asserted by Hillary supporeters, that Bernie and his supporters are WHITE SUPREMECISTS??

Do you agree with Hillary supporters that Bernie has 'DUAL LOYALTIES' because he is a Jew?

Do you agree with Hillary supporters that Bernie is a Soviet era Communist along with his supporters?

I keep trying to get you to tell us what you believe but you keep refusing to answer.

ONE person made a vile comment about Hillary, I don't know this person, don't know who they support, but I was ON THAT JURY and voted to HIDE IT.

You made a false statement about Bernie supporters, which we can add to all the others coming from Hillary supporters now since you refuse to condemn the nasty, now infamous, vile attacks on Bernie and his supporters, veerin off into unrelated territory.

I hid that 'hldebeast' post.

When have YOU condemned any of the vile, nasty lies that have been told here about Bernie and Supporters???

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
45. Well you were the first to rec this smear piece:
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:04 AM
Oct 2015
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Title: "How the National Rifle Association helped get Bernie Sanders elected"
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hrmjustin


And you didn't answer sabrina's questions. Her post is true. And her post explains exactly the difference between the Bernie Group and the Hillary Group, a huge difference integrity and standing up for what is right. Bernie Group hosts lock OPs that are in bad taste, Hillary Group hosts rec them and applaud them. But we've been through this already. So, we know you have not stood up for Sanders as a host of the Hillary Group when you had the chance. Nay, you joined in on the 'fun'.
 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
42. Or maybe it's because DU is heavily in favor of Sanders. And maybe there's a reason for that.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:15 AM
Oct 2015

Yeah, I know, DU isn't the real world. We're a lot more politically astute.

 

sgtbenobo

(327 posts)
35. maybe it's your canidate...
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 12:40 AM
Oct 2015

...and the nicest grandmother ever.

Who sat by and witnessed nothing. ever.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
44. That has nothing to do with the vitriol of the posts.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:58 AM
Oct 2015

If you don't like that fact that Bernie is more popular then you should talk about why Hillary is a better candidate for the people.

Why should there be an equal amount of posts for/against each candidate? That makes absolutely no sense. The fact of the matter is that there are many times more hit pieces that are just smear mongering being posted about Sanders than about Clinton. So if you are correct in your ratio, that means probably almost every post criticizing Bernie is a smear.

You guys are posting and reccing OPs that are the equivalent of Benghazi pieces, and some that are even worse than that. You know, like the ones that are "Not Enough" and others by that same poster.

The infantile behavior and retorts and complaints is astounding. How about you just deal with policy and facts. The "Issues" forum is open now... why don't you guys use it and figure out something positive to push about your chosen candidate?

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
54. Yes, but....
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 04:59 PM
Oct 2015

....those who are sincere about not hating her do have one flaw. Their lack of a voice when it comes to the hatred that is obvious, and finding that voice at times to defend that which is obvious. Let me add my obligatory "Not All", so those who do not have this flaw have no reason to go on the defensive, or offensive for that matter.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
46. I don't hate her either and I also do not trust her at all.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:06 AM
Oct 2015

She will say what it takes to get elected and then she won't care anymore about how she 'moved' to the left because she saw how people loved Bernie.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
49. My problem with the idea of 'trust' as a standard is that I don't trust any politician.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 04:01 PM
Oct 2015

I'm skeptical of all of them. Trust is for people I know who have earned that trust.

Uncle Joe

(58,107 posts)
50. I agree with that to a point but trust is a requisite in all manner of field, you may never meet
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 04:11 PM
Oct 2015

the airline pilots flying the aircraft that you're in but you must have some level of trust in their capabilities or you would never get on the plane.

Skepticism is fine but that only entails doubt, questioning or uncertainty, when it get to the point of "no trust" this is beyond skepticism.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
52. Politics is not flying a plane. But of course you knew that.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 04:29 PM
Oct 2015

I don't trust them. Why should I?
It should be about reason, not emotion. I don't trust the pilot, I know what systems are in place to train, regulate them. Systems which are fully lacking in politics.

Uncle Joe

(58,107 posts)
53. Politics is a more dangerous activity with far greater repercussions than flying a plane.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 04:40 PM
Oct 2015

Trust is an integral part of reason, and if you don't trust the pilot you do trust the systems in place to train and regulate them.

I agree with your last sentence.

That's the problem with our government it has been sold out to the point that big unregulated money dominates both parties and all three branches.

I believe Bernie and the movement are trying to correct that major malfunction in our political system, but I don't believe that about Hillary.


 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
58. Indeed.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 05:08 PM
Oct 2015

Bernie has stood for the same principles for decades. That leads me to believe that he means exactly what he says. HRH has been on every conceivable side of every major issue. Her chosen associations with vile individuals like Lloyd Blankfein and War Criminal Henry Kissinger are more than enough to disqualify her from ANY elective office, much less the presidency.

Why would anyone trust her?

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